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View Full Version : Were you ever forced to fight in the previous games?



Nikoladze
4th Jun 2009, 02:14
I've never played a Theif game, the closest I ever got to doing so was playing the Theif 1 demo.. I've set my eyes on this game because I'm a Splinter Cell fan and I'm not liking the direction Conviction has taken.

In the first SC game there were forced firefights but you always had the option of staying in the shadows in Chaos Theory.

MasterTaffer
4th Jun 2009, 02:17
Simple answer is no.

Hypevosa
4th Jun 2009, 02:30
There is one situation where you're set up for a fight, when going after the mystic's heart in bonehoard there's a room that's dark and when you enter it lights turn on and a hammer haunt appears 10 feet in front of you. Unless you know it's coming it's almost begging for a fight. However, you can just run past the hammer haunt and lift the chest and run through the portal at the other end...

Hypevosa
4th Jun 2009, 06:51
Actually, in TMA if you are on expert and have to go after captain markham's treasure you are forced into a fight... unless you run away. You can always run away from them in the old games since no one will swim after you, use ladders or anything like that. If their AI is updated to the point where they can function in Thief 4 and they pull something like this, you may have to fight. Although I just threw 2 frogbeast eggs at him to kill him :D

AbysmalGale
4th Jun 2009, 08:28
Actually, in TMA if you are on expert and have to go after captain markham's treasure you are forced into a fight... unless you run away. You can always run away from them in the old games since no one will swim after you, use ladders or anything like that. If their AI is updated to the point where they can function in Thief 4 and they pull something like this, you may have to fight. Although I just threw 2 frogbeast eggs at him to kill him :D

I took them all out with a gas arrow. The most quiet way :) And I don't consider it fighting.

EDIT: Oops. I misread the post. Forget my above comment:o

Caranfin
4th Jun 2009, 08:36
There is one situation where you're set up for a fight, when going after the mystic's heart in bonehoard there's a room that's dark and when you enter it lights turn on and a hammer haunt appears 10 feet in front of you. Unless you know it's coming it's almost begging for a fight. However, you can just run past the hammer haunt and lift the chest and run through the portal at the other end...
The whole area before that room is full of traps, though. Which is why I, at least, was going really slowly and carefully into the room, and avoided confrontation.

Hypevosa
4th Jun 2009, 09:07
I took them all out with a gas arrow. The most quiet way :) And I don't consider it fighting.

The dude's a ghost... did a gas arrow really work on a ghost?(???)

MasterTaffer
4th Jun 2009, 09:22
The dude's a ghost... did a gas arrow really work on a ghost?(???)

I think he's confusing Captain Markham with the captain on the smuggling vessel in Shipping... And Recieving!

Regardless, fleeing has always been an option, thus making fighting an optional endeavor in every game.

Neb
4th Jun 2009, 09:28
You can always run away from them in the old games since no one will swim after you, use ladders or anything like that. If their AI is updated to the point where they can function in Thief 4 and they pull something like this, you may have to fight.

Why would the guards jump into the water? Think about what you would do if you were one. You'd track the enemy and try and work out where he's going to climb out to get the jump on him. If you lost him you'd go and call for help. Also, if you were an archer, there's no chance you'd be getting wet.

Think about ladders too. Say you've just seen someone climb a ladder. There's no chance that you're just going to put your weapon away and climb up or down while fully vulnerable.

The suggestion that AI should be able to follow you everywhere, while possibly making the game harder, would not really enhance the experience. They need to navigate these scenarios with cunning, not brute determination.

Hypevosa
4th Jun 2009, 09:34
Why would the guards jump into the water? Think about what you would do if you were one. You'd track the enemy and try and work out where he's going to climb out to get the jump on him. If you lost him you'd go and call for help. Also, if you were an archer, there's no chance you'd be getting wet.

Think about ladders too. Say you've just seen someone climb a ladder. There's no chance that you're just going to put your weapon away and climb up or down while fully vulnerable.

The suggestion that AI should be able to follow you everywhere, while possibly making the game harder, would not really enhance the experience. They need to navigate these scenarios with cunning, not brute determination.

I'm pretty sure benny would jump right in XD If I saw the master thief and I was a guard I'd probably figure on at least a quadruple if not higher digit reward for his capture... I'd take a swim and try to drown him, considering I'm stronger (in my mind at least). And I'd probably go up a ladder after him with my weapon drawn still. People can climb ladders with swords and bows, they just can't wield them effectively while they're on them (The Musketeer is an exception). Mainly I see someone doing it for the fame and fortune, and we know that people do some crazy **** for those. I also see someone doing it because if they didn't they'd lose their job anyways, their pay being used to replace the stolen goods.

AbysmalGale
4th Jun 2009, 09:43
The dude's a ghost... did a gas arrow really work on a ghost?(???)

Oops! Sorry. I read it too hasty. I somehow thought you meant the kidnap level :P Stupid me!

BoldEnglishman
4th Jun 2009, 10:11
In "Return to the Cathedral", on Expert difficulty one of the objectives is to kill all 9 Hammer Haunts. Not really a firefight, but you are forced to resort to violence.

Yotun
4th Jun 2009, 10:31
Another thing to note is that on expert difficulty in the old levels you are required not to kill anyone. Really, if there's instances where you are forced to fight, like the examples given above, they are the extremely rare exception where enemy placement is flawed, rather than the norm.

And I pray they don't change this aspect in T4, or they'll have really missed the whole point of the games.

esme
4th Jun 2009, 11:48
no, the whole idea was if you observed, timed and planned what you were doing you could go through the whole thing without being detected or forced into a confrontation, on the other hand you could hack and slash your way through if you felt like it but you'd usually be killed in the process

odd little moments like the dark room in the bonehoard or the pirates treasure in the underwater room should be setting alarm bells off in your head the second you see them and before they are triggered, because by this time you've got some experience at the game, it should be screaming "trap" at you, so you plan accordingly and if the best plan says "make sure of your exit and run like h*ll for it" then that's what you do

you don't have to fight if you don't want to, however the "not fighting" option was often very difficult but added to the sense of achievement when you did it

the majority of fan missions also adhere to this style but there are a few where the author wants to force confrontations and make Garrett fight so just be wary with FM's

ToMegaTherion
4th Jun 2009, 13:25
While it's not required, I find in the undead missions in Dark Project it is usually easier just to annihilate pretty much everything.

esme
4th Jun 2009, 13:46
and I forgot to add a note on spiders

you must kill all the spiders, absolutely dead, then go jump on the corpses a bit, then shoot them some more just to be sure and then find some rocks or crates and throw them at the corpses

it's not actually required to finish the missions but I feel sooooo much better for doing it

ToMegaTherion
4th Jun 2009, 14:43
You have to do it with your sword, while they're alert, as well. It's like holding one in your hand to cure arachnophobia, but way more satisfying.

esme
4th Jun 2009, 14:58
that's a point can we have little spiders in Thief4, and give Garrett the ability to jump and crush them underfoot with a satisfying crunchy noise perhaps with a small scream of "eeeee..." from the now flattened spider as it dies, and further jumps start squelchy and get progressively less so as you keep doing it until there's nothing but a stain on the floor http://www.ttlg.com/forums/images/smilies/ebil.gif

I'd probably buy the game just for that :cool:

it would be like popping bubble wrap, completely pointless, totally innefectual, an absolute waste of time but sooooooooooooooooooo d*mn satisfying http://www.ttlg.com/forums/images/smilies/ebil.gif

ToMegaTherion
4th Jun 2009, 15:00
Oh, how I wanted to kick those little spiders off ledges...

My brother managed to get one to get stuck in the ceiling once. That was satisfying.

Tushaar
4th Jun 2009, 15:22
-Craigsleft prison mines.
-Elevator room.
-2nd floor, Garrett sees a spider on the 1st floor.
-mmmm Garrett presses 1st floor button
-*squishy noise* YEAHHH DAMNNNN take that!

esme
4th Jun 2009, 15:28
oh yeah, I've done that sort of thing with elevators, the big robots in angelwatch were good fun for that

I wanna jump on the multileggedsonsab's watch their little legs squirm underfoot and hear the last breath wheeze out of it ... bit like Bruce Lee did to the guy with the bottle in Enter the Dragon

The Mental Age
4th Jun 2009, 16:32
it would be like popping bubble wrap, completely pointless, totally innefectual, an absolute waste of time but sooooooooooooooooooo d*mn satisfying http://www.ttlg.com/forums/images/smilies/ebil.gif

Ooooooh, yes. Must have that in Thief 4. I HATE the spiders in Thief.

Remember the second level of TMA, Shipping and Receiving, with the spiderburger plant? There was the big first floor room with the little spiders and the big one... Once, I ran in, released the big guy, and ran away... and the little ones ate him. >.<

Whenever I get in a confrontation, I always charge in, sword swinging, screaming "FOR PONY!!" at the top of my lungs. Gooooooooood times.

Hypevosa
4th Jun 2009, 18:35
"FOR PONY!!"

LFG quote for the win... lfgcomic.com it's pretty sweet, start at comic one ;D

agrash
5th Jun 2009, 19:32
I've never played a Theif game, the closest I ever got to doing so was playing the Theif 1 demo.. I've set my eyes on this game because I'm a Splinter Cell fan and I'm not liking the direction Conviction has taken.

In the first SC game there were forced firefights but you always had the option of staying in the shadows in Chaos Theory.

Yeah that was lame in SC. I had to do some mission's over & over again since the run&gun sucks in SC.
The mission in the slaughterhouse (?) where you have to free some hostages and then protect them from a group of villains who enters at the same time was very frustrating. In the end, i had to set up mine's on the spawnplaces before triggering the hostagescutscene :mad2:

And to answer your question: No, you (luckely) won't have scene's like that in thief allthough you have to fight a guard in thief 1's training mission.. :p

Terr
5th Jun 2009, 21:30
I've never played a Theif game, the closest I ever got to doing so was playing the Theif 1 demo.. I've set my eyes on this game because I'm a Splinter Cell fan and I'm not liking the direction Conviction has taken.

I'd rank Chaos Theory as the best, the original next. For Double Agent vs Pandora Tomorrow it's a toss-up whether you include all the crappy bugs or not.

Except for game-required knockouts/kills, you ghost through all of Chaos Theory without causing alarms of knocking people out... Well, except those annoying guards in the boiler room.


Yeah that was lame in SC. I had to do some mission's over & over again since the run&gun sucks in SC.

BTW, it took a bit of quicksaving and quickloading especially near the end, but you can get through all of Splinter Cell without killing anybody but... Nikoladze...By using the liberal forehead-application of sticky cameras.

Herr_Garrett
6th Jun 2009, 07:38
that's a point can we have little spiders in Thief4, and give Garrett the ability to jump and crush them underfoot with a satisfying crunchy noise perhaps with a small scream of "eeeee..." from the now flattened spider as it dies, and further jumps start squelchy and get progressively less so as you keep doing it until there's nothing but a stain on the floor http://www.ttlg.com/forums/images/smilies/ebil.gif

I'd probably buy the game just for that :cool:

it would be like popping bubble wrap, completely pointless, totally innefectual, an absolute waste of time but sooooooooooooooooooo d*mn satisfying http://www.ttlg.com/forums/images/smilies/ebil.gif

So... sublime! :D I love this idea!

Actually, does anybody know the psychological reason behind that utterly poin/mindless pleasure of popping the bubblewrap?

agrash
6th Jun 2009, 11:37
BTW, it took a bit of quicksaving and quickloading especially near the end, but you can get through all of Splinter Cell without killing anybody but... Nikoladze...By using the liberal forehead-application of sticky cameras.

Even in the first game?? I don't remember the guy in your spoiler but if i recall you could only save the hostages in the slaughterhouse by eliminating the guys who were rushing in