PDA

View Full Version : What do you FEAR for Thief 4?



Pages : [1] 2 3

mdesigning
1st Jun 2009, 00:40
Is there anything that you fear of what might going to happen in Thief 4?

I fear for:

- Awesome graphics, dissapointing gameplay.
- Not many upgrades.
- Many zombie/robot levels in stead of humans.
- Game would take place in a future setting.

WhatsHisFace
1st Jun 2009, 01:53
- Too many upgrades.
- Straying too far from the series roots.
- Rehashing Garrett. (DS ended his story arc perfectly)

GmanPro
1st Jun 2009, 03:21
- NOT reusing Garrett (prequel plz)
- Following the same flawed "reasoning" behind the downfall of games such as IW and TDS
- Cancellation (unless it appears that the devs are taking it in the wrong direction, in which case I hope it does get canceled)

citywolfdreams
1st Jun 2009, 06:07
I fear another ridiculously stupid AI like in Deadly Shadows, where the developers use kid gloves and stop guards from sounding general alerts because they don't want us to "feel TOO challenged." If we get more AI's that find a body, look around suspiciously, and then say "I guess it must just have been rats" then I'm not even bothering to buy it.

Granted, the AI wasn't much better in the first two Thief games - but for its time, it was cutting edge. And you could tell in the second Thief game that there was an attempt to work general alerts into the game system (for example, look at the bank robbery mission). Deadly Shadows, on the other hand, had no such excuse. They had the technology to do a really advanced AI, and instead they chose to devote all their energy to cool graphics. I fear that happening again.

WhatsHisFace
1st Jun 2009, 06:12
- NOT reusing Garrett (prequel plz)
- Following the same flawed "reasoning" behind the downfall of games such as IW and TDS
- Cancellation (unless it appears that the devs are taking it in the wrong direction, in which case I hope it does get canceled)
Thief 1 started with the end of Garrett's training, so a Thief prequel would just be Garrett training with The Keepers, which would be pretty lame for a game concept.

GmanPro
1st Jun 2009, 06:30
Not a prequel to TDP, but to TDS.

Rachie
1st Jun 2009, 07:53
Honestly? That girl replacing Garrett. No way can that happen.

And stupid A.I. The ones in DS, though causing laughable gaming moments, were very annoying.

DoomyDoomyDoomDoom
1st Jun 2009, 08:18
I fear,

Garrett wont be the main character.

A sexy big-boobed lady will be the main character and she will be able to neutralize guards with some sort of leg grapple.

3rd person

loot glint

The AI will not be improved.

It will be ported to the pc from console

The levels will be small

It will have retarded ninja moves and double jumps and crap like that.

--------
Honestly, I can go at this all day.

Platinumoxicity
1st Jun 2009, 08:20
-Player movement system even slightly worse than in TDP. (C'mon that game was made 11 years ago. You should be able to do better.)
-3rd person restrictions affecting 1st person gameplay. (Wide open areas, uncontrollable movement, unable to look up or down)
-No Garrett (Even if the girl is the main character, she has to be played by Stephen Russell, in Garrett's voice.)
-Garrett is modified (More mainstream main character with compassion, unselfishness and more mass appeal.)
-Buggy AI (In TDS people walked into campfires and killed themselves, only to alert people to kill me for it. A room with only 1 entrance, two guards get stuck at the door indefinitely and the loot inside the room becomes unaquirable, restart mission.)
-Hard-coded, unsolvable problems (No rope arrows, arrow trails, 100% silent player movement, loot glint, "paint-blue"-frob highlight, 3rd person default view.)

DoomyDoomyDoomDoom
1st Jun 2009, 08:48
lol @ Garrett gender swap retaining same voice.

DanielOcean
1st Jun 2009, 13:26
I fear

- a weak story, a dull plot...
- a world full of stereotypes
- a protagonist who steadily improves by gaining skillpoints and experience
- a weak AI
- stupid looking NPCs, guards, whatever
- loot glint
- 3rd person
...
...
- in short: a casual game...

Platinumoxicity
1st Jun 2009, 13:38
I fear

- a weak story, a dull plot...
- a world full of stereotypes
- a protagonist who steadily improves by gaining skillpoints and experience
- a weak AI
- stupid looking NPCs, guards, whatever
- loot glint
- 3rd person
...
...
- in short: a casual game...
World of Warcraft? That would suck indeed. That game has it all, stupid looking everything, 3rd person, skill points, whatever plot. You name it.

HellionKal
1st Jun 2009, 13:51
"THIEF 4! Press X to continue"

"Follow the little triangle on your compass to reach the primary objective"

"Press [Square] "space" to jump"

"Hammer [X] "enter"as fast as you can to beat the lockpick mini-game!"

xDarknessFallsx
1st Jun 2009, 16:24
Good ones above. I agree with them. Hellion's are funny, but awesomely true! I also fear:
* Some sort of city hub
* RPG elements where you need to talk to people and depending on your response it affects who you are. Actually, I fear that you'd have to interact and talk to people at all and hear lame conversations from first-person. (I don't even want to talk to some guy selling me tools for the next section. Just let me buy my weapons like in T2 and leave first-person interactions like this for a different game entirely.)
* That the levels are large, but areas are obviously sectioned off somehow into "zones" or draw-distances are cut to preserve framerates thereby helping us feel claustrophobic or that it's a linear game.

imported_van_HellSing
1st Jun 2009, 17:14
-the game turning into vaporware, just like Eidos Montreal's other game.

LightWarriorK
1st Jun 2009, 17:44
I fear them removing the fear to cater to the wider demographic.

"We can't have little kids playing The Cradle! They'll cry themselves to sleep and we'll all be sued!"

dogsolitude_uk
1st Jun 2009, 17:59
Limited Activation DRM - I want to be able to play this game in years to come on other PCs without having to ask Eidos' permission, thankew. I'm on my (estimated) 10th install of Thief - The Dark Project on a third PC. Took me ages to get it working. Plus I want to be able to play it without being connected to t'internet too. Disk in drive is fine.

Worrying about where the plot fits in to the story arc. I'm quite happy to just have Garrett nicking stuff in a new story without too much reference to the other games.

Garrett played by someone who isn't Mr Russell.

The protagonist not being Garrett - that really wouldn't work.

Small levels. That would annoy me. Thief levels must be large, and allow the playe to find loads of little hidden things.

I'd also hate a big, bright, chunky interface. Keep it discreet! Please, keep it discreet!

The game being Fast and Easy. If I want Fast and Easy I'll play HL2. I want Slow and Difficult in Thief. Fast games bore me. No time to think or explore or contemplate one's next move. I like slow games, like Thief, EVE, X3, STALKER...

Likewise, if I want fast food I'll go to McD's. If I want a slow-cooked meal, I'll go to Tatler's.

In short, I'd like to see something with the same atmosphere and setting as Thief I and II. Dark, slow, Steampunky and weird.

Yep, that's do me nicely. :)

GmanPro
1st Jun 2009, 20:22
Oh yes. DRM

That goes without saying I think

DoomyDoomyDoomDoom
1st Jun 2009, 22:05
Yea I forgot about that DRM and third party software. Seems every recent game I want REQUIRES at least xboxlive and/or steam and/or some other retarded thing I don't want to be a part of (Rockstar Social Club). God I hate that ****.

There better not be a 'Thief Club' I have to join if I want to save my game and not have the main menu show up as a big Page Cannot Be Displayed message when I refuse to login. Ugh and the constant reminders that I'm not logged into whatever service "you're not logged in" "hey you know you're not logged in right?" "OFFLINE WARNING" "you need to be logged in to XXXXX" and **** like that. good grief. Whatever happened to just installing and playing a game.

edit. got off track, sorry

MasterTaffer
1st Jun 2009, 22:05
-A rehash of Thief 1 & 2. While I'm not opposed to a remake fo the first two games, I want this to be Thief 4, an actual sequel.
-Small, limited levels. What made Thief work when it was released was its sprawling, non-linear levels. But there are also times when they might have been too big. (Thieves Guild is a perfect example)
-A modern reboot. When I want a quality modern stealth game, I'll go play Splinter Cell.
-Fantasy elements (magic, undead, Trickster beasts, etc) are dropped from the game. They are what add charm to the game's universe, for me.
-Uninspired story. Thus far I've had 3 great stories from 3 games. TMA I found to be a bit weaker than the other two, but I blame that more on LGS making the levels first and then writting the story to fit in them. It resulted in great level designs, but the story suffered slightly.

Herr_Garrett
2nd Jun 2009, 05:42
Quoth Digital Nightfall:


Originally posted by Digital Nightfall

I can see only one good thing coming from a Thief 4.

Mark my words on this one.

I am 100% serious.

It will make people love Deadly Shadows.


There you have my greatest fear.

esme
2nd Jun 2009, 13:11
Splinter Cell meets Prince of Persia meets Assassins Creed with DRM that needs you to be connected to the internet when you play and only allows limited activations

all good games in their own right but no combination of any of their parts is Thief and DRM just sucks the goodness out of all it touches

I want an evolution of the universe from TDP & TMA not a rehash

I want control of the character not a pick a direction and put a cup on the forward button interface

I want to have to think and plan about what I'm doing and not sit chatting to friends pressing random buttons until something works and suddenly I've won

I want problems that have multiple solutions not single solution pinch points full of AI

I want big sprawling levels that I can explore, hunt and be hunted not tiny cramped levels where stepping through a door freezes all the activity behind me so when I go back the AI are still there and just as mad at me as they were before

I want a challenge, I don't want easy

huzi73
2nd Jun 2009, 13:31
What made Thief work when it was released was its sprawling, non-linear levels. But there are also times when they might have been too big. (Thieves Guild is a perfect example)


NO!!!Missions MUST be long!!!

Anyway,here goes...

Stupid name
Loot glint
Climbing gloves
3rd person only
Almost NO undead
Stupid antagonist that only gets brought up in the last level (Example:Gamall)
Mainly human AI
Stupid AI
Very little reference to previous games (especially TDP/TMA)
Garrett in tight leather clothes with no robe
Garretts face fully revealed
Dumb faction tasks
Pagans that sound like hippies on crack
No swimmable water
Menu interface which bears no resemblence to TDP/TMA
No rope arrows
No sword/fencing
Cheap Items
Abundence of arrows
Too much info on Factions completely destoying their mysterious nature.
Keepers who dont wear Robes
The slightest hint at a female taking over from Garrett
Small levels
No Mechanists
No Burricks
No craymen
Wait...NO THIS CANT BE!!!This game has already been made!!Noooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:mad2:
It was called Thief :Deadly Shadows:confused:

Sinclair
2nd Jun 2009, 16:58
I fear:

- overly sophisticated gameplay, graphics, bells & whistles, etc. that divert attention away from a good storyline and characters. When I recall my favorite games it's almost always the gameplay and story that make it memorable.
- not having Stephen Russell's voice for Garrett
- no briefings in black&white between missions
- not enough effort put into sound design
- missions being too short
- the overall game being too short
- not having optional secrets
- game design being too linear (having freedom to complete the mission in more than one way is better).
- finally, I don't want to see it too much like T1,2,3. It's important to retain the look and feel of the early games, but some change can be good. I think I could even accept a different time period, but would definately prefer the steam-punk age, or similar.

GmanPro
2nd Jun 2009, 17:02
Why do so many people want the gameplay to change? If you want to play something different, then don't play Thief.

HellionKal
2nd Jun 2009, 17:17
Because, y'know, change is good. People love change. Can't get enough of it. Change, that is. THIEF must evolve, man. THIEF 1+2+3 are so totally old and outdated that you can't ride vehicles, dual-wield swords, date a variety of women in-game and decorate your turf, not to mention that chairs are barely 10 pixels wide in these games and that you can't even add bloom and anti-aliasing effects ffs, I mean what's up with THAT??? THI4F= NEW AND IMPROVED!!! The series must CHANGE and be brought to the new decade. Get with the times, man. Change. CHANGE!

OXM says so, so it must be true.

GmanPro
2nd Jun 2009, 17:27
Lol, you forgot:

-Regenerating Health
-Regenerating Ammo
-Regenerating Enemies
-Regenerating Levels
-Regenerating Vehicles/Duel-Wielded Swords/Dateable Women etc..

Because the Industry as a whole has grown up*




* Trademark

ToMegaTherion
2nd Jun 2009, 17:48
Regenerating Dateable Women would be pretty cool, to be fair.

Not entirely sure that wanting the gameplay to stay basically the same is certainly what we want. If there were big advances, particularly in AI but also in other areas, that necessitated big changes from the style of play that was effective in the first three games, I'd be OK with that, as long as it was also fun.

GmanPro
2nd Jun 2009, 17:54
I've made this point hundreds of times but I'll say it again. Just add to/improve. Never change/remove.

esme
2nd Jun 2009, 17:57
I've made this point hundreds of times but I'll say it again. Just add to/improve. Never change/remove.yep :thumb:

ToMegaTherion
2nd Jun 2009, 18:00
What if improving (AI for example) leads to changes (in the way you have to play) that are quite significant? Is that to be avoided in all circumstances?

huzi73
2nd Jun 2009, 20:19
I've made this point hundreds of times but I'll say it again. Just add to/improve. Never change/remove.

Unless you're dealing with TDS

GmanPro
2nd Jun 2009, 20:20
What if improving (AI for example) leads to changes (in the way you have to play) that are quite significant? Is that to be avoided in all circumstances?

Like what?

huzi73
4th Jun 2009, 17:25
Im sure he cant think of something that would really be such a drastic change

clock12345
4th Jun 2009, 18:40
I Fear that
-they will remove garrett as main character
-they will have to delete the 3th person ( i have an idea eidos when ever the game starts at the first level of the game you can chose to have 1th person or 3th person you will have a video demostration on both person's please make it like this and dont remove the 3th person please!!! oh and also garret!!.

Corvin25
4th Jun 2009, 19:38
"We at eidos are pleased to announce that production of Thief 4 will be taken over by Peter Molyneux of Lionhead Studios!"

:eek:

MasterTaffer
4th Jun 2009, 19:45
"we at eidos are pleased to announce that production of thief 4 will be taken over by peter molyneux of lionhead studios!"

:eek:

*scream*

Hypevosa
4th Jun 2009, 20:13
the guy who made fable 2? dude that could be pretty good story telling. He'd better not turn it into fable 3 though, or we'll all sneak into his house and forget the whole "only amateurs kill" thing...

Knight
6th Jun 2009, 20:26
Just dont be much zombie/robot levels, human levels are better every 6. level should be zombie/robot.

KSingh77
6th Jun 2009, 21:26
Speaking of Peter Molyneux have you heard about that new interactive game call Milo for the 360?

ChrisDS
8th Jun 2009, 20:23
I fear,

Garrett wont be the main character.

A sexy big-boobed lady will be the main character and she will be able to neutralize guards with some sort of leg grapple.

3rd person

loot glint

The AI will not be improved.

It will be ported to the pc from console

The levels will be small

It will have retarded ninja moves and double jumps and crap like that.

--------
Honestly, I can go at this all day.



Dood I couldn't have said it any better!

Myth
9th Jun 2009, 03:08
Anyway,here goes...

Stupid name
Loot glint
Climbing gloves
3rd person only
Almost NO undead
Stupid antagonist that only gets brought up in the last level (Example:Gamall)
Mainly human AI
Stupid AI
Very little reference to previous games (especially TDP/TMA)
Garrett in tight leather clothes with no robe
Garretts face fully revealed
Dumb faction tasks
Pagans that sound like hippies on crack
No swimmable water
Menu interface which bears no resemblence to TDP/TMA
No rope arrows
No sword/fencing
Cheap Items
Abundence of arrows
Too much info on Factions completely destoying their mysterious nature.
Keepers who dont wear Robes
The slightest hint at a female taking over from Garrett
Small levels
No Mechanists
No Burricks
No craymen
Wait...NO THIS CANT BE!!!This game has already been made!!Noooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It was called Thief eadly Shadows And that kids, is why we bash on TDS. All you fanbois out there THIS IS WHY WE HATE IT. See, it' s not a matter of elitism. The game is simply lacking. Basically what i fear is Thief 4 following TDS and not the first two games, and also (due to popular demand) borrowing elements from Assassins Creed, Splinter Cell, GTA and Pro Wrestling Mania.

DarthEnder
9th Jun 2009, 03:17
I fear a city hub and the myriad of bull**** gameplay elements that go along with it.

AbysmalGale
9th Jun 2009, 09:37
I Fear that
-they will remove garrett as main character
-they will have to delete the 3th person ( i have an idea eidos when ever the game starts at the first level of the game you can chose to have 1th person or 3th person you will have a video demostration on both person's please make it like this and dont remove the 3th person please!!! oh and also garret!!.

Man, you're really concerned about the 3rd person view, aren't you? You talk about it all the time, like it's what Thief is all about :) I don't get whats so hilarious about 3rd person. Especially for a game that, in the golden days, was intended and designed for (and ONLY for) 1st person.

Start playing WOW. Then you'll get all the 3rd person view you need ;)

ToMegaTherion
9th Jun 2009, 10:20
The slightest hint at a female taking over from Garrett


boo to evil sexists pigs :(

huzi73
9th Jun 2009, 10:47
the guy who made fable 2? dude that could be pretty good story telling. He'd better not turn it into fable 3 though, or we'll all sneak into his house and forget the whole "only amateurs kill" thing...




And that kids, is why we bash on TDS. All you fanbois out there THIS IS WHY WE HATE IT. See, it' s not a matter of elitism. The game is simply lacking. Basically what i fear is Thief 4 following TDS and not the first two games, and also (due to popular demand) borrowing elements from Assassins Creed, Splinter Cell, GTA and Pro Wrestling Mania.


boo to evil sexists pigs :(

No, its not that, if Garrett was a lass from the start, I wouldnt mind, but simply dropping him in favour of a chick "because the industry has matured?" thats total bs!!!

ToMegaTherion
9th Jun 2009, 11:25
There shouldn't be any dogmatic preference for one gender or the other, if the main character were to change. I'd rather they just tossed a coin to decide.

Myth
10th Jun 2009, 01:40
There shouldn't be any dogmatic preference for one gender or the other, if the main character were to change. I'd rather they just tossed a coin to decide. And so it was said, let there be no Thief without Garrett, and the people looked upon him who could not be seen in the shadows and knew...

AbysmalGale
10th Jun 2009, 08:31
Honestly. They would never switch Lara Croft in Tomb Raider to a male character. Lara IS the game basically. That would be just really weird. In the same way, switching Garrett to a female character in Thief would be really weird, since also Garrett basically IS the game.

ToMegaTherion
10th Jun 2009, 08:55
I have no problem with people who want Garrett And Nobody Else, but there are some implications in some of the posts on this subject that switching to a lady would be worse than switching to a different man. That's what I don't like.

Xerosch
10th Jun 2009, 09:07
I can say that in general I fear that the very heart of the series gets ripped out. I will play Thi4f no matter what, but making it 'cool & hip' will destroy it. I played 'Silent Hill: Homecoming' and 'Origins', so I know that game series can be dead and still be beaten around.

And I'm not sure about how to proceed from Deadly Shadows, as Garrett's story is finished and every game showed one of the three instances. So I'm quite sure Thi4f will feature Garrett being old (and maybe the new interpreter), the girl all grown up and looking sexy in dark leather (and lame, every developer does this nowadays), Garrett will probably get kidnapped, you rescue him, all is good.More than a standard plot and not worthy of this awesome series.

Actually, I would rather see no new Thief game than something just to get some cash in.

deathshadow
10th Jun 2009, 10:10
What I fear is the same steaming pile of manure we got the Thief name slapped on for Deadly Shadows.

Calling a spiked billy club a blackjack, stiff backed character animations that felt more fake than the animations in the dark engine, horribly broken ragdoll physics (because when people are knocked out their body always lands in a upright bending back C), nonsensical controls (default behavior run, shift to walk on a THIEF), 'body awareness' that makes every movement feel like you are controlling a two year old learning to walk and not a master thief, stupid malfing purple glow on everything...

Much less the horrid case of console features basically flushing the game down the toilet so far as PC gamers were concerned - the same problem that afflicts many longstanding successful franchises in their latest iterations (GTA4 anyone?). Text where each letter is the size of my fist, Loot Glint, Arrow trails, dayglo cyan frobbing effect that looked more like a rendering error than intentional design - all you have to do to figure out what NOT to do is look at all the **** people clamored to 'fix' within the first HOURS of Deadly Shadows release.

I also fear that it will also be set in "Generic Fantasy universe #3" as deadly shadows was, instead of the rich universe of the first two games. Were were our wonderful buzzing machines, random flashing electrical devices, etc. The world of the first two games was a steampunk mix, that entire aspect was nowhere to be found in the third one.

Long ago I remember reading a review of Thief 2 that went something like "This game is little more than new levels and some minor tweaks to the original game. This is one of the rare cases where that is not a bad thing as it's exactly what the fans wanted."

What the long time fans of Thief WANT is the gameplay of the Dark Engine with better graphics - That's it. I don't care about new weapons, 'upgrades', hell I don't even care if you fix the glitches in things like blackjacking someone in the knee (though it would be nice). There is a thriving community of people putting out Thief 2 fan missions some of which rival or exceed T3 in gameplay, scope and story. A Night in Rocksburg, Broken Triad, T2X, CoSaS X - learn something from these!

But of course, I have little doubt this will just be another crapped out console game with a piss poor port to the PC - since for all intents and purposes the franchise was flushed down the toilet by the last game, and I doubt any sort of recovery is possible.

AbysmalGale
10th Jun 2009, 10:37
Long ago I remember reading a review of Thief 2 that went something like "This game is little more than new levels and some minor tweaks to the original game. This is one of the rare cases where that is not a bad thing as it's exactly what the fans wanted."

What the long time fans of Thief WANT is the gameplay of the Dark Engine with better graphics - That's it. I don't care about new weapons, 'upgrades', hell I don't even care if you fix the glitches in things like blackjacking someone in the knee (though it would be nice). There is a thriving community of people putting out Thief 2 fan missions some of which rival or exceed T3 in gameplay, scope and story. A Night in Rocksburg, Broken Triad, T2X, CoSaS X - learn something from these!

You are so incredibly right about this!!!!!!

esme
10th Jun 2009, 12:04
Thief is the story of Garrett, a street urchin taken in and trained by the keepers, who subsequently rejected the strictures the order wished to place on him and returned to the streets where the best and most rewarding occupation he found his training and education suited him for was that of a Thief

swapping the main character is a bad idea, swap the character and it may look very similar, it may play brilliantly, but it's not the story of Garrett so it's not Thief

catelee2u
28th Jun 2009, 04:29
My fears:

It'll be too consoley and/or a button basher or overly linear with lots of level loading or small areas with little or no detail
First person player mode has got to stay!! I worry it'll be default third person.
There'll be a bad control system....at least stick to original thief 1 controls.
There will be only one or two ways to play. Multiple ways please. No linearity.
They won't use Stephen Russell. (HE IS A MUST) and voice and character acting must be high priority as well as music
Garrett won't be main character.
There will be DRM/starforce type crap.
It'll be too colourful and lose the atmosphere on the first 2 games. T1&2 are the standard to measure it by and most of T3.
They'll make it too bland not utilising ideas from the varied factions.
It won't be scary enough.
They'll make it too easy/dumbed down.
It'll be full of bimbos.
No humour.
Game or levels very short in line with sucky console games.
Too much on screen display clutter esp that designed to look good on a television grr.
The story will be obvious or dull missing the unique elements of the game.
Innovations that spoil the atmosphere, like customising Garrett.
No secret areas.
They'll take out things I love like rope arrows.

I agree largely with the posting by Deathshadow also.

kaekaelyn
28th Jun 2009, 04:35
Thieffanman, if you're referring to me, I am a lady myself. I am definitely not sexist. I am afraid that game developers will go the sexist route in order to please horny teenage boys. That is why I would rather have a male protagonist than a female one--because I don't trust game devs to take the high road.

Shadowplay
28th Jun 2009, 08:47
-- Turning Garret into another gore-feast killer Assasin! NO focus on violence and no bloody kill-moves like in most the other recent games, PLEASE :(
-- Making Thief IV "cool"
-- Increased focus on action :mad2:
-- No feeling and atmosphere of loneliness and a dark world
-- Thief IV become like all the other half-baken stealth-action hybrids on the market :eek:

And a few other obvious things some of you guys already mentioned (1st person, rope arrow, swimmable water, too far from it's T1/T2 roots ... )

FriendlyStranger
28th Jun 2009, 11:05
First: My biggest fear is that Devs put in a little love story with Garrett falling in love... (his gf is abducted, he is forced to do something to save her... )

Second: I want Garrett as maincharacter.

All the other things (no secrets, water etc.) have already been pointed out.

btw Why are so many of you always stressing that the Thief Story ended in TDS. Garrett hasn't died or anything, he still has to make a living... Just because the glyph crap SEEMS to be over it doesn't have to mean we can't continue with something NEW happening. It's pretty uncreative to think in such patterns - especially in the Thief universe. I wouldn't mind if EM just ignores TDSand it's happenings, that's what TDS did with TDP and TMA too, so its just fair.

Hamadriyad
28th Jun 2009, 11:19
First: My biggest fear is that Devs put in a little love story with Garrett falling in love... (his gf is abducted, he is forced to do something to save her... )

Second: I want Garrett as maincharacter.

All the other things (no secrets, water etc.) have already been pointed out.

btw Why are so many of you always stressing that the Thief Story ended in TDS. Garrett hasn't died or anything, he still has to make a living... Just because the glyph crap SEEMS to be over it doesn't have to mean we can't continue with something NEW happening. It's pretty uncreative to think in such patterns - especially in the Thief universe. I wouldn't mind if EM just ignores TDSand it's happenings, that's what TDS did with TDP and TMA too, so its just fair.

If Em ignores TDS events and ending, I will destroy them.

Platinumoxicity
28th Jun 2009, 11:28
btw Why are so many of you always stressing that the Thief Story ended in TDS. Garrett hasn't died or anything, he still has to make a living... Just because the glyph crap SEEMS to be over it doesn't have to mean we can't continue with something NEW happening. It's pretty uncreative to think in such patterns - especially in the Thief universe. I wouldn't mind if EM just ignores TDSand it's happenings, that's what TDS did with TDP and TMA too, so its just fair.

The Thief-story didn't end with TDS. The chain of events that started in TDP, the story of the TRILOGY ended in TDS to allow a clean start. This way it would have made sense even if the sequel would have never been made. ;) There were no loose ends, nothing that needed to be explained was left unexplained. There was nothing that foreshadowed following events. This way the devs of the sequel have more freedom in designing the story, without having to make everything revolve around former events, the propecies or the keepers anymore. The events don't even have to strictly revolve around Garrett since his duties as the true keeper have been completed. He's not part of any prochecy anymore since there are no propecies. ...But, this doesn't mean that he can't still interfere. ;)

FriendlyStranger
28th Jun 2009, 11:46
The Thief-story didn't end with TDS. The chain of events that started in TDP, the story of the TRILOGY ended in TDS to allow a clean start. This way it would...to strictly revolve around Garrett since his duties as the true keeper have been completed. He's not part of any prochecy anymore since there are no propecies. ...But, this doesn't mean that he can't still interfere. ;)

Yeah I know your view on this "subject" ^^

- but it shouldn't keep anyone from making a sequel nontheless. Loose ends or not I think there is no law EM couldn't produce a good sequel with a new storyline. A storyline which continues with the main character Garrett - not necessarily using the means of a prequel.

ToMegaTherion
28th Jun 2009, 12:12
Given that nobody can agree as to what should happen next, I think we should all resolve to be fairly relaxed about how they choose to continue the story with Garrett, since it's bound to go some way that some of us are unhappy with, and we'll just have to live with that.

FriendlyStranger
28th Jun 2009, 12:34
Given that nobody can agree as to what should happen next, I think we should all resolve to be fairly relaxed about how they choose to continue the story with Garrett, since it's bound to go some way that some of us are unhappy with, and we'll just have to live with that.

oh plz cmon. This is a forum - a place to discuss your opinion with others and the other way round. Everybody who wants to, states his view, tells what he thinks about the other's POV. There is no need for agreement, you can't just tell someone on a forum "This leads to nothing, let's just shut up and be disappointed later" cause the discussion is what leads people here.

From my POV there are many loose ends after TDS - it was never said what exactly happened to the remaining machine servants, mechanists, hammerites, mages, pagans, thiefs, keepers etc. enough stuff to produce ten sequels out of it. I need to point that out, cause I think it's not true TDS is not open to a sequel containing Garrett. There is a slight chance Em reads what we are writing / if people now say: "There can be no Sequel after TD with Garrett as MC" and nobody states otherwise, hey maybe EM takes over this POV and produces T4 - The Adventures of Buttrick Bottlebuttom.

ToMegaTherion
28th Jun 2009, 13:40
Sorry, I didn't make my meaning clear, I mean we should talk about it here, but when the inevitable happens and EM decide to do something we personally don't like, we shouldn't be too riotous about it, because they have no choice but to disappoint some of us. So for example I imagine if Garrett continues as the main character I think it's fairly likely that EM will do it in a way that makes me unhappy, but I resolve not to criticise (too much).

Unless they disappoint all of us, then we can riot.

CaptainObvious
28th Jun 2009, 15:18
also fear that it will also be set in "Generic Fantasy universe #3" as deadly shadows was, instead of the rich universe of the first two games. Were were our wonderful buzzing machines, random flashing electrical devices, etc.

How's that? Factions, characters and visual style of the Citywas mostly the same. Is it the normal mapping or the absence of the electrical spider streetlights of T1 and T2 that make TDS take place in "Generic Fantasy universe #3"?


The world of the first two games was a steampunk mix, that entire aspect was nowhere to be found in the third one.

It's there, and it's not even hidden or something.

FriendlyStranger
28th Jun 2009, 15:41
It's there, and it's not even hidden or something.

That's obviously not true (get it???-->obviously). If you compare the streets and buildings of

TDP,TMA: --> Pipes, Counters, Humming Machines, Tesla apperatures everywhere, the steam robotics

to

TDS: --> Only a few levels had the steampunk elements (Clocktower, Prison,Hammerite Church)

you clearly have to draw the conclusion that TDS had only a very very slight steampunk touch. Most of it IS hidden or at least not very dominant.

Arkanis
28th Jun 2009, 15:43
NO!!!Missions MUST be long!!!

Anyway,here goes...

Stupid name
Loot glint
Climbing gloves
3rd person only
Almost NO undead
Stupid antagonist that only gets brought up in the last level (Example:Gamall)
Mainly human AI
Stupid AI
Very little reference to previous games (especially TDP/TMA)
Garrett in tight leather clothes with no robe
Garretts face fully revealed
Dumb faction tasks
Pagans that sound like hippies on crack
No swimmable water
Menu interface which bears no resemblence to TDP/TMA
No rope arrows
No sword/fencing
Cheap Items
Abundence of arrows
Too much info on Factions completely destoying their mysterious nature.
Keepers who dont wear Robes
The slightest hint at a female taking over from Garrett
Small levels
No Mechanists
No Burricks
No craymen
Wait...NO THIS CANT BE!!!This game has already been made!!Noooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:mad2:
It was called Thief :Deadly Shadows:confused:

All of these along with:

No major difficulty setting (It's probably gonna be designed for the Halo kids, but give us a real difficulty setting please)
More focus on combat. Stay away from that
Selling the game/Garrett off as an assassin
Garrett getting special moves/powers and stupid **** like that
Gutting the controls, level size, and general quality of the game for the consoles/kiddies

13LACK13ISHOP
28th Jun 2009, 17:45
NO!!!Missions MUST be long!!!

Anyway,here goes...

Stupid name
Loot glint
Climbing gloves
3rd person only
Almost NO undead
Stupid antagonist that only gets brought up in the last level (Example:Gamall)
Mainly human AI
Stupid AI
Very little reference to previous games (especially TDP/TMA)
Garrett in tight leather clothes with no robe
Garretts face fully revealed
Dumb faction tasks
Pagans that sound like hippies on crack
No swimmable water
Menu interface which bears no resemblence to TDP/TMA
No rope arrows
No sword/fencing
Cheap Items
Abundence of arrows
Too much info on Factions completely destoying their mysterious nature.
Keepers who dont wear Robes
The slightest hint at a female taking over from Garrett
Small levels
No Mechanists
No Burricks
No craymen
Wait...NO THIS CANT BE!!!This game has already been made!!Noooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:mad2:
It was called Thief :Deadly Shadows:confused:

This

No robots
Invisibility potions(erases the point)
Potion of silence(see invisibility)
No frog beasts
Lean keys that make you side step instead of lean
Indestructable light bulbs/alarms
No dogs
No fem guards
No lean forward or look through keyholes or some system of knowing whats on the other side of a door.
Changing clothes
Freerunning(becouse the industry has grown up as a whole)
Overuse of blue and purple
Regenerating health
Firearms
No constantines sword
No hanging of fences or ledges(so what if it was in you know what it was good and besides the guy was like 80 near the end of the series so dont give me all that assins creed ninja crap)
Noisemaker arrows(I dont care what you say they SUCKED)
No woodsie
Takes its self to serious(no funny guards)
Not hard enough for veteran theif players like me.

Bossnagger
29th Jun 2009, 10:42
I have no problem with people who want Garrett And Nobody Else, but there are some implications in some of the posts on this subject that switching to a lady would be worse than switching to a different man. That's what I don't like.

Sorry for it being a man's world...

ToMegaTherion
29th Jun 2009, 10:52
It's hard to respond to such an epic logic fail.

Bossnagger
29th Jun 2009, 10:53
What I fear is the same steaming pile of manure we got the Thief name slapped on for Deadly Shadows.

Calling a spiked billy club a blackjack, stiff backed character animations that felt more fake than the animations in the dark engine, horribly broken ragdoll physics (because when people are knocked out their body always lands in a upright bending back C), nonsensical controls (default behavior run, shift to walk on a THIEF), 'body awareness' that makes every movement feel like you are controlling a two year old learning to walk and not a master thief, stupid malfing purple glow on everything...

Much less the horrid case of console features basically flushing the game down the toilet so far as PC gamers were concerned - the same problem that afflicts many longstanding successful franchises in their latest iterations (GTA4 anyone?). Text where each letter is the size of my fist, Loot Glint, Arrow trails, dayglo cyan frobbing effect that looked more like a rendering error than intentional design - all you have to do to figure out what NOT to do is look at all the **** people clamored to 'fix' within the first HOURS of Deadly Shadows release.

I also fear that it will also be set in "Generic Fantasy universe #3" as deadly shadows was, instead of the rich universe of the first two games. Were were our wonderful buzzing machines, random flashing electrical devices, etc. The world of the first two games was a steampunk mix, that entire aspect was nowhere to be found in the third one.

Long ago I remember reading a review of Thief 2 that went something like "This game is little more than new levels and some minor tweaks to the original game. This is one of the rare cases where that is not a bad thing as it's exactly what the fans wanted."

What the long time fans of Thief WANT is the gameplay of the Dark Engine with better graphics - That's it. I don't care about new weapons, 'upgrades', hell I don't even care if you fix the glitches in things like blackjacking someone in the knee (though it would be nice). There is a thriving community of people putting out Thief 2 fan missions some of which rival or exceed T3 in gameplay, scope and story. A Night in Rocksburg, Broken Triad, T2X, CoSaS X - learn something from these!

But of course, I have little doubt this will just be another crapped out console game with a piss poor port to the PC - since for all intents and purposes the franchise was flushed down the toilet by the last game, and I doubt any sort of recovery is possible.

I agree with all but the last paragraph. There is no reason to be so negative. The Thief series still has a lot of potential left in it.

esme
29th Jun 2009, 10:58
Thieffanman, if you're referring to me, I am a lady myself. I am definitely not sexist. I am afraid that game developers will go the sexist route in order to please horny teenage boys. That is why I would rather have a male protagonist than a female one--because I don't trust game devs to take the high road.
ditto :thumb:

one thought occurred to me to explain TDS at the start of T4

Garrett wakes from a deep sleep, he hears the sound of running water, groggily he gets to his feet and stumbles to the bathroom and witnesses a horrific sight, Gamall is having a shower, water is forming rivulets along her wrinkles and cascading from the saggy bits, Garretts world starts to spin, Gamall notices him and says "Good morning", it was all a dream .... just a horrible dream

:lol:

lyssyder
29th Jun 2009, 15:08
My fears:

graphics / appereances over contents / story

new targets for the game = raped game, WE are the target so respect us

lighter atmosphere because children may play it

loot, items, options = trash to cover for the lack of a good plot, story, characters = EMPTY game

ambientation in a different world, future etc.

game without Garrett, or with a different Garrett

different voice actor for Garrett

bha....just get the first two games and learn from those, it's not too hard.
Don't change them too much just for the sake of change and novelty but use your
good judgement. Modernity doesn't mean superiority.

catelee2u
29th Jun 2009, 17:41
This

No robots
Invisibility potions(erases the point)
Potion of silence(see invisibility)
No frog beasts
Lean keys that make you side step instead of lean
Indestructable light bulbs/alarms
No dogs
No fem guards
No lean forward or look through keyholes or some system of knowing whats on the other side of a door.
Changing clothes
Freerunning(becouse the industry has grown up as a whole)
Overuse of blue and purple
Regenerating health
Firearms
No constantines sword
No hanging of fences or ledges(so what if it was in you know what it was good and besides the guy was like 80 near the end of the series so dont give me all that assins creed ninja crap)
Noisemaker arrows(I dont care what you say they SUCKED)
No woodsie
Takes its self to serious(no funny guards)
Not hard enough for veteran theif players like me.

Hello Son
This was posted by my teenage son, just goes to show the quality and varied appeal level of the Thief franchise.

Herr_Garrett
29th Jun 2009, 18:09
I mostly fear that it will be DS's progeny in all respects.

kaekaelyn
29th Jun 2009, 18:43
I fear that they won't even try to bring back Terri/Eric Brosius.

Fatherwoodsie
30th Jun 2009, 05:59
The Thief-story didn't end with TDS. The chain of events that started in TDP, the story of the TRILOGY ended in TDS to allow a clean start. This way it would have made sense even if the sequel would have never been made. ;) There were no loose ends, nothing that needed to be explained was left unexplained. There was nothing that foreshadowed following events. This way the devs of the sequel have more freedom in designing the story, without having to make everything revolve around former events, the propecies or the keepers anymore. The events don't even have to strictly revolve around Garrett since his duties as the true keeper have been completed. He's not part of any prochecy anymore since there are no propecies. ...But, this doesn't mean that he can't still interfere. ;)

your somewhat right, with a new story direction and new chain of events, it could start a whole new story which then a thief 5! will be necessary! good thinking on that! but i think all the gameplay should stick to its roots!

Fatherwoodsie
30th Jun 2009, 06:20
this may be the best thread idea. becuase we can all vent on the things us true fans KNOW shouldnt be in thi4f....like backtracking to cities and to garrets home (horrible idea and waste of memory which can be used to on new levels)

im afraid you will have to help either the pagans or hammers again. leave that out! Garret stands alone! ALONE! i am afraid of more walking robots especially the little ones that tattle. i am just afraid it will delv off into the more keeper-esque missions. maybe one! but thats it. i am afraid they will keep using the glyph keys. i dont really want anything new, i just want the same old thief with new levels!

Fatherwoodsie
30th Jun 2009, 06:27
i fear it will turn into a world of warcraft/diablo type game. that is my biggest fear. please leave it a first person stealth

Hamadriyad
30th Jun 2009, 15:50
. i dont really want anything new, i just want the same old thief with new levels!

You will be disappointed then. Because the past is the past.

FriendlyStranger
30th Jun 2009, 16:13
You will be disappointed then. Because the past is the past.

I don't know if I would really be disappointed - maybe I would rather be relieved, if I get a Thief 1,2 + medium graphics + physics. I would rather describe that as the lesser evil.

Sparker
30th Jun 2009, 19:36
1. That they lose the city's, I loved them, make them bigger, more varried, more real, with people going about thier jobs, night patrols etc. Remember in DS you got to pick whether you got the jacknalls paw first or st edgars chalice.

More things like that where we pick our missions and walk to them, those sort of things make the game immersive.

2. A future set theif would be awful.

3. Loosing the faction system, I liked that, it gave an interesting variety, and made your actions matter. I would like to see more of this.

Fatherwoodsie
1st Jul 2009, 07:01
agreed....garrett stands alone!

xDarknessFallsx
1st Jul 2009, 08:05
I fear:
- Mission briefings like TDS
- Having everything spelled out for us. (Don't put labels on every switch and lever. Don't put the same note/letter/papyrus in 2 or more places. Don't be so linear that we're practically forced to find a power switch or set of keys that will make our lives easier later in the level.)
- The story will be built first instead of the levels.
- There will be no secrets or secret passageways in wells, fireplaces or behind walls.
- Big fonts will be used, even when reading a placard on a wall..
- Arrows will have no arc.
- Garrett will have a sidekick with him.
- Garrett will die at the end.
- Garrett will give the torch to someone else at the end.
- Levels will have TDS-like shadow pathways showing you where to go everywhere.
- Paintings on the walls will be generic, like TDS.
- Eric Brosius won't be doing the audio.
- T1 and T2 are seen as games that are "too slow"
- Garrett will be given ninja climbing skills.
- Garrett will begin missions without it being evident as to how he got there
- Garrett will need be able to spend money on other things like weapon upgrades, new clothes and a new apartment
- Rats, cats and other creatures will look robotic, like they were thrown in at the last second.
- Animations won't be motion-captured.
- There will be a lockpick mini-game (and there won't be a way for me to choose the T2 lockpicking style from the menu).
- There will be a bright blue frob highlight.
- Garrett will be able to toss marble statues 100 feet as if they're made of styrofoam.
- The 'mission loading' screens will be like TDS' with a load bar, screenshot and quotes. (How generic and uninspired can you get?)
- Climbing ladders will switch to 3rd person view.
- We won't be able to eat deer legs, apples, and bread.
- We won't be able to play the harp or piano.
- A sound meter will be added to the HUD.
- You won't be able to interact with very many objects in the environment.
- Most windows will be opaque as a way to save the framerate.
- The T2 lean (i.e., 'Q' and 'E') won't exist.

Okay, sorry... I could go on, as I'm sure everyone can. I just can't help it. After experiencing a lot of what I feel are sub-par things in T3, I just don't want a repeat.

Fatherwoodsie
1st Jul 2009, 08:19
good point about the big blue highlights, those really killed it didnt it? espeically when you steal a painting and the whole painting highlighted bright blue, how childish was that.....ok billy, find the big blue picture and shove it up your rear! lol

and i love the exicitng feeling i got when id douse a fire in a fireplace and sneak in and have every idiot running around trying to look for me while i crawl in the corner and laugh my as off for 10 minutes. when i get into an untouchable spot where everyone is after me, i can sit there for a some time and just soak in the excitment :)

Sparker
1st Jul 2009, 12:30
Hmm garrett stands alone....

I can see where this argument stands from, but surely if you don't want to make allies you don't need to.

My view of it is, that Garrett understands that sometimes allies can over rather lucritive information and services.

He may operate alone, but he is a master theif and doubtless has plenty of "contacts"

Doesn't garrett mention in TMA fist mission that he helps basso rescue his gf, on the grounds that basso will owe him a favour.

"And in my line of work, you can never have to many of those"

I think having contacts etc Is in line with garrett but obviously you disagree. :)

xDarknessFallsx
1st Jul 2009, 17:15
Oooh, don't get me too wrong. I personally loved the Basso mission! I loved making sure the coast was clear and then signaling him with the birdcall, and running around the level with him and Genivieve(?). It was the first mission I played in the Thief series, and I wish there were a few more missions where I got to use the subtle birdcall (I loved that thing) or where there were some 'friends' that I had to briefly meet 'like Basso', or that I stumbled upon midway thru a mission, while in the level. (Friends at fences are not what I'm talking about. I want them incorporated into a mission like the Basso mission. And only 2 or 3 brief times max thru the game... nothing overdone.)

My frear is having a perpetual sidekick, like Resident Evil 5 or the new Prince of Persia -- you know, all these games that insist on giving you a friend or batallion to run around with the whole time. I like Garrett being alone and seemingly a loner. I don't want to constantly hear a sidekick beside me making repetitive and dumb comments, or reassuring me when it's a scary area, or giving me health or arrows when I'm low. I want the solo experience. The more you feel alone and vulnerable in the shadows, the more satisfying the gameplay is.

Fatherwoodsie
1st Jul 2009, 17:48
yeah waht i meant when i said garrett stands alone was that he works alone, not necessarily that he doesnt do any moonlighting ;)

PJMaybe
1st Jul 2009, 21:39
You will be disappointed then. Because the past is the past.
Yes, the past is the past and we should learn from the past - like we can learn that DS was not nearly as good as the originals. If it aint broke, don't try to fix it!

My biggest fear is that they will not be interested in preserving good ideas or in Thief as a series with the potential for future Thief projects but will be looking at short term sales with impressive graphics and wide platform compatibility - like what happened with DS.

minus0ne
2nd Jul 2009, 02:03
I mostly fear that it will be DS's progeny in all respects.
Honestly, it could be a billion times worse. TDS may not have been the ideal game for Thief fans, but it's far from the worst sequel I've played (in fact it's better than most by far), and I still feel the Cradle is one of the best Thief missions of all three games (including Thief Gold), and that's not all it's got going for it.

I'd be happily surprised if Thief 4 could live up to TDS standards, although I'm hoping it'll be (much) longer and bigger (larger hubs - if not hubs incorporated into the missions like TMA, more missions), delve deeper, and plunge the player further into the mysterious fantasy-steampunk-like world that we all love.

Little or nothing is known at the time, so in my view, I'm still keeping my fingers crossed for something that surpasses TMA. Crazier things have happened.

Atropos19
2nd Jul 2009, 05:30
I Fear…
-crappy sound/score
-load screens anywhere in levels
-cheesy ragdoll physics
-3rd person ( made me feel like I was cheating somehow…)
-the developers will not study the success of the T1/T2 fan mission level designs
-they will use the TDS engine, never really felt like I was in Garrett’s skin, ya know
-cross platform engine/graphics sacrifices
-small area’s
-sparkly frobable’s
-bad voice acting
-no replayability

Yeah, so I didn’t care much for TDS…after thousands of hours in hundreds of wonderful fan missions I’d almost just settle for a T2 dark engine upgrade. Hell, for that matter, I’d pay just to have TDS extracted from my memory as in Eternal Sunshine…!

Deathshadow did say it best in post #53. These developers do need to play some fan missions, he’s right, this is a good place to start… A Night in Rocksburg, Broken Triad, T2X, CoSaS X, etc. Also, DarknessFalls in post #114 is dead on as well.

Sierra Oscar
2nd Jul 2009, 20:11
The game being dumbed down for console users.

PJMaybe
2nd Jul 2009, 21:39
The game being dumbed down for console users.

I'm certain this will be the sad case of it.... but where have you got your info?

Fatherwoodsie
3rd Jul 2009, 05:26
i fear that the game will be too realistic in the sense that garrett will get out of breath and slow down from running to long....he will have to repair any wounds or damages to hisself, stupid stuff like that.

Fatherwoodsie
3rd Jul 2009, 08:01
wow yeah that would be pretty annoying to say the least. or maybe you have to feed the burracks to keep them alive so they can eat any rust mites that are gnawing away at the main piping

Kold
4th Jul 2009, 03:43
I am scared pissless the setting will change drastically (I want it to still be set in The City, around about the same time as Garrett, even if the game is not centered around him). Also that the "time" will fast forward to something more Sci-Fi.. I like Sci-Fi (im a big Halo fan), but this is something I WANT to not change..

killerclick
5th Jul 2009, 16:25
The game will probably be changed to appeal to a wider demographic (i.e. idiots) and this is necessary because nowadays making games costs a lot of money and they need to sell a lot of copies to cover expenses. It has happened to the Rainbow Six and Elder Scrolls series and will probably happen to Thief as well. Flight sims are a dead genre because of this problem and it's only going to get worse.

I swear if I become a multimillionaire, instead of spending money to help kids in Africa I'm going to finance great games so that they can be made without regard for how well they will sell. I'm not sure why someone is not doing this already...

Fatherwoodsie
6th Jul 2009, 01:10
thats what i was thinking. the biggest way they can sellout is to make it into a fairy colored world of warcrap

zombie32
6th Jul 2009, 06:37
In response to what do I fear the most, I would say the inability to select mouse invert. Although the original games always allowed for this, I have seen many other games which do not allow the choice of inverting the mouse response. Like a flight simulator, when I pull back on the mouse I look up, and when I push forward I look down, and that seems natural to me. And, while I'm on the mouse, I could not believe that TDS did not have a mouse sensitivity adjustment! I know there was a way to modify the sensitivity, which I learned from the forums, so I was able to work around the problem. Thank god for people smarter than me who are willing to share their knowledge.

FriendlyStranger
6th Jul 2009, 09:39
Wow I always wanted to meet a person actually using this feature "mouse invert".

What's your reason for inverting the mouse, I would get completely roughed up when doing so.

Fatherwoodsie
29th Jul 2009, 23:02
ok this is what i fear for thief 4

i fear that there will be tons of annoying mid-cut-scenes in the middle of a level. sort of like final fantasy or the new sonic the hedgehog, where this is a freakin story every 2 minutes where you have to keep on clicking "next" to actually get to playing the game. i love the cutscenes before and after each mission, yes, that is a must have, with the black and white sketches like t1 and 2.... but NO little stories and talking to people and any kind of "scene" where its set up as a little movie.... do you guys know what im trying to say? theres tons of games where 90% of the game consists of movies!! like devil may cry 4. thers just too much crap movies that make the game unejoyable. or another example, like in Zelda for N64... how theres text on the screen that you have to read every freakin 10 seconds, its soo annoying!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RI7LPbNyVtw
please watch this to see what im saying

Pieter888
30th Jul 2009, 07:39
I do not fear for anything right now. Eidos is watching this forum. they know every member on this forum would buy the game if they listen to our wishes, and our wishes have become crystal clear for them. And when all of those goals have been accomplished there just gonna need to trow in some high quality graphics to get the "Other" people to play the game to. Solid plan.

Pieter888
30th Jul 2009, 07:54
very true, but the people that know what thief really is about here, totally outnumber them making them look like a joke. I hope the devs see this to. We don't want to spend 10 upgrade points into my abilities before each mission starts, we don't want see a shiney glimps around garrett's body (from 3rd person view) to see he has just leveled up because he totally killed that bird that was on the roof with your heat-sensoring arrow and because a guard saw you killing the bird, you just kill him to, just for the sake of exp. points.

Let's keep a stealth game, a stealth game. who's with me?

kin
30th Jul 2009, 08:07
What do you FEAR for Thief 4?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v302/Selisios/various/bullet-timegarrett.jpg

Hamadriyad
30th Jul 2009, 09:40
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v302/Selisios/various/bullet-timegarrett.jpg

:lmao:
Can you add arrows insead of bullets?
(by the way, this is a repeat post. Where the hell are my and jtr7's posts? Weird.)

kin
30th Jul 2009, 09:47
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v302/Selisios/various/bullet-timegarrett-1.jpg

Hamadriyad
30th Jul 2009, 10:02
Haha. I mixed the threads.

Hahaha. Better with arrows.:D

PJMaybe
30th Jul 2009, 10:17
nowadays making games costs a lot of money and they need to sell a lot of copies to cover expenses

Does anyone know approx how much it would cost to make a decent game?

Pieter888
30th Jul 2009, 10:25
nowadays making games costs a lot of money and they need to sell a lot of copies to cover expenses

fixed

nowadays making games costs a lot of money and they don't sell a lot of copies because everyone pirates them anyways so it's hard to cover expenses which is the reason they need to do everything to sell the highest possible number of copies by adding RPG elements because everyone loves them....Right?:rolleyes:

Fatherwoodsie
30th Jul 2009, 15:43
man if it means buying a new copy of thief 4 every 6 months just to keep up the sales and keep it a FPS game, ill do it! they dont need to lure in people with RPG elements....they need to find other means! we all need to help spread the word and convert people to Thief. i already got one freind on it. they should invest a little more money on advertising. is it cheaper to add RPG elements into any game, is that why everyones jumping on the wagon?

elfnik
30th Jul 2009, 17:49
-Player movement system even slightly worse than in TDP. (C'mon that game was made 11 years ago. You should be able to do better.)
-3rd person restrictions affecting 1st person gameplay. (Wide open areas, uncontrollable movement, unable to look up or down)
-No Garrett (Even if the girl is the main character, she has to be played by Stephen Russell, in Garrett's voice.)
-Garrett is modified (More mainstream main character with compassion, unselfishness and more mass appeal.)
-Buggy AI (In TDS people walked into campfires and killed themselves, only to alert people to kill me for it. A room with only 1 entrance, two guards get stuck at the door indefinitely and the loot inside the room becomes unaquirable, restart mission.)
-Hard-coded, unsolvable problems (No rope arrows, arrow trails, 100% silent player movement, loot glint, "paint-blue"-frob highlight, 3rd person default view.)

ROFL balhahahahahahahaahah I definetly AGREE with you....hahaha u told everything I had in mind...especially: "Even if the girl is the main character, she has to be played by Stephen Russell, in Garrett's voice" awhahhahaahahhaah

Cheer my man!


I just want to tell something in addition...Probably some of the people here are fans of Fallout game (as I was before 3rd part)...They change the shape of Fallout 1 & 2 and lost the spirit which was fallout 1 & 2 made of, ruined the 3rd person view, put out the best parts of the game and changed core gameplay...well thats the recipe of destroying a legend....just learn from others mistakes...

Flashart
30th Jul 2009, 18:37
The RPG genre is very popular, and I guess you could argue that Thief is sort of an RPG, as you're "playing the role" of Garrett. So if any large concessions were to be made for the RPG community I'd like it in The Loadout screen/process. So you'd get the feeling of equipping Garrett in your own personal way, for your own personal game style. If they even wanted to play "dress up" here it wouldn't bother me as in 1st person I wouldn't be able to see it.
There could be extra weapons (even if they double up uses) as it gives at least the illusion of choice. You could also have the "tips" here, and the "dagger on the door" messages of side missions. It would give the feeling of providing a unique game experience.
Yes, it's pandering to the populist, but at least here it's fairly harmless, and steers a wide berth from exp points or skills etc.
Like it or not, T4 has to appeal to as wide a playing/paying audience as possible or there may never be a T5, if the single player game is really good I'd consider a little fluff on the edges a price worth paying.

ToMegaTherion
30th Jul 2009, 18:43
Thanks for reminding me about Fallout 3, I haven't played it for a while, I'd better remedy that now.

Fallout whiners need to remember that it wasn't a choice between a Bethesda FPS/RPG and a Black Isle isometric RPG, it was a choice between a Bethesda FPS/RPG and nothing. So the creation of Fallout 3 hasn't harmed people who don't like Bethesda FPS/RPGs, unless they were foolish enough to buy something they knew they weren't going to like, which is a bit of an error on their part.

Flashart
30th Jul 2009, 18:51
I've enjoyed all the Fallout games even "Tactics", you can't really compare Fallout 3 to the rest. In and of itself it wasn't bad, although the ending was rubbish.

ToMegaTherion
30th Jul 2009, 19:00
I don't know why you feel the need to say "even" Tactics; it's clearly a fun game. People who whine about Tactics are even weirder than those that whine about Fallout 3.

Mastone
30th Jul 2009, 19:09
I am just glad that they are making another Thief, i am not worried that they will screw up i liked thief 3 very much and hope they make something like that.
As long as they don't make it a MMORPG i am okay with that.
As said before it takes a lot of money and effort to make a game nowadays so be glad they make thief

xDarknessFallsx
31st Jul 2009, 04:39
What if they made their own Dark engine from scratch, like the original T1/T2 chaps did? Would you be worried it would suffer a T3 fate?

LOL! Awesome Kin!!

xDarknessFallsx
31st Jul 2009, 04:45
I fe4r thi4f will have a Garrett vs. Darth Vader ending battle. And it is revealed Vader is Garrett's uncle.

Squid
31st Jul 2009, 09:35
For one, I fear that they will develop the game to be played through in about 10 to 12 hours... and that's counting reloads. I can't recall just how long it took me to get through Thief Dark Project when I first played it, but it was days. We want something that, even without counting in reloads or the fact we're talking about a stealth based game, we can savor and enjoy.

Squid

Flashart
31st Jul 2009, 11:32
I agree about some of the color in TDS but not about the gloom. I think the point was to emphasize that the shadows could be hid in, where in brightly lit corridors it would be harder to believe. I thought the one aspect that TDS did well was it's use of appropriate light sources and levels for each interior, far superior to anything in the previous games. But you'd expect that from more advanced graphic cards The museum at night is a great example, it wouldn't be completely lit, and would be gloomy. BUT! The "mono" aspect of the colors did severely hamper the effect.
The Steampunk setting spans a lot of different eras, "medieval" candles, "Victorian" gas light, and more modern electricity. Anyone that's seen actual Victorian gas lighting will know it's not great. The mantle tends to cast a "greenish" gloomy hue over everything, more in keeping with the look of "The Cradle". The quality of the electric light seems to vary from game to game and mission to mission. Not necessarily a bad thing.
Anyone remember the original "Quake"? Everything seemed to be bathed in brown, a similar effect.
For those in the UK, imagine finding your way around Warwick Castle at night with just candles, it would be incredibly difficult.

Mistress Vixen
1st Aug 2009, 16:05
My biggest fears are:
Lack of Garett, I want him back!.
A move to modernise the setting, I want medieval and gothic
Horrible split levels with clouds and huge loading times

Biggest wish to have Viktoria back

Hamadriyad
1st Aug 2009, 19:54
Your biggest wish is one of my fears.

met4baron
2nd Aug 2009, 14:41
.. this sentence, which scares me to death:

The legendary series is back with another instalment that is set to redefine the world of gaming yet again. Be part of it here.....

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

they don`t have do redefine something. just take the superb source material and
plot . make a successor, which is worth the name/brand THIEF.
catch the spirit of the THIEF-series. play it first (if you`ve not done already)....THEN sit down and develop a new episode.


..THERE WILL BE NO GARRETT....:mad2:

(ok! let`s gettin serious. if there`s no garrett and they will bring up a female main-character, they can call it

!!-LooT-RaideR-!!

with a rope-hanging super-boobie with tight close and......oh...stop...surprise...we already got this. :rasp:

..focussing on superb graphics and all effects that are possible

( thief is not a game of graphics...it is more the sound which makes the game so special )

..displaying all this nice hints in the loading - screens, which is a guaranteed killer of any athmosphere. you know, hints like:

"using the dagger on the watchmen from behind can do him more harm, then attack him in front. and it gives you achievements" (possible xbox-360-version of a loading-screen) :scratch:

or

"falling from a roof can kill you. so for your own sake, avoid this" :scratch:

and so on and so on
if you want to do something like this for people who don`t want to read the manuals, make this for an option.
or create a training in the beginning, that shows the handling. this in combination with a intuitive control will do well :D

...using such a limited graphis-engine, which only shows micro-levels, so the engine has to load from house to house or road to road. it is the next athmosphere-killer. :mad2:

..using an AI, which reduces the name "AI" to absurdity.

you know: watchmen , who find colleagues lying on the floor and sayin:
"ok! who`s responsible for this?" and then they continuing their duty. :mad2:

..DONT MAKE THE LOOT GLOWING IN THE DARK. i mean. do you got pictures on th wall or vases on the sideboard, which are glowing like they are painted with luminous-paint? this also should only be a option for the lazy people, who don`t wanna search for something in the dark. :lol:


if you are not shure how to create a game like this or need inspiration, look at
www.thedarkmod.com. and there are many more sites for insoration. they catch the spirit. ;)

this is a very special scene with special demands. don`t dissapoint us, like
THIEF3 already does (ok..ok...except the "cradle") in so many ways. :(

create an up-to-date looking instalment, which is orientated on the first 2 episodes.

cheers

mb :wave:

Hamadriyad
2nd Aug 2009, 16:03
"The legendary series is back with another instalment that is set to redefine the world of gaming yet again. Be part of it here....."
I can't understand what is so wrong in this sentence?
I don't expect shiny graphics but I dpn't want to see bad graphics too. Damn it, year is 2009. Especially lights, shadows should be perfect.

met4baron
2nd Aug 2009, 16:16
"The legendary series is back with another instalment that is set to redefine the world of gaming yet again. Be part of it here....."
I can't understand what is so wrong in this sentence?
I don't expect shiny graphics but I dpn't want to see bad graphics too. Damn it, year is 2009. Especially lights, shadows should be perfect.


for years thief was neglected. thealthy gameplay dead like dog-poop.
and now it is a legend to revive? excuse me, that i`m suspicious.

I´m afraid...they won`t keep the old scene AND satisfy newbies in the same time with the same game!!

It will be my darkest hour as a thief-fan to see, that they will make a geourgious lookin action-game out of it.

( 3rd person perspective = worst case !!!)

and...naturally..:the grafics has to be appropriate....but it isn`t essential. :-)

Hamadriyad
2nd Aug 2009, 16:35
Stealthy gameplay is dead? When did it die?

Quad
2nd Aug 2009, 18:14
Simply put, my biggest fear is that EM doesn't/won't/can't listen to the many suggestions of the many hardcore taffers who know their stuff and who know exactly what the pro's and contra's are.

Can you imagine how many players will lose their soul/believe/hope when Thief IV hits the shelves, only to find out that after 9 years of begging, their voice isn't heared ... AGAIN ?

Can somebody tell me why ?


The most important points are on another thread : "FOR THE DEVS: What was wrong with TDS you may ask?"

But if I don't have to fear, because if the devs DO listen to us, then people, the world of Thief is in good hands again !

Yaphy
2nd Aug 2009, 18:27
Dont be to sure about that. Some games go straight down because the devs listen to much on the fans. Remember that its more people that will buy this game then the folks here on this forum. People that isnt hardcore fans or even know the previouse games at all. Many people will still buy the game because it seems intresting. But this can go wrong if the devs listen to much at the fans it might be a bad game at the end. Its good to brainstorm though, give eachother ideas and inspire the devs. But games has been horrible before because of the to nice and listening devs.

Quad
2nd Aug 2009, 18:41
After T2, I've been wishing for T3 for so long. The same thing happenend back then: a forum was opened with suggestions/ideas. Guess what: TDS happened... and I can assure you I felt robbed after 30 minutes playing, not being heared. I don't care about that thing. So if this is my chance to let my voice heared, I will do it and with more strength than ever before, because what we want is pretty simple.

What I want is exactly what GManPro described (and myself) and a lot of others who took the time to let themselves being heared. To take a chance.

Dev's are humans too. I hope that we are taken into concideration this time. If not, then next time, EM might as well make a forum which denies access to hardcore taffers with the message : "Don't mention TDP or TMA or you'll be permanently banned!"

So, don't stimulate the suggestions for another TDS. Stimulate the real Thief.

Yaphy
2nd Aug 2009, 19:02
Yes, you are right. We need to be heard, and I want to be heard to. I'm just saying its not as simple as it sounds. They need to find a balance, thats all. Please give more sugestions so they can make the best Thief game ever, but dont think it will be that just because they listen to all the people who think they know all about game development.

Quad
2nd Aug 2009, 19:31
Clearly defining the lines of what the devs will make, isn't an easy task imo. The problem or "the fear" I have are the visions and experiences of the devs themselves when it comes to feeling the Thief-universe. Do we have confirmation that every 80 of them played through all the Thief games ? Do they actually WANT to be a thief ? Because if not, how on earth will they understand what all the rambling of the hardcore players is about ? Ghosts from the past still trying to hount the "fresh" and "young" minds of today who are eager to put their own soul into the game, making it "their" Thief and ending up with something "they" like and who couldn't care less for the sad desillusioned reactions of people like me? It's not even unrealistic to believe that those people who do like TDS, won't be disappointed at all with ANY new Thief game. If they liked TDS, then they might as well like anything with that name on it. Easy people to please, I hope?

That's why suggestions for a better Thief IV on other threads are so important. It's the only thing we have. We make it easy for them. Very easy.

I am not better in any field (or maybe graphics as a hobby) than the devs, let that be understood. It's not my task to take that into account, although I am by no means an idiot, so I do know a little about it. Some things are too difficult or time-consuming to ask. Others are not because they basically fall back on the technology of 8 years ago. I don't think you have to be a genius to see what is doable and what not.

Yaphy
2nd Aug 2009, 20:57
Its not really sure that everyone of the devs has played the previouse games. But I sertainly hope so.
*waiting for answer from René in the Citywatch thread!

met4baron
3rd Aug 2009, 06:59
Clearly defining the lines of what the devs will make, isn't an easy task imo. The problem or "the fear" I have are the visions and experiences of the devs themselves when it comes to feeling the Thief-universe. Do we have confirmation that every 80 of them played through all the Thief games ? Do they actually WANT to be a thief ? Because if not, how on earth will they understand what all the rambling of the hardcore players is about ? Ghosts from the past still trying to hount the "fresh" and "young" minds of today who are eager to put their own soul into the game, making it "their" Thief and ending up with something "they" like and who couldn't care less for the sad desillusioned reactions of people like me? It's not even unrealistic to believe that those people who do like TDS, won't be disappointed at all with ANY new Thief game. If they liked TDS, then they might as well like anything with that name on it. Easy people to please, I hope?

That's why suggestions for a better Thief IV on other threads are so important. It's the only thing we have. We make it easy for them. Very easy.

I am not better in any field (or maybe graphics as a hobby) than the devs, let that be understood. It's not my task to take that into account, although I am by no means an idiot, so I do know a little about it. Some things are too difficult or time-consuming to ask. Others are not because they basically fall back on the technology of 8 years ago. I don't think you have to be a genius to see what is doable and what not.


i agree to every single point :)

and now... DEV...read this and MAKE THE BEST OF IT :)

cheers

-michael-

Reyn
3rd Aug 2009, 17:11
More on the evolution that DS took, less of what made 1 & 2 so intimate and unique. It's all in what the developers (or maybe publishers) feel is more important. Integrity, respect for roots? or $$$?

I'm going out on a limb here because I'm new, I don't know any other Thief fans yet, but I'd like to think we see this more as an artform and don't want it turned into more of a "product".

kabatta
3rd Aug 2009, 17:55
Ok..now i tought of wikkan type pagans and got creeped out. :( Not my precious pagans.
(no religious discrimination intended)

Squid
4th Aug 2009, 01:44
Clearly defining the lines of what the devs will make, isn't an easy task imo. The problem or "the fear" I have are the visions and experiences of the devs themselves when it comes to feeling the Thief-universe. Do we have confirmation that every 80 of them played through all the Thief games?

Just a side note... to my recollection, most of the developers of TDS played the previous two games. So, whether they play all of the previous games is no guarantee that what we'll see in T4 will bear any resemblance to the previous three.

I do remember that before TDS came out we had the same concerns about it that we now have about T4. TDS, I think we can all agree, did not turn out like T1&2... there were elements of it we liked, and elements we didn't like. Whether you like the game or not, you can see that it turned out very different from the previous two.

Squid

RAMMONS444
4th Aug 2009, 16:49
I fear:

- overly sophisticated gameplay, graphics, bells & whistles, etc. that divert attention away from a good storyline and characters. When I recall my favorite games it's almost always the gameplay and story that make it memorable.
- not having Stephen Russell's voice for Garrett
- no briefings in black&white between missions
- not enough effort put into sound design
- missions being too short
- the overall game being too short
- not having optional secrets
- game design being too linear (having freedom to complete the mission in more than one way is better).
- finally, I don't want to see it too much like T1,2,3. It's important to retain the look and feel of the early games, but some change can be good. I think I could even accept a different time period, but would definately prefer the steam-punk age, or similar.

Definitely - not having Stephen Russell's voice for Garrett
and
- finally, I don't want to see it too much like T1,2,3. It's important to retain the look and feel of the early games, but some change can be good. I think I could even accept a different time period, but would definately prefer the steam-punk age, or similar.:lmao:

ⓣⓐⓕⓕⓔⓡ
10th Aug 2009, 19:44
I fear;

- How angry the children will be when they realise Thief 4 is a proper sequel and not a rehash of the original two games!

At the same time it is pretty funny as well of course. ;)

Pieter888
10th Aug 2009, 19:53
What was broken that needs fixing?

Nothing really, but you can polish what has been made already.

The only real change would be the story and missions.
Things they could improve for instance is:

Atmosphere
Shadow effects
AI's
Apperance
fluid animation
etc.

lolpants
10th Aug 2009, 21:15
I fear guys like the one in this thread (http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=91787). Releasing in incomplete games is the cancer killing video games. The guy in this thread already expects it and hopes for it.

ToMegaTherion
10th Aug 2009, 21:24
That is quite an impressive misreading of a thread. Good work!

lolpants
10th Aug 2009, 21:42
That is quite an impressive misreading of a thread. Good work!
Assuming you were speaking to me, note these:

A, 8 new missions continuing the T4 story
B, 8 new missions with a new "mini-story"
C, 8 new individual missions
Finally, any "extra content"? Interviews, Artwork, Soundtrack etc
All of these are things that should/could be included in the original game. I'm sick of developers releasing two thirds of a game and then coughing up the last 1/3rd in "DLC" (a la Fallout 3). 5 expansions x $19.99 = $100 for about 1/3rd of a game. And don't get me started on The Sims.

ⓣⓐⓕⓕⓔⓡ
10th Aug 2009, 22:09
:mad2::mad2::mad2:

http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1854362


Educate yourself and move forward. And the ironic 'children' statement makes a different kind of statement.

I don't post on TTLG, I have no reason to post amongst a bunch of idiots who ban and warn others who want to defend Thief Deadly Shadows from a "good ol'" zealot-bashing. The amount of DS-bashing on there is ridiculous and you guys are hostile to anyone who dares like Deadly Shadows, so you have to "ROFLCOPTER THIS GUY IS A TROLL" them out of the forum with some sly put-downs from resident troll ZylonBane.

Ridiculous, and your loss, as you fail to ADAPT to newer games which are as good as the originals. They do not "suck" because they differ from them.

Telex
10th Aug 2009, 22:58
Ridiculous, and your loss, as you fail to ADAPT to newer games which are as good as the originals. They do not "suck" because they differ from them.

TDS was not as good as the originals. The only way this argument can be made would be in terms of graphics, which is ridiculous as they were released so far apart. I don't think TDS sucked because it differed from the originals, I think it wasn't great because of numerous glitches and a buggy interface. That being said, it was a good game.

You yourself seem to be incredibly interested in picking a fight with those who do not share your views in terms of which game is the best. Strike you as hypocritical?

ⓣⓐⓕⓕⓔⓡ
10th Aug 2009, 23:07
TDS was not as good as the originals.

I like how you class your opinion as fact. Your opinion matters to no one only you.



You yourself seem to be incredibly interested in picking a fight with those who do not share your views in terms of which game is the best. Strike you as hypocritical?

Opinion = picking a fight?

Take a chill pill. You should be able to handle a response on the forum without getting personal. If you can't stick to the topic I'll just not respond to your posts.

Lady_Of_The_Vine
11th Aug 2009, 00:12
I like how you class your opinion as fact. Your opinion matters to no one only you.
It is an opinion and was never stated as absolute fact, only you say this. Also, OP added to their comment, so you need to read all of the message rather than quoting and responding to only one small part of it - this avoids misinterpretation.



Opinion = picking a fight?

Take a chill pill. You should be able to handle a response on the forum without getting personal. If you can't stick to the topic I'll just not respond to your posts.

If you hold your own opinion as relevant, then you must do the same for others. If you wish to tell someone that they should handle a response on a forum without getting personal, then you need to practice what you preach otherwise it is hypocrisy. Please read your posts as if it were someone else responding to you and if it sounds like it could be taken the wrong way, edit it and then hit the post button. It helps to take your time.

Telex
11th Aug 2009, 00:13
I like how you class your opinion as fact. Your opinion matters to no one only you.


Hah, okay. Seeing as you won't allow me to present a counterpoint to your argument without getting defensive, I'm going to let it go.

Anyway, this has diverged off-topic enough already. My BIGGEST fear for T4 has got to be one word: cancellation. That or seeing it become vaporware.

Lady_Of_The_Vine
11th Aug 2009, 00:18
My BIGGEST fear for T4 has got to be one word: cancellation. That or seeing it become vaporware.

I certainly doubt T4 will be cancelled, but I understand your fear as it isn't an unknown occurence in the gaming world.

CerraMorgan
11th Aug 2009, 00:47
:eek: EEK! Don't even suggest cancellation!

My biggest fear is that T4 will be as disappointing as TDS. Note that I'm not saying "as bad as" because there were some things in TDS that I did like, in particular the fact that someone actually took the time to make it.

Bottom line - no matter what happens, I'll probably buy it anyway, assuming that there is a PC version. I've got fingers, toes, eyes, and everything else crossed that it's at least as good as TMA (my favourite of the 3) and hopefully awesomely better given the advances in technology since then. :D

ToMegaTherion
11th Aug 2009, 08:46
Assuming you were speaking to me, note these:



A, 8 new missions continuing the T4 story
B, 8 new missions with a new "mini-story"
C, 8 new individual missions
Finally, any "extra content"? Interviews, Artwork, Soundtrack etc

All of these are things that should/could be included in the original game. I'm sick of developers releasing two thirds of a game and then coughing up the last 1/3rd in "DLC" (a la Fallout 3). 5 expansions x $19.99 = $100 for about 1/3rd of a game. And don't get me started on The Sims.

So let's suppose that 8 new missions continuing the T4 story are included in the original game. Then how about an expansion pack containing another 8 new missions continuing the T4 story. Oh wait, they should be included in the original game as well! And so on.

Expansion packs containing extra missions have been around for years, and aren't at all considered unacceptable (when priced right). There's nothing at all poisonous about them. They involve the designers making new stuff. If they've put enough stuff in the main game for it to be worth its price, and then they make some more stuff later, it seems quite reasonable to pay them for their services.

ToMegaTherion
11th Aug 2009, 10:32
As usual that has absolutely nothing to do with what I'm saying. But perhaps on this occasion I have been too brief in my explanation.

lolpants criticises an expansion pack that contains 8 new missions, purely on the grounds that those 8 new missions should have been released in the original game. Let us suppose that this point is correct, and the 8 new missions should be and are released in the original game. Then, one could consider releasing an expansion pack with 8 new mission in. But then presumably lolpants logic dictates that these new missions should have been released in the previous game. This can continue as long as we like, until it becomes abundantly clear that lolpants is being silly.

Whether you think an expansion pack with 8 new missions is not a good idea for entirely different reasons is beside the point. I am merely pointing out that lolpants logic is not particularly good logic.

The Deadly Shadow
11th Aug 2009, 12:31
My biggest fear would be no multiplayer. I think the online co-op would be really fun sneaking around with a friend or party using mics. I'd love this and it's a relatively new thing for online play that Eidos have to implement!! :D

xDarknessFallsx
11th Aug 2009, 13:56
Going back to the expansion pack argument, by voting for B I'm not condoning that T4 become a short 9 mission game where the expansion pack becomes the last 1/3 of the game that should've originally shipped.

Instead, the shipped T4 needs to be a FULL game that is reminiscent (the same or larger) in size to T1/T2. Don't know how many missions they were in those offhand, but around 15 LARGE levels each? That is what I am expecting for T4. And then a period of time later, I wish for an expansion pack to come out where we get a new campaign that is at least 4 to 6 new large levels. Perhaps a new mini-story that brings back more characters or plot elements of the original Thief world that T4 doesn't already incorporate; Karras and bots, for example, if T4 doesn't already bring much of this group. (Only an example.)

The expansion pack should not be "in lieu of" an SDK or map editor being released. In my opinion, there should be both.

And if we get a short campaign in T4 (i.e., a game that is not as big and quality-made as T1/T2), only to see a purchasable expansion pack and a bunch of add-on content come out post-launch, I would feel a bit swindled by EM.

I whole-heartedly agree that there's too big of trend these days for games to short-change us at launch, then require the purchase of additional materials after release (sometimes a week or two after release), just to nickle-and-dime us. This is an industry pattern that needs to stop.

Flashart
11th Aug 2009, 16:24
I like the idea of expansions, done well they can turn a good game into truly a great game. They can offer something for the "fans", as you've probably got the original, maybe a little less "dumbed down"
A short story, hinted at in the OG could be expanded upon, or they could use it to further the OG or even run parallel with it.
Or use it for a completely different story, maybe in a different place. Or a "Theme" (Undead etc) There's quite a large scope for ideas.
Individual missions (Official FMs) could also be good, pull off some real complicated heists.
FM's stand alone, they don't suffer from lack of character or story, some thrive on it.
Best expansions for me were the original Neverwinter nights, "Underdark" I thought was particularly well done.

xDarknessFallsx
12th Aug 2009, 05:02
No, the add-ons are not more important that good solid main game. I didn't say it was. Was T1 not a good solid main game before Gold came out?

PS: You almost make it sound like EM is donating their time and game to us and they won't reap any profits from it. Maybe with the sales of the main game, at $60 a pop and good sales, they will be provided more dev time and money to make an expansion.

Or, if that isn't enough for them to make a freebie expansion, then if they make a 6- or 8-mission campaign expansion pack sometime within the 12 months AFTER delivering a solid and expansive T4 experience, I'll say now I'll pay $30 for it. Ensemble Studios made a couple good expansion packs back in the day for Age of Empires and charged $25 or $30 for each; because they felt like another complete game almost. I'm not in favor of being nickle-and-dimed, but this scenario would not make me feel as though I am. It's only when a game comes out and within weeks they're releasing new skins, weapons, missions and other downloadable content for $1.99-$9.99 a pop that I get peeved.

xDarknessFallsx
12th Aug 2009, 06:39
Y'er such a pessimist! :) Worry not. The light of Thief 4 shall cast a shadow behind you for you to hide in. If the expansion pack doesn't come out for 2 years post-Thief 4, that's fine. I wouldn't care. By the time Thi4f ships, they'll be experts using the tools they forged; wrought from the binary code of the H4mmer. So a good expansion to come out a year or two later isn't that tall of order, if it's a good, capable team.

I don't understand your first paragraph, but oh well. It didn't sound too constructive.

You seem to shoot for mediocrity a lot. You shouldn't suppress your wishes and ambitions so easily.

I bet EM is laughing on the side, wringing their hands with delight as they watch your posts; as they get ready to blanket your pessimism with Th4f wonder. You will be impressed with an Age of EM Enlightenment.

Secondary
14th Aug 2009, 00:48
what i fear is

poor voice acting
hameplay made to a ppeal to an increasingly violent clientele
restricting level design
minimalism
futuristic or modern setting
rope arrows left out again
trashy plot
multiplayer (shudder)
chunky soundtrack (the sound in TDS was pretty superb. but alas, today we are seeing the decline of the sound track. take a look at prince of persia, it started out as a pretty solid middle-eastern set game, but as the sequels came out somehow metal found its way into the soundtrack and the female characters lost all their clothes, wtf)

ToMegaTherion
14th Aug 2009, 08:44
That's because everything is better with metal!

anythieve
18th Aug 2009, 12:12
more? realism. seperate skills for visual & audio. that means
1. a guards see you and react from at least 30 meters away!
b guards can re light torches candles etc. wasnt that promised on t2 box??
c alternatable ai. general alarm, guards coop tactical manouvers. or not!
d just thought up maybe guards personality and ai-skill from weak from start or baffords like
objects to clever & sneaky..
!2.! guards that cant hear you from 5-10 meters away. better would be standard from game start
if not so as a given object (silent shoes etc) when game progresses. like climbing cloves..
2b if engine is capable also on + off switchable. maybe louder walking sounds when garrett? comes
out of the water due to water adhesion!?
3. news and frightful sounds textures etc. not the ones from other infamous eidos "games".
4. non respawning robots.. in case there should be anymore continuation of system shocks..

Davehall380
19th Aug 2009, 20:15
That it will be just like Thief: Deadly Shadows

Hornpipe
20th Aug 2009, 14:09
About Fallout 3 :

Fallout 3 was short, animations were weird and Fallout 3D engine was just a copy of Oblivion 3D engine.

Gameplay in Fallout 3 was not a problem : it was ok.

The problem was the Bethesda politic which consist of garbages recycling, releasing incomplete game with tons of payant patchs. Fine, it works and they get money, but I hope they'll change their mind, for their own sake... Contract is a pact which implies equal benefits for the two parts.

About Thief IV :

I fear Bethesda buying the licence.

Neb
16th Jun 2010, 07:54
Old thread, but still relevant.

I fear an angsty game that takes itself seriously and can't revel in a bit of humour here and there.

I fear the man-child caricature that companies want to develop for.

I fear the developers being too crushed between the expectations of new players, old players, journalists, and Square-Enix big-wigs to indulge in letting their imaginations take them somewhere that's rarely seen in current mass market entertainment.

I want to play something that makes me feel something. Tension, wonder, mystery, horror, laughter. I'm assuming that they'll be expecting the people who are going to buy the game to possess a soul too, so why not cater to that.

Tryst
16th Jun 2010, 13:11
What I fear most is that it will be brought out for consoles with just lip service paid to PC users. While I have no objection to the console development, it should be ported to the PC without the limitations of the console. Therefore, the superior architecture of the PC should allow a game to utilise the full potential.

If I wanted to play and Xbox version on the PC, I'd go out and get a Xbox Emulator.

Lord Jambrek
16th Jun 2010, 16:46
The one and only thing I fear in Thief IV is the lenght of the campaign.

All new games are very very short. I'm fearing that Thief IV will be a 3-4hr game followed by stupid DLC's (which will cost probably, as most do)

Ehl
16th Jun 2010, 20:11
What I fear in Thief IV :

-No Garrett
-Too Many zombies and robots
-Short campaign and small levels
-3rd person view only

xDarknessFallsx
17th Jun 2010, 03:33
I think he was just saying "too many" zombies and robots would be bad. I agree. I think they can be overdone. I like zombies in low doses. Robots in low to medium doses is okay. The cameras are okay in decent doses, but I don't consider them "robots," per se.

I fear T4 trying to make chracters look tough by doing cheesy poses like this:
http://xbox360media.ign.com/xbox360/image/article/109/1097565/assassins-creed-brotherhood-20100614064119778.jpg

And this...

http://ps3.ign.com/dor/objects/57511/assassins-creed-brotherhood/images/assassins-creed-brotherhood-20100614064141263.html

I don't want to see such poses, attitudes or associated bad-a** walk styles in T4 concept art, trailers or the game. Let Assassin's Creed try to hard, inevitibly resulting in having cheesy character poses like this... not Thief.

Fatherwoodsie
17th Jun 2010, 04:57
aw i think it would be more fun to steal loot from a gaurd thats "struttin around".... it gives me something to really snicker at

xAcerbusx
17th Jun 2010, 05:05
aw i think it would be more fun to steal loot from a gaurd thats "struttin around".... it gives me something to really snicker at

There's already plenty of that.

I personally love pickpocketing the guard who's quietly muttering to himself "...if I were runnin' things... this city would be alot safer..."

As for my fears for Thief IV:

I don't fear game design choices. First-person-only would be mildly annoying for me, but I'd deal.

My trepidation revolves around the story. I want a story that's as compelling as the first three games. I mean... Deadly Shadows wrapped everything up quite nicely... it's going to take a great writer to give an adequate excuse and a credible threat for Garrett / whoever the protagonist is in Thief 4.

xDarknessFallsx
17th Jun 2010, 05:11
aw i think it would be more fun to steal loot from a gaurd thats "struttin around".... it gives me something to really snicker at
I dunno... to me it looks like they got some guys from the local gym or bar bouncers, told them to look all mean and grr, then tossed Halloween costumes on them. Present day people and poses in a game set a time long ago. Reminds me of a video I saw for AC1 or AC2 where the main character was strutting down the street like he owned the place. Mixing present day arrogant looks and demeanors with old world just doesn't work for me very well. It's non sequitur; doesn't fit.

Tryst
17th Jun 2010, 06:01
I dunno... to me it looks like they got some guys from the local gym or bar bouncers, told them to look all mean and grr, then tossed Halloween costumes on them. Present day people and poses in a game set a time long ago. Reminds me of a video I saw for AC1 or AC2 where the main character was strutting down the street like he owned the place. Mixing present day arrogant looks and demeanors with old world just doesn't work for me very well. It's non sequitur; doesn't fit.
True, they have the arrogant stance of a nobleman. For City Watch guards, it just wouldn't be right for them to act so arrogant.

Nightwynd
17th Jun 2010, 07:43
i fear
- poor animation in cutscenes (like in TDS)
- poor voice acting (gawd like some of those woman bandits. in TDS)
- cramped level design. size matters
- throwing Garrett aside. But if Garrett isn't the playable character, they NEED to take distance - then i can live with it
- multiple playable characters
- RPG elements (i like RPG's, but not in Thief. please)
- 3rd person
- "the apprentice" - too cheap of a cliché for Thief
- poor soundtrack - this time i have no ill word about TDS as all have been awesome
- a clone of PoP or Assassin's Creed. i mean the acrobatic stuff here
- the sandbox syndrome (oblivion, gta)

Personally, i'd like to see a sword on the playable character again. instead of that dagger.
Also don't get me wrong; i don't want T4 to be a remake of the first 2 games. ofcourse i want to see the series to go somewhere and i want to see something very new.
But why not keep the good things from each game of this franchise, including TDS? And i really enjoyed TDS - but it wasn't as mind blowing as TDP and TMA.
TDP and TMA are really masterpieces as a whole. The story carrying cutscenes, the haunting tension of ambience, the sounds, the plot, the maps... :worship:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGJ5ry4bNJc i was truly horrified of this. still am.

Nightwynd
17th Jun 2010, 09:21
righto,

so i'll just clear few things then. imo TDS was an OK game.
i didn't like it (TDS) a little but a whole lotta less than DP&MA.
and yes, you may go ahead and call me a fanboy... for i can't deny being one. wholly biased, maybe. BUT i will consider to my best extent different POV's.

And i'll be definately buying the next game of my fav franchise.

Thanks for the welcome, jtr7. :)

xAcerbusx
17th Jun 2010, 11:32
:cool: :thumb:

Look out, though, no matter what you say good about TDS, or say you really enjoyed it, the fact you didn't like things and like it even a little less than the other titles, prepare to be accused of being wholly biased and a fanboy. :lol:

Welcome!

Similarly, beware of voicening a positive opinion about the Deadly Shadows. The same thing is likely to happen... except in that situation, jtr7 is curiously silent (assuming he isn't joining in).

ToMegaTherion
17th Jun 2010, 13:11
Similarly, beware of voicening a positive opinion about the Deadly Shadows. The same thing is likely to happen... except in that situation, jtr7 is curiously silent (assuming he isn't joining in).

Expect to be told how much you lack comprehension :)

Jack Lantern
17th Jun 2010, 19:06
My biggest fear for the new installment is pretty simple; I fear it won't be Thief. This series was born in a time when consoles didn't rule the market, and casual gamers didn't have the power they do now. In those days, Looking Glass simply made a game they wanted to make, allowing their creative juices to flow. Thief 1 and 2 were rare games that seemed almost as if all the stars were in alignment. And while Thief 3 took a step back in several ways, I believe that the game was still Thief in spirit; it simply took a few wrong turns.

But these days, console sales are all-important, where casual gamers and pretty graphics rule the day. While creative games are everywhere, many titles we fell in love with over the years have become "products". Don't get me wrong, Thief 4 should turn out gorgeous. Given today's consoles, there is simply no excuse. But my ultimate fear is that Thief would end up being a complete change in what Thief has always been about for the sake of a broader casual audience.

Jack Lantern
17th Jun 2010, 19:17
Similarly, beware of voicening a positive opinion about the Deadly Shadows. The same thing is likely to happen... except in that situation, jtr7 is curiously silent (assuming he isn't joining in).

There is nothing wrong with liking Deadly Shadows. It was a fine game, and critics liked it as well, so it's not like you're alone. If you liked DS MORE than the first two titles, yes, you are in the minority on THESE forums, but you're not "wrong". One game being better than another isn't a "fact"; it's an opinion.

AbysmalGale
17th Jun 2010, 19:56
My biggest fear for the new installment is pretty simple; I fear it won't be Thief. This series was born in a time when consoles didn't rule the market, and casual gamers didn't have the power they do now. In those days, Looking Glass simply made a game they wanted to make, allowing their creative juices to flow. Thief 1 and 2 were rare games that seemed almost as if all the stars were in alignment. And while Thief 3 took a step back in several ways, I believe that the game was still Thief in spirit; it simply took a few wrong turns.

But these days, console sales are all-important, where casual gamers and pretty graphics rule the day. While creative games are everywhere, many titles we fell in love with over the years have become "products". Don't get me wrong, Thief 4 should turn out gorgeous. Given today's consoles, there is simply no excuse. But my ultimate fear is that Thief would end up being a complete change in what Thief has always been about for the sake of a broader casual audience.

I agree with everything you say, except that I think the only real "Thief" spirit in TDS was the House of Widow Moira. Other than that level, TDS was a perfect example of how the console world affects the outcome of a game in a negative direction. Loading zones, 3rd person view, too few in-game restrictions (killing restrictions etc), too easy to collect cash and buy stuff, too short levels etc. Just too freakin' easy and dumbed down :P

Other than that I totally agree with your post.

Jack Lantern
17th Jun 2010, 20:46
I agree with everything you say, except that I think the only real "Thief" spirit in TDS was the House of Widow Moira. Other than that level, TDS was a perfect example of how the console world affects the outcome of a game in a negative direction. Loading zones, 3rd person view, too few in-game restrictions (killing restrictions etc), too easy to collect cash and buy stuff, too short levels etc. Just too freakin' easy and dumbed down :P

Other than that I totally agree with your post.

Oddly enough (or perhaps not so odd), House of Widow Moira was favorite level in Thief 3. :)

Vae
18th Jun 2010, 01:14
This is what I fear...

http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/5094/thiefcjc.jpg

xDarknessFallsx
18th Jun 2010, 02:14
^-- lol! :) "Grand Theft Taffer: The City"

Tryst
18th Jun 2010, 02:36
Need for Taffin: The return of Karras. :D

Platinumoxicity
18th Jun 2010, 07:39
^-- lol! :) "Grand Theft Taffer: The City"

I don't think you thought of the meaning of those words...

"Grand Theft" means "unlawful intentional taking of significantly large amounts of property from others." (Without the Auto post-title it refers to anything other than vehicles.)

"Taffer" is a word associated with Thief.

and "The City" with capital letters refers to the locale of Thief.

Ergo, "Grand Theft Taffer: The City" pretty much sums up Garrett's job. :D

Tryst
18th Jun 2010, 07:57
Need for Taffin, also sums up Garrett. The reference to Karras was regarding the mobile machinery.

trentwalker
18th Jun 2010, 18:59
I Fear that there will be no third person option.
People like to complain about the third person option in T3 but it's an option. If you don't like it, don't use it.

KSingh77
18th Jun 2010, 19:25
-Third person cover

-Health regen

-Third person takedown

These things already exist in Human Revolution.

xDarknessFallsx
21st Jun 2010, 05:50
I don't think you thought of the meaning of those words...

"Grand Theft" means "unlawful intentional taking of significantly large amounts of property from others." (Without the Auto post-title it refers to anything other than vehicles.)

"Taffer" is a word associated with Thief.

and "The City" with capital letters refers to the locale of Thief.

Ergo, "Grand Theft Taffer: The City" pretty much sums up Garrett's job. :D
Oh, but I did know what I was doing! :) I chose my words carefully. I was thinking of "Grand Theft Auto: Vice City" and how I could tweak that for the Thief franchise for fun...

Platinumoxicity
21st Jun 2010, 09:40
Oh, but I did know what I was doing! :) I chose my words carefully. I was thinking of "Grand Theft Auto: Vice City" and how I could tweak that for the Thief franchise for fun...

And I was smugly acting like I didn't see the similarities because "Grand Theft" without the "Auto" in the end has nothing to do with stealing cars, or GTA whatsoever. :p

CavaliereNero
21st Jun 2010, 18:22
My greatest fear...

That Stephen Russell will be replaced by Alan Rickman. :eek:

Bukary
21st Jun 2010, 18:40
What do I fear for Thief 4?

That it will, like DX:HR, constantly switch between TPP and FPP (see leaked E3 footage). I hope that Thi4f team will not make the same mistake.

Herr_Garrett
21st Jun 2010, 19:49
My greatest fear...

That Stephen Russell will be replaced by Alan Rickman. :eek:

Actually... that would be acceptable. I love Alan Rickman, and his voice is awesome.

CavaliereNero
21st Jun 2010, 21:45
Actually... that would be acceptable. I love Alan Rickman, and his voice is awesome.

That it is, but his voice lacks Garrett's rough quality. I shall accept him as a villain, maybe even a supporting character, but not as Garrett. :rasp:

s guy
22nd Jun 2010, 00:02
-Third person cover

-Health regen

-Third person takedown

These things already exist in Human Revolution.

In fact, I didn't know this. Is it true? Why would they do that to deus ex?

:confused: :(

ToMegaTherion
22nd Jun 2010, 08:31
Those things will probably work acceptably in a game like Deus Ex, although third person takedowns seem to be taking the cinematic theme rather too far. If they made the decision to make Deus Ex 3 more shootery than the original (not saying it's a good or a bad thing) then health regen is fairly consistent with this.

None of it would make any sense in Thief. Third person cover would be pretty pointless. Health regen would be inconsistent, dangerous and wrong. Third person takedowns would be gratuitous and somewhat inconsistent.

Tryst
22nd Jun 2010, 09:50
When they begin to show off too much in cutscenes, I begin to wonder why they made it into a game at all. They should have made an animated movie and be done with it. I don't want animated cutscenes of a conversation, I want to be the character listening in from a dark recess somewhere. I don't want an animated cutscene of a takedown, I want to be in control at all times.

In short, lets get back to basics of game playing. I think everyone wants immersion and not to be constantly reminded by cut scenes that they are playing a computer game.

Platinumoxicity
22nd Jun 2010, 15:40
When they begin to show off too much in cutscenes, I begin to wonder why they made it into a game at all. They should have made an animated movie and be done with it.

But you can't put expensive and unreliable copy-protection that destroys hardware and/or removes the chance of second-hand market into a movie, and you also can't release an unfinished product and then release the rest as downloadable content for a price so that the price of the complete thing will be about 100$. ;)

Also, since movies can't be modded to be more bearable, they also can't hype an awesome product, release a half-assed pathetic try-of-a-product, abandon the product so that it can't be fixed with updates, and disallow modding so that the fans can't fix it's flaws themselves.

Wait... that's Ubisoft. Whoops my bad. :D I hope Eidos Montréal won't follow any examples from Ubisoft ever.

astridelf
22nd Jun 2010, 17:42
i fear about ruining ideea of "Thief", the origins how was created, personally i think thief 2 was ok, thief 3 was ok but thief 1 was perfection, this series must have the same line, i mean the same mysticism, same religion subjects, medieval not new age, more factions eventualy, the music line shall be like old series, dont implement high-tech devices but improve old style devices with creative things, let there be for choosing: bow, crossbow, blackjack, sword, armor sets(eventualy), rope arrow , and not in the last time there must be "Garrett" not female, not novice etc. serious guys keep the tradition of thief and dont make him STAR WARS. (sorry for spelling but i know english just enough to survive:) )
*all the best*

Tryst
23rd Jun 2010, 00:46
But you can't put expensive and unreliable copy-protection that destroys hardware and/or removes the chance of second-hand market into a movie, and you also can't release an unfinished product and then release the rest as downloadable content for a price so that the price of the complete thing will be about 100$. ;)

Also, since movies can't be modded to be more bearable, they also can't hype an awesome product, release a half-assed pathetic try-of-a-product, abandon the product so that it can't be fixed with updates, and disallow modding so that the fans can't fix it's flaws themselves.

Wait... that's Ubisoft. Whoops my bad. :D I hope Eidos Montréal won't follow any examples from Ubisoft ever.
Great summary of Micro$haft too :)

BowNarrow
24th Jun 2010, 10:05
I fear
open world
3rd person
too much gore (brain is exploding and such crap)
too much zombies
baaaad missions (think of thief3-asylum... oh my god ._.)
action gameplay like assassins creed. (assassins don´t kill by jumping into a bunch of 20 guards)

BowNarrow
24th Jun 2010, 10:13
No i hate zombies just... they are zombies. I hate them, can´t really explain why. :)

Marik Bentusi
24th Jun 2010, 10:50
A game that has neither innovations nor sticks to its roots and keeps the leet-lingo in its name. I can already see Yahtzee ripping this game to pieces while moaning the loss of one of his favorite game series (like he did with Prince of Persia) and refusing to call the game "Thief" because it defiles the history of its ancestors, instead going for "Thiaf".
I think his review is going to be hilarious, because so far I have little faith in this project. Call that pessimistic or optimistic. :rolleyes:

Tryst
24th Jun 2010, 13:41
Considering how the THI4F title seems to be going down the youth market road.

Guards rapping instead of holding conversations or they start talking about the latest hip hop star at the local tavern.

Guard hears you and says "Yo where's at Bro? I knows you dere."

Saint_Edgar
24th Jun 2010, 14:59
more killing and fighting than using the good ol´ blackjack (thiefes try not to kill)
3rd person
a new main character

Fatherwoodsie
24th Jun 2010, 18:14
theres a very very fine line between knocking someone out and killing them. has anyone ever struck a billy club or baseball bat over the back of somebodies head? not so hard to kill them but hard enough to knock them out? i havent, but i can imagine that its very hard to do so.

Neb
24th Jun 2010, 21:21
theres a very very fine line between knocking someone out and killing them. has anyone ever struck a billy club or baseball bat over the back of somebodies head? not so hard to kill them but hard enough to knock them out? i havent, but i can imagine that its very hard to do so.

Yes, I've seen this discussed before. It's true, but a lifetime's worth of movies where a blow to the head only knocks someone unconscious is enough for most people to believe that the game is consistent. :)

Vae
24th Jun 2010, 21:41
Garrett uses a blackjack, not a club. This difference is that it is leather, filled with lead shot....so as to not split a head open when it strikes like a club.

CavaliereNero
24th Jun 2010, 22:56
Garrett uses a blackjack, not a club. This difference is that it is leather, filled with lead shot....so as to not split a head open when it strikes like a club.

Correction. He uses a block of pixels and polygons to smak a guard also made up of pixels and polygons, who then falls in an imitation of being rendered unconscious. In games, as in movies and literature, a certain amount of suspension of disbelief is required. Let's just leave it at that, shall we? :flowers:

Vae
25th Jun 2010, 00:09
Correction. He uses a block of pixels and polygons to smak a guard also made up of pixels and polygons, who then falls in an imitation of being rendered unconscious. In games, as in movies and literature, a certain amount of suspension of disbelief is required. Let's just leave it at that, shall we? :flowers:

Correction...there is no Garrett, he doesn't use anything because he doesn't exist. Therefore, let us not care or strive to create a believable virtual world.

Whether it's a club or blackjack, a dagger or a banana, it all works the same if you believe it does, right? Those who would have a hard time wielding a banana and expecting a certain effect, just have a problem immersing themselves. I mean really, it's all just pixels and polygons. Like when you flash bomb a guard in TDS, and then try to hit him over the head with the blackjack (or banana, does it really matter?), he instantly snaps back to normal and starts attacking you...and this is OK if you have a certain amount of suspension of disbelief.

I don't know about you, but when I play THIEF, I hold it to the same standards as when I play Mario Bros...after all, they're all just pixels and polygons.

Vae
25th Jun 2010, 00:23
Everything works together on every level in order to create a successful virtual reality, regardless of whether certain aspects are appreciated or not.

Vae
25th Jun 2010, 01:14
I'm usually hoping the tech will work, and curse it when it doesn't, and if it all works, I appreciate it, but soon forget about it as I become immersed.

I too, make the best of any situation...but remember immersion is not an absolute or a constant. The less things there are reminding you that you're playing a game, the longer and deeper your immersive states will be.

Shall we not strive for the best THIEF experience? I think THIEF deserves the highest standards of excellence, and this spirit can be seen by the original devs...that is why they gave Garrett a blackjack and not a club.


The lack of tech is why I won't get to play T4, even if I find I really want to.

I think you're underestimating your resourcefulness, and unnecessarily defeating yourself...:(

Fatherwoodsie
25th Jun 2010, 07:41
My fandom has nothing to do with realities of the physical components and assemblage of tech to create the illusion, but the art and story components the tech brings together into a virtual reality.

coming from the man who always preaches how hard it is for Devs to make the physics of a grappling hook stick or wrap around a pipe, work. :rolleyes: :rasp:

Fatherwoodsie
25th Jun 2010, 17:16
What? How do you make that connection? I can't even figure out how to respond to that without breaking down every thing. Weird. I'm talking machines, not programmers.

what machines exactly are you talking about then? ones in the game?

maybe i took your quote out of context but you always say how hard it would be for the devs to simulate a grappling hook to make it work but on the other hand you always talk about how thief is magical and we dont need to know how things work, like youve stated how its magic how a fire arrow goes from inanimate to animated... we just dont argue those things right. but when a grappling hook is mentioned, all the sudden its too hard for the programmers to make happen. maybe it has nothing to do with what your talking about now but it reminded me of it.

Hecateus
25th Jun 2010, 20:13
Biggest single fear:
No Editor Tools/SDK/related support etc.

s guy
26th Jun 2010, 00:57
As often, JTR7 has a good case and argues it well. In this case, he is especially right.

Ragnalin The Thief
26th Jun 2010, 08:37
Steamworks, Internet activations, Securom or any other intrusive DRM pieces of crap.

Platinumoxicity
26th Jun 2010, 10:19
Steamworks, Internet activations, Securom or any other intrusive DRM pieces of crap.

The game developers/publishers will never understand that they will never beat the hackers. If some sort of copy protection can be programmed into the game disc, someone can program it away from it, and put the game in illegal circulation just to rub it in the devs' faces that they can't stop anyone.

I think if there ever was released a game that had a sticker on the front of the dvd case that said: "ATTENTION, THIS GAME HAS NO COPY-PROTECTION WHATSOEVER, JUST LIKE IN THE EARLY 90'S, REMEMBER? WHEN WE USED TO TRUST THE CONSUMERS?" -that game would actually sell better because the ones downloading illegally would feel sympathy towards such an honest game that stands for something other than money. Because that's what it is when you run into copy-protection. Absolute greed.

BobTheMad
26th Jun 2010, 12:21
I fear that they will put it on Steam...

Hypevosa
26th Jun 2010, 18:12
don't think it being on steam would be bad unless that was the only place it existed...

I'd still like a disk I can throw about the room thanks.

Tryst
27th Jun 2010, 05:50
I think if there ever was released a game that had a sticker on the front of the dvd case that said: "ATTENTION, THIS GAME HAS NO COPY-PROTECTION WHATSOEVER, JUST LIKE IN THE EARLY 90'S, REMEMBER? WHEN WE USED TO TRUST THE CONSUMERS?" -that game would actually sell better because the ones downloading illegally would feel sympathy towards such an honest game that stands for something other than money. Because that's what it is when you run into copy-protection. Absolute greed.
Also, do you remember the time when all disks had the words:-
"You may create a copy for backup purposes only."
Anti-piracy software took away our basic right to backup our own software to preserve the original.

Jack Lantern
27th Jun 2010, 20:25
The tech is never in question unless the devs/pub wants it to be. I used to write for some of these media sites (mostly small time) that allow you glimpses into the world of making games, and based on that experience alone, it's all about graphics.

I love the eye candy as much as the rest, but unfortunately, developers have little option but to go for a higher poly count and resolution if that's what the publisher wants. I've intereviwed several developers over the years, and almost all them said basically the same thing: "These days, you may as well give up on a pitch unless that game is going to look as good as it can look". It's sad, because the visuals cut a big chunk out of the game's features budget.

zombie32
28th Jun 2010, 07:24
He has a mind for flying, not up and down equaling up and down.

Dear jtr7, I know that it has been almost a year now since your post, and this is a most tardy reply. For several reasons which are uninteresting to most and I will not pursue here, I have not really returned to much internet activity. Usually I defer to your opinions because I consider them top-notch and well thought out, not to mention that they agree with my experiences in Thief. However, I would take this time to challenge your ill-conceived and rather conceited response to my use of mouse invert. Perhaps you have become too full of yourself, but exactly what makes pushing the mouse forward the equivalent of looking up and, those who do not hold to this convention, wrong? In whose opinion? Just because you do it makes it the preferred way? Do you make no allowances for diversity? Some people are left-handed, and does that make them inferior? Why did Looking Glass allow for a choice of mouse-invert in the Thief games? Perhaps they knew something you did not, or is that even possible? You scoffed about flying, but did you even know that Looking Glass once produced a flight simulator? While I cannot remember the title, it was focused on the Bay Area of Northern California and all the local airports in the vicinity. Actually, it really sucked because on my plane the rudder would not turn both left and right as one would expect, but would only turn from center to right which caused a crash at every opportunity. Here's a lesson for you jtr7: when you think the world is ass backwards, maybe you are the one who is really ass backwards.

jtr7
28th Jun 2010, 07:32
Huh? I wasn't scoffing. Uh...sorry. I don't get it, but I was actually trying to defend you from a point of view of not relating. The rest is you being defensive.


I'm sorry you felt so strongly for I don't know how long, and only came back to post anger at me. I didn't know mouse-invert wasn't standard since the 90s.

Vae
28th Jun 2010, 07:35
Lovely...so Zombie, is this what you fear for Thief 4?...:nut:

The Atrophy
28th Jun 2010, 07:59
I fear a few different things...

- Branching dialogue trees
- A morality system
- A first person view like TDS
- A bad frame rate like TDS
- Sections of the game that cannot be passed without killing everyone
- No Stephen Russell
- Linear levels
- Guards that act like nothing is wrong after they saw you a minute ago
- Not being allowed to blackjack guards that are "aware" (like TDS)
- Guards instantly snapping out of blindness, etc when being attacked (like TDS)

BASICALLY every problem in TDS that killed the immersion for me.

jammy2232
28th Jun 2010, 17:48
I fear that they make a half finished game and expect us to fork out for DLC. It's bound to happen it's a new trend that unfortunately makes lots of money.

Tryst
29th Jun 2010, 07:56
I fear what I see starting at 0:40:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2woXO0Yr7s
The achievements or the third person that even the player found hard to control?

Asadar
29th Jun 2010, 12:45
fear that they make a half finished game and expect us to fork out for DLC.

Right. But beyond that I have nothing against DLC when it is just casual and made well, and of course when it does not influence the story as you said. However the extra side missions or the posting of an SDK are good things I think. Better: free extra side missions?


I fear a few different things...

- Branching dialogue trees
- A morality system

I agree. Garret is not miraculously become amnesiac or a customizable caracter. Garret is Garret, and even if we had the choice of response, it still would be in limits of his role. So it has no interest.


- Sections of the game that cannot be passed without killing everyone
- Linear levels
- Guards that act like nothing is wrong after they saw you a minute ago
- Not being allowed to blackjack guards that are "aware" (like TDS)
- Guards instantly snapping out of blindness, etc when being attacked (like TDS)

In five words : "Good IA and good Map". Of course we all hope. And I personally believe in the team of developpers.


Also, do you remember the time when all disks had the words:-
"You may create a copy for backup purposes only."


The good old days... the developpers would be right to do not install a "advanced" anti-piracy, it would be a sign of trusting the consumers. Anti-piracy is ridiculous and that has never stopped the piracy, it just encourages it instead.

Tryst
29th Jun 2010, 21:53
The good old days... the developpers would be right to do not install a "advanced" anti-piracy, it would be a sign of trusting the consumers. Anti-piracy is ridiculous and that has never stopped the piracy, it just encourages it instead.
It's true that people will support a good game. I did the same with Farcry, got my hands on a copy and liked it so I bought the game. I've done the same with a number of games since, bought the ones I liked and deleted the ones I didn't. Yes, even TDS. I learned the hard way with Daikatana not to buy a game without trying it out first. I'm actually glad I started doing it that way since there have been a lot of games that were hyped up and turned out to be garbage, (Avatar for example). I'm glad I didn't waste money on them, I just can't afford to throw money away.

If someone is going to play a pirated copy they will and no amount of anti-piracy will stop them. However, I often download No-CD patches so that I can copy my original and play from the copy so I keep my original disk as clean and scratch free as possible. I have original game disks from ten years ago that look like I bought them yesterday.

Hypevosa
30th Jun 2010, 06:14
I fear that human revolution will flop for one reason or another and it'll be scrapped with EM....

It'll probably be fine, but who knows.

Platinumoxicity
30th Jun 2010, 12:14
The good old days... the developpers would be right to do not install a "advanced" anti-piracy, it would be a sign of trusting the consumers. Anti-piracy is ridiculous and that has never stopped the piracy, it just encourages it instead.

I actually had to download Far Cry 2 illegally because the DRM copy-protection that is in the legitimate version was incompatible with my system. It's the prime example of a free, hacked version of a game being a superior product compared to the 50$ non-hacked, non-functional product. Where's the choice?

Speaking of incompatibility the game was btw also incompatible with my Creative -brand sound card. Go figure.

Asadar
30th Jun 2010, 12:37
Speaking of incompatibility the game was btw also incompatible with my Creative -brand sound card. Go figure.

Yep. Totally agree with you.

I had a problem similar to yours: I could not play Assassin's Creed 2 because of the permanent internet connection, because I have a wi-fi rotten disconnects all the time. So I waited to take the cracked version just two months later, and I could try it without having to pay 70 €. And I did well, because I did not especially like this game. So I removed it. A bit like a playable demo...

I think it's stupid to remove the playable demos of games and strengthen anti-piracy protections. That is exactly what makes piracy market: they have a sense of sharing and trust!

Maybe large productions should emulate the smallest. Almost miniature games like "World of Goo", "Machinarium", etc. are a great credit because they are unpretentious, without protection, and at prices more than reasonable. They might be the target of hackers, the hackers themselves often recommend to buy because they are worth.

Tryst
30th Jun 2010, 12:43
I actually had to download Far Cry 2 illegally because the DRM copy-protection that is in the legitimate version was incompatible with my system. It's the prime example of a free, hacked version of a game being a superior product compared to the 50$ non-hacked, non-functional product. Where's the choice?

Speaking of incompatibility the game was btw also incompatible with my Creative -brand sound card. Go figure.
Same for me with the graphics card. The Demo ran perfectly but the full game had to be patched to work with the same Nvidia graphics card or I just got a powder blue screen with a faint ghost image. Surprisingly, that was just after I moved away from using Creative sound cards and just used the internal motherboard Realtek brand which worked like a charm.

Asadar
30th Jun 2010, 13:04
Haaa, the surprises problems of compatibility with cards... :rolleyes:

"Where the hell is the logic?" :scratch:

Jack Lantern
30th Jun 2010, 21:03
I think the most frightening thing about Thief 4 is that most of what all of you fear are very big possibilities.

*DLC for example, is almost a given. No right-minded publisher is going to release a $60 game when they know people will pay $80-$100 for it. And it's very likely that the DLC we pay for is actually content that was already on the disc, or should've been. It's the sign of the times, and players everywhere are eating DLC up. We vote on the success of DLC with our wallets, and as far as I can tell, the writing is on the wall.

*A starring character that ISN'T Garrett? I can totally see it, for several reasons. For one, the character must be female. Many games are doing it, especially Japanese-influenced games. Resident Evil, Devil May Cry, Metal Gear, Castlevania, ALL turn-based RPGs, ALL fighting games, etc. are all games that include some sort of scantily-clad female to appeal to the mainstream gamer, which are mostly males. For an increased couple of bucks at retail, it could very well happen. A starring female character is good sign that the end of Thief as we all know it, is probably coming to an end.

*Speed stealth. A very big possibility. If the first three Thief games were released now, when gaming is so big, who knows how popular Thief-like play would be. Thief, as a series, simply never had the platform support it will have now. Thief has been a PC-only series until TDS, so the franchise never got the exposure the million-selling games like Splinter Cell had. If the devs are brave, Thief 4 could be great. But I do fear that if they bow to the masses, we're going to have a slightly different Splinter Cell, not Thief 4.

There are a million other possibilities, but I don't feel like typing anymore. Point is, many of our fears for Thief 4 are more than warranted, simply because they are realistic possibilities.

The Atrophy
30th Jun 2010, 21:44
I think the most frightening thing about Thief 4 is that most of what all of you fear are very big possibilities.

*DLC for example, is almost a given. No right-minded publisher is going to release a $60 game when they know people will pay $80-$100 for it. And it's very likely that the DLC we pay for is actually content that was already on the disc, or should've been. It's the sign of the times, and players everywhere are eating DLC up. We vote on the success of DLC with our wallets, and as far as I can tell, the writing is on the wall.

Yeah, it seems more and more games ship with "locked" content on the disk that can only be unlocked by paying for it. Which is total bull**** in my opinion, what happened to the days when devs continued support by releasing REAL expansions. Oblivion was a good example of that with the Shivering Isles (which gave the game another 20-30 hours). It's too bad people are so weak willed when it comes to on disk DLC, because devs are obviously going to keep taking advantage of that. Coupled with the rising prices of DLC and most people will probably end up (like you said) paying 100$ for a game they like. Look at Call of Duty: MW2. Two map packs have come out, each at 15$ for 5 maps. And still millions of people bought them.


*A starring character that ISN'T Garrett? I can totally see it, for several reasons. For one, the character must be female. Many games are doing it, especially Japanese-influenced games. Resident Evil, Devil May Cry, Metal Gear, Castlevania, ALL turn-based RPGs, ALL fighting games, etc. are all games that include some sort of scantily-clad female to appeal to the mainstream gamer, which are mostly males. For an increased couple of bucks at retail, it could very well happen. A starring female character is good sign that the end of Thief as we all know it, is probably coming to an end.



While I'm not sexist, your right in saying that. Although I also think it would be just as bad to have any male character who is not Garrett. On a sidenote, when did MGS and Devil May Cry have female leads? There was Raiden and Nero who both LOOKED like girls, but were guys... I haven't played the fourth MGS yet though.

Or do you mean having female characters that are NOT the protagonist?


*Speed stealth. A very big possibility. If the first three Thief games were released now, when gaming is so big, who knows how popular Thief-like play would be. Thief, as a series, simply never had the platform support it will have now. Thief has been a PC-only series until TDS, so the franchise never got the exposure the million-selling games like Splinter Cell had. If the devs are brave, Thief 4 could be great. But I do fear that if they bow to the masses, we're going to have a slightly different Splinter Cell, not Thief 4.

I agree with this as well. TDS already somewhat conformed to be an xbox game, lets hope it doesn't happen again, and worse!

Jack Lantern
30th Jun 2010, 22:06
Or do you mean having female characters that are NOT the protagonist?


Yeah, it's more about having the sexy female over-involved in a game simply for the sake of eye candy, not necessarily as lead player characters. But many of these series had female leads, or at least a scantily-clad female(s) unlockable characters. Sometimes they didn't even fit very well with the story, but were put there simply to look good.

Yeah I'm not sexist either, and it's not so much about a female lead as it is being about replacing Garrett. My point was simply that IF Garrett were to be replaced, it would likely be a female for the sake of some extra retail dollars. In addition, the developers would have the excuse to do it because of the whole sordid "female apprentice" thing.

And I agree with 100% of your post.

The Atrophy
30th Jun 2010, 23:16
Okay thanks for clarifying. Concerning your point, I have faith that the devs are smart enough not to do that. It would seriously comprimise the "seriousness" of the Thief world. I know the games have some humour, but that's because they wanted it to be there.

When I played Ninja Gaiden and saw Rachel fighting demons with her size H boobs bouncing eveywhere I found it funny and couldn't take the game seriously. So I can see how something like that would really hinder Thief.

xDarknessFallsx
1st Jul 2010, 02:24
For a loot object, finding a jewel-encrested bra might be okay, though. :P

chrsmat71
1st Jul 2010, 02:31
I’m surprised to some extent that a female main character is “feared”. Didn’t the thief2x fan made unofficial expansion have a female main character? Still seemed like thief to me...I actually hope it’s the girl form TDS...also hope Garret does some cut scene work appearances as mentor or something to that effect.

Jack Lantern
1st Jul 2010, 05:16
You skipped a lot to come to your conclusion.

Many of us are not against a female protagonist, but what the devs would likely do with one, in the name of the gaming industry.

What we fear is what an industry game developer making a sex symbol to stare at and animate sensually, because they always do that.

What we fear is losing a great voice for a character that doesn't transfix and appeal in voice alone, because her looks are so unimportant to play up.

And we are against Garrett becoming a has-been, placing his blackjack in a drawer, hanging it up, and becoming a daddy, or becoming a guardian and protector of another being, and training up competition, and splitting his gains on a daily basis.


Exactly. Couldn't have said it better. It's not about sex, a new character, Garrett hangin' it up or anything. It was simply a point being made that IF Garrett were ever replaced, odds are it would be with a sexy female simply because that's what the industry has shoved in gamers' faces.

Let's be real here. Tomb Raider was good for it's time. Even Tomb Raider 2 was a big seller. But Core Design (and yes, even Eidos) cared nothing for Tomb Raider, they cared about Lara Croft, and how they could exploit her. Remember all the pics and advertising slicks and promos of Lara barely dressed? Tomb Raider wasn't really a game; it was a product used soley for exploitation.

My whole point behind that for Thief 4 is that the developers could easily do it if they want, but it wouldn't be for the players' benefit.

chrsmat71
1st Jul 2010, 05:17
jftr7,
I agree about the overtly sexual protagonist, but I would be surprised if the developers went that path with thief (of course, I've been surprised before). If the thief 4 lead were like Zaya (that's her name, couldn't remember!), I don't think we would have much to worry about. Still very "thief" in that expansion right...even without Garrett. I'm just more concerned about substance (game play) changes the game might make instead of style (a vixen main character). The girl from TDS trained by Garrett (though why he would train her, I'm not sure?) and all grown up, could be good I think. I would prefer Garrett in part 4 honestly, just not a deal breaker for me without him in the limelight.

Jack Lantern
1st Jul 2010, 05:29
jftr7,
The girl from TDS trained by Garrett (though why he would train her, I'm not sure?) .

That's actually my main beef really. Given what we learned about Garrett over the course of three games, Garrett would have interest in training someone for... what reason, exactly? It doesn't fit his personality at all. And supposing he does retire at some point, there is still no incentive for him to pass on his skills to someone else.

In essence, what we learn about Garrett in TDS makes the Garrett I've come to know after T1 and 2 less interesting. To me, Garrett was interesting because he was the lone wolf.

Asadar
1st Jul 2010, 10:16
Originally Posted by chrsmat71 View Post
jftr7,
The girl from TDS trained by Garrett (though why he would train her, I'm not sure?) .

The daughter of TDS may be recalling a moment to Garrett's past, hence the ironic smile at the end of the game, but that does not mean he will make her his apprentice. As stated Jtr7, Garret is a lone wolf who values her independence, and fought for it.
It may just be that girl again in the Thief 4, but as a completely secondary character. For example: after the end of 3, Garrett will give her some money in memory of what he was, and because he is not completely heartless. But it stops there, it's just a nice gesture brackets that will help the girl to become a receiver of stolen goods, for example, or something in that taste again. A brief contact more in the city for the Master thief, but nothing else, nothing more.


Originally Posted by Jack Lantern

Let's be real here. Tomb Raider was good for it's time. Even Tomb Raider 2 was a big seller. But Core Design (and yes, even Eidos) cared nothing for Tomb Raider, they cared about Lara Croft, and how they could exploit her. Remember all the pics and advertising slicks and promos of Lara barely dressed? Tomb Raider wasn't really a game; it was a product used soley for exploitation.

My whole point behind that for Thief 4 is that the developers could easily do it if they want, but it wouldn't be for the players' benefit.

Yep. Completely agree with you. I can not even imagine replaced Garret by a virtual sex symbol, evenly it is perfectly possible.

And for T2X, it was a mod, the best one, but a mod no more. It was actually an annex to the main story. And that's just fine. But Thief 4 is the main story, and this story is the Garret one. I think it can only be the main character.
Change him would be a stupid marketing gesture whose fans would be hard to recover. And they should know that this community of fans who represents their biggest target, because unfortunately, outside of England, in Europe the game is still very little known.

Namdrol
1st Jul 2010, 11:28
...because unfortunately, outside of England, in Europe the game is still very little known.
Not true I'm afraid Asadar.
There are very active Cyrillic and German Thief forums, lots of Italians (Check out the fm's from Eternata and Lady Rowena) loads of Finns etc, etc.

Tryst
1st Jul 2010, 11:56
because unfortunately, outside of England, in Europe the game is still very little known.
http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=99997
That's just the ones from this forum and there are many more forums across the globe with other languages.

Asadar
1st Jul 2010, 13:20
Really ? Nice to know this !

I should never speak until to be sure. My bad.


It's little known globally

That's what I meant, but I misspoke. I still have a little trouble turning my sentences in English sometimes.

But I am sad that in France, this wonderful game is still very little known. Not completly unknown of course, but this is not really the kind of game that the French players are crazy.

PS: I love this map with all the forum members. Can I be on too ? :D

Tryst
1st Jul 2010, 13:58
PS: I love this map with all the forum members. Can I be on too ? :D
Post in the thread with your location (and offer jtr a bottle of french wine :D) and I guess he'll be happy to add you.

Asadar
1st Jul 2010, 14:39
For me it was not great either. When I bought TDS, it was new but at very low price, because they still could not sell the orginal stock. And when I took it with a friend, he looked at the game and I ask me: what is that game? What is Thief like game? And when I talked about it arround me, nobody knew. Neither TDS, neither the firsts Thief. In fact, I think my uncle is the only French I know who have already played them...

PS: Thank Tryst, I still have a very good "Côte de bourg Lamblin; 1995" whose come from a far oncle of me. :D

dsung
1st Jul 2010, 15:01
Square Enix won't allow any gameplay-videos for Thief 4 as they did for Deus Ex 3 on E3 (every third party demo-ingame-video were removed). How can I get an impression of T4 without buying it?

Asadar
2nd Jul 2010, 09:43
And we don't even now about a date for the Game. Just this " Thi4F - comig soon". What mean soon? 2010? I hope not.
I wish that means 2011, because I prefer a game that took some time, with little about it, but ultimately shows itself in the last days as a full game and finished, rather than a advertising game that is ultimately a little disappointing.
Same thing for a demo: it is more interesting with a demo of the final game rather than a rough sketch.

Asadar
2nd Jul 2010, 09:59
May 2011 seems to be a good date for me. No to soon, no to late.

It leaves me time to finish my studies in 3D and give me a little break to dream about this game! ^ ^

Especially knowing that Thief 1 gave me my passion for 3D when I was younger... This will be like become a child again.