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Vodjanoj
9th Jun 2009, 19:34
Mine would be to 1ST expand the world, make it open ended like Oblivion!!!! 2ND make it like the originals, but with massive attention giving to stealth like Assassin's Creed and Splinter Cell with climbing, hiding in shadows, destractions etc. (I know Thief games were revolutionary in this aspect) just saying broader in range and scope!!!! 3RD Put the game out as soon as possible...........LOL............

hellwalker
9th Jun 2009, 19:40
Builder guide thee to his holy hammer -_-

Pure stealth experience for me, with no "dumb downs". I don't care whether you have to add expert or super expert difficulty for this.

LightWarriorK
9th Jun 2009, 20:33
TDP was vs. The Trickster via the Undead and Beasts

TMA was vs. Karras via The Mechanists

TDS was vs. Gamal via The Keepers


The Trickster was a "god" and yet real, so there's nothing to say that The Builder can't be real too, right?

I'd love for Thief 4 to be vs. The Builder via The Hammerites. Maybe the Hammers are taking advantage of the lack of glyphs by advancing their dogma in a crusade-like format that Garrett needs to dismantle from the inside. I'd play that.

DarthEnder
9th Jun 2009, 22:24
Thief's setting/story/equipment/enemies/mission struction.

Assassin's Creed's running/climbing/jumping and rhythm based melee combat(but without enemies that wait to attack one at a time).

Euphoria and Havoc for character animations and physics.


Alternatively if they were going to go for first person view only, then Mirror's Edge for climbing/jumping and Chronicles of Rid****'s melee combat system.


Undead god/faction for the new primary enemy.

Platinumoxicity
9th Jun 2009, 22:28
Assassin's Creed's running/climbing/jumping and rhythm based melee combat(but without enemies that wait to attack one at a time).

Alternatively if they were going to go for first person view only, then Mirror's Edge for climbing/jumping and Chronicles of Rid****'s melee combat system..

Why would you want all that running climbing and jumping around in a Thief game? It makes an awful lot of noise.

MasterTaffer
9th Jun 2009, 22:41
Why would you want all that running climbing and jumping around in a Thief game? It makes an awful lot of noise.

Not to mention it's attention grabbing, as eyes tend to track to motion. Hell, Altair's parkour moves are literally called "High Profile Manuevers."

No, I don't think parkour or free running fit at all in Thief's concept. Garrett's a sliver of glass in the carpet, waiting quietly and patiently to strike.

DarthEnder
9th Jun 2009, 22:58
Why would you want all that running climbing and jumping around in a Thief game? It makes an awful lot of noise.Thieves' Highway. There's no guards, and a ****-ton of jumping and climbing. You don't need to be quiet, you need to be agile.

They way you people are talking you'd think you'd never used the Run button in the entire series. And if that's what your trying to imply, you're a liar, because there's no way you tiptoed through the entire game when you know that half the time there isn't anything around to hear you.

It's just one of those thing. Your outside your target building. The only guards are at the doors, and your in a side alley looking to get to the roof. You could climb up a bunch of window sills and overhanging roofs and such ala Assassin's Creed. Or you could find a ridiculously places set of giant crates that makes a stairway up to the roof and you'll STILL fail to mantle up them half the time.

And then there's the most obvious use for it. When you've already been caught. It's time to run, and being quiet doesn't matter any more at that point. It's time to make some fancy moves that the armored guards aren't going to be able to keep up with.

MasterTaffer
9th Jun 2009, 23:05
Thieves' Highway. There's no guards, and a ****-ton of jumping and climbing. You don't need to be quiet, you need to be agile.

I recall trying to be quiet on the only level the Thieves highway is prevelant in, as there were goddamn guards on rooftops as well. If they call the rooftops "The Thieves' Highway" in the City, it would seem like the logical choice to put guards on the roof.

Oh, and the only times I ran was to make a jump gap or a guard spotted me. If you run, you often miss sights, sounds and objects, so it seems counter productive to run when it isn't necessary.

DarthEnder
9th Jun 2009, 23:10
Oh, and the only times I ran was to make a jump gap or a guard spotted me. If you run, you often miss sights, sounds and objects, so it seems counter productive to run when it isn't necessary.And if there were as many guards on the roof as there were on the street it would BE the Thieves' Highway.

There's like 3 rooftops in that level with guards, and like 20 that don't.

MasterTaffer
9th Jun 2009, 23:13
And if there were as many guards on the roof as there were on the street it would BE the Thieves' Highway.

There's like 3 rooftops in that level with guards, and like 20 that don't.

There's enough guards on the roof to warrent taking my time.

Not to mention that if you trigger the alarm in Angelwatch, the rooftops are positively INFESTED with guards on your way back.

Slither
9th Jun 2009, 23:26
* No load zones. Only mission briefings separate one map from the other.
* Ghosting possible in all missions.
* Mostly human AI opponents, but an undead level or two would be nice.
* Use music, sound and level design to build tension; don't rely solely on AIs.
* No automap. Let me do it in my head. It adds to the atmosphere.
* Make the maps complex enough so I have to try to remember my way around.

There are others, but I can't sit here long enough for them all to bubble to the surface.

DarthEnder
9th Jun 2009, 23:44
Not to mention that if you trigger the alarm in Angelwatch, the rooftops are positively INFESTED with guards on your way back.What do you mean if? How do you open the painting safe without triggering the alarm?

LightWarriorK
9th Jun 2009, 23:59
There's a switch hidden in the empty hall closet that shares a wall with the back wall of the office that disables the alarm.

MasterTaffer
10th Jun 2009, 00:24
What he said.

DarthEnder
10th Jun 2009, 00:39
Ho-lee-****.

ikenstein
10th Jun 2009, 02:09
Thief's setting/story/equipment/enemies/mission struction.

Assassin's Creed's running/climbing/jumping and rhythm based melee combat(but without enemies that wait to attack one at a time).



That sounds kind of cool. But it would be even better if he could pole vault as well.




Alternatively if they were going to go for first person view only, then Mirror's Edge for climbing/jumping and Chronicles of Rid****'s melee combat system.


Undead god/faction for the new primary enemy.

To really pack the most win and awsome posible into the game garat needs to be a karate man and the baddies need to be mutant orangatangs. Then as you pole vault in and lay out an orangatang with a single tomahawk chop on the head garat can do a bruce lee style high pitch yell ' whaaaaaa-paaah!!!'

That would rock.

Thieffanman
10th Jun 2009, 02:21
My ideal concept? Garrett travels to different cities and/or countries. Each city (or city within a country) would be different much in the same way the world is today: some cities would have advanced security and well-trained Guards to avoid (while still keeping within the "Thief" goth/medieval/steampunk ambience), some would barely be above barbarism. The player, as a result, would have to change their tactics to deal with each scenario that such a society presents.

I'd also like to see the game's timeline advance a little, maybe more 'Renaissance/goth/steampunk', rather than 'medieval/goth/steampunk' meaning more decorative buildings, more statuary, nobility in more well-stated, well-dressed garments. Think Venice, Italy, around 1550 A.D.

I'd also want to keep the detective-story-like feel of TDS: each mission in the storyline uncovered a vital clue that led up to a climactic ending. That definitely needs to stay.

--Thieffanman

Diomedes
10th Jun 2009, 02:32
I'd love for the Pagans to start their war. With half the city overrun and frequent skirmishes that's a lot of loot, and a lot of chances to make patrols fight each other. It also divides the citizens into siding with the ostensibly more powerful Pagans or the Army/Town watch. Of course the Hammers wouldn't take too kindly to the Pagan invasion but they would be losing, slowly. It also means that the Pagans would have looted a whole bunch of stuff that the Hammers would pay to get back, or the Pagans would pay to get some information on their enemy.

The overarching plot could be that a fanatic Hammerite who wants to invoke the Builder God to save the faithful whilst the unfaithful are killed by the Pagans (who would theoretically be killed by the Builder). This would also hold to the religious tenants because the fanatic wouldn't be killing anybody as it would be the Builder doing it.

As the game progresses the town would have areas in conflict, with fighting in the streets, However, as with most medieval warzones, there will grey areas where Garret can be Garret.

Lame?

LightWarriorK
10th Jun 2009, 03:41
^ If Garrett being Garrett is the exception (only in certain grey areas) and not the rule, then yeah, sorry, kind of lame.


That sounds kind of cool. But it would be even better if he could pole vault as well.

To really pack the most win and awsome posible into the game garat needs to be a karate man and the baddies need to be mutant orangatangs. Then as you pole vault in and lay out an orangatang with a single tomahawk chop on the head garat can do a bruce lee style high pitch yell ' whaaaaaa-paaah!!!'

That would rock.

Boy I hope you're kidding. That's just....not Thief.:scratch:

Some of these ideas are great. Some of them are funny. Some of them scare me that Thief fans think that they can be implemented and still call the game "Thief."

Nate
10th Jun 2009, 04:23
-No load zones. PC and Xbox 360 have plenty of memory to avoid load zones altogether. Make Huge maps please.

-IF a city hub can't be done well, concentrate only on the campaign mission maps and the story. If a Hub isn't in the game, Garrett can have an 'Apartment/Home' screen prior to the mission where he can buy tips/equipment and leave stuff behind...just make sure he can read bought tips PRIOR to entering the mission so he can customize his equipment load out (it was insane that he bought tips in the first 2 games and only read them AFTER he started the mission?!?!).

-No loot glint, make valuables actually look valuable instead.

-Allow Garrett to drop stuff without pitching it across the room (makes a racket for no reason).

-Ghosting should be an option in all campaign missions.

-AI in the game should be top notch. They should notice when things are out of place, when guards are missing, and should sound the alarm when they know a thief is about.

-Guards/NPCs sounding an alarm SHOULD MEAN SOMETHING more than a couple of guards wandering around....maybe a difficulty setting could be 'no alarms allowed = mission fail'!

-Possible timer on guards who are gassed waking up after 20 minutes...but the devs need to figure out if it is feasible

-Possible timer on guards who are BJ waking up 10-60 minutes after being knocked out (at reduced sensory effectiveness) and then sounding the alarm.....but the devs need to figure out if it is feasible.

-Carry Capacity difficulty levels should be in the game. I want the hardest setting to only allow us to carry 12 arrows and 1 item (either a mine, or a gas grenade, or a holy water flask, or a potion...and so on).

-The majority of the missions should be human (or human/beast with Pagans). Only 2-3 missions should be beast or undead type missions.

-The game should have the same atmospheric music and 'tenseness' as the prior 3 games.

-A map is fine (especially if you bought/found one prior to the mission). But no lame 'you are here' dot on the map....players should need to figure it out themselves.

-A choice between using a dagger or short sword (that has a tiny stealth penalty but MUCH better combat ability)...the short sword should have fencing again like the first games.

-Guards need to be able to attack while running after Garrett.

-Guards need to have the same stamina as Garrett....TDS guards out of breath after 20 seconds of running = lame.

-Better body physics than TDS....the rubber people really sucked in TDS!

-Multiplayer (versus, co-op, and campaign co-op)....but not if it takes away from dev work on the single player campaign. I'd actually like this MUCH more than a city hub that is almost certainly bound to disappoint.

Belboz
10th Jun 2009, 04:39
we do want automaps reguardless of what someone further up said, some of us cant do it in our heads. Although include an option in the option screen to turn off automaps for thoses that don't want them, and we want an option to turn off loot glint if you add that, and an option to turn of bloom it looks naff on some graphics cards.

Nate
10th Jun 2009, 04:44
Sure, I can't argue against an option for some players who need an automap 'you are here' spot.

Personally, I can't stand that, but I fully understand that not everyone has the same level of 3d reasoning. So an option to turn it on and off is fine.

LightWarriorK
10th Jun 2009, 13:27
Very thorough list! My comments in Red


-No load zones. PC and Xbox 360 have plenty of memory to avoid load zones altogether. Make Huge maps please.
-Agreed. Progressive loading is also fairly new and can help even more.

-IF a city hub can't be done well, concentrate only on the campaign mission maps and the story. If a Hub isn't in the game, Garrett can have an 'Apartment/Home' screen prior to the mission where he can buy tips/equipment and leave stuff behind...just make sure he can read bought tips PRIOR to entering the mission so he can customize his equipment load out (it was insane that he bought tips in the first 2 games and only read them AFTER he started the mission?!?!).
-Wholehearedly agreed.

-No loot glint, make valuables actually look valuable instead.
-Agreed

-Allow Garrett to drop stuff without pitching it across the room (makes a racket for no reason).
- Could do this in TDP and TMA with the "Drop" button, but would still make a noise depending on how high it was droped, what it was, and what it was dropped onto.

-Ghosting should be an option in all campaign missions.
- Like a bonus if you manage to do it? Or just that the levels should be designed so that it's possible?

-AI in the game should be top notch. They should notice when things are out of place, when guards are missing, and should sound the alarm when they know a thief is about
Absolutely. From the comments in the AI thread, I think everyone would love to see this..

-Guards/NPCs sounding an alarm SHOULD MEAN SOMETHING more than a couple of guards wandering around....maybe a difficulty setting could be 'no alarms allowed = mission fail'!
Yeah, "Sir, we sounded the alarm!" "But then you turned it off. Did you find the thief?" "Uh, no sir, he ran up a ladder and we lost him in the attic." "So he could still be here??" "Uh, I guess so." "Ah well, if you see him again, sound the alarm." In the Expert difficulty, this should never happen. There were two missions in TMA where this was the requirement: "Framed" and "Casing the Joint," I believe. I don't know if it needs to be a broad requirement for all levels, but I do like it if it suits the mission.

-Possible timer on guards who are gassed waking up after 20 minutes...but the devs need to figure out if it is feasible
Gassed....maybe. Certainly not for blackjacking, but maybe the time could be scaled to how directly s/he was hit with the gas, so a gas arrow to the head would be "permanant" like a blackjack, but being on the edge of a cloud would only be 20 min. Hmm...I kinda like that. But the "anti-reviving guard" crowd is very strong for good reason. It'd have to be tempered with an option to blackjack a gassed guard to make the knockout "permanant."

-Possible timer on guards who are BJ waking up 10-60 minutes after being knocked out (at reduced sensory effectiveness) and then sounding the alarm.....but the devs need to figure out if it is feasible.
I would say no to this one. The arguments in the blackjacking thread are correct. If you're hit on the head like that, you're out for hours.

-Carry Capacity difficulty levels should be in the game. I want the hardest setting to only allow us to carry 12 arrows and 1 item (either a mine, or a gas grenade, or a holy water flask, or a potion...and so on).
A difficult one to judge. In some ways it makes sense, but since the harder difficulties also require getting the most loot, a capacity to how much you can carry will lead to a LOT of wasted or unspent money.

-The majority of the missions should be human (or human/beast with Pagans). Only 2-3 missions should be beast or undead type missions.
While I agree, mostly, I'd say that having beasts and undead show up in small numbers like they do in TMA would be fine. They often added a lot of color to the missions.

-The game should have the same atmospheric music and 'tenseness' as the prior 3 games.
Agreed and seconded.

-A map is fine (especially if you bought/found one prior to the mission). But no lame 'you are here' dot on the map....players should need to figure it out themselves.
A dot like in TDS is a little much, but there was always at least an indication of what room you were in. I don't think this is too out of line.

-A choice between using a dagger or short sword (that has a tiny stealth penalty but MUCH better combat ability)...the short sword should have fencing again like the first games.
There are several threads on this topic. My preference would have you choose the weapon before the mission.

-Guards need to be able to attack while running after Garrett.
Might be tough to implement. If it can work, it could be ok.

-Guards need to have the same stamina as Garrett....TDS guards out of breath after 20 seconds of running = lame.
Guards are usually more heavilly armored and weighed down than Garrett. In most games with stats "thieves" have much more stamina and agility than "soldiers" or "warriors," typically for that very reason, but also that guard-like persons have a different body type than thieves.

-Better body physics than TDS....the rubber people really sucked in TDS!
This was also talked about in another thread. Someone stated truthfully that the rubberband action in rag-doll physics was very early, and has since been majorly improved.

-Multiplayer (versus, co-op, and campaign co-op)....but not if it takes away from dev work on the single player campaign. I'd actually like this MUCH more than a city hub that is almost certainly bound to disappoint.
I'd say no. Thief is a solitary game about a solitary thief. Bringing in other thieves not only would fundamentally change the way the missions are played away from what the developers intend, but would alter the atmosphere of the game dramatically. One of the core tenants of Thief is that you're supposed to have a fully-immersed lonely feeling. There are few moments in gaming that are more profound than sitting alone on a rooftop and looking over the city silently by yourself, or creeping through the Cradle knowing that no one is coming to help you.

protoss.Ecorin
10th Jun 2009, 14:04
Here's my list of improvements that could be done with modern game development.
1.Factions. I would like to see Keepers,Hammerites,Thieves,Pagans and maybe Neo-Mechanists and Garrett choosing one so it will affect the whole gameplay.
2.Loot. You could only carry a limited amount of it and the more loot you steal, the more visible+audible and slower you become. And the prices should be gone, you should be able to make the difference between diamonds and sapphires or silver and gold.
3.Diverse enemies. Different types of guards, pagans, religious dudes,pirates, whatever.
4.Equipment. Same like with loot, limited amount, you need to figure out what equipment you would need for a certain mission (hints in area or enemies) and to leave some other equipment behind. Also maybe some new items never thought of before such as throwing daggers or something.
5.Day and Night. I would like the game to be as gloomy and dark as possible, but during the daytime, hiding in shadows would be harder (if you need to move during daytime) or having to change clothes to look like a citizen.
6.More violence and choosing the type of play. You could barge in and kill everyone by beheading them or choose a silent way of backstabbing. Or, as previously mentioned, be able to pass every mission without guards noticing anything while killing no-one and only completing the objective. That leads to my final point, for now...
7.Difficulty. Novice players could start out with easy, and casual gameplay (for new players introduced to Thief) but as for players familiar to the series, normal, hard and impossible. Yes, I said 4. Each difficulty level raising the bar higher with more enemies and harder objectives.

Like a lot of people,I've been waiting for Thief 4 for a long time and although the title "Thi4f" bugs me a little, I'm expecting a well-done game. Thief: Deadly Shadows was good, but a little disappointing in some parts.

Diomedes
10th Jun 2009, 19:16
Keepers,Hammerites,Thieves,Pagans and maybe Neo-Mechanists and Garrett choosing one

I like this idea although a gradient would be best. I like how in TDS I could ally myself with both groups although with so many groups there could be multiple endings or story arcs. What I mean by gradient is, say, if Garrett helps out the town watch (somewhat) then the Thieves would be pissy and try to kill Garrett but the Hammers might be kind of pleased with Garrett too. Or, if helping the Hammers, the Pagans would be super angry but Garrett could still work with some other thieves.

Most important in all this is that each faction is unique. Pagans might have a park area and have a spy working at a hebalists whereas the Hammers would have a Cathedral all to themselves and perhaps a parish somewhere else. The town watch would have posts in most areas whereas thieves would be harder to find and most dispersed.


Day and Night

I also love this idea. A daytime jaunt might be required after a particularly long mission, or if Garrett wanted to steal some stuff in the marketplace.




Anybody else worried it may end up too much like Assassin's Creed?

Erebos
10th Jun 2009, 19:41
My ideal Thief 4 game would be set learning the ropes of the trade. I would want to see Garrett defeat the competition and earn his title. I want to experience his rise to malevolent title of Master Thief. I want to know how his colloquial cloak and dagger skills became apart of him. I want to know why he is the sarcastic being we've all come to love and dream about.

I also want the game to be more about stealth; better yet, stealth that redefines the genre. The game was good, but, with today's technology, it can be a lot better. I would like to see guards wake from a black jack hit, darts, more fences, other thieves (I found it odd you had no competition in a city filled with riches), no loading zones, and best of all, an open world.

And day and night.

Platinumoxicity
10th Jun 2009, 19:47
Do you want a prequel then? Garrett has a long been the greatest thief in the City already.

imported_van_HellSing
10th Jun 2009, 19:48
Mine would be to 1ST expand the world, make it open ended like Oblivion!!!!

Solution: go and play Oblivion with some thiefy mods (Thieves Arsenal comes to mind), and don't bother us anymore.

Erebos
10th Jun 2009, 20:10
Do you want a prequel then? Garrett has a long been the greatest thief in the City already.

I think it's time for a prequel. The story alone can make or break the game.

hexhunter
11th Jun 2009, 15:10
Solution: go and play Oblivion with some thiefy mods (Thieves Arsenal comes to mind), and don't bother us anymore.

Yes, because your opinions count and his don't. I definitly want an open world city and I know it could be done better than in TDS.

Anyway, I'd like to see Garrett handling the issue of where his allegences lie, in the last few Keepers or his need to steal. Prophet or profit I guess..

I'd also want to see the Pagan/Hammer war develop, new Mechanists and alot of different areas to steal from, old and new...

Nate
11th Jun 2009, 19:09
Focus on single player story and campaign. Worry about city hub and multiplayer later (if at all)!

xDarknessFallsx
11th Jun 2009, 20:31
The first post of this thread scares me :)

Nate
11th Jun 2009, 21:09
Yeah, me too.....hold me!