PDA

View Full Version : Disguises?



Thieffanman
10th Jun 2009, 06:24
So, someone mentioned possible daylight missions for T4. It has its merits, but it also has its problems: specifically, a thief's main advantage is keeping well hidden. In the daylight, obviously, Garrett would be more exposed than creeping around at night.

If --and I mean a big *if*-- the character of Garrett was to perform some kind of task in T4 that required him to walk around in daylight, or perhaps attend a well-populated social function like, say, a ball or masquerade, would the ability to have a disguise work as an in-game tool?

Using Assassin's Creed as a model, Altair's main method of entering and exiting a town was his ability to blend in with the holy men who walked through the gates (if you want more detail, play the game :)). Likewise, after killing a mark, he blended in with townspeople or found a small crowd where he could blend in.

(Yes, I'm aware that "Thief" and "Assassin's Creed" are two different games, however, for the moment they are the most similar in terms of a protagonist whose main function is stealth and anonymity. If you have a better example, feel free to share it. :))

Pros of a disguise:
The ability to temporarily move about undetected a little more freely. I'm sure there will be places in the game that *no one*, not even a disguised Garrett, could go-- and that's where stealth and thieving would come into play. Plus, it's been done before in Thief, particularly in TDP when Garrett enters a Hammerite temple in disguise. Also, it does not have to be a constant aspect of the game-- maybe for only a mission or two.

Cons of a disguise:
Well, it removes a large portion of the 'stealth' aspect of the game, even if it is temporary. And stealth is what makes the "Thief" games worth playing :).

Thoughts on this?

--Thieffanman

Hypevosa
10th Jun 2009, 06:27
A temporary disguise I don't like the idea of. What exactly does he do, wear a rubber mask and a contact to cover up his mechanical eye? it seems kinda out there to me. In the first game there's the mission where you're disguised as a hammer acolyte, and I like the idea of "no body will suspect you until you **** things over". But disguises outside of set story scenarios just seem... off to me.

and like you said, it removes the key element to the game of stealth.

jtr7
10th Jun 2009, 06:36
Well, in the older games, the mission would start with Garrett outside the location he was going to infiltrate, ready to go. What he did during his travels is unknown, but not a problem. Perhaps his cloak is enough to make him blend in or look nondescript, since he's not the only person to wear one (Keepers excluded). But I'm more interested in another Undercover-type mission, where he does don an outfit, but it needs to make sense, and not make Garrett a master of disguise. One mission would suffice, and tie-in potentially well to the trilogy. The Hammerite rules were written to make it possible--no talking. Since he wasn't expected to interact, he only roused suspicion when arming himself or entering forbidden areas, but only his face could give him away.

Alex50
10th Jun 2009, 08:59
Always it would be desirable to see city in day time light. But the masking Altair's is unnatural, as it is possible to disappear in crowd of the unarmed monks, having swords on a belt and back.
System Velvet Assassin here is better. There on the well covered places there was an opportunity надеть the form of the officer SS. But it gives the penalty to speed, steal, it was impossible to creep imperceptibly to the opponent. The guard could expose masking, if was beside or the main heroine made suspicious actions (took and applied the weapon)
For Garrett it is possible to use idea of a raincoat (this theme occurred on a forum)

Shadow Blade
10th Jun 2009, 14:14
Well, in the older games, the mission would start with Garrett outside the location he was going to infiltrate, ready to go. What he did during his travels is unknown, but not a problem. Perhaps his cloak is enough to make him blend in or look nondescript, since he's not the only person to wear one (Keepers excluded). But I'm more interested in another Undercover-type mission, where he does don an outfit, but it needs to make sense, and not make Garrett a master of disguise. One mission would suffice, and tie-in potentially well to the trilogy. The Hammerite rules were written to make it possible--no talking. Since he wasn't expected to interact, he only roused suspicion when arming himself or entering forbidden areas, but only his face could give him away.

In TDS there are posters of Garrett all over the city so I would expect that a disguise for Garrett would be particularly difficult and not to mention the attention Garretts mechanical eye bring to himself

Thieffanman
10th Jun 2009, 15:09
Re: Hiding a mechanical eye-- This was mentioned twice, so: *If* disguises were used in T4, hiding a mechanical eye would require . . .

An eye patch! Problem solved :). However, this would also temporarily restrict using the features that the mechanical eye allows.

Granted, if there were disguises, I can only guess that it would be a more involved process that just slipping on a rubber mask or a fake mustache; maybe a stage makeup kit of some kind.

--Thieffanman

P.S. Re: Eye patch-- The line for "Garrett the Pirate" jokes forms under this post :).

Platinumoxicity
10th Jun 2009, 15:42
I thought of this: Garrett has to infiltrate a nightclub owned by the local criminal underground and steal something that they've acquired in their last heist, but there's a costume party going on and Garrett has to get a mask to enter the club. Almost like Thieves' guild 2.0 except without the sewer maze.

LightWarriorK
10th Jun 2009, 15:52
I actually think disguises would be a great idea.


In the first game there's the mission where you're disguised as a hammer acolyte, and I like the idea of "no body will suspect you until you **** things over".

Correct, and that worked for that particular mission, but Garrett is much more famous now, and any guard worth their salt knows what to look for.

I would say that disguises should not be a "free ticket," but more of a suspicion-alayer. If you're wearing Hammerite robes in a crowd of Hammers, you're not going to attract attention as much as if you were wearing your normal clothes. The same goes for any faction. The instant "Who the heck is that??" reaction by guards would be tempered by "he's supposed to be here."

Of course, disguises shouldn't hold up on inspection. That's realism. The moment a guard (who should typically know everyone they're working with) sees that s/he doesn't know you, then boom, you're busted. This would mean that while you might not have to worry about making a sound or being glimpsed, if you make too much noise (like running down a hall), have your weapon drawn for no reason that the guards can see (putting out a torch), or spend far too much time "away from your post" or "off the patrol route," then you risk someone taking a closer look at you.

Of course, the effectiveness of disguises would have to be balanced by a good AI that can appropriately deal with them, and buying a Hammer uniform from a fence should not be cheap. So if you want to go into a level with no offensive arrows at all in exchange for buying a disguise, that's your choice.

In addition, there might be a weight or visibility factor associated with disguises. Garrett's normal clothing helps him move fast and light, but a Hammer typically wears some manner of chain mail. You can't expect to run as fast in disguise. Also, why would a guard hide in his own level? You chould expect your actions to have more meaning. And lastly, suppose you buy a Hammerite mage priest's robes. Wouldn't you think that the Hammer guards would all pay attention to someone wearing those robes? You'd better be careful.

Of course, that's all extrapolation of how the mechanic could work. I think that in a limited fashion it could work on some level, if the rest of the game can match it.

Caranfin
10th Jun 2009, 16:07
I'm not against one or two mission-specific disguises like TDP's Undercover. However, I feel that a Hitman-like constant game mechanic that would allow you to get a disguise from somewhere in every mission would change the gameplay too much for the game to be actually considered a Thief-title any more.

LightWarriorK
10th Jun 2009, 16:32
^ No, I wouldn't want to be able to take a uniform off a guard, either. That'd be way too much.

Plus, as soon as you were busted once, even if you got away, disguises should be useless for the rest of the level since the guards would know what you're up to.

DarthEnder
10th Jun 2009, 17:37
I wouldn't mind another mission like Undercover. And yeah, that's pretty much the only mission type that would work as a daylight mission.

hexhunter
11th Jun 2009, 16:25
Why would his eye give him away, it looks quite similiar to a normal eye doesn't it? Saying that to see him dressed as a pirate i wouldn't mind. That was a mission idea I had, that Garrett has to go undercover on a ship to steal or investigate something but when they run into an abandoned ship the captain sends him to capture it. Garrett suspects not all is right but has to do it to avoid detection.

Parts of these levels may be public, but other areas will be your typical sneaking through shadows gameplay. I also thought you could take a guards helmet so at a range they wouldn't suspect you.

If Garrett gets an eye patch then at some point there has to be a reference to Solid Snake :)

jtr7
11th Jun 2009, 16:37
His eye does not look like his flesheye. Until TDS, it was a brass sphere with a blue-green iris, with the seams and rivets visible from the front. In TDS, aside from some of the cutscenes, it looked similar to his flesheye, except for a green glow from within. Even without the glow, it still doesn't match the other eye. There's the scar.

hexhunter
11th Jun 2009, 16:52
The glow is just an effect, like Fishers PDA in SC, enemies can't really see it, if you need to explain it it's because if Garrett saw himself in a mirror he'd be able to see it.

I think he must have had it redone with ivory or something, less conspicous and smoother on his socket, the scars a good point though...

Maybe you could have a side mission to find all of the wanted posters and draw a big bushy beard and a **** dastardly moustache and by the end of the game none of the guards have a clue who you are?

LightWarriorK
11th Jun 2009, 18:07
If Garrett gets an eye patch then at some point there has to be a reference to Solid Snake :)

*sigh* I really hope you're kidding.

Myth
11th Jun 2009, 18:42
Using Assassin's Creed as a model stopped reading there.

Nate
11th Jun 2009, 19:23
Yeah, so when Garrett goes to murder the mayor or other high profile targets, he'll first have to blend in.....what a sec, what does this have to do with 'Thief!'?

LightWarriorK
11th Jun 2009, 19:46
Yeah, so when Garrett goes to murder the mayor or other high profile targets, he'll first have to blend in.....what a sec, what does this have to do with 'Thief!'?

You read my mind. I really hope that the devs know what they're doing and are discarding all the comments that would change Thief from its core base.

Assassin's Creed by any other name will still not be Thief! Annonimity isn't Thief; everyone knows who Garrett is even though they've never seen him. And Assassin's Creed isn't stealth. When you leap from a rooftop into the middle of a dozen guards in broad daylight and slaughter them like cattle, that's not stealth.

hexhunter
11th Jun 2009, 19:51
Using Assassin's Creed as a model, Altair's main method of entering and exiting a town was his ability to blend in with the holy men who walked through the gates (if you want more detail, play the game ). Likewise, after killing a mark, he blended in with townspeople or found a small crowd where he could blend in.

If you're going to use the quote tags use them properly, you're worse than a tabloid journalist... :mad2:

PS when it comes to social stealth you can't pretend LGS never tried it because TDP and T2G would have made it 2 missions where you had to hide in plain sight...

Crypto
11th Jun 2009, 20:21
When Ubisoft first started talking about Assassin's Creed, they mentioned blending with the crowd. Then they came out with screenshots of a hooded freak in a saintly white robe, a long sword pinned to his side, a short sword strapped down his back, and throwing knives tucked in his belt.

I LOL'd.

Nate
11th Jun 2009, 21:10
Hehe, what? I see guys like that all over the place around here!

Thieffanman
11th Jun 2009, 21:17
If you're going to use the quote tags use them properly, you're worse than a tabloid journalist... :mad2:

You've found out my profession. Give yourself a great big hug. Now focus on the thread.


PS when it comes to social stealth you can't pretend LGS never tried it because TDP and T2G would have made it 2 missions where you had to hide in plain sight...

Re-read the original post, and you'll see where I stated that there was a 'social stealth' example-- in particular, the part in TDP where Garrett had to disguise himself as a Hammerite.

--Thieffanman

P.S. It's 'P.S.' Note the periods. If you're going to attempt to correct other people's grammar, correct your own first.

jtr7
11th Jun 2009, 21:33
The glow is just an effect, like Fishers PDA in SC, enemies can't really see it, if you need to explain it it's because if Garrett saw himself in a mirror he'd be able to see it.

I think he must have had it redone with ivory or something, less conspicous and smoother on his socket, the scars a good point though...

Maybe you could have a side mission to find all of the wanted posters and draw a big bushy beard and a **** dastardly moustache and by the end of the game none of the guards have a clue who you are?

Hahaha. Click on a poster and it goes into a mini-game where you can use a charcoal-stick cursor to scribble on it. :thumb: Oh man, it's a good thing Warden Stout didn't have Garrett's Mech Eye plucked out.

Are you sure about the glow? I thought it was a TDS connection to the glowing Mechanist 'bot eyes. Like I said, minus the glow, they still don't match, and anyway, his missing eye is no secret.

Crypto
11th Jun 2009, 21:58
Hehe, what? I see guys like that all over the place around here!

:lol: