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Hypevosa
6th Jun 2009, 20:04
Should there be horses in Thief 4? We have heard horses hooves and seen them depicted in TDP/Thief Gold, but horses have never actually appeared in the game. Horses bring alot of potential:

Use as a get away from mansions robbed far outside city walls where walking would be impractical
Maybe a mission specific loot item would be stealing a prized horse from some stable and selling it in the black market
Guards mounted on horses could present new challenges for the player since they can't be blackjacked from the street level (their horses could be spooked making them run off, etc.
The player could be given the option to use a horse, favoring a quick getaway over a stealthy one, allowing for them to put enough distance between them and their pursuers, then ditching the horse and finding cover as their pursuers run past.
Horse drawn carriages going to and from shops carrying goods or nobles.

In the very first game if you shift the difficulty to expert, one of the requirements states that you don't kill any pets (mainly animals in the level, the only ones being the spiders guarding a ring in a cavern in the sewers.. Later on at Ramirez's mansion you come across his 2 pet burricks. However, other than these 2 instances, domestic animals are few and far between. They also offer alot of potential as the horses do:

Cats or Dogs being new things to be maneuvered around and dispatched.
Cats are silent and sensitive to noise, meaning they would need to be watched out for. Can be distracted by rats or mice (dead or alive), yarn, ice cubes, and various other objects, instead of being just blackjacked or killed, plus, they don't speak like humans, so people would probably just think they wanted attention, pick them up and walk away with them... guards would probably kick em.
Dogs can smell someone and pursue them unless they clean off. However, are easily distracted by giving them meat (like those deer legs from TDP and TMA), or a bone. They also are much more able to communicate danger and intruders to humans after a little bit, unless you become their friend. Maybe pet him or play fetch or something.
Guard dogs can present a challenge when making an escape. Taking a dip through water to remove scent can be a reliable method, or leaving something more preferable off on another trail. They also cannot pursue what they can't catch. Let's see dogs and masters pursue a roof bound thief.
Burricks obviously pose a threat of gas attacks, and can burrow under walls (which could serve to your purposes to get into the back yard...)

Horses and domestic animals open alot of challenges and options for the thieving universe. So the simple question is should they be included? Should some and not others?

Vote now! O.O

This is just to be whether or not they should be included. Should Garrett have the ABILITY to ride them is another matter which you should post about how you feel.

Personally I think we should have the ability, though we should have little control or delayed controls, since it's neither our horse, nor are we trained to ride it, but it could provide a fast getaway from pursuing guards, and can always be ditched in favor of shadows. I don't think Garrett would bother buying a horse either because of the expense.
And if we ditch the horse outfront of our building or near it, the guards should case that area.

MasterTaffer
6th Jun 2009, 20:10
I have no problem with horses and other domestic animals being in the game. But simply for asthetic reasons, no horse/burrick/dog/cat riding seems necessary to me.

Hypevosa
6th Jun 2009, 20:20
wow, it's actually unanimous so far XD

And I agree, horse riding doesn't seem necessary. But for examples sake, lets say that you indeed went on a special job and stole some amazing race horse from some noble's stable out in the country. You are walking with it on the path to the exit when all the sudden you hear ALOT of barking, you turn to see that apparently the lord's lady fancied a late night ride and noticed the horse was missing, and called together a search party. You have entered an "oh s****" situation, and would probably want to get on the horse rather than hoofing it.

Or another situation. Lets say that there're 4 guards forming a blockade on the street to the quarter you live in, so the walls are too high to get around using the thieve's highway... lets say a street back there was a guard on a horse. You go back, push the man off the horse, and take it for a ram of the blockade, 2 streets later ditch the horse and take the shadows from there. (you could just spook the horse and have it ram the blockade without you though)

I say make the horse at least an option for the player, though how many of us will use it... we'll see. Like I said, it's not your horse nor are you trained to ride it, so it should be difficult to control so people don't just race up and down the streets with it.

Blade_hunter
6th Jun 2009, 21:45
Hum the thing is the poll just put attention to their presence, I think this poll have a strong chance to be unanimous in some ways.
Because having horses in the game and be able to use them is pretty much different.
I think this is the right problem.
In the first thief we have horses, but they are a decoration ...

Hypevosa
6th Jun 2009, 21:54
Hum the thing is the poll just put attention to their presence, I think this poll have a strong chance to be unanimous in some ways.
Because having horses in the game and be able to use them is pretty much different.
I think this is the right problem.
In the first thief we have horses, but they are a decoration ...

That's what the point is, should they not just be decoration but be in the game, as in the part we play. I illustrated as many points as to their potential uses as I read or came up with myself. Like I said, I wanted to leave the "Should we have the option to RIDE the horses" bit to debate. I think the option should be there for those who wish to execute it, but it shouldn't make the game any easier... just think of it like having another path you can take to an objective, but one that's a little taller, bulkier, and harder to control.

Elentarien
7th Jun 2009, 00:39
Personally, I would love to see more animals in the game. Even from just an asthetic pov. While it would be cool if they could be ridden, mounted guards, carts with horses, etc. Just having them around would be great. It always sort of bothered me that there were so few in the early games (though I loved the cats in TDS). It would be nice to have the occassional cat or dog - or even chickens roaming around as well as the rats, to go into stables and find a cow or a horse in the stalls. Carts and carriages could be *there*, so its suggested they are used, but the missions are usually at night when most people would be abed anyway. And depending on the city area, mounted guards could be interesting, but I don't see them in all areas of the city.

I'd say birds would be nice too - but since most of the Thief stories are at night, I guess it'd have to be bats. Or giant moths. lol

Also, somehow I just don't see Garrett as being much of a rider. He's a city boy - and being a thief he's pretty darn low on the social ladder (if not right off it entirely) and his chances of learning to ride a horse would probably have been pretty slim.

But yeah, some animals would be nice additions.

Inspector Drept
7th Jun 2009, 01:31
There was a cat at TDS first mission, the Blue Heron Inn.
It would just walk by. Without alerting your presence to any other AI.

Other animals we know that exist in the Thief world:
Bears
Deers
Herons
Fishes
Frogs
Spiders
Crabs
Rats

Hypevosa
7th Jun 2009, 01:48
We should go to the bear pits as a mission and rob stuff from it! It would be an amazing tribute to an amazing first conversation in the first game XD I'd be so happy. Especially if we were under the bleachers and heard some old fart talking about when they didn't need all the gizmos they wore now.

Shadow Blade
7th Jun 2009, 09:29
Animals in thief 4 would be good. Maybe the horses could be used for fast travelling the city (for those lazy people) to get to areas that’ll take you frustratingly long to get to. Although Garrett riding past all the guards isn’t very thief like or they could give us quicker access to these areas via roof tops. What do you guys think?

Platinumoxicity
7th Jun 2009, 09:42
I don't have a poblem with dogs or cats, if theyre designer properly. The cats in TDS were a nightmare! Sometimes they got stuck in furniture, so they started making a racket. When they tried to move, the furniture started making a racket, so the cat responded to it by making a racket! This alerted the guards and everyone in the room and I couldn't sneak through! And it lasted forever, the guard kept saying: "There's the noise again. I know someone's there!" and they never stopped searching until I put a broadhead through the cats head.

I had to put both cats in Moira's mansion to sleep because they were bugging out. :(

Lady_Of_The_Vine
7th Jun 2009, 09:51
I much prefer that EM gives us back the thieves' highway (rooftop freedom) as opposed to travelling the streets by horse.
A horse is okay if I am to go outside of the city, but I much prefer caves and tunnel access instead, or portals.
I like the idea of animals appearing in the game, just not necessarily interactive.
But dogs, perhaps, could be utilised more, they are always a challenge when sneaking about because their sense of hearing and smell is going to be better than any guard's - drunk or not! :D
Just the sound of a dog barking in the night as you approach it's territory is quite atmospheric. I like that. Or the sound of a cat and dog having a little fight is fun! :naughty:
Good audio can be just as effective as video, if implemented well.

Anyway, I voted for the first option - but mainly for decoration purposes, with some leeway there. ;)

CurtX
7th Jun 2009, 13:18
If we look to the design of the original games, I'm not sure where (ridable) horses would fit in. Part of the fun in those games was exploring areas only accessible by a Thief. It makes better use of the level if it was all made to be explored on foot, and not ridden through. Don't throw horses in just because it sounds cool. This isn't the game for them.

SlyGarrett
7th Jun 2009, 20:57
Horses and domestic animals should be included.

At least horses and watchdogs should be implanted in the game.

Horses should be more an optional feature for Garrett/playing character - for example, he might steal a horse as an objective in a mission, but otherwise riding should only bring disadvantage.
Too loud, guards could get him off the horse with an arrow, or the horse could drop him off when it gets panic etc.

The thing with horses is similar to fighting with swords in T1&2 - Garrett was able to fight the guards, but in the end he preferred the sneaky way. Only the guards used swords.

Mounted guards would be very good, because they would be able to move quickly, have a wider horizon where they could see things, and also they couldn't be knocked out with a blackjack.

jtr7
7th Jun 2009, 21:01
Agreed, 'cept for Garrett riding a horse. Any serious horse-riding will cut into development time, and these devs need more time to build more of The City than we've ever seen. As a fledgling company, I don't know if they have the funds to purchase rights to use animations and mechanics from other games that do horse-riding fairly well, since they have their hands quite full with just capturing the Thief experience.

Deathologist
7th Jun 2009, 21:02
I like the animal idea. I would be much more scarred of a guard with a dog then just some plain old vanilla guard :P. I wouldn't abuse the Guard+dog thing to much though.

SlyGarrett
7th Jun 2009, 21:46
Agreed, 'cept for Garrett riding a horse. Any serious horse-riding will cut into development time, and these devs need more time to build more of The City than we've ever seen. As a fledgling company, I don't know if they have the funds to purchase rights to use animations and mechanics from other games that do horse-riding fairly well, since they have their hands quite full with just capturing the Thief experience.

Why not riding a horse not so much for gameplay, but more for atmosphere?
Just because you were able to use swords in T1&2, this didn't mean that you use it often!

Sometimes you would have to leave the City for a trip to the country-side with a horse from the faction's stable.
In a sequence you would see how the character rides on his black horse in a black coat trough the fogs (great atmosphere), when they suddenly stand in a front of a scary castle or a building right in the middle of nowhere - you know what I mean, kind of Shalebridge Cradle atmosphere.
The horse would get nervous because it feels some supernatural powers, but Garrett would calm it down and then get of.

At the beginning of the real mission you would stand near your horse, but couldn't escape with it until you have solved all objectives. This means you would have to enter the building on your own - and leave it again on your own!
Nonetheless, knowing that you have a friend for you waiting outside would help you to stay calm while entering the unknown building!

Lady_Of_The_Vine
8th Jun 2009, 19:03
I like the animal idea. I would be much more scarred of a guard with a dog then just some plain old vanilla guard :P. I wouldn't abuse the Guard+dog thing to much though.

Yes, the occasional dog could work well and I think they would be a lot more fun than horses, imo. Thief is a stealth game and if there are dogs around (with a guard, or inside a mansion or grounds, for example) it will offer much more of a challenge to the player. We'll need to either avoid it, or entice it from its current position.
Hey, at least it provides an excuse for having an endless supply of deer legs now! I could just hear Garrett cynically saying, "Time to give a dog a bone... :rolleyes: "
:D

fraten
8th Jun 2009, 21:44
Why are you proposing horses? There are no horses in the Thief world. Just Burricks. Please add burricks to the poll.

MasterTaffer
8th Jun 2009, 21:51
Why are you proposing horses? There are no horses in the Thief world. Just Burricks. Please add burricks to the poll.
WRONG! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2OtumBTKlY)

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y242/Master_Taffer/HORSE.jpg

SlyGarrett
8th Jun 2009, 23:00
Why are you proposing horses? There are no horses in the Thief world. Just Burricks. Please add burricks to the poll.

Well if you want EVERYTHING to stay the same as always, why not just do a remake of Thief 1&2 with new graphics and sounds?
Some things should stay the same, i.e. the protagonist, atmosphere and gameplay - but I think we should make use of modern computer technology if possible.

Horses and watchdogs add great flavour to the atmosphere - they just shouldn't appear too often, but occasionally in the missions, because otherwise they would get boring or annoying!

Cats might be inserted as "living decoration", not so much as guardians.
Cats are not like dogs, they are stubborn and don't care about any creatures besides themselves. They have also more fear of humans then dogs, so they would rather run away in some dark corner when they see you.
However, it would be more pleasant to let the dogs be guardians and the cats some sort of interactive animals which prefer to be left alone!

Hypevosa
8th Jun 2009, 23:03
Master taffer... seriously, you rule.

Anyways, played house of the widow moira yesterday, and guess what happens when you get too close to the cat... it meows alot and runs and everyone in 30 feet turns and goes WTF NOISE?

So it's already there. I just wish I could have thrown a rat at the cat to keep it quiet (there were plenty of rats I had blackjacked in the basement...)

SlyGarrett
8th Jun 2009, 23:41
Anyways, played house of the widow moira yesterday, and guess what happens when you get too close to the cat... it meows alot and runs and everyone in 30 feet turns and goes WTF NOISE?

So it's already there. I just wish I could have thrown a rat at the cat to keep it quiet (there were plenty of rats I had blackjacked in the basement...)

Don't cats prefer living food which they have to catch themselves?

When I walk on a dark street at night, most cats avoid to come even near me - and even if I get to see one, it disappears in the darks without any noise!
Cats are an animal counterpart to Garrett. They prefer to stay in the shadows, to make no noise and to simply avoid stronger enemies. So there is no reason for the cats to scream "Meow!" when they see some stranger.

And besides, cats are smarter than dogs: They can't be corrupted by a stranger that easily with some piece of meat lunch!

Hypevosa
9th Jun 2009, 00:04
see there's a difference between a street cat and a spoiled house cat though. Heck I actually had a kitten from off the street walk over to play with me one time while I was on my college campus. It was right before winter though, so I found him a home with these 3 girls who named him Hercules.

Haha, that would be fun... Garrett finds himself being followed by a cat who likes him and can't get it to go away XD.

MasterTaffer
9th Jun 2009, 00:06
Don't cats prefer living food which they have to catch themselves?

When I walk on a dark street at night, most cats avoid to come even near me - and even if I get to see one, it disappears in the darks without any noise!
Cats are an animal counterpart to Garrett. They prefer to stay in the shadows, to make no noise and to simply avoid stronger enemies. So there is no reason for the cats to scream "Meow!" when they see some stranger.

And besides, cats are smarter than dogs: They can't be corrupted by a stranger that easily with some piece of meat lunch!

Being a cat owner, I can confirm this. My cat Samus doesn't take bribes.

Hypevosa
9th Jun 2009, 00:16
My cat rocky certainly does, and another cat named samus I knew did... XD it's funny to meet someone else who named their cat samus. Does yours eat cheetos too?

MasterTaffer
9th Jun 2009, 00:17
My cat rocky certainly does, and another cat named samus I knew did... XD it's funny to meet someone else who named their cat samus. Does yours eat cheetos too?

My cat eats dry food. She's a picky eater.

Hypevosa
9th Jun 2009, 00:25
Okay. The samus I knew was a gamer cat... she'd roll d 20's around if they got on the floor and she'd eat cheetos and stuff. I kinda miss her, her and her owner left for Chicago like 4 months ago.

There is a thread about giving guards individual personalities. Now they shouldn't be everywhere, but I can see that. We could also give the animals different personalities. You know, the house dog is easily distracted with food or a ball, and the guard dog doesn't give a damn, he just wants to bite your leg off...

jtr7
9th Jun 2009, 00:50
Cross-linking related threads:
http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=89368

SlyGarrett
9th Jun 2009, 06:16
see there's a difference between a street cat and a spoiled house cat though. Heck I actually had a kitten from off the street walk over to play with me one time while I was on my college campus. It was right before winter though, so I found him a home with these 3 girls who named him Hercules.

Haha, that would be fun... Garrett finds himself being followed by a cat who likes him and can't get it to go away XD.

There is indeed a difference between a spoiled house-cat of nowadays and a cat from earlier days - in medieval times cats would often live outside the house, where they would hunt rats and mice without any instructions.
They can live independently and stray through the streets - as loners, they don't need any human to survive!

However, there is no reason why a guard should pay much attention to a rat or a cat, which stray galore through the streets. No guard would pay attention to what the cat is doing, as cats get easily distracted by many trivial things - for example a bird or even a mere woollen string. There is no need for inventing a special "cat distraction system" under these circumstances!

Cats only should play a minor role for creating atmosphere - I would put most of the effort on dogs and horses if possible.

Hypevosa
9th Jun 2009, 06:30
the cats in moira's manor were always cozying themselves infront of fireplaces. And being on an island, probably weren't outside much. I say with security that they were lazy house cats. Maybe we could tell because the lazy house cats are the white fluffy ones, and the street cats are the thin dirty ones. XD

SlyGarrett
9th Jun 2009, 06:41
the cats in moira's manor were always cozying themselves infront of fireplaces. And being on an island, probably weren't outside much. I say with security that they were lazy house cats. Maybe we could tell because the lazy house cats are the white fluffy ones, and the street cats are the thin dirty ones. XD

Where many mice are, cats are held to catch them - in the streets of the City there are many rats, so necessarily there must also be some cats!

Normal cats prefer to stray outside most of the time, because of their hunting instincts.
And who says, that there aren't any rats or birds on an island?

Hypevosa
9th Jun 2009, 06:45
Oh there were rats, but not in the mansion, and not in the section I found the cats in. I know because I knocked all of them out :D

fraten
9th Jun 2009, 08:48
WRONG! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2OtumBTKlY)



Fine. So what? No need to dismiss Burricks.


Well if you want EVERYTHING to stay the same as always, why not just do a remake of Thief 1&2 with new graphics and sounds?...

Huh? Did I miss something? Who did say EVERYTHING should stay the same? Not me. I just want my Burrick. Nothing else.

Hypevosa
9th Jun 2009, 09:04
Burricks should come back, but they aren't ridable... though if they made a midget who rode a burrick I'd be laughing my ****ing ass of all the way home

SlyGarrett
9th Jun 2009, 09:30
Huh? Did I miss something? Who did say EVERYTHING should stay the same? Not me. I just want my Burrick. Nothing else.

So if you want "nothing else", why not create a mini-game where you can hold them as pets? :D

Just because there were some burricks in T1, this doesn't mean that they necessarily have to be inserted in T4.
Just because there were no horses in T1, this doesn't mean that they must not be in T4!

But I don't bother about burricks or cats at all - whether implanted in game or not.
Horses and guard dogs would be nice!

Alex50
9th Jun 2009, 10:24
The animals will recover game. It is themes for conversations of the inhabitants, alarm systems and ridiculous situations.
Street cats - are timid, they can be be to be caught and use for attractions dogs. Throw him near dog, cat runs to the nearest tree (or on the contrary to Garrett), the dog ë*åò and jumps near a tree, it attracts other dogs. There comes later guard and disperses dogs, they come back to usual patroling.
Home cats - timid or tender. Can be frightened and escape, dropping vase and other subjects. It alarm the guards. Or on the contrary follow for Garrett, asking meal and attention. Escape after impact of a boot or blacjack, making noise and dropping subjects.
The street dogs - vagrant, are timid, eat the rests of meal. Alarm system, can interest the guard - " what is it them so has frightened "
Court yard a dog - the usual dogs, react to a smell and kind of the thief. Easily distract by meal or other things.
The sentry dogs - specially trained dogs do not react to meal, but it is possible to distract by the cat (ancient instincts)
Spiders, Burricks - typical opponents with the concept TDP, TMA.
The horses, Cow, Elephants, Camels and others large animal - decorative functions.

fraten
10th Jun 2009, 14:08
So if you want "nothing else", why not create a mini-game where you can hold them as pets? :D

Got already one. It's called "Rupert". He's nice. :nut:


Just because there were some burricks in T1, this doesn't mean that they necessarily have to be inserted in T4.
Just because there were no horses in T1, this doesn't mean that they must not be in T4!
!

That's certainly true. Nevertheless I'd like to see some Burricks in T4. Just my humble opinion.

jtr7
22nd Jun 2009, 20:12
Horse burricks!
http://c1.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/37/s_fa5c6a075e754459a4abd9213bf331f0.gif

Just give 'em little arms, and manure beasts. :nut:



I forgot, there are camels in The City, too, but apparently not many, but they are available for purchase.

Hypevosa
22nd Jun 2009, 21:10
That picture is amazing XD

Acorn
23rd Jun 2009, 22:24
I proposed Horses and Horse Carts at the TTLG forum and someone mentioned that horse theft might make it more like Grand Theft Mediaeval. I really don't want Thief to turn into Grand Theft Auto. But I like the idea of horses being ridden and pulling carts through town. It looks more natural. Maybe make them either un-stealable or you get trapped by the guards instantly if you try to jack one or gallop. Maybe you could steal one if you went un-noticed and rode it at a walk to the buyer's location.. Or if it was part of a mission and suddenly horses are unlocked so you can ride one out of town.

People also complained citing morrowwind that riding horses cross-country is boring. i guess the travel time could be cut down a bit if the town is closer. Or the horse is just a link or vehicle to a link that leads to the load screen between towns.

Mission start: Garrett steals horse in the city, rides hell bent for leather and hits the edge of the city limits [load screen] cut to Garrett riding horse into new town. You then go to corral dismount and begin pursuing your mission. This doesn't have to happen every time, maybe for this one mission.

Hypevosa
24th Jun 2009, 02:49
if you're going to make horses impossible to use, then they might as well not be usable. Make it difficult instead is what I'm proposing:

1. make them extremely hard to steer (it's not your horse, you probably freaked it the hell out, and you don't have training in how to ride one = one hell of a time trying to control it).

2. Everyone with a bow now has a target who's easier to aim at since they don't have to worry about hitting pedestrians anymore...

3. No chance at stealth at all.

It would become what it should be... a quick escape, but not a viable means of quick or easy transportation.

massimilianogoi
24th Jun 2009, 05:01
Horse burricks!
http://c1.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/37/s_fa5c6a075e754459a4abd9213bf331f0.gif

Just give 'em little arms, and manure beasts. :nut:



I forgot, there are camels in The City, too, but apparently not many, but they are available for purchase.

bwhahahaahhah :lol:

TheEye
4th Jul 2009, 10:24
i looked at the statistics - this is NOT assassin's creed, garret is not a knight but a THIEF! if we are adding horses why don't we add mounts like in WoW while we are at it? it's just unnecessary - the cats, rats which gave away your presence were fine
now if they make thief 4 like AC - to travel to the other cities mentioned in the games - ok. still, i think The City is big enough for any player.

massimilianogoi
7th Jul 2009, 14:45
http://i32.tinypic.com/sbo4mf.jpg

http://i30.tinypic.com/dpixhz.jpg

Hypevosa
7th Jul 2009, 15:07
where the hell did you find those? I NEVER remember seeing horses in T3 o.O

massimilianogoi
7th Jul 2009, 15:18
I created them, just now!! X-DD

kabatta
7th Jul 2009, 15:19
Should there be horses in Thief 4? We have heard horses hooves and seen them depicted in TDP/Thief Gold, but horses have never actually appeared in the game. Horses bring alot of potential:

Use as a get away from mansions robbed far outside city walls where walking would be impractical
Maybe a mission specific loot item would be stealing a prized horse from some stable and selling it in the black market
Guards mounted on horses could present new challenges for the player since they can't be blackjacked from the street level (their horses could be spooked making them run off, etc.
The player could be given the option to use a horse, favoring a quick getaway over a stealthy one, allowing for them to put enough distance between them and their pursuers, then ditching the horse and finding cover as their pursuers run past.
Horse drawn carriages going to and from shops carrying goods or nobles.

In the very first game if you shift the difficulty to expert, one of the requirements states that you don't kill any pets (mainly animals in the level, the only ones being the spiders guarding a ring in a cavern in the sewers.. Later on at Ramirez's mansion you come across his 2 pet burricks. However, other than these 2 instances, domestic animals are few and far between. They also offer alot of potential as the horses do:

Cats or Dogs being new things to be maneuvered around and dispatched.
Cats are silent and sensitive to noise, meaning they would need to be watched out for. Can be distracted by rats or mice (dead or alive), yarn, ice cubes, and various other objects, instead of being just blackjacked or killed, plus, they don't speak like humans, so people would probably just think they wanted attention, pick them up and walk away with them... guards would probably kick em.
Dogs can smell someone and pursue them unless they clean off. However, are easily distracted by giving them meat (like those deer legs from TDP and TMA), or a bone. They also are much more able to communicate danger and intruders to humans after a little bit, unless you become their friend. Maybe pet him or play fetch or something.
Guard dogs can present a challenge when making an escape. Taking a dip through water to remove scent can be a reliable method, or leaving something more preferable off on another trail. They also cannot pursue what they can't catch. Let's see dogs and masters pursue a roof bound thief.
Burricks obviously pose a threat of gas attacks, and can burrow under walls (which could serve to your purposes to get into the back yard...)

Horses and domestic animals open alot of challenges and options for the thieving universe. So the simple question is should they be included? Should some and not others?

Vote now! O.O

This is just to be whether or not they should be included. Should Garrett have the ABILITY to ride them is another matter which you should post about how you feel.

Personally I think we should have the ability, though we should have little control or delayed controls, since it's neither our horse, nor are we trained to ride it, but it could provide a fast getaway from pursuing guards, and can always be ditched in favor of shadows. I don't think Garrett would bother buying a horse either because of the expense.
And if we ditch the horse outfront of our building or near it, the guards should case that area.


Maybe I can make a guard faint by throwing a rock at his head. Imagine this: a horse running panicked with a guard that moves in every direction possible. He can't fall because he is firmly attached to the horse. :lol: