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Flashart
15th Jun 2009, 11:02
I wonder if it's time to draw up what might be termed a consensus about T4.
I've been going through the threads and some points stand out as the majority view.
I thought I'd deliver it in a movie style "pitch"

"Stephen Russell returns as Garrett in Thief IV. This ultimate stealth game takes it's game play mechanics (dna) from T2. It contains very large ultra explorable "sandbox" levels, which feature a mix of traditional missions and scary missions (like "Cradle", and mystical (like "Constantine's") There are more "rooftops" featured than ever before as even more of the city is laid bare for exploration This very atmospheric game features high quality music and atmosphere like TDS, both in game and in the traditional cut-scenes and briefings. Oh, and this time there will be rope arrows (and an editor)."

I must make clear this is not my opinion, just my reading of the threads. Obviously, there's a lot of issues that people are still discussing (weapons, plot, characters etc) I predict everyone will have some disappointment regarding their wishlist. But I felt if we could agree on what we all want (or are broadly willing to accept) in very "broadbrush" terms, then it may help the devs at least decide on a path forward.

(I realize this thread will eventually descend into "I want this, I want that..". What I'm trying to get at is a definition for what we call "Thief IV".

Platinumoxicity
15th Jun 2009, 11:10
Word.

Actually "Words". MY words exactly. And probably the words of the many rationable people here, excluding those who in addition to all this also say: whaddabout thegirl?
That is the junction where their thoughts turn the wrong way when they should just stop there.

Hypevosa
15th Jun 2009, 11:12
you forgot that there will be horses and domesticated animals... XD

jay pettitt
15th Jun 2009, 13:33
...and options...

Hypevosa
15th Jun 2009, 13:36
oh, and really good loot textures... imagine, loot that looks looty!

InGroove2
15th Jun 2009, 14:25
Word.

Actually "Words". MY words exactly. And probably the words of the many rationable people here, excluding those who in addition to all this also say: whaddabout thegirl?
That is the junction where their thoughts turn the wrong way when they should just stop there.

after the long and diplomatic convo we had a week or so ago, you're gonna go ahead and say something jerky like that?

WEAK! it takes only a narrow and weak sense of creativity to think that you KNOW that incorporating "the girl" is, without a fraction of a sliver of a doubt, a 'bad" idea... preceeded by, not suprisingly, a claim that the OP's words are, in fact, YOURS.

say good bye to your credibility.

it's easy to understand that the only way to true innovation, towards an exciting development, as evidenced throughout history, is to rule NOTHING out. so why don't you?

if EM truly understands thief, they could incorporated anything they wanted, from the girl, to super mario brothers....

Flashart
15th Jun 2009, 14:52
Before this turns into a slanging match...

EM will decide everything to do with the details, I thought if we could lay differences aside, and come up with an overall view, which may not suit everyone, but is broadly agreeable, then it gives EM a "framework" to work within.
There's many suggestions I've made that people hate and vice versa, but I'm willing to accept the "majority" view, and that, that view was given with the prime goal of making the best T4 possible.

Platinumoxicity
15th Jun 2009, 14:53
after the long and diplomatic convo we had a week or so ago, you're gonna go ahead and say something jerky like that?

WEAK! it takes only a narrow and weak sense of creativity to think that you KNOW that incorporating "the girl" is, without a fraction of a sliver of a doubt, a 'bad" idea... preceeded by, not suprisingly, a claim that the OP's words are, in fact, YOURS.

say good bye to your credibility.

it's easy to understand that the only way to true innovation, towards an exciting development, as evidenced throughout history, is to rule NOTHING out. so why don't you?

if EM truly understands thief, they could incorporated anything they wanted, from the girl, to super mario brothers....

I never claimed to have any credibility. This is the internets. And why, why on earth would you make a strawman out of that figure of speech I used there? Your mind has to be extremely twisted to want to turn anything that someone has said against them, no matter how impossible it would seem. Are you a robot or something? Don't you know what "word" means?

huzi73
15th Jun 2009, 15:23
I never claimed to have any credibility. This is the internets. And why, why on earth would you make a strawman out of that figure of speech I used there? Your mind has to be extremely twisted to want to turn anything that someone has said against them, no matter how impossible it would seem. Are you a robot or something? Don't you know what "word" means?

I nodded my head violently as I agreed with you.

Dear InGroove 2: please do not try to encourage EM to include Mario or Luigi in my THI4F game.I like the little creepy long haired maroon dress girl from F.E.A.R.

But thats as far as it goes. I would hate to have a baloon bottomed sexy Garrettina wearing a low cut latex boob tube. Oh yes, I forgot, maybe give her a magical outfit, which automatically turns her tight ass hugging leather pants into a G-string the second she dives into water.

Ok, im taking this a bit too far. But you get my point. I have nothing against women, but ultimately, I just cant bear the thought of losing Garrett because the "industry has grown up" pfft!

I mean not just anything can be put into the game JUST because the devs have the right focus.If you want that, thats fine, but not me/us. I/We want a Thief game that has no new magical abilities, protagonists, setting etc. Just plain, pure, undiluted, non cliche, non gimmicky, Thief. Nothing more, nothing less.

I hope you understand...

kaekaelyn
15th Jun 2009, 15:33
You don't have to add that you "have nothing against women" after describing an extremely sexualized lust object for a protagonist. Women would hate something like that more than anyone, because (most) women do not wish to be identified with a character like that. Trust me, I know this because I am one.

Platinumoxicity
15th Jun 2009, 15:36
I nodded my head violently as I agreed with you.

Dear InGroove 2: please do not try to encourage EM to include Mario or Luigi in my THI4F game.I like the little creepy long haired maroon dress girl from F.E.A.R.

But thats as far as it goes. I would hate to have a baloon bottomed sexy Garrettina wearing a low cut latex boob tube. Oh yes, I forgot, maybe give her a magical outfit, which automatically turns her tight ass hugging leather pants into a G-string the second she dives into water.

Ok, im taking this a bit too far. But you get my point. I have nothing against women, but ultimately, I just cant bear the thought of losing Garrett because the "industry has grown up" pfft!

I mean not just anything can be put into the game JUST because the devs have the right focus.If you want that, thats fine, but not me/us. I/We want a Thief game that has no new magical abilities, protagonists, setting etc. Just plain, pure, undiluted, non cliche, non gimmicky, Thief. Nothing more, nothing less.

I hope you understand...

Adding to that, since InGroove2 is probably thinking about saying... "Why don't you just keep playing Thief 1 then?!!1!" The reason why some of us want a new Thief game to be more like the originals is because that was what we expected TDS to be, but we were dissapointed. We want our game back. And better.

Hamadriyad
15th Jun 2009, 15:46
But thats as far as it goes. I would hate to have a baloon bottomed sexy Garrettina wearing a low cut latex boob tube. Oh yes, I forgot, maybe give her a magical outfit, which automatically turns her tight ass hugging leather pants into a G-string the second she dives into water.


I hope you understand...

I want Garrett too. But If will be a female protagonist. she doesn't have to be that way. Do you really think all women looks like that?

Aristofiles
15th Jun 2009, 16:01
I would like...

1. Quality levels. I rather see perfect intresting huge missions than a lame poorly done sandbox world (havent played a game with a working sandbox to date)

2. Quality storyline

3. Garrett beeing a thief, not a assasin, not a acrobat, not a climbing mouse. Just a ordinary man who is good at sticking to the shadows.

4. First person view

InGroove2
15th Jun 2009, 16:12
I nodded my head violently as I agreed with you.

Dear InGroove 2: please do not try to encourage EM to include Mario or Luigi in my THI4F game.I like the little creepy long haired maroon dress girl from F.E.A.R.

But thats as far as it goes. I would hate to have a baloon bottomed sexy Garrettina wearing a low cut latex boob tube. Oh yes, I forgot, maybe give her a magical outfit, which automatically turns her tight ass hugging leather pants into a G-string the second she dives into water.

Ok, im taking this a bit too far. But you get my point. I have nothing against women, but ultimately, I just cant bear the thought of losing Garrett because the "industry has grown up" pfft!

I mean not just anything can be put into the game JUST because the devs have the right focus.If you want that, thats fine, but not me/us. I/We want a Thief game that has no new magical abilities, protagonists, setting etc. Just plain, pure, undiluted, non cliche, non gimmicky, Thief. Nothing more, nothing less.

I hope you understand...

i do understand. but it should be implicit in what i said that if they truly understood the games, mario would obviously not be included. i was exaggerating, sure... unreasonably... for effect... and to highlight the point, which is just that, the specifics of "the girl or not" or' "rope arrows or not", are secondary to how well EM understands the game... yes, T1 and T2 = "the game".

Hamadriyad
15th Jun 2009, 16:14
QUOTEI would like...

1. Quality levels. I rather see perfect intresting huge missions than a lame poorly done sandbox world (havent played a game with a working sandbox to date)

2. Quality storyline

3. Garrett beeing a thief, not a assasin, not a acrobat, not a climbing mouse. Just a ordinary man who is good at sticking to the shadows.

4. First person viewQUOTE

I agree with you. But, Garrett is not ordinary.

ToMegaTherion
15th Jun 2009, 16:19
Actually there is nothing in the original post that requires Garrett to be the protagonist, and I think there is consensus that Garrett should appear in the game, so there's no problem here.

There is clearly no consensus as yet between the Garrett fanatics and those who don't really care as long as the story works.

InGroove2
15th Jun 2009, 16:21
I never claimed to have any credibility. This is the internets. And why, why on earth would you make a strawman out of that figure of speech I used there? Your mind has to be extremely twisted to want to turn anything that someone has said against them, no matter how impossible it would seem. Are you a robot or something? Don't you know what "word" means?

not twisted. it was easy, you made a figure of speech, all i had to do was act as if you meant it literally. it was totally easy.

i would, on earth, make that strawman, because you made a polarizing statement... simple defense is all the motivation needed... in the spirit of fun and competition.



Adding to that, since InGroove2 is probably thinking about saying... "Why don't you just keep playing Thief 1 then?!!1!" The reason why some of us want a new Thief game to be more like the originals is because that was what we expected TDS to be, but we were dissapointed. We want our game back. And better.


i can see, based on your method of logic in the past, that THIS IS what you THOUGH i would be thinking. but it's not. no even close.

not to mention that "because you expected TDS to be more like the originals" is not a viable reason why you want T4 to be... cause then you'd have to explain why TDS should have been more like the originals and thn try and win the argument that it was THAT far off the mark, which is a matter of perspective.... and compeltely unproveable.
it's the same repetative slippery slope that everything here goes down. "progress vs tride-n-true."
you may have been dissapointed. but "we want our game back"? you HAVE your game.

Hareton
15th Jun 2009, 16:29
The wishlist doesn't need more points than one: no console release. If it will be released only on PC, automatically game will be good enough.

Girl protagonist is retarded idea, let's keep game world's cohesion: in middle-ages women weren't professional criminals.

ToMegaTherion
15th Jun 2009, 16:32
Some woman-haters ought to learn that "women generally weren't thieves in history" doesn't mean that "all thieves in a fantasy setting must be men".

AbysmalGale
15th Jun 2009, 16:40
I wonder if it's time to draw up what might be termed a consensus about T4.
I've been going through the threads and some points stand out as the majority view.
I thought I'd deliver it in a movie style "pitch"

"Stephen Russell returns as Garrett in Thief IV. This ultimate stealth game takes it's game play mechanics (dna) from T2. It contains very large ultra explorable "sandbox" levels, which feature a mix of traditional missions and scary missions (like "Cradle", and mystical (like "Constantine's") There are more "rooftops" featured than ever before as even more of the city is laid bare for exploration This very atmospheric game features high quality music and atmosphere like TDS, both in game and in the traditional cut-scenes and briefings. Oh, and this time there will be rope arrows (and an editor)."

I must make clear this is not my opinion, just my reading of the threads. Obviously, there's a lot of issues that people are still discussing (weapons, plot, characters etc) I predict everyone will have some disappointment regarding their wishlist. But I felt if we could agree on what we all want (or are broadly willing to accept) in very "broadbrush" terms, then it may help the devs at least decide on a path forward.

(I realize this thread will eventually descend into "I want this, I want that..". What I'm trying to get at is a definition for what we call "Thief IV".

I really really liked this description of T4 :) Good job Flashart! The only thing I had a hard time with was "music and atmosphere like TDS". The only mission in TDS where I felt the real Thief atmosphere was in House of Widow Moira. But as you said, it's hard to please everyone ;)

Also, about the music. I liked the fact that T1 and T2 didn't have constant music playing all way through, but rather short mystical sounds here and there and sometimes shorter musical pieces. I also loved the ambient sounds, especially in Trail of Blood.

But then again, not everyone can be 100% pleased. All in all I loved your description of T4. If it will be like that, I won't complain!

Hareton
15th Jun 2009, 16:42
Some internet white knights wanting to spoil game's athmosphere should wait till game release, and then make mod changing main character to female, along with anime&furry mods if they wish.

Seriously - good and ambitious fantasy settings like Middle-earth, Hyboria and Thief's The City have realistic and reasonable world design, without too many women heroines.

PS. poiting the fact that women weren't criminals in the past is women hating? God, I hate feminists.

ToMegaTherion
15th Jun 2009, 16:44
Once again: there is a difference between too many and none :)

Hamadriyad
15th Jun 2009, 16:47
Actually there is nothing in the original post that requires Garrett to be the protagonist, and I think there is consensus that Garrett should appear in the game, so there's no problem here.

There is clearly no consensus as yet between the Garrett fanatics and those who don't really care as long as the story works.
Yes, there is nothing. But post said: I hate woman protagonists because they looks like that.
And this is ridiculous

Hamadriyad
15th Jun 2009, 16:49
Girl protagonist is retarded idea, let's keep game world's cohesion: in middle-ages women weren't professional criminals.

How do you know that?Even If so, this is Thief universe, not really middle-age.

ToMegaTherion
15th Jun 2009, 16:50
I have some time for the argument "I don't want a lady thief because I don't trust the designers not to make her look like a hooker", but that indeed isn't a statement against a lady thief, it's a statement against the competence of the designers.

kaekaelyn
15th Jun 2009, 16:59
There's nothing wrong with a woman protagonist per se. I don't trust any gaming company to make a non-sexualized female main character, however. It's sad that I would have to ask for them to make a female character with a small bust, because big boobs should not equal foxy harlot eye candy. A woman's body type shouldn't make her an object, since many different women have many different body types, but sadly, in the gaming world, it certainly does.

This, as I've pointed out many times before, is my greatest fear in a Thief game. I'm afraid they'll be more than happy to serve up a delicious little tart of a protagonist to drooling, hormone-crazed teenage boys. And as I've already said, in this case I will not buy the game.

Garrett's #1 in my book, anyway. I have more faith that they could write Garrett into the story well than that they could incorporate a female protagonist that is anything more than gaming porn.

Platinumoxicity
15th Jun 2009, 17:00
not twisted. It was easy, you made a figure of speech, all i had to do was act as if you meant it literally. It was totally easy.

I would, on earth, make that strawman, because you made a polarizing statement... Simple defense is all the motivation needed... In the spirit of fun and competition.

:D would have sufficed. :)

ToMegaTherion
15th Jun 2009, 17:01
Also it would increase the probability of a 3rd person camera, and we don't want that :p

Platinumoxicity
15th Jun 2009, 17:19
There is nothing wrong with female protagonists in the right context or in the right game.

-Changing the protagonist to a different gender in order to get more audience is wrong (And in Thief's case utter stupidity of the devs)
-Changing the protagonist to a different gender because original voice actor is unavailabe has the same excuse as the latter and doesn't really make sense.
-Changing the protagonist to a different gender because playing one gender gets boring is only good for games that don't have continuing story. (for example GTA, hello? We had our whites, blacks and Europeans, where are the females?)
-Changing the protagonist to a different gender in a game that is defined by it's main character is the mistake that makes companies go bankrupt:
Garrette, Miss 47 (also bald), Larry Croft (with man-boobs), Georgia Freeman (bad example but anyway), Dana Nukem, Maria Payne, Samuel Aran (Ugh... Skin tight zero-suit. Balls hurt.)

jtr7
15th Jun 2009, 17:28
FLASHART: It may be best to just send your "consensus" to René in a PM, as he's suggested. Same goes for anybody who wants to attempt to summarize what's being discussed, since there are inaccuracies, personal bias, and gaping holes, and a thread is just going to go haywire.

ToMegaTherion
15th Jun 2009, 17:29
Whether or not to change the protagonist in Thief is the debate to be having. If they're going to change the protagonist then the girl from the Deadly Shadows ending is as good an option as anything else.

jtr7
15th Jun 2009, 17:34
There're a few threads about it already, and as you can see there are multiple threads each about many debatable topics.


I'm less worried about what we say here, than what the test-groups are going to say when the game is in the finishing stages.

Herr_Garrett
15th Jun 2009, 17:58
Girl protagonist is retarded idea, let's keep game world's cohesion: in middle-ages women weren't professional criminals.

You couldn't be more wrong. Just read a bit.

This does not mean, however, that I support the idea of a girl being Thief IV's protagonist. And no, I'm not misogynic. It simply doesn't fit. I'm not saying I didn't like T2X, but, come on, that's not Thief. It's an FM-campaign. Give me a female thief any time of the day, but not instead of Garrett.

ToMegaTherion
15th Jun 2009, 18:04
It'd come across better if people didn't say "I don't want a girl in Thief" but "I only want Garrett in Thief".

Flashart
15th Jun 2009, 19:00
And here is the problem.
50% of people want Garrett, 50% want someone/anyone else.
50% want new weapons, 50% want T2 weapons
50% want prequel, 50% want sequel.....etc....etc

If you were from EM reading these posts "WHAT THE HELL WOULD YOU DO?" you can't please everyone, and in trying to, you'll end up pleasing no-one.
As I said before, it will be impossible for all wishes to be granted, please, accept that as a fact.
What I'm trying to get at is the stuff, however vague, however "broad brush", that while you may not agree 100% with but you can go along with the majority view. I deliberately avoided "the story" in my opening post because no clear consensus is forthcoming (and I suspect never will)
Here's an example, I reckon, judging by the relevant thread that "lockpicking ala TDS, but with randomized tumblers" is the very slight majority view, I didn't include it in my description because I knew a significant number would complain, and have every right to. So eventually EM will have to make a judgement call about that (probably). I just thought that it might be nice to show that, however fractious, we are in some way, pulling in the same direction.

Myth
15th Jun 2009, 20:35
Only Garrett as the protagonist, voiced only by Stephen Russell. No GTA/Assassin's Creed/RPG elements implemented, retarded ass slow motions, headshots, magic items, upgrades, skill systems, mana, loan sharks and other crap like that. Thief as it was - the dark, damp and uncaring City, Garrett alone, crouched on a rooftop and a noblewoman snorting below, with her bedroom window open.

Nate
15th Jun 2009, 23:51
I would like...

1. Quality levels. I rather see perfect intresting huge missions than a lame poorly done sandbox world (havent played a game with a working sandbox to date)

2. Quality storyline

3. Garrett beeing a thief, not a assasin, not a acrobat, not a climbing mouse. Just a ordinary man who is good at sticking to the shadows.

4. First person view

Agreed! The only thing I would add to that wishlist are:

1. Amazing AI: Guards will react to events in an intelligent way (for example sound the alarm and get reinforcements)....none of this 30 seconds searching and giving up as if nothing happened!

*Sounding the alarm should mean something = city guards show up and flood the place with reinforcements!

2. A Carry Capacity Difficulty setting should be added to the game: Easy mode allows players to carry a ton of arrows and items, while Expert mode limits players to 12 arrows and 1-2 items total.


And here is the problem.
50% of people want Garrett, 50% want someone/anyone else.
50% want new weapons, 50% want T2 weapons
50% want prequel, 50% want sequel.....etc....etc

If you were from EM reading these posts "WHAT THE HELL WOULD YOU DO?" you can't please everyone, and in trying to, you'll end up pleasing no-one.
As I said before, it will be impossible for all wishes to be granted, please, accept that as a fact.
What I'm trying to get at is the stuff, however vague, however "broad brush", that while you may not agree 100% with but you can go along with the majority view. I deliberately avoided "the story" in my opening post because no clear consensus is forthcoming (and I suspect never will)
Here's an example, I reckon, judging by the relevant thread that "lockpicking ala TDS, but with randomized tumblers" is the very slight majority view, I didn't include it in my description because I knew a significant number would complain, and have every right to. So eventually EM will have to make a judgement call about that (probably). I just thought that it might be nice to show that, however fractious, we are in some way, pulling in the same direction.

Some debates already have clear majorities. These include:

1. First Person Only View: This is a clear majority...although there is legitimate pressure for options to help reduce motion sickness for sensitive players.

2. More time spent developing missions versus more time spent developing City Hub: The majority of voters on this issue wanted the devs to put more time on the missions than a City Hub.

3. Rope Arrow versus Climbing Gloves: Rope Arrow kicks Climbing Glove bumb!

4. Short Sword versus Dagger: Short Sword (with T1&2 type fencing) has more votes than the dagger....although there is an idea to use a dagger as a tool in some situations.

5. Loot/Arrow/Item carry over from mission to mission: So far, it looks like the majority want NO CARRY OVER....OR ONLY LOOT CARRY OVER

That is about it off the top of my head for clear majority opinions.

Blue Sky
16th Jun 2009, 00:09
There's nothing wrong with a woman protagonist per se. I don't trust any gaming company to make a non-sexualized female main character, however.

[...]

Garrett's #1 in my book, anyway. I have more faith that they could write Garrett into the story well than that they could incorporate a female protagonist that is anything more than gaming porn.

I can't wait for you to see the new look muscley speedo wearing Garrett. Is that a blackjack in his pocket or is he just really pleased to see Bafford spreadeagled invitingly on the bed?!

Nate
16th Jun 2009, 00:19
.....I don't know how to respond!

Hypevosa
16th Jun 2009, 00:50
A sexualized Garrett...

*stephen russell's voice, Garrett is looking at the lord's daughter inviting him into bed* "Well... it looks like I'll be stealing more than just the valuables tonight"

Vae
16th Jun 2009, 02:08
A sexualized Garrett...

*stephen russell's voice, Garrett is looking at the lord's daughter inviting him into bed* "Well... it looks like I'll be stealing more than just the valuables tonight"

You would then need to select the "c.ock and balls" icon in the inventory, highlight her and right click. ;)

Thieffanman
16th Jun 2009, 03:30
What I'm trying to get at is a definition for what we call "Thief IV".

Contact Eidos. I'm sure they'll give you a very succinct definition when the game is ready :).

Unfortunately, your attempt at summarizing appears to be, at best, a vague definition of what the "majority" wants.

Frankly, I'd be interested in seeing if Eidos takes the game in new directions that no one thought of. Consider the differences between the original "Half Life" game and "Half Life 2" for example: Gordon Freeman left the confines Black Mesa (and his short trip to Xen) from Half Life and went into several different settings in Half-Life 2: City 17, Ravenholm, Highway 17, Nova Prospekt, and the Combine's *giant* base. And even then, I think I'm missing some places :).

I'm aware that "Thief" and "Half Life" are completely different, but what I'm getting at is this: My challenge to Eidos is, *surprise us*. Blow our expectations out of the water. Take the game somewhere it hasn't been, rather than attempting to recapture the glory of the old Thief games.

--Thieffanman

jtr7
16th Jun 2009, 03:34
As long as they keep the fundamentals they can go far more places with it than people bother to imagine!

Hypevosa
16th Jun 2009, 03:38
I think it's far too early to give a summary of everything, especially since so many issues are still being discussed. What they should do, is right as they get into actually making the game, and deciding things, they should send us all a Yes/No questionaire on issues that are up in the air. They can even link to appropriate discussions for those who haven't done any reading or thinking on the issues.

Thieffanman
16th Jun 2009, 03:42
As long as they keep the fundamentals they can go far more places with it than people bother to imagine!

Amen to that :).

--Theiffanman

Flashart
16th Jun 2009, 08:32
Well I was assuming by now EM would have wanted to come up with their own broad outlines, and hoped we could get some kind of consensus here. I didn't use use any of the "poll results" as I assumed most are still going but I agree trends are beginning to appear, also most deal with "specifics", although I take the point on better Guard AI.
I'm guessing a lot of stuff gets figured out very early on as it gives the devs time to focus rather than just wasting time trying stuff.
I'd also suggest that if most of us can at least agree on a basic outline it goes someway to preserve the "Thief Core Aspects" that get mentioned so often, and people felt went missing in TDS.

ToMegaTherion
16th Jun 2009, 08:58
I think it's worth noting that consensus and majority aren't the same thing. The flashbomb poll has occasionally had a majority in favour of one of the options, but it's quite clear that there is no consensus.

It's also worth noting that we are but a few fanatics and, though we might make a fuss to try to get our preferences into Thief 4, it's wrong to suggest that if most of us here vote for a certain option, that's the way that most people want it. It's just the way that a tiny minority want it, and we don't know about everyone else. Listening to the ultra fans can sometimes be a good idea but sometimes we just have to be ignored.

jay pettitt
16th Jun 2009, 09:17
I'd have thought that, if anything, consensus was notable by its absence.

And while I have some ideas about what I think might be exciting for Thi4f, I have no idea if my dream game would be the thing of beauty and joy I might like to think it is, or if my ideas are the ill-considered and unskilled notions of someone who doesn't actually know a whole lot about what makes games enjoyable, even if I enjoy them from time to time. I'm all but certain that, if EM referred to these forums as the design document for Thi4f then the results would be spectacular - but in completely the wrong way.

What Thieffanman says: Be bold Eidos Montreal and surprise me.

--oh and what ToMegaTherion said while I was typing (slowly) too.

ToMegaTherion
16th Jun 2009, 09:19
Some company should make a game by Forum Opinion one day, just to demonstrate what a bad idea it would be.

Hypevosa
16th Jun 2009, 09:34
The investors would probably deny you funding.

ToMegaTherion
16th Jun 2009, 09:45
They could maybe be placated by saying "sure, you'll lose money on this game, but it'll allow you to justify ignoring fanboys for ever more, isn't that worth it?"

Flashart
16th Jun 2009, 10:58
I agree with all the above comments, but a "third-person shooter set in outerspace" could be described as "being bold", yet it ignores the consensus or majority opinion.
Compromises are going to be made on all sides, this is my final attempt.

"Stephen Russell returns as the sword and bow wielding Garrett in Thief IV. This ultimate first-person stealth game takes it's game play mechanics (dna) from T2. It contains very large ultra explorable "sandbox" levels, which feature a mix of traditional missions and scary missions (like "Cradle", and mystical (like "Constantine's") There are more "rooftops" featured than ever before as even more of the city is laid bare for exploration, all the time avoiding the improved AI of the guards etc This very atmospheric game features high quality music and atmosphere like TDS, both in game and in the traditional cut-scenes and briefings. Oh, and this time there will be rope arrows, no loot glint, (and an editor)."

Platinumoxicity
16th Jun 2009, 11:40
I agree with all the above comments, but a "third-person shooter set in outerspace" could be described as "being bold", yet it ignores the consensus or majority opinion.
Compromises are going to be made on all sides, this is my final attempt.

"Stephen Russell returns as the sword and bow wielding Garrett in Thief IV. This ultimate first-person stealth game takes it's game play mechanics (dna) from T2. It contains very large ultra explorable "sandbox" levels, which feature a mix of traditional missions and scary missions (like "Cradle", and mystical (like "Constantine's") There are more "rooftops" featured than ever before as even more of the city is laid bare for exploration, all the time avoiding the improved AI of the guards etc This very atmospheric game features high quality music and atmosphere like TDS, both in game and in the traditional cut-scenes and briefings. Oh, and this time there will be rope arrows, no loot glint, (and an editor)."

That's basically it, yes.

esme
16th Jun 2009, 11:42
don't forget flooded sewers, rivers and other underwater areas requiring swimming to reach objective and hidden areas

Thieffanman
16th Jun 2009, 23:49
I agree with all the above comments, but a "third-person shooter set in outerspace" could be described as "being bold", yet it ignores the consensus or majority opinion.

You're confusing 'being bold' with being ridiculous :). My challenge to Eidos is to take the game in new directions; not change it completely. "Third person shooter set in outer space"? C'mon. :lol:

--Thieffanman

esme
16th Jun 2009, 23:58
....after consuming a strange glowing shroom Garrett wakes to find he is an investment banker in London 2009 just before the G20 summit, using all his stealth and cunning he must make it to his 4x4 on the upper level of the car park over the road then drive to knightsbridge in time for his wifes pilates class without being spotted and lynched by the angry mob in the streets below or killing any of them, if he can asset strip the pensions of five protesters on the way then his wife will have his toast cut into soldiers to dip in his egg at breakfast time...

I suggest this is not a direction to take the game in

Nate
17th Jun 2009, 00:36
Well, it would be ORIGINAL....nobody would have seen that coming....except for you, of course!

Crypto
17th Jun 2009, 02:22
rationable people

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

DarthEnder
17th Jun 2009, 04:00
So, long story short, no, there is no consensus here on the forums.

jtr7
17th Jun 2009, 04:23
The divisions remain as strong as ever, with new myths and rumormongering and superficiality ruining any chance of a consensus.

ToMegaTherion
17th Jun 2009, 08:20
Not to mention the smug condescension dripping from every wall.

Platinumoxicity
17th Jun 2009, 08:46
:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

I rest my case. :rolleyes:

huzi73
17th Jun 2009, 11:48
This very atmospheric game features high quality music and atmosphere like TDS

That means only one thing:

ERIC BROSIUS!!!:cool:

Thieffanman
17th Jun 2009, 17:13
That means only one thing:

ERIC BROSIUS!!!:cool:

Oh yes. If there is one thing I can agree on, it's bringing back Eric Brosius :).

--Thieffanman

Flashart
2nd Aug 2009, 18:55
Are we any further forward? Please tell me......