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Hamadriyad
7th Jun 2009, 08:44
I think we should see our reflection in reflective surfaces, mirrors, windows, water etc. Imagine, there is a guard and you are about KO him. But he sees your reflection and attacks you!
And we can see Garrett in game, without 3rd person also.
I don't know techinal possibilities, of course.
What do you think?

Shadow Blade
7th Jun 2009, 08:52
I think we should see our reflection in reflective surfaces, mirrors, windows, water etc. Imagine, there is a guard and you are about KO him. But he sees your reflection and attacks you!
And we can see Garrett also in game, without 3rd person.
I don't know techinal possibilities, of course.
What do you think?

Thats a pretty good idea:cool: maybe the guards should also react to your shadow aswell because lets admit a shadow that basses by is pretty suspiceous:hmm:

esme
7th Jun 2009, 15:35
I like these ideas a lot :thumb:

I also think AI should find sudden patches of moss that appear in the middle of pristine marble floors to be highly suspicious

Hamadriyad
7th Jun 2009, 15:46
I also think AI should find sudden patches of moss that appear in the middle of pristine marble floors to be highly suspicious

Yes. I always think that is ridiculous when guard come back and recognize nothing.

Yaphy
7th Jun 2009, 15:49
Yes, it would be great to see the reflections in shiny surfaces. In glass windows to, if there is enough light at the side of the window that Garrett is;It should be hard to see through it.

Hypevosa
7th Jun 2009, 18:17
Whenever I'm just walking about in the real world I use reflections to look behind me all the time... it would be awesome to be to use reflections in Thief 4, and for them to be used against me. We should also be able to break mirrors, and maybe have some funny or horrid event happen from the bad luck. (maybe a rival thief comes and you have to watch for him because he starts stealing loot too :D, that would be a fun little game of mouse and mouse, trying to get him before he makes off with a bunch of the level loot)

jtr7
7th Jun 2009, 18:48
It would be cool if it was possible. I'm all for it, it just cannot be done. Reflections in mirrors usually require a second room to be built to mirror the room the player is in, and a second player model to mimic the player's movements. If they can get past the processing power required to make real time reflections without crude, level-design-limiting tricks, then WHOOHOOO!

Light reflects, refracts, and is absorbed in real life, but not in a game world. There are no photon particles ricocheting and absorbing in the virtual gaming world. For movies, such effects take up to an hour per frame to render that kind of light-scattering.

esme
7th Jun 2009, 22:30
couldn't it be faked ?

TDS can have portals to other areas and the player can't see the portal they just see through it like it isn't there, sort of like teleport traps from TDP & TMA, but you can see the destination, it's seamless

so you make a mirror by having a portal that looks back into the room you are in, and have a transparent barrier over it so you can't go through it, you will probably need to incorporate a left-right flip on the graphics rendering but it shouldn't be impossible to do in real time

breaking the mirror would have to destroy the portal so you couldn't carry a mirror shard to look round corners

Hypevosa
7th Jun 2009, 23:11
Well I know that portal the game works basically by creating a new room through each portal, but I'd think if you did that for every reflective surface it'd take too much processing.

Platinumoxicity
7th Jun 2009, 23:44
It would be cool if it was possible. I'm all for it, it just cannot be done. Reflections in mirrors usually require a second room to be built to mirror the room the player is in, and a second player model to mimic the player's movements. If they can get past the processing power required to make real time reflections without crude, level-design-limiting tricks, then WHOOHOOO!

Light reflects, refracts, and is absorbed in real life, but not in a game world. There are no photon particles ricocheting and absorbing in the virtual gaming world. For movies, such effects take up to an hour per frame to render that kind of light-scattering.

Where have you been living the last 10 years? The first game I saw that included perfectly working mirrors with absolutely no hit on the performance was Max Payne 2 in 2003. And they don't need mirrored additional rooms anymore. That was back in 1996. :lmao:


Well I know that portal the game works basically by creating a new room through each portal, but I'd think if you did that for every reflective surface it'd take too much processing.

No, it works just like the mirror shaders invented years ago, but instead of showing a mirrored image projected into the portal and reflected out of it, it shows a real image projected into the other end that's "reflected" out of the portal. It's a pretty convincing effect though because it doesn't pixelate the image at all like some older mirror shaders. But it has nothing to do with creating new rooms. ;)

Nate
7th Jun 2009, 23:48
Yeah, mirrors would be a nice touch.

esme
7th Jun 2009, 23:54
sorry I was using the wrong terminology, I meant a warpzoneportal like in the unreal engine

http://wiki.beyondunreal.com/Legacy:WarpZoneInfo

basically a link between two areas that are in different parts of the map that you can see through as well as walk, no copies of rooms get made and the player generally can't spot it's there unless it stops the layout of the map from making sense

so just connect the warpzoneportal back to the room you are in and you can see the room you are in when you look at it, flip the rendering and add a transparent barrier and bingo you have a mirror

Shadow Blade
8th Jun 2009, 14:34
I remember a Splinter Cell Chaos Theory mission where you had to cross a room that had a huge mirror and if you didnt deactivate the lights the guard saw your reflection and turned around and started shooting. It was the only mirror in that particular game that was used like that or made on such a large scale. The other mirrors where tiny and you hardly noticed them. It must be pretty tricky if they only used that trick once.

Hamadriyad
8th Jun 2009, 15:40
I remember a Splinter Cell Chaos Theory mission where you had to cross a room that had a huge mirror and if you didnt deactivate the lights the guard saw your reflection and turned around and started shooting. It was the only mirror in that particular game that was used like that or made on such a large scale. The other mirrors where tiny and you hardly noticed them. It must be pretty tricky if they only used that trick once.

No, not once. They should do this for every reflective surfaces.(If they can)

Shadow Blade
8th Jun 2009, 15:44
sorry I was using the wrong terminology, I meant a warpzoneportal like in the unreal engine

http://wiki.beyondunreal.com/Legacy:WarpZoneInfo

basically a link between two areas that are in different parts of the map that you can see through as well as walk, no copies of rooms get made and the player generally can't spot it's there unless it stops the layout of the map from making sense

so just connect the warpzoneportal back to the room you are in and you can see the room you are in when you look at it, flip the rendering and add a transparent barrier and bingo you have a mirror


Sounds simple enough but programming the Ai to react like a normal person and not charge at the mirror and attempt to slash at your reflection sounds like the trickier part to me I wonder how long it would take to do it properly?

Shadow Blade
8th Jun 2009, 15:53
No, not once. They should do this for every reflective surfaces.(If they can)

Sorry my mistake:) I only remember it in that mission with all the suanas :confused: maybe I missed it or didnt notice lol

esme
8th Jun 2009, 15:57
Sounds simple enough but programming the Ai to react like a normal person and not charge at the mirror and attempt to slash at your reflection sounds like the trickier part to me I wonder how long it would take?

I could have sworn I just posted that :confused: musta hit the preview button ... getting senile

well if there's a transparent barrier over the portal then the AI's pathfinding won't let it attack the mirror, but it would still need some work on the target locator software to deal with the concept of a reflection, I wouldn't think it would be that hard, the AI would know it's looking through a portal even if the player doesn't so the software could take that into account, you'd just need a software tag on the portal to identify it as a mirror

it's definitely possible

huzi73
8th Jun 2009, 16:00
Really? It cant be that complicated, all they have to do is program the ai to become alert and do a full 360 turn to look around. But im no programmer so...

Hamadriyad
8th Jun 2009, 16:16
Sorry my mistake:) I only remember it in that mission with all the suanas :confused: maybe I missed it or didnt notice lol

No,no, no need to sorry! I am sorry. I never played chaos theory. I talked for Thief 4. I mean devs shouldn't use this once unlike SC.:)

Mr. Perfect
9th Jun 2009, 03:38
Even if they can't get the AI to react to mirrors, it could still be a nice graphic effect. After all, Garret isn't a vampire. He should be casting reflections in mirrors one way or another. ;)

DarthEnder
9th Jun 2009, 04:05
You guys are overcomplicating your explanations for this.

The technology for this is already in other games. Just say "I want guards to notice reflections." and call it a day.