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theBlackman
4th Jun 2009, 21:54
For those who haven't seen them here are the entire TGOLD briefings in order of appearance:

http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=89296


Post 15 this thread has the links to TMA briefings.

Lady_Of_The_Vine
4th Jun 2009, 22:05
*Sigh* Such sweet memories...

Everything about the early briefings is nothing short of GORGEOUS.
I hope EM can bring it all back to us. :)

Gillie
4th Jun 2009, 22:15
Oh they were so good to watch. It sure was good memories even if mine are newer sigh*. I love Gold. That was Thief. :thumb:
though I can not play it just now

Lady_Of_The_Vine
4th Jun 2009, 22:38
Oh they were so good to watch. It sure was good memories even if mine are newer sigh*. I love Gold. That was Thief. :thumb:
though I can not play it just now

Good to watch (video), good to listen to (music, sound effects and narrative) and good to read (prophetic quotes).
I highly recommend that all relatively new fans who have only played DS, should take the time to watch them all.

Thereafter, share your thoughts/opinions. :)

GmanPro
4th Jun 2009, 22:55
I liked the Metal Age ones better :p

theBlackman
4th Jun 2009, 22:56
Me too, but at the moment, TMA is not on my system. Although I could get the movies and edit them into a sequence also.

I'll think about it. Gman.

Lady_Of_The_Vine
4th Jun 2009, 22:58
I liked the Metal Age ones better :p

They were beautiful too, I agree.
Please feel free to add links in this thread for the benefit of the relatively new Taffers in our midst.
Thank you. :)

MasterTaffer
4th Jun 2009, 23:06
Old briefings are superior, indeed.

kaekaelyn
4th Jun 2009, 23:13
Yeah, what happened to those? Can't anyone draw a decent sepia-tone picture anymore?

Hypevosa
4th Jun 2009, 23:57
I'm playing TMA right now, and have the movie files... but running vista my computer won't play them by themselves. Wish I could help guys.

GmanPro
5th Jun 2009, 00:06
I have them all and my computer plays them. But my internet connection, sadly, is rather too sluggish to upload them all :(

The folder is 289 Mb's in total.

Gillie
5th Jun 2009, 00:22
I have Vista too. I don't know how to be honest. :o
Really not very tech at all. I have TMA installed to play fan missions, I have not worked at getting the sounds off again yet.

GmanPro
5th Jun 2009, 00:28
My computer, with XP, opens those videos and plays them with Windows Media Player. Version 11 I believe ... if someone with a faster connection feels like uploading them

Slither
5th Jun 2009, 02:03
It's funny how the first video implies that Garrett is brought into the Keepers' fold because of his "talent" somehow related to seeing a Keeper who wishes not to be seen. Garrett, being trained by those Keepers, presumably now has the same ability. It's a shame this Keeper ability was never mentioned again in any of the games. In fact, the Keepers completely lose their shadowy presence in the TDS when those Keeper assassins go prowling the streets at the end, whacking any hapless citizen who meanders by.

theBlackman
5th Jun 2009, 06:49
I'm editing them now. Will have them up tonight or tomorrow.

OK. Done. Here are the links for viewing.
TMA 1 (http://c1.ezfolk.com/index.php?t=player_video&s=Sage&band_id=567&video_id=926)

TMA 2 (http://c1.ezfolk.com/index.php?t=player_video&s=Sage&band_id=567&video_id=927)

TMA 3 (http://c1.ezfolk.com/index.php?t=player_video&s=Sage&band_id=567&video_id=928)

Here is the link to DL. http://c1.ezfolk.com/dusty/video.php

First post has links to the GOLD briefings.

Alex50
5th Jun 2009, 10:19
Why we like the old briefings?
For an atmosphere both inimitable music and image.
The initial citation prepares and creates interest. Be it conversation Garrett about forthcoming mission or foggy prophecies, there is a desire to study this world. For me it was more interesting to find the information, instead of gold. For example, in mission "Sword" when for the first time hear about Constantine, it would be desirable to find out about him more. Then to read his diary begins more interestingly.
The briefings give a relief of a history. It not transfers of the tasks - "come there", "steal it". In briefings we receive the answers, but these answers create even more questions. There is a desire more to find out about Hammers, Pagans, Mechanists and other. For us they the not so simply featureless soldiers with absence of an instinct of self-preservation.

Gabriel
5th Jun 2009, 18:10
Watched all of these again...Great atmosphere and art direction. This is what I'd like to see in Thief 4.

They even made sense watched from first to last, as they each referred to the previous one.

Pay attention to these, EM! :D

Direlord
5th Jun 2009, 19:46
I'm seeing a lot of references to T gold what is the difference between DP and gold?

theBlackman
5th Jun 2009, 23:48
If you have played TDP this will make sense. If not it will answer part of your question.

The Talismans for the Cathedral have been relocated.
The AI are different.
There are additional missions (Thieves Guild... TheMage Towers... The Opera house)
There is an additional level (Little Big Land) reached by a secret to be found in The Sword mission.

Rachie
6th Jun 2009, 02:31
I think it's fair to say we would all like to see the old briefings in Thief 4. :D

Lady_Of_The_Vine
6th Jun 2009, 09:13
I'm editing them now. Will have them up tonight or tomorrow.

OK. Done. Here are the links for viewing.
TMA 1 (http://c1.ezfolk.com/index.php?t=player_video&s=Sage&band_id=567&video_id=926)

TMA 2 (http://c1.ezfolk.com/index.php?t=player_video&s=Sage&band_id=567&video_id=927)

TMA 3 (http://c1.ezfolk.com/index.php?t=player_video&s=Sage&band_id=567&video_id=928)

Here is the link to DL. http://c1.ezfolk.com/dusty/video.php

First post has links to the GOLD briefings.

Thank you for these! :cool:

Herr_Garrett
6th Jun 2009, 10:28
If they could give us something like this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUMrHGxvL5Y&feature=rec-fresh+div), that'd be fine with me.

citywolfdreams
9th Jun 2009, 05:51
I *love* the style of those briefings. It was such a disappointment to me when TDS took them away (one of many). Then I discovered T2X (with the same type of briefings, gameplay, everything), and it was like falling back in love... :-)

Lady_Of_The_Vine
13th Jun 2009, 20:59
Yes, many of the fan missions have similar briefings and made our lives wotth living again. :D

CurtX
13th Jun 2009, 21:15
Reviewing these again makes in apparent how the Thief games gradually progress the story over many missions. That is much better than most games nowadays that have few missions and reveal the whole story much too early. Games are much too short now. In TDP, we weren't even introduced to a primary antagonist until around the 5th mission. The early missions were essential in building the atmosphere which is a necessity.

Nate
13th Jun 2009, 21:34
Good times!

Psychomorph
13th Jun 2009, 23:40
I have to say that I absolutely LOVED the original briefings as hell, so minimalistic, but does what it does better than anything else could do. Great decision.

I was watching a documentary few days ago, about Chinas history and they used alot of black/white drawings to illustrate what was told. I noticed how enjoyable it was and had to think about Thief and how nicely Thief did it, plus the sound and music.

Please get that style back.

jtr7
13th Jun 2009, 23:51
They were done so well, I'd love to see The City of the new game resembling it in design, but fleshed-out. The scenes depicted could now be played out in-game, and the long lines of sight, as seen looking down The River, with riverboats and steep riverbanks covered in buildings, the obelisk and other monuments, bridges, lights strung across, balconies, distant mountains, watchtowers... It's technically possible to begin to see this now.

Roughly six images per briefing, with the sound effects and minimalist music, the ominous quote, and a lot of story was told, and the mood was rich.

theBlackman
3rd Jul 2009, 07:00
Hopefully this will reactivate the thread.

ToMegaTherion
3rd Jul 2009, 08:26
Since I haven't yet said it in this thread, and it's always worth saying: the style of a sequel should follow the style of the previous episodes unless there is an obvious improvement to be made. I doubt there is an obvious improvement to be made here, so... old briefings!

FriendlyStranger
3rd Jul 2009, 08:37
Yeah the old briefings fit perfectly into the theme of the game - Garrett talking to you with a low voice, as if he was telling you a secret. The mood was very relaxed. The quite cool citations from diverse holy scriptions etc... I also hope the old parchment-look returns. Like seen in the Breifing of Bafford's, Bonehoard etc. Not too many colors, not too much too make out.

theBlackman
3rd Jul 2009, 09:02
To the many of you who have enjoyed the edited briefing videos, thanks for enjoying revisiting the game without the agony of fast forwarding through the missions to see them.

To those who are seeing these for the first time, as ToMegaTherion and FriendlyStranger have said, the old briefing format fits the game atmosphere and really can't be improved upon.

They can be "gussied" up with fancy video treatment, but that would merely be eyecandy and would more than likely destroy the atmosphere.

To the rest who have posted in concurrence for keeping the style. Thanks for your "vote" and lets all hope that the new game will come close to the OMG of the first two (three if you count GOLD).

I deliberately made the links downloadable for those who want to keep a copy handy.

I still get a great deal of enjoyment replaying the briefings now and then. True, I still play the missions and the FM derivatives, but to sit and watch the entire string of briefings, as I would a short film, still is a treat.

I don't think that the character of the briefings could possibly be improved. Sepia static graphics notwithstanding.

Grumpy Old Man
3rd Jul 2009, 19:42
That was indeed a thing I missed in Thief 3. Although Stephen Russel has an excellent voice for briefings, all of the aforementioned stuff makes it so rich.

The only thing that could be better is a better story and the animation. But that's a given after several years of time.

theBlackman
3rd Jul 2009, 19:59
WARNING: Due to circumstances that are really not important enough to discuss, the site that is currently hosting the videos may shut down. Therefore if you want to have access to them in the future, either download them or, if someone has the space, DL them and have them available through your own site.

They are downloadable at present. So be on notice that the links may vanish at any moment, and if you want them now is the time.

I regret the circumstances, but manure happens. :)

GO TO OUR VIDEOS HERE: http://c1.ezfolk.com/dusty/video.php

jtr7
3rd Jul 2009, 20:44
...........................

xDarknessFallsx
4th Jul 2009, 00:12
theBlackman - I can see the vidz, but can't seem to download them. Maybe that capability has been taken away now.

At any rate, one thing that bothers me so far in my replay of TDS (which I've indefinitely put on hold due to boredom and frustration), is that the mission briefings (that you *scroll* through the text on (ahem)), are spoken very quickly by Russell. Too rushed; almost like Garrett thinks I have one foot out the door and I have better things to do than to listen to his story, rather than it being calm, patient, enthralling storytelling that sucks you in. Compare the TDS briefings to T2 cutscene movies and you'll see what I mean. The pacing in T1/T2 is very good, but probably mainly because there are cutscenes movies associated, where the voice needs to be in sync with the movie. I have a feeling, though, that Garrett being on speed in TDS is a result of Ion Storm clipping out the spaces fo dead air in the mission briefing voice files, or increasing the rate of Garrett's voice playback (without affecting pitch) by 10% or something. I hope EM and Stephen Russell understand that we enjoy his storytelling, and there's no need to rush it. Be patient, like you're telling us a story or thinking inside.. like in T2. The TDS way almost makes it sound like Garrett's simply reading a newspaper out loud.

Also, character voices in TDS (all of them, including Garrett's in briefings) don't seem very full/warm/rich. Instead, they are very crisp and itchy. Not sure how else to explain it. Maybe because of file compression or something? I hope T4 brings voice audio that is well equalized and pleasant/realistic/rich/full/warm to listen to, even if it means hogging up more space on our hard drives. Please do this in the artistic T2-like cutscenes I presume you'll build ;) , and also the rest of the game.

theBlackman
4th Jul 2009, 00:31
To download go to the EZFOLK in the SIG below. or try this. http://c1.ezfolk.com/dusty/video.php

On the left of the page top center under the photo is OUR VIDEOS. If you use that instead of the direct link. You can DL them with the DOWN arrow button that is next to the clip.

The links here are only to the PLAY the video button.

Sorry about that.

jtr7
4th Jul 2009, 00:33
...........................

xDarknessFallsx
4th Jul 2009, 02:12
Exactly, jtr7.

For the TDS style of briefings, I'm kind've always thinking "hurry up already" ...and then read the briefing myself and then continue. But I only do this because of the lack of cutscene movies.

So, Ion Storm managed to make a great voice actor be someone I don't really care to listen to during briefings. Without cutscenes, it's all Ion Storm could do, so I kind've understand. But I'll be very unhappy, as will theBlackman, if they do it again in T4 :) I hope T4 has cutscenes and gives proper cadence. Seems impossible to NOT do this, but wanted to explicitly say. I would've thought there were other Thief "givens" that Ion Storm couldn't have messed up, but some of us were proved wrong :(

xDarknessFallsx
4th Jul 2009, 02:21
To download go to the EZFOLK in the SIG below. or try this. http://c1.ezfolk.com/dusty/video.php

On the left of the page top center under the photo is OUR VIDEOS. If you use that instead of the direct link. You can DL them with the DOWN arrow button that is next to the clip.

The links here are only to the PLAY the video button.

Sorry about that.

Oh, no apologies needed. I actually had done that -- I can see the Thief vids, and also the down arrow button -- but clicking the down arrow takes me to http://ezfolk.com/audio/ ... looks like some sort of home page. And I don't see any Thief-related things here.

So either I'm not seeing where to go to from the ezFolk.com/audio page, or you need to be a registered member there -- which I don't really wanna do.

It's okay. Thanks for providing this great service of showing the vids! I have viewed them, and love seeing them in succession like that. Since I don't think I had played more than 15% of TDP before, it was nice to see those cutscenes.

theBlackman
4th Jul 2009, 02:48
I apologize. I guess the webmaster changed the DL to work only with registered users. It used to be free without registration.

As I never try to DL my own stuff, I did not notice the change.

SORRY.

jtr7
7th Aug 2009, 04:00
...........................

xDarknessFallsx
8th Aug 2009, 00:14
Yeah, I wasn't sure about the TMA cutscenes when I first saw them, I was like WTF? (I played TMA first in the series.) I thought the artwork could've been better, etc. But then pretty quickly after that, probably after playing the first mission, I loved them. They had character. Style. An "x" factor quality that sucked me in.

If T4 uses CGI models, screenshots from levels, flawless artwork where characters are GQ perfect or perfectly proportioned, full color, I will be sad. All of that creative style in T1 and T2 just tossed to the side in favor of the CG-ified cutscenes that every other game does? Not thanks.

I liked the 'occasional' two- or three-frame animated effect of some of the sepia toned slides; and the very occasional full color animated cutscenes. If T4 does away with these ingredients that make me love the T1/T2 cutscenes so much, and instead has more "let's show off what we can do and show how perfect we can make things look," then, well... I will sigh every time I see a cutscene.

Squid
8th Aug 2009, 06:06
I'm currently running through TDS on my XBox 360, and the lack of briefings is painful, to say the least. This was such a loss for TDS.

For the Devs: Bring back these style briefings. If you want the game to stay true to it's roots, the briefings are essential, as they help set up the mood and atmosphere of the game.

Squid

Vae
8th Aug 2009, 10:17
It's sad that we even have to talk about this. The old briefings are absolutely essential to the essence of THIEF.

xDarknessFallsx
8th Aug 2009, 21:05
Yep. It's very sad we have to talk about this. I can't speak for everyone, but TDS sure has me worrying about things I don't think I'd normally need to worry or speak up about. (For example: Dear EM, please make Thief 4 a sneaking game where you play the role of a thief with shadows that actually work and not an MMORPG where you play the role of a guard protecting a castle.) :D

After TDS, it seems anything is possible. It gave me a mindset of "It's better to be safe than sorry," and so everything is up for discussion. Heh.

theBlackman
23rd Aug 2009, 04:41
I rebuilt the website. Try Downloading the videos again, if you want them. If it won't take, then go to www.ezfolk.com and log in as a "member" then go to my site and retry the video DL.

They should DL without a registration, but if not, get a "member" account. That should do it.

If you do go to DL, then use the Video button UNDER the photo. The right button is a player, the top toolbar button a catalog of the entire EZ members videos.

Sorry for the confusion.

Fatherwoodsie
23rd Aug 2009, 05:51
i love the old sketched briefings. like freindlystranger said. you couldnt really make out too much from the sketches. but it was enough so when you actually come upon a spot you saw in the briefing, you'll be like, hey theres that spot i saw in the briefing!

theBlackman
23rd Sep 2009, 19:32
The website has been revamped and all briefings are now available for viewing or download.

Aceyalone7777
23rd Sep 2009, 20:51
Still, black-white sketches in 2010 could look bland and empty.

Make the colorful. Just like the concept arts. Or like some static moments from the videos Thief had!

jtr7
23rd Sep 2009, 22:54
Sepia, Noir, more detailed paintings with just a little animation like Garrett's greedy fingers in B04.avi for Framed, pan and zoom in on details or out to show the larger setting, no problem.

Psychomorph
3rd Jan 2010, 00:36
Love the original briefing cutscenes. So minimalistic with such a great effect. This i an absolute must have, you hear?! I don't mind 3D cutscenes that show some of the events and actions short before or after the playable mission, but the original briefing is a must.

Nate
3rd Jan 2010, 01:32
Yup, and as a BONUS they are MUCH CHEAPER to make than the standard cutscenes we see in today's games.

xDarknessFallsx
4th Jan 2010, 01:59
Still, black-white sketches in 2010 could look bland and empty.

Make the colorful. Just like the concept arts. Or like some static moments from the videos Thief had!

I disagree. They'll be as bland in 2010 as they were in 1998: not at all. Color television has been out for decades, as have color video games. There's not much difference between 1998 and 2010 in terms of the apparent need to use color. It's purely an artistic decision and I appreciate the vibe it gives -- and break from the monotony of every other video game -- to have them like T1 and T2. It's one of those X factor things that makes me appreciate Thief and I hope they come back. Save the color cutscenes for every 3 or 4 missions, in the higher production value ones, just like in T2. It helps inject just enough color into the game.

Nate
4th Jan 2010, 03:01
Interestingly, Sins of a Solar Empire did away with the traditional cut scenes and went with artistic screens reminiscent of Thief. Sins of a Solar Empire has done very well for itself....and nobody cared that the game wasn't packed with $200 000 worth of lifelike movie type cut scenes.

Oon Kuka Oon
4th Jan 2010, 17:48
Ink-on-parchment briefings and suitable quotes! In Briefings Garrett tells what he knows of the target and explains his plans. Cutscenes only when the plot goes on out of mission - and keep Garrett as protagonist; the player sees the world through his narrow view - never tell anything Garrett can't know.

xDarknessFallsx
4th Jan 2010, 18:32
What do you mean by "suitable quotes"? I'm hoping you mean the T1/T2 style of quotes with the short cinematic in the background and not the TDS style where it gives you game tips and boring quotes while there's a load meter bar going across the screen. I didn't like how TDS just tossed quotes at you left and right with no rhyme or reason, rotated through the short list of them, and gave you game tips as if you're playing on a console or Thief for the first time.

I hope there are no load meter bars in T4. And if there are, I hope they're not done in the cheap/uncreative TDS style.

TheJoker
4th Jan 2010, 19:04
I agree with most of the lot here, seeing the cutscene-briefings from the old games just makes me want to play em all again and again and again... I'm not afraid of changes, but well the TDS way of doing it was really bad. I hope you devs will bring back that nostalgic feeling again :)

Oon Kuka Oon
4th Jan 2010, 19:50
What do you mean by "suitable quotes"? I'm hoping you mean the T1/T2 style of quotes with the short cinematic in the background and not the TDS style where it gives you game tips and boring quotes while there's a load meter bar going across the screen. I didn't like how TDS just tossed quotes at you left and right with no rhyme or reason, rotated through the short list of them, and gave you game tips as if you're playing on a console or Thief for the first yime.

I hope there are no load meter bars in T4. And if there are, I hope they're nit dine in the cheap/uncreative TDS style.

The ones in TDP and TMA they were great add to briefings.

Lady_Of_The_Vine
4th Jan 2010, 23:32
I agree with most of the lot here, seeing the cutscene-briefings from the old games just makes me want to play em all again and again and again... I'm not afraid of changes, but well the TDS way of doing it was really bad. I hope you devs will bring back that nostalgic feeling again :)

I couldn't have said it better myself. :thumb:

HeyLight!
16th Mar 2010, 15:56
Look: we might all be complaining about 3rd person view, or shiny blue loot, or even those appalling climbing gloves.

But do you know what really grinds my gears about DS?

That's right, it's the fact that they they got rid of those incredible watercolour (or whatever it was, I'm no artist) sketches. Garret no longer could used his cynical sense of humor and less than 'up for it' attitude to emerge us into the story.

I could never put myself in the Master Thief's boots just by reading at some boring neon blue text that had no black comedy or interesting tips.

Please bring back the pre-mission drawings; without them I just can't get into character!

What do you guys think about the re-inclusion of these sketchy pieces of pure art?

Also, how about mentioning your personal favourites? Mine has to be 'Ambush!'. The look on Sammy's face gives me the creeps, and I love that last line, "Fortunately, I always keep an Ace up my sleeve."

Psychomorph
16th Mar 2010, 16:33
Viktorias deadly merging-vines struck again!


The original Thief briefing is not a "would be cool" matter, it's an undeniable MUST! (I think I speak for everybody)

Oh, and:
http://www.popmatters.com/images/blog_art/c/cutscenes.jpg

:D

Tom Pladgett
16th Mar 2010, 17:23
I absolutely agree that the stylistic cutscenes in the games were made of pure win. The ones in T:DP were especially well directed. I still remember the eery atmosphere of the cutscene where Garrett delivers the Eye to Constantine, and what hell breaks loose afterwards. And in the ending animation there's the the melancholy sight of a statue holding a cog, followed by footprints in the snow...

The ones in TMA weren't half as good in my opinion... the longest of them basically consisting of Garrett and Victoria having an exposition chat.

The hand-sketched mission briefings, as well, were both athmospheric and story-appropriate. You just can't get that with CGI.

theBlackman
25th Mar 2010, 07:04
WARNING

I am about to remove the videos of the original briefings from the EZ site listed in the first post.

If you want to DL them do so before Friday night. Use the VIDEO button under the photo, and the little arrow on the right bottom of the video screen.

Nate
25th Mar 2010, 20:39
Hi theBlackman.....did you ever post the 'joke' intro from the first game anywhere? I'd love to see that one again (the childish drawings combined with Garrett's serious voice over = priceless!)

jtr7
25th Mar 2010, 22:59
The Blooper Reel? It doesn't look like it. (http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=89296)

Here it is on YouTube, for a quick fix:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obQenzkD5Cw

theBlackman
26th Mar 2010, 06:35
No, I did not do the blooper mission. Just the regular briefings for TDP/GOLD and TMA.

Sorry.

Maybe I should just put them on YouTube.

Nate
26th Mar 2010, 13:42
Awesome! Ahhhhh...the memories.

misph1re
31st May 2010, 06:45
Take a city like this picture, and make it come alive for us to explore (first person view):

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1276/1320287889_1093a4774b_o.png

Fatherwoodsie
31st May 2010, 18:02
sure, but not in a "farcry" like way where AI's and all other conditions are set by a hairtrigger invisible line that you inevitabley cross.

Tryst
31st May 2010, 19:58
If they could give us something like this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUMrHGxvL5Y&feature=rec-fresh+div), that'd be fine with me.
I was half expecting 47 to be in one of those pictures. It's the first ting I thought of when I heard the music start.

Lady_Of_The_Vine
3rd Jun 2010, 23:35
The original Thief briefing is not a "would be cool" matter, it's an undeniable MUST! (I think I speak for everybody)


You do. :thumb:

jtr7
3rd Jun 2010, 23:38
I was glad to hear the core team loves the old movies, too. I just hope they don't impose change for change's sake, rather than bring out the best qualities of the style.

Ubersuntzu
15th Jun 2010, 11:16
Reviewing these again makes in apparent how the Thief games gradually progress the story over many missions. That is much better than most games nowadays that have few missions and reveal the whole story much too early. Games are much too short now. In TDP, we weren't even introduced to a primary antagonist until around the 5th mission. The early missions were essential in building the atmosphere which is a necessity.

I agree. In order for conflict to have any meaning, you really have to see characters in their natural environment before you bring in an antagonist.

Lady_Of_The_Vine
25th Jun 2010, 13:27
Devs, please bring back the art style of the old briefings.... they were AWESOME! :flowers:

Myth
16th Jul 2010, 13:13
I can't remember how many times i've just looked up the Bafford intro just to hear "I have a simple job planned for this evening" while looking at the sepia tone drawings with a bit of noir and gothic feel to them, while listening to the infamous Thief soundeffects in the background.

Old style missions, old style stealth, old style light and sound propagation, old style mission briefings, and good ol' Garret and Stephen. That's what i wants.

xDarknessFallsx
16th Jul 2010, 16:53
Me too! I love watching the old movies from time to time. And hearing the sounds & music coupled with and timed perfectly with the striking visuals.

Voodoo
16th Jul 2010, 20:20
Must say a big part of me is drawn to the feel of Thief 1 and in some part Thief 2 I cant lie I do miss them. "Sigh" I really hope those elements are hugely implemented and integrated int the upcoming title.

As im sure we all do people.

The Atrophy
17th Jul 2010, 01:18
Despite the fact that they may have just been made due to the difficulty of making fully animated cut scenes for each level (I don't know that for a fact however, just going on a whim), the old briefings had a unique style that still trumps briefings in any game since. They had a certain... "I don't know what" factor that made them more interesting than a regular cutscene. Maybe it was because the drawings were somewhat crude, so instead you really focused on what Garrett (or Zaya if you count T2X) was saying, which really helped with the developpment of the character. Plus the images perfectly complemented what they were saying.

jtr7
17th Jul 2010, 01:25
Dan Thron said the silhouettes were a time-saving choice, but it obviously works perfectly with a character that can effectively become one with the shadows and whom never having the same visage is a plus. It's one of many choices, though made for one reason, really paid off and added much to the iconography. With good voice-talent and gentle physical performance, we don't need to see the expressions on the faces until a different kind of emotional cue is called upon. With subtlety and restrained movement of persons and camera, the impact of big movement and sound is heightened and unforgettable. Coiled contained energy over longer periods makes the release much more startling and powerful.

The Atrophy
17th Jul 2010, 01:49
Okay, thats what I suspected. But yes, it really helped you get into the character's head. I'm playing through T2X right now and I'm still very impressed on how well they made the briefings feel like the old ones (despite me liking Garrett alot more).

jtr7
17th Jul 2010, 01:51
Yes. The love for the games came through as they were forced to be different (for legal reasons), and also tried new things they didn't have to. They really respected the official material, even when they sometimes also parodied it, and disagreed with it. Curiously, more people have thought that T2X was official and canonical, than realized TDS was made by mostly the same people as the older titles--even adoring TDS fans think TDS wasn't made by many ex-LGS, unwittingly admitting how different it was in a bad way, while saying it captured the same spirit (!).

The Atrophy
17th Jul 2010, 01:54
I never noticed the grave stone in the catacombs level that said "RIP LGS" until today. It made me smile.

jtr7
17th Jul 2010, 02:02
Yeah. :cool:

The Atrophy
17th Jul 2010, 07:06
Curiously, more people have thought that T2X was official and canonical, than realized TDS was made by mostly the same people as the older titles--even adoring TDS fans think TDS wasn't made by many ex-LGS, unwittingly admitting how different it was in a bad way, while saying it captured the same spirit (!).

I think T2X is one of the most successful "passion projects" I have ever seen. It gives more backstory to the events of T2 and despite the lack of Garrett the story is pretty interesting. I feel like the story established in the game is a true part of the Thief fiction despite the fact that it wasn't "official". I think it would actually be better for new players to play it in between TDP and TMA, as it gives more insight into some parts of the TMA story (for instance- Cavador becoming a mechanist and Truart giving Karras people to become servants).

EDIT: Okay, so it had been years since I had played through T2x that, so I had forgotten the last level. Very well done how it ties into the Blackmail mission in TMA. Was it just me, or does Garrett run by the hedge?

Rockn-Roll
2nd Aug 2010, 05:18
Those briefings told us who Garret was...who we were playing. In many ways we become actors, so we need the stage set or else it just becomes a stab & grab with nice scenery. We need to hear Garret's voice...the struggle with his past and his need to guide the future.

Asadar
2nd Aug 2010, 13:02
Yep, the old briefings need to come back. ;):thumb:

Jon Antilles
6th Sep 2010, 19:28
Yep agree to all my previous posters, the old briefings were best, Thi4f shouldn't have pre rendert or ingame cutscenes. the old ones were one of THE special things that set thief apart from all other games, that tried to be stealthy, its part of the atmosphere

AlexOfSpades
8th Sep 2010, 16:33
The old briefings looked like "sketches" that Garrett did on previous "scouting" missions.

It was immersive, because it looked like old paper, like if it was something truly from that time.

I dont know how, but it had some "magic" on it that made it so special.

We truly need them back <3

Just to imagine me seeing the THIEF 4 screen and pressing New Game -> Normal (no Easy difficulty, because its never easy to be a master thief) and then some prayers from the Hammerittes, metaphores from what was about to happen, and the sketches... and... Garrett's voice..

I shiver in anxiety! The briefings are a must, Devs!

Ultra Taffer
21st Sep 2010, 05:06
Those original Thief briefings were magnificent.
I am currently replaying TG after 4 years and realized something only after reading this thread...
Many other games I have played have their briefings in the form of a cutscene using higher quality graphics (smoother, higher resolution) than the gameplay itself.
In those games, as soon as the briefing ends and I look at the graphics quality of the actual gameplay, it feels like a "let down".
Not so with the old style Thief briefings. Their graphics were so different to the gameplay graphics, there was no let down at all.
I think this is yet another reason why those briefings just "worked".
Please devs, use the old style briefings for Thief IV.

Lady_Of_The_Vine
24th Sep 2010, 08:43
They definitely wre MAGNIFICENT. I certainly hope this style of mission introduction and storytelling will return in the new game.

sheff
28th Sep 2010, 03:59
Just got through watching the briefings+cutscenes from Thief:DP, and started trolling for more information on Thief IV. I had to register to show my support for the old briefing style. Regardless of what technical or manpower difficulties required they be done like that, they were AWESOME. They created a unique style to the game, which has never been duplicated. The spooky sound effects, occasional dirty electronic music, hammer/pagan quotes, and of course the sepia drawings slowly twisting around :) They left many things up to the imagination, sort of like an old radio show or a story around the camp fire. Please keep them. The Thief 3 briefings were a major let down.

Now, to dig up Thief Gold and TMA.....

Lady_Of_The_Vine
28th Sep 2010, 22:01
Just got through watching the briefings+cutscenes from Thief:DP, and started trolling for more information on Thief IV. I had to register to show my support for the old briefing style. Regardless of what technical or manpower difficulties required they be done like that, they were AWESOME. They created a unique style to the game, which has never been duplicated. The spooky sound effects, occasional dirty electronic music, hammer/pagan quotes, and of course the sepia drawings slowly twisting around :) They left many things up to the imagination, sort of like an old radio show or a story around the camp fire. Please keep them. The Thief 3 briefings were a major let down.

Now, to dig up Thief Gold and TMA.....

What a splendid introduction! Welcome to the forum! :wave:

jtr7
28th Sep 2010, 23:25
Agreed! :cool: :thumb:

theBlackman
29th Sep 2010, 00:27
Maybe I should put the edited videos back up.

Vae
29th Sep 2010, 00:30
:thumb:...Good idea, my friend.

Psychomorph
29th Sep 2010, 01:05
They left many things up to the imagination, sort of like [...] a story around the camp fire.
Nice analogy.

Never before was less more than in Thief.

jtr7
29th Sep 2010, 01:10
Yes! :thumb:

Asadar
29th Sep 2010, 18:48
Entirely right. And welcome in the forum sheff. :group_hug:

theBlackman
30th Sep 2010, 12:08
I have started to make the original briefings (edited to a running video) back up.

Here is GOLD 1 and GOLD 2 for DL or viewing.

http://c1.ezfolk.com/download.php?band_id=567&video_id=1324&mode=video
Gold 1

http://c1.ezfolk.com/download.php?band_id=567&video_id=1325&mode=video
Gold 2

I will have the third section of GOLD up tomorrow followed by TMA which, with luck, will be available for viewing or DL the same day, or Friday at the latest.

The links above are for the DL.

If you just want to view them, go to the first link in my sig below. Hit the video button under my photo. Then select the video you want to view.

Vae
30th Sep 2010, 12:51
Thanks tBM, I appreciate the effort...:)

Asadar
30th Sep 2010, 17:57
Hey, big thanks Blackman ! ;)

My internet is a bit too bad for the moment, but I appreciate and hope to download it soon. :)

I love so much the Thief cutscenes :flowers:

theBlackman
30th Sep 2010, 22:23
Here is the complete list.

http://c1.ezfolk.com/download.php?band_id=567&video_id=1324&mode=video
Gold 1

http://c1.ezfolk.com/download.php?band_id=567&video_id=1325&mode=video
Gold 2

http://c1.ezfolk.com/download.php?band_id=567&video_id=1326&mode=video
Gold 3

http://c1.ezfolk.com/download.php?band_id=567&video_id=1327&mode=video
TMA 1

http://c1.ezfolk.com/download.php?band_id=567&video_id=1328&mode=video
TMA 2

http://c1.ezfolk.com/download.php?band_id=567&video_id=1334&mode=video
TMA 3

The links above are for the DL.

If you just want to view them, go to the first link in my sig below. Hit the video button under my photo. Then select the video you want to view.

TheJoker
1st Oct 2010, 00:30
Awesome stuff man, thanks a lot :)

xDarknessFallsx
1st Oct 2010, 02:10
Won't T3's just be MS Word documents? just kidding ;) Thanks for posting

theBlackman
1st Oct 2010, 07:43
Here is the link to the third series for TMA.

Back up to here: http://forums.eidosgames.com/showpost.php?p=1502617&postcount=101
To get the full set of 6. Read down to the links and the information if you just want to view the videos.

jtr7
1st Oct 2010, 08:54
:cool::thumb:

theBlackman
1st Oct 2010, 09:26
:cool::thumb:

Thanks jtr but, not to be picky, isn't that "Dread pirate WESLEY"? :D

TheJoker
5th Feb 2011, 16:04
I just happened to stumble across this video and for some reason I came to think of the Thief mission briefings after seeing the first minute of this clip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYqJfbwQ6Qk

Don't mind the content of the video, but check out the cool editing and how it's done. Wouldn't some parts of that video would actually, with a more steampunk/medieval and artistic touch look awesome as mission briefings? There are some stuff that actually reminds me a bit about the cool mission briefings we had in T1/T2 that really defined those games. Those briefings are 10 years old now, they still look great but I guess that stepping it up a bit now that it's possible would look quite neat?

Gabriel
5th Feb 2011, 20:14
I think that video is very nicely done. It looks like a Thief 2 briefing evolved.

I certainly wouldn't mind if Thief 4 would have that kind of style to its briefings!

jtr7
5th Feb 2011, 22:18
It's pretty much the same technique Thron developed after TMA, but with even more computer animation.
Neverwinter Nights: Hordes of the Underdark
Thief: Deadly Shadows

I prefer the hand-painted and hand-manipulated look with live-actor silhouettes and rotoscoping than the obvious use of computer-calculated animation between key-frames, though. I love how his stuff looks with the higher resolutions and less compression, and when it looks like paint is getting nudged around, rather than the flattening of 2D images painted to look more 3D sliding over each other. This could be helped by having the edges blended to look like all were painted on one canvas, with the image flowing through the paint.

TheJoker
5th Feb 2011, 23:48
Oh allright, cool.

I'm not sure what I prefer really, but rotoscoping is awesome. (:

keeperr
11th Nov 2011, 00:20
*Sigh* Such sweet memories...

Everything about the early briefings is nothing short of GORGEOUS.
I hope EM can bring it all back to us. :)


Why we like the old briefings?
For an atmosphere both inimitable music and image.
The initial citation prepares and creates interest. Be it conversation Garrett about forthcoming mission or foggy prophecies, there is a desire to study this world. For me it was more interesting to find the information, instead of gold. For example, in mission "Sword" when for the first time hear about Constantine, it would be desirable to find out about him more. Then to read his diary begins more interestingly.
The briefings give a relief of a history. It not transfers of the tasks - "come there", "steal it". In briefings we receive the answers, but these answers create even more questions. There is a desire more to find out about Hammers, Pagans, Mechanists and other. For us they the not so simply featureless soldiers with absence of an instinct of self-preservation.

Says it all.

I remember Installing INDEO CODEC 5 repeatedy to make the cutscenes work on my XP machine. It is supplied on the Thief disk it may or may not work, but is free to download the most up to date one which does work. I couldnt say weather this will make it work for you all on vista/win7. GL

All the thief cutscenes are on youtube and are labled relatively well. As well as a cutscene at the start of every mission, there are several which have one at the end of a mission aswell.
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=thief+cutscene&aq=0&oq=thief+cut

Lady_Of_The_Vine
14th Dec 2011, 21:20
This is one of the best threads on the forum, imo. :)

Vae
14th Dec 2011, 22:08
Yeah, it's too bad that everyone but the devs have commented on it...:(

Lady_Of_The_Vine
14th Dec 2011, 23:41
Sure, but we all know the team are not permitted to comment... so it was never expected that they would do so.

Vae
15th Dec 2011, 00:34
Yes, I know...'Tis a shame they've been so unnecessarily handcuffed by their masters...:(

Lady_Of_The_Vine
15th Dec 2011, 00:42
Tis a shame they've been so unnecessarily handcuffed by their masters...:(

You consider a non-disclosure agreement to be unnecessary?

Vae
15th Dec 2011, 00:48
Do you consider a non-disclosure agreement to be unnecessary?

Of course not...:confused:

If allowed, a dev is perfectly capable of interacting without disclosing project information.

Lady_Of_The_Vine
15th Dec 2011, 00:52
If allowed, a dev is perfectly capable of interacting without disclosing project information.

Maybe they already lurk in the shadows... but you can't see them. :p

jtr7
15th Dec 2011, 01:21
.........................

Lady_Of_The_Vine
15th Dec 2011, 01:27
Which is pointless to us until we see if it mattered or not.
Exactly. :)


"You consider a non-disclosure agreement to be unnecessary?"
I do not know how you can even come to this conclusion, ever, at all.
It was never a conclusion, it was a question. :p


It's frightening. It really is. Hope/Faith-shattering conclusions about our words, right there. No exaggeration. No joke. I really hope not one dev ever follows the same processing paths you do when you come up with entirely scary and false extrapolations of our wishes. You scare me so much with that stuff. No one's stating that, for the umpteenth time. God I hope you aren't steering devs away from our messages, especially since they can't see our censored posts.

LOL, try not to be frightened and perhaps try not to be so serious? :D

keeperr
15th Dec 2011, 03:56
Yeah, it's too bad that everyone but the devs have commented on it...:(

I think its amazing not one person put a negative comment on the T1+T2 mission intro movies and not one person has said they actually enjoyed reading Garretts words and manually scrolling through the text as he spoke.

TDS did make it sound rushed, and I'll give them that they had Stephen Russell but with a very limited (i want to say) success, or with less usage/immersion because of lack of cutscenage. Might as well have been anyone. There is no atmosphere in reading a script - thats being read to you by Garrett, that doesn't really sound like him no more. I couldn't describe it properly before but someone said it was speeded up, and that i think is true. Someone said in T1+2 it was like he was telling you his inner thoughts, like it was a secret, and T3 put it like he was just on his way out the door every time churning out some chain of events with some glimmer of story.

Those first custscenes, from the first minute i watched the first cutscene, was love. Throughout my entire time playing T1+T2 I did not realise they were using silhouettes sp? untill after I finished the second game, and found the making of vid. I did suspect, but just didn't 'see' it. Flawless. The sounds, the views, the ilustrations, the animation, the colour it is all perfect!
Since then I have wondered how to make my own movies in that style, to no avail.

And what would stop a dev even posting on here under different name? I bet theyre amoung us! And more in the shadows........

Im still online! I didn't pay them! w00t :rolleyes:

jtr7
15th Dec 2011, 04:02
............................

keeperr
15th Dec 2011, 05:05
Bang on, exactly right! I meant that aswell :)

Lady_Of_The_Vine
15th Dec 2011, 08:20
.
I bet theyre amoung us! And more in the shadows........

Absolutely. :)

kamilavalamp
20th Feb 2012, 19:08
We always Loved The Briefings And We Want Them Back. On Top of always Being In Black And White And Stylish, They Always Had Garrett Hidden in A Silhouette, It Added Tons To The Immersion Through The Whole Game Never Seeing All Of Garrett Because He Was Always At Least Halfway Hidden In Shadow Even When He Was In A Conversation With People. That's Another Feature Deadly Shadows Was Missing That Killed The Immersion, Disappointed The Fans, And Led To It Being Seen As An Average Ordinary Game For Newcomers To The Series And Instead Of Creating A Huge Dedicated And Devoted Fanbase Like The First Two Games, It Ended Up On Their Shelf And They Never Recommended It To Their Friends.

tarvis79
20th Feb 2012, 19:18
Count me in as loving the old briefings. Absolute, unconditional love. Best of any game I've ever played.

CaptainObvious
21st Feb 2012, 20:10
I want some sort of ingame briefings; they should take you out of the actual game as little as possible. Surely the cutscenes were nice, but games evolved since then and you don't need cutscenes for everything.

At least when they go for an open world aspect like TDS again; and I don't think they'll go for purely mission based Thief games like the first one again. The menue screens in TDS certainly weren't an ideal solution in any case.

Platinumoxicity
21st Feb 2012, 22:10
I want some sort of ingame briefings; they should take you out of the actual game as little as possible. Surely the cutscenes were nice, but games evolved since then and you don't need cutscenes for everything.

But the kind of briefings Thief 1 and 2 had are pretty simple to make. There was actually one "briefing" in TDS that references the style used in the earlier games. One of the best parts of the game too. The cutscene where Drept explains his history with the Hag and The Cradle. Hand-drawn pictures with simple transitional effects, just like in Thief 1 and 2.

Slugo
22nd Feb 2012, 19:14
Old Style Briefings = Less Expensive = More $ Towards Actual Gameplay!

minispace
22nd Feb 2012, 21:45
That's not necessarily true. It seems to me that using the in-game engine for cut scenes would be cheaper than brand new cinematics, of any style.

I was not a fan of the 3D rendered cut scenes in Thief Deadly Shadows--they just didn't look as good as the mix of hand drawn and live action from the earlier games. I did really like the more traditionally animated stuff from TDS. (this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MagaoyHWF44) I liked; this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGJ5ry4bNJc&feature=related) I did not like)

Platinumoxicity
22nd Feb 2012, 22:04
I just got a great idea. Why not remake the TDS cutscenes? All you need is some animation artists, After Effects, a camera and some basic props and hooded cloaks for greenscreen silhouette filming. All of the pre-rendered cutscenes in TDS are very basic scenes, that don't require any stunts, or camera movement. Just a static background with maybe some animated effects recorded into it, and actors recreating the scenes on the foreground, as silhouettes. Then the original voiceovers could just be added on top of it and it would be all set.

CaptainObvious
23rd Feb 2012, 13:31
Even rendering them in the game engine and running some filters over the recording would look better. The characters in the old movies looked sometimes like they lacked bump mapping or even textures.