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Hypevosa
17th Jun 2009, 02:25
I wanted to make the suggestion that fall damage also take into account what surface you're landing on, not just how high you fall from. A landing made on grass/sand/leaves/flimsy wood can be made from a little higher than a landing made on stone/marble/metal/hard wood.

jtr7
17th Jun 2009, 02:52
Would be nice.

Hypevosa
17th Jun 2009, 02:54
:D Glad you think so too.

LightWarriorK
17th Jun 2009, 02:58
I think the difference would be negligible, honestly.

Well, Maybe sand would have a lower damage.

But leaves, and grass... you're really landing on the hard ground beneath them. And if flimsy wood doesn't break....well, then it's strong enough to deal full damage.

Falling from a height high enough to deal damage would do damage no matter what the hard surface is, be it wood, stone, tile, or just ground. It's the whole action/reaction bit of physics. Sand or a cushion or something with the mass to absorb the force from an impact by yielding. But anything that hard enough to not absorb the impact would put all the force on your legs.

Jumping off the roof of your home would hurt just as much whether you're jumping onto the lawn or onto a deck or patio.

jtr7
17th Jun 2009, 03:44
Soil gives way, and having jumped down from 6 to 10 feet in my youth, I can attest to the lowered pain of soil over concrete, and rolling across a lawn is child's play compared to pavement. But you are right, the reduction of injury would be one health shield/gem at most, and the greater the height the less it would help.

fayfuya
17th Jun 2009, 03:56
It's a good idea, but the diffirence is so small, i don't think we should really pay attention to it, but if you want to, you can also create this idea in Thief 4, i think that not the damage should be the diffirence, but the height you may jump from to grass or sand or others is diffirent than the height you would jump to metal, wood or stone.

Hypevosa
17th Jun 2009, 04:00
It would only make a difference of a few feet, but that's a large enough distance given that most of the time if I've taken fall damage it's 1-3 shields and not more... yeah, a 30+ foot drop is going to at least break your legs, a between around 15-20 feet it would make a difference. Dirt, sand, wood boards, and gravel have alot more give... what that does is increase the amount of time you're decelerating, meaning that it's putting less energy through your legs. Stone, Marble, and any extremely rigid surface has little give, meaning you decelerate nearly instantaneously, meaning a massive amount of energy is put through your legs.

Force of impact= Mass of object X Velocity of object on impact / time for velocity to reach 0

More give=more time=less force on impact, less give=less time=more force on impact.

For an illustration episode 9 of mythbusters explains (http://www.megavideo.com/?d=UY3RVEF0) (go to 34:30)

a difference of a 10th or even a hundreth of a second can be the difference between a broken bone. But mainly in game this would be the difference of not taking fall damage to taking 5 shields of damage

jtr7
17th Jun 2009, 04:57
And we haven't added in the chance of a twisted ankle.

Has the technology and programming come of age for SNOW? We get a hard white surface with a good sound effect most of the time. It will be a long time before we can sink into it and leave footprints, but... Thick powdery snow would take quite a bit off the impact, and Thief is ripe for a good winter mission.

Hypevosa
17th Jun 2009, 05:45
oh wow that completely skipped my mind... you think he'd break out the altair suit so he could blend in better? XD

Herr_Garrett
17th Jun 2009, 14:30
This has been done in MA, I think. True, the diverse surfaces weren't used too much, but in certain FMs they are, and attest that it was done and is feasible. I don't know if they were specifically modded by the FM authors or have these properties by default, but snow and sand, for instance, hurt much less that cobbles or tiles.

esme
17th Jun 2009, 14:55
a fall from a sufficient height into water should damage if not kill the player

once you reach a certain speed in a fall hitting water is just like hitting concrete

Platinumoxicity
17th Jun 2009, 15:24
a fall from a sufficient height into water should damage if not kill the player

once you reach a certain speed in a fall hitting water is just like hitting concrete

Again one of the examples where excessive realism would make something worse.

Hamadriyad
17th Jun 2009, 16:43
Again one of the examples where excessive realism would make something worse.

Is it excessive?I don't think so.

esme
17th Jun 2009, 17:24
Again one of the examples where excessive realism would make something worse.

but if you are thinking of implementing different damage models for falls onto different surfaces then this is one of the things you should look at

personally I don't think it's worth the effort

fayfuya
17th Jun 2009, 17:40
Lol i got a little idea but i'm not sure of it, if you fall from high places so you should be able to injure for example your lieg, then you would walk slower and with more noise, then you go to "Taffers' Hospital".
I'm not sure of this idea...

jtr7
17th Jun 2009, 17:44
Garrett Denton, quaffing a health potion.

jermi
17th Jun 2009, 17:59
Coming up next: temperature, pressure, humidity, relativistic motion and finally quantum effects?

jtr7
17th Jun 2009, 18:02
The effects of sweat, dehydration, cramping, and peeing in the pool. :o

Hamadriyad
17th Jun 2009, 18:23
No, I don't like that. We have health potions, that's enough.

Hypevosa
17th Jun 2009, 19:50
a fall from a sufficient height into water should damage if not kill the player

once you reach a certain speed in a fall hitting water is just like hitting concrete

You do realize you're talking about an INSANE drop before that actually occurs correct? garrett best not be jumping out of planes, steam powered or not >_>

LightWarriorK
17th Jun 2009, 20:46
Garrett had some good falls into wells and shafts.... but realistically he'd have been hurt more by bouncing off the walls on his way down.:mad2: None of those were high enough to cause fall damage.

I think the only fall into water high enough to do some damage would have been the crevace in The Bonehoard right before you hit the vaults. Come to think of it....there was a Keeper that fell and died in the water there.

jtr7
17th Jun 2009, 20:48
A Keeper? Heh heh. 'Twas the poor taffer Marcus.

Hypevosa
17th Jun 2009, 20:57
yeah stupid thief. I thought he died because he drowned or because he couldn't make his way out of there without having to deal with burricks? A fall that high wouldn't kill you, it wasn't more than 50 feet I don't think... You'd sure notice if you landed wrong though... OUCH....

jtr7
17th Jun 2009, 21:05
Hit his head on the rock wall, methinks, and was able to crawl into a burrick tunnel where he died. His gear and journal are further up in the tunnel than he is. Unless the water level rose, he floated into the tunnel, and the water receded, but that means his pickaxe floated further ahead than he did, or it fell off and he floated back down.

LightWarriorK
18th Jun 2009, 02:46
Ah, yeah, that sounds more like it. It's been a while since I played TDP. I was probably remembering that crevace to be deeper, and confusing those guys in the Bonehoard with the Keeper expedition to the Lost City.

jtr7
18th Jun 2009, 03:17
I figured. There's that long waterfall at the beginning of the Lost City that's deeper than the chasm Marcus fell into. He tried to jump across the chasm and didn't make it, so he likely hit the rocks.

Hypevosa
18th Jun 2009, 05:27
the turbulence in the water is what would keep that drop from hurting you at all (idk if that's high enough either) because it breaks surface tension, which is why if you hit fast enough water's like concrete.

jtr7
18th Jun 2009, 06:01
It really does help to be carried into the water with the falling water. There is no impact, but other issues. You'd have to hope there were no rocks below, no aggressive churning to break free from, and that you could hold your breath long enough to orient yourself and reach the surface.

Hypevosa
22nd Jun 2009, 05:33
yeah, they actually told us when we went white water rafting that if you fell over you could basically get stuck under a rapid in a pocket of rotating water... I thought it'd be a very sucky way to die personally.