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Platinumoxicity
15th Jun 2009, 22:46
When EM starts to get the engine working and the movement and basic gameplay systems, like the interface, weapons, basic AI and other gameplay gimmicks working somehow, should they release a public feedback demo? Like a testroom demo where you could move the character, interact with objects and enemies, try rope arrows ;), pick a lock, climb a ladder, see the interface and some glimpses of graphical features to be included. It wouldn't need to be like the TDS demo with 2 official missions, just a primitive working draft.

There could be an online feedback system where you could choose what features exceeded your expectations which ones you hated. If there is something in particular that you hated about some feature, you could write details about your experience. This way EM can get an idea about what needs to be improved and how or what doesn't have to be changed. No more deadly shadows for us plz. Get it working first, then make it pretty and clever. ;)

As everyone knows, after a dissapointment like TDS, all we need now is gameplay that is somehow better than Thief 2, and they've already exceeded our expectations. :D

jtr7
15th Jun 2009, 22:58
Seeing as how they like to keep things to themselves until they are satisfied it's close to perfect in their eyes, I would be delighted to see something released for fun, and we could keep playing whack-a-taffer with every taffer that can't remember it's a work in progress. I also understand EM wouldn't want to start another s**t storm. :lol:

Even a rough gameplay video with a guy clearly messing around would be cool.

EM needs a video camera and blurry footage of concept sketches on a wall that we can barely make out, just to give us something to decipher. :p

I'd imagine a feedback demo would be what the testing groups would be working from. It would probably be a gigabyte of install, too.

Hypevosa
15th Jun 2009, 23:28
I wouldn't mind a white room where all the things were demo-ed really... I don't need a whole level if you just want my feed back on certain things. I definitely feel though that all of us here on the forums deserve the first dibs. HEAR HEAR!

Hamadriyad
16th Jun 2009, 09:06
It would be great!

jtr7
16th Jun 2009, 09:07
A physics demo! How the world elements work for water and rope arrows, and when the game comes out, we see how all these toys were built into a beautiful City.

esme
16th Jun 2009, 12:26
sort of like the training mission from TDP only showcasing all the features and weapons from the game ?

imagine the screams if swimming and rope arrows were missing from the demo tho

Hypevosa
16th Jun 2009, 12:32
There wouldn't be screams, they'd just find that a few of the developers were getting knocked out and locked in a closet every day...

Aristofiles
16th Jun 2009, 13:04
would be a great thing really. Just a simple 2 room mission that allows the fans to get a feel on the movments, style, equipment and leave thier opinion on it.

Ofcourse that presumes that the developers give a crap about what the fans think and want. If i made a game i would make it exactly how i wanted it and dont listen to anyone:D

kin
16th Jun 2009, 17:22
A test room-level for the game mechanics instead of a full demo mission hmmm. Great idea i will test and test untill i need a new keyboard.
Also it could be released very early so the fans can correct stuff.

Direlord
16th Jun 2009, 17:54
While would be great this is not something i think the devs would make public though. If it was public it would be a press release type thing.

I wouldn't mind them giving us a little beta testing though. Like giving us a hallway or room with various lighting and floor materials to test out the controlls, sound, and graphics. Perhaps some loot to steal and a lock to pick to give feedback on how we'd like the lockpicking system was the loot too easy or hard to find. Perhaps some targets to practice shooting with bow or any throwing as well as any UI feedback.

kin
16th Jun 2009, 18:05
What about the training (like TDP) as a demo?

Direlord
16th Jun 2009, 18:12
If it acts like a true demo which is a marketing tool really than yeah the first tutorial type level would work out nicely. Demos don't come out till pretty much the game has gone gold though.

Platinumoxicity
16th Jun 2009, 18:31
If it acts like a true demo which is a marketing tool really than yeah the first tutorial type level would work out nicely. Demos don't come out till pretty much the game has gone gold though.

The idea of a public feedback tech demo is that the players can test the most basic functions in the game so we don't have to have those ridiculous problems we had in TDS. That game seemed like it was never tested, because although it had many great things, the gameplay had many fundamental flaws that made it suck. This kind of primitive demo could be released fairly early in production in order to fix the issues before release.

Direlord
16th Jun 2009, 19:27
Which would be what i suggested in my first post. it would be nice to have, and do some beta testing with feedback but I also don't see that happening outside of a press release thing.

Myth
16th Jun 2009, 23:42
Sounds good! Just don't make it come with a one-click installer. Make it some hard to use bunch of files that need code placed in a txt. and then renamed to something else, and then some registry edited or something. Why? Because giving access to a tech demo means you want quality feedback. And 12 year olds that stumbled on the demo and jumping "no allow kill? NO LIKEY!" and submitting feedback would spoil the results coming from intelligent, mature gamers.

Hell, to keep it under the covers and unofficial, give it to us and say it was "leaked out" or something. I wouldn't mind :)

Platinumoxicity
17th Jun 2009, 09:01
Sounds good! Just don't make it come with a one-click installer. Make it some hard to use bunch of files that need code placed in a txt. and then renamed to something else, and then some registry edited or something. Why? Because giving access to a tech demo means you want quality feedback. And 12 year olds that stumbled on the demo and jumping "no allow kill? NO LIKEY!" and submitting feedback would spoil the results coming from intelligent, mature gamers.

Hell, to keep it under the covers and unofficial, give it to us and say it was "leaked out" or something. I wouldn't mind :)

Yes, that is a problem. Bu I think It would be hard enough for degenerayte kids to change the "-" in a registry file to a "+" that adds the information to the registry. I only had to do that when I didn't want to go through the trouble of re-installing Assassin's Creed after re-installing my OS. :)

esme
17th Jun 2009, 11:20
Sounds good! Just don't make it come with a one-click installer. Make it some hard to use bunch of files that need code placed in a txt. and then renamed to something else, and then some registry edited or something. Why? Because giving access to a tech demo means you want quality feedback. And 12 year olds that stumbled on the demo and jumping "no allow kill? NO LIKEY!" and submitting feedback would spoil the results coming from intelligent, mature gamers.

Hell, to keep it under the covers and unofficial, give it to us and say it was "leaked out" or something. I wouldn't mind :)

I wasn't thinking of an actual mission with objectives, I was thinking more of a demo area to showcase the toolset, physics and abilities a bit like the training mission from TDP

so assuming the engine supported these there would be things to climb, gaps to jump, water to swim in, arrows of each available type and different types of target to use them on, places to run, crouch and crawl, an AI to practice swordsmanship with, a basketball court, places%

jtr7
17th Jun 2009, 19:24
A playroom full of toys.

Direlord
17th Jun 2009, 19:49
Sounds good! Just don't make it come with a one-click installer. Make it some hard to use bunch of files that need code placed in a txt. and then renamed to something else, and then some registry edited or something. Why? Because giving access to a tech demo means you want quality feedback. And 12 year olds that stumbled on the demo and jumping "no allow kill? NO LIKEY!" and submitting feedback would spoil the results coming from intelligent, mature gamers.

Hell, to keep it under the covers and unofficial, give it to us and say it was "leaked out" or something. I wouldn't mind :)

Don't think you need to go this overboard. Perhaps just make it invite only?

esme
25th Jun 2009, 10:38
A playroom full of toys.

yeah, so you know the game mechanics are solid, then it has to be backed up by top notch writing and mission design, but a simple demo showcasing the toolkit could be released fairly quickly and would go a long way towards reassuring the fan base that the game is going in a direction they approve of

of course it could open a whole can of worms and start a flame ware against Eidos if it doesn't seem to be heading in the right direction but it would be at an early enough stage in the game to allow for a rethink without costing Eidos too much money

Platinumoxicity
25th Jun 2009, 11:11
They wouldn't even need to make any good models or textures, just some basic human figures to demonstrate how well the game plays. If the movement is even slightly worse than TDP, which by the way was made over 10 years ago, they have failed and they should try again. Realistic head movement, fluid transition animations of body positions are not the point. I can point out some first person games where the player movement in every situation is absolutely perfect:

Doom (1993) - No Y-axis screen movement but not needed back then.
Quake (1996) - Only thing that's missing is getting over obstacles.
Half-Life (1998) - Fixed Quake's problem by adding crouch-jump. 100% perfect controls.

The controls in Thief: The Dark Project did need some time to get used to but most of the experienced players don't have any problems with the movement. If the controls and movements in the T4 Tech Demo are as good as the ones in TDP, but without the bugs, you have succeeded at making better controls than in 1998 FPS game. And it's enough.

TDS failed at this. In the year 2003, they couldn't make controls that were even equivalent to the ones in 1998. Kinda makes you want to "facepalm" a little.