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Flashart
28th May 2009, 11:46
In an attempt to tie up various equipment/ upgrade/ rpg/ stat type threads and choices I thought to have a limit on the amount of arrows you can carry.
I thought 20 was a suitable figure in terms of size and restriction, and also if there's a shop or load out screen it'd be a nice "balancing act" for price vs space etc. Also there's a certain "reality" about it that is quite satisfying.
Extra arrows would still be available in the level but if you'd got the maximum you'd have to fire one off to add the new one.

So your arrow choice could be...

Broadhead
Water
Holy Water
Moss
Rope (Retrievable)
Vine (Non-Retrievable)
Fire
Gas
Noisemaker
Smoke

How would you fill yours? (And any other arrows you'd like)

Lady_Of_The_Vine
28th May 2009, 12:01
Out of 20, I would choose the following:

11 water arrows (always the most useful to me for extinguishing flames and sneaking around where guards patrol)
3 rope or vine arrows (a must-have for exploration to either find more loot or an alternative route to mission objective)
2 moss arrows (always needed for shiny marble floors!)
1 broadhead arrow (I found I never needed them much)
1 gas arrow (very handy in certain difficult situations)
1 noisemaker arrow (useful, at times)
1 fire arrow (always good to keep one in reserve, just in case...)


I didn't include holy water arrows as I preferred the separate potion bottles and using them with my existing water arrows.

esme
28th May 2009, 12:12
well going off your selection and not having a clue where I'm going I'd probably go for the following


2 - rope
2 - vine
4 - holy water .. just in case there's undead
2 - moss
2 - broadhead .. can be used for making noise
8 - water


but it would depend on where I was going, I'd stock up with holy water if I was heading for a crypt or moss if I was heading for a church, a mechanist area I wouldn't expect much wood but probably more gratings/vents so I'd have more vine arrows, fire arrows for treebeasts ...

I really need to know something about the mission but I'd say thats a reasonable selection

for most town/city missions I'd be ok with a couple of rope arrows, a couple of broadheads and the rest being water arrows

and why specific holy water arrows ? TDP & TMA used holy water vials to 'bless' any water arrows you had making them all holy water arrows for a short time

Caranfin
28th May 2009, 12:17
I usually try to ghost, or at least semi-ghost, through the levels using as little equipment as possible, so usually I don't use anything apart from some rope- and water arrows. The equipment would of course vary depending on where I was going, but I guess this is what I'd usually take with me:

10 water arrows
4 broadheads
4 rope/vine arrows
2 moss arrows

I, too, prefer holy water bottles to holy water arrows separate from the regular water arrows.

Jilly The Taffer
28th May 2009, 12:48
10 water arrows. (Can't have too many for the torch-infested levels) :D
3 broadhead arrows. (One shot kills, for those in the wrong place at the wrong time) ;)
2 gas arrows. (Love those things, take down many at one time) :cool:
1 noisemaker. (For a much wanted distraction) :rasp:
1 rope arrows. (We only need one if they are retrievable, like in DP) :thumb:
3 fire arrows. (For various forms of fun, and undead killings) :lol:

huzi73
28th May 2009, 12:57
Err..20?Lets cut a deal,make it...35 and then we'll talk :lol:

Yotun
28th May 2009, 13:26
What a brilliant idea! I really like this - so long as they do not think to limit the levels because of the number of arrows. Keep levels to T2 standards design wise, but limit the arrows. Perhaps 20 is too low, I'd say... 25. Also, take care when placing arrows in the game, we don't want it to appear unrealistic (I'd imagine these things would not be available anywhere but in black market thieving stores, don't want to see water crystals just lying around in rich people's mansions).

I think this is the kind of thing that doesn't break the spirit and basic gameplay of the first games, but adds a new dynamic and gameplay element to it.

Platinumoxicity
28th May 2009, 14:00
Joke commencing:

18 broadheads
2 fire

I don't need moss arrows because I can press "Ctrl" (creep button) to move absolutely silently, I can press "r" (drop item key) to hug walls and press "v" to abuse the 3rd person mode to see around corners while staying hidden so I don't need water to put out torches. I throw gas bombs everywhere to knock out half of the enemies. I make a pile of mines and make an oil slick leading towards it. When the rest of the enemies come, I draw a fire arrow to get their attention, shoot broadheads all over the place, blinding them with arrow trails, then they all slip to the oil, sliding to the mines and i shoot a fire arrow to blow them up. The ragdolls clip through the carpet and walls and flop around endlessly.
Joke succesfully completed.

No.

12 water arrows (basic arsenal of Captain Obvious)
5 moss arrows (silence is very important and there is no "instant silence" -key)
2 rope arrows (2 for higher climbing or for spare)
1 noisemaker arrow (The knocking model from T2, less obvious thief's tool)

Flashart
28th May 2009, 14:17
I included Holy Water arrows just to add to the list so as it gave a wider (more difficult?) choice.
I picked the value 20 as it's low enough to get through a level but force you to pickpocket/ find others should you want to. I made the Vine arrow non-retrievable as I felt this would be an expensive/ rare purchase, so again, if you want to use lots of them you've got to taff a bit more.
This is one area where you can have choice and a degree of freedom without compromising any element in the game, it's a tiny bit of RPG that doesn't affect anything (in a negative way).

Jilly The Taffer
28th May 2009, 14:17
Joke commencing:

18 broadheads
2 fire

I don't need moss arrows because I can press "Ctrl" (creep button) to move absolutely silently, I can press "r" (drop item key) to hug walls and press "v" to abuse the 3rd person mode to see around corners while staying hidden so I don't need water to put out torches. I throw gas bombs everywhere to knock out half of the enemies. I make a pile of mines and make an oil slick leading towards it. When the rest of the enemies come, I draw a fire arrow to get their attention, shoot broadheads all over the place, blinding them with arrow trails, then they all slip to the oil, sliding to the mines and i shoot a fire arrow to blow them up. The ragdolls clip through the carpet and walls and flop around endlessly.
Joke succesfully completed.

Haha! Hear hear! :lol:

Lady_Of_The_Vine
28th May 2009, 15:35
1 rope arrows. (We only need one if they are retrievable, like in DP) :thumb:

Sometimes, you do need more than one... especially if searching lofty areas that are difficult to get to via other means. I've used 3 rope arrows before to jump from one to another etc to find a secret. ;)

Hypevosa
28th May 2009, 16:26
I'd rather not have to fire them off, especially if I'm ditching fire arrows >_< But of 20 I'd probably take...

6 water
3 moss
1 Indestructible arrow (acts as a broadhead, and doesn't break :D (ala thief 2's Ambush). Broadhead arrows are a cheaper distraction than noisemaker, never saw their point)
2 fire
6 gas
2 rope (forgot about em for a second)

I like to play mister sandman, so everybody sleeping makes me happy :D The reason they were so rare and expensive is because if you aimed right you could knockout everyone in a 5 foot radius of one arrow... I'd always try and make mine double outs at least :D

esme
28th May 2009, 16:32
...I like to play mister sandman, so everybody sleeping makes me happy :D The reason they were so rare and expensive is because if you aimed right you could knockout everyone in a 5 foot radius of one arrow... I'd always try and make mine double outs at least :D

oooooh yeah, noise arrow + gas arrow = 90% of the local AI going beddybyes :cool:

and I get my noise arrow back too which is something else wrong in TDS use a noisemaker and it's gone forever :hmm:

Platinumoxicity
28th May 2009, 17:25
1 Indestructible arrow (acts as a broadhead, and doesn't break :D (ala thief 2's Ambush).

Whe... Whe... Where?! I just found a secret safe in The Sword the other day when I thought that I'd found every secret in the series. Now you're telling me that there's an indestructible arrow somewhere. B... b.... BOW UPGRADE?! :eek:

esme
28th May 2009, 17:42
Whe... Whe... Where?! I just found a secret safe in The Sword the other day when I thought that I'd found every secret in the series. Now you're telling me that there's an indestructible arrow somewhere. B... b.... BOW UPGRADE?! :eek:

it's in the Alarus extension ;)

Hypevosa
28th May 2009, 17:52
It's somewhere in ambush, and I'll tell you it's in a footlocker. It looks like a normal arrow, but it is isolated from your broadheads and doesn't break when fired into things.

Platinumoxicity
28th May 2009, 17:53
It's somewhere in ambush, and I'll tell you it's in a footlocker. It looks like a normal arrow, but it is isolated from your broadheads and doesn't break when fired into things.

I think I know where it is, but how exactly is it isolated from the other arrows? :confused:

Hypevosa
28th May 2009, 17:54
if you cycle through all your weapons it's isolated as a single arrow with no name

Flashart
29th May 2009, 10:59
Would you want equipment to "carry over" to the next level, or start with a basic kit and buy the extras each "loadout"?
I think with a 20 arrow cap you could do both, so near the end of the game you could, if you wished go out with 20 gas arrows etc..
You'd have a "stash" of amassed gear and then the rarer/ expensive items available for coin. The more I consider this I think it'd be great. It "encourages" gameplay to justify game style.

ToMegaTherion
29th May 2009, 11:15
Joke commencing:

18 broadheads
2 fire

I don't need moss arrows because I can press "Ctrl" (creep button) to move absolutely silently, I can press "r" (drop item key) to hug walls and press "v" to abuse the 3rd person mode to see around corners while staying hidden so I don't need water to put out torches. I throw gas bombs everywhere to knock out half of the enemies. I make a pile of mines and make an oil slick leading towards it. When the rest of the enemies come, I draw a fire arrow to get their attention, shoot broadheads all over the place, blinding them with arrow trails, then they all slip to the oil, sliding to the mines and i shoot a fire arrow to blow them up. The ragdolls clip through the carpet and walls and flop around endlessly.
Joke succesfully completed.


Ah, but you don't need any of that, because you can eliminate every enemy with your sword, so you probably want all 20 rope arrows because they can do things your sword can't :)

Myth
29th May 2009, 16:36
I don't use arrows (apart from the logistics arrows -rope and vine) most of the time. If i'm playing trough a mission for the first time I might be lenient and use some water or very rarely, moss arrows. i only ever use gas arrows or flash bombs (or gas bombs in tds) if i have played for an hour or more without saving and suddenly i do something stupid to expose myself (or the lightsources in the mission were not ranged correctly and i ended up in a shadowy area that the dark engine thinks is light up brightly) and i do not want to replay the last hour.

For missuon re-runs i use only the lockpicks and rope arrows.

Mr. Perfect
29th May 2009, 17:52
It's somewhere in ambush, and I'll tell you it's in a footlocker. It looks like a normal arrow, but it is isolated from your broadheads and doesn't break when fired into things.

If I remember correctly, it's actually a blackjack arrow. :D

Hypevosa
29th May 2009, 19:23
If I remember correctly, it's actually a blackjack arrow. :D

Really? that's even more awesome... I never shot it at anyone because I only play on expert so killing is bad. And I never got frustrated enough to kill people during that level.

MasterTaffer
29th May 2009, 19:27
12 water arrows (basic arsenal of Captain Obvious)
5 moss arrows (silence is very important and there is no "instant silence" -key)
2 rope arrows (2 for higher climbing or for spare)
1 noisemaker arrow (The knocking model from T2, less obvious thief's tool)

Yes, pretty much my load out as well.

kabatta
4th Jun 2009, 08:13
10 water arrows (for passing arend that annoying guard that just won't move)
2 moss arrows (just to help me if i feel like blackjacking everybody and i have to sneak on tile)
4 rope/ vine arrows (oh, the fun i can have with theese)
1 gas arrow (for those people who are too close to each other to be blckjacked individually)
3 broadhead arrows (much more better than the noisemaker arrow)

Nate
4th Jun 2009, 08:44
20 Arrows MAX is an excellent idea!

I would carry:

3 rope arrows
8 water arrows
1 fire arrow
3 gas arrows
1 moss arrow
4 holy water (but will probably just be a combination of holy water flask and regular water arrow)

I really hope Thi4f isn't like Deadly Shadows, where you can carry 50 arrows.

Hypevosa
4th Jun 2009, 09:00
See, my problem with just 20 arrows, is the fact that in TDS the levels were smaller, meaning limited arrows wasn't such a horrible thing. If we want the levels to be as large as the old ones, we may NEED more arrows. Assuming that Garrett wears 2 quivers (it is possible, and not a bad idea if the levels are large like most people are requesting) then 40 arrows is probably a good number. I find myself using normally around 10-20 per level maximum in the old games, but I'm an EXTREMELY conservative tool user (but I still use them). I don't want to end up constantly saving that moss arrow for the even longer metal hallway that might be around the corner when I need it now.

Blade_hunter
4th Jun 2009, 09:07
Broadhead arrows are useful to make some diversion ....
Also thief the old thief allowed pretty much an unlimited carrying ...

Hypevosa
4th Jun 2009, 09:14
Actually, a system I'd like better would be that you have X number of broadheads and to make them elemental you just pierce the elemental head onto the arrow. That would also explain why in all the games if you picked up an element head it became an arrow, and it would make broadhead arrows a little more useful on the difficulties where you can't kill people.

Flashart
4th Jun 2009, 10:36
My original thought was that 20 would "force" you to pickpocket. If every guard had an arrow (or some maybe more) they'd be enough broadheads, then make the more specialized arrows available via chests and secrets etc.
You're a thief you travel light and have to improvise as you go, I agree 20 seems severe but
any more seems to lessen the challenge of the level. You could litter the level with broadheads and water arrows if you wanted, but if you can only carry 20 at a time you've got to plan ahead.
The bigger the level the better, it makes you search and scavenge.

kabatta
4th Jun 2009, 13:27
To me 20 arrows seem more than enough. You can allways find additional arrows if you need. (yes, even in the sink near the john)

Hypevosa
4th Jun 2009, 19:12
I still don't think they should force more challenge on the gamer than there already is, especially in regards to something like this where they'd actually be attacking a comfort (being able to hold as many things, or at least lots of things)

Also, if this system were implemented I'd want to be able to sell my arrows to stores at least, or be able to drop arrows instead of being forced to use them.

Like I said though, instead of having a 20 arrow quiver with diverse arrows, you could just allow them to collect and buy the arrow HEADS (max of 20 of each), and then simply attach them to broadheads. It would give broadheads more usefulness on dificulties where you can't kill (aside from their being a cheap noisemaker) and it would still be the same idea as your arrow limit. Also, pickpocketing archers' broadheads would be more important.

Flashart
5th Jun 2009, 07:47
If it was done the way I'd imagine it would not be so much an issue of scrabbling about trying to find an arrow. It would be about not being a human "arrow machine gun", being stealthier, inventory management. After all you could further remove further "challenges" by having unlimited mines but how much of a game would remain? Yes, you could drop arrows, or fire them off, that's what I meant all along.
I'm willing to accept 20 is a harsh figure, but in my imaginings you wouldn't be short of arrows, just limited in what you could carry (ie like real life). I'd like to carry any "cool" ones out of the level, which maybe I could fence or keep in reserve for future missions, again it's management but on such a small level, that you'd never actually leave yourself unarmed permanently, as new arrows would be on the next guard or in the next chest etc.

MasterTaffer
5th Jun 2009, 07:48
Can I just pull the crystals off the arrow shaft and throw them?

Nate
5th Jun 2009, 08:08
I would just hope they put in an arrow carry capacity limit and the ability to choose exactly what arrows you want to carry to fill that limit.

Hypevosa
5th Jun 2009, 09:30
Can I just pull the crystals off the arrow shaft and throw them?

nah they might not land properly and break, the shaft and fletchings guide the tip to it's target, and unless you wanna turn your crystals into darts by fletchin em then they'd be hit or miss (and very awkward to throw even if you did have fletching).

agrash
5th Jun 2009, 19:20
20 fire arrows: Let's blow em all up! ^^

No seriously:
4x Broadhead
7x Water
2x Moss
2x Rope/Vine
2x Fire
1x Gas
2x Noisemaker

I like a variety of arrows and i often don't use the noisemaker/moss, but it's handy to keep around just in case.
The gas arrow is "overpowered" since you can mostly take out 2 guards when they're talking so i only took 1 with me and the Fire arrow is something i keep for the extra firepower

Belboz
5th Jun 2009, 20:53
I got a quiver upgrade to go with the bow upgrade the upgraded quiver is magic and can hold as many arrows as I want.

Neb
5th Jun 2009, 20:59
I have no preference on the limit, since any limit will either work or not depending on how equipment is collected and also how the rest of the game is balanced (such as level design and difficulty).

This isn't something I can answer. It's up to the devs to decide.

[PT] Garret [PT]
13th Jul 2009, 09:58
7x Water arrows
2x Broadhead arrows
2x Rope arrows
2x Moss arrow
4x Fire arrows
1x Noisemaker arrow
2x Gas arrow

seifullaah73
13th Jul 2009, 12:28
3x Broadhead
3x Water
8x Rope/Vine
2x Fire
1x Gas
8x Noisemaker

gryphos
13th Jul 2009, 19:44
I like the 20 arrow quiver idea. The upside is that it forces you to have to plan more carefully, and keeps the tension higher. The downside is that it may make the sustained tension too high to be fun. I don't like the idea of more magic items (unlimited quivers et.al.) as I like the grittier feel for Thief, which you lose the more magic items you include (this isn't Baldur's Gate or Diablo). However, in the spirit of the heist genre, you can get both a quiver limit, and a bump by including in the loadout, a bribe to hide spare equipment in different parts of levels. If in the loadout, you consulted your map, and there was the option to bribe the chamber maid to hide a package in the second story privy closet, then half way through the level, you get a bump if you need it. In between times, you should be able to get one or two extra arrows from every archer guard you meet. And if noise makers are reusable like in T1&2 (as I think they should be) then you need never worry about resupply of those, nor of rope arrows.

jtr7
13th Jul 2009, 20:57
...................

gryphos
14th Jul 2009, 04:02
Or the reaver loadout:

20 fire arrows

all the mines he can carry

If you blow the hell out of every living thing, there's nobody to keep you from the cookie jar! >:)

jtr7
14th Jul 2009, 04:07
.......................

DarthEnder
14th Jul 2009, 15:53
18 Water
2 Vine

My loadout money before a mission was almost always entirely spent on water arrows and flash bombs.

lefty
14th Jul 2009, 19:47
but what happens if I happen to be carrying twenty arrows and want to pick one up? Will it just not let me? Get an onscreen message saying my quiver is full? Would it bring up an arrow-managing menu to decide what to keep and what to trade out D:

what if I need a fire arrow for whatever reason, and there's one on the ground... I'm gonna have to lose an arrow somehow! whether I shoot one into the floor to make room, or whatever else... plus I'm gonna have to more than likely leave the level with arrows laying around I know are there but couldn't collect! That will bug me to no end.

anyway, for all those people who talk about how garrett can carry unlimited loot and all that and talk down to the people who want him to walk slower when he's got more gold or whatever... why have a limit on arrows?

gryphos
14th Jul 2009, 20:00
Quiver and equip limits are a good way to keep up dramatic tension, which you want in a game. Ideally, you want the tension to be just one notch more than makes the player comfortable at any time, with occasional spikes of high anxiety followed by calm release.

What makes for a more memorable experience: the time you beat all the guards with ease and had a full quiver left over, or the time you had to ghost your way past 20 hostile torch wielding guards with one rope arrow, your lock picks, and a piece of chewing gum... and you made it out with the loot?

jtr7
14th Jul 2009, 20:17
......................

Direlord
14th Jul 2009, 22:06
8 Water
4 Moss
2 Gas
2 Rope/Vine
2 Fire
1 Broadhead
1 Noise

Arkanis
14th Jul 2009, 23:46
Joke commencing:

18 broadheads
2 fire

I don't need moss arrows because I can press "Ctrl" (creep button) to move absolutely silently, I can press "r" (drop item key) to hug walls and press "v" to abuse the 3rd person mode to see around corners while staying hidden so I don't need water to put out torches. I throw gas bombs everywhere to knock out half of the enemies. I make a pile of mines and make an oil slick leading towards it. When the rest of the enemies come, I draw a fire arrow to get their attention, shoot broadheads all over the place, blinding them with arrow trails, then they all slip to the oil, sliding to the mines and i shoot a fire arrow to blow them up. The ragdolls clip through the carpet and walls and flop around endlessly.
Joke succesfully completed.

No.

12 water arrows (basic arsenal of Captain Obvious)
5 moss arrows (silence is very important and there is no "instant silence" -key)
2 rope arrows (2 for higher climbing or for spare)
1 noisemaker arrow (The knocking model from T2, less obvious thief's tool)

Oh god you reminded me - they need to get rid of the ****ing "Creep" key. If I remember right, you moved at the same speed as if you slowed down anyway, but NOTHING caused noise. That was terrible, I refused to use that.

jtr7
14th Jul 2009, 23:58
......................

gryphos
15th Jul 2009, 22:33
>>I'll say right now, I don't want any limits on weapons because I don't want equipment carry-over, so each mission will be equipped traditionally

I don't know why limited quiver/equip has to include carry-over. I'd do it basically like TDP/TMA equip loadouts, but with a quiver limit, and the ability to buy equip caches in-mission as discussed in the loadout thread, for those who don't ghost their way without using any toys.

jtr7
15th Jul 2009, 23:17
...................

Flashart
16th Jul 2009, 11:57
If there is carry over and item caps then the level can have whatever it wants in it but the player will have the task of balancing his gear from mission to mission.
If the levels are pretty sparse then your relying on "guesswork" on how to load up and then it might end up with a playing style being "imposed" on a player, due to equipment shortage.
There's pros and cons for each, inventory management vs gameplay style.
Personally, I'd have every guard carry 1 broadhead, so you'd always have a basic supply, other items rationed according to their value.
Having no item cap and no carry over then requires the loot vs item cost conundrum.
I'm assuming each mission would start you with a "nominal" amount of gear.

Maleficen
10th Aug 2010, 18:59
20 arrows ? hoping for more to be carried :P (depending weight, differs per arrow)

Broadhead 0.1 (retrievable 70%)
Water 0.15
Moss 0.1
Rope (Retrievable 90%) 0.2
Vine 0.2
Fire 0.15
Gas 0.1
Noisemaker 0.1
Plain wood 0.05 (retrievable 40%)
Silverlined 0.2 (retrievable 60%) (agains werewolfs)
Toxin coated wood 0.1 (turns plain wood, retrievable 40%)

standard 3 unit space which can be upgraded to 5 orso

@ 3 unit space:

5 broadheads
6 water
4 fire
5 plain wood
2 silverlined
2 toxin coated

Org 20 arrow setting

10 broad
6 water
4 fire


i never heard of smoke and holy water arrows :P

Herr_Garrett
10th Aug 2010, 19:02
20 arrows ? hoping for more to be carried :P (depending weight, differs per arrow)

Broadhead 0.1 (retrievable 70%)
Water 0.15
Moss 0.1
Rope (Retrievable 90%) 0.2
Vine 0.2
Fire 0.15
Gas 0.1
Noisemaker 0.1
Plain wood 0.05 (retrievable 40%)
Silverlined 0.2 (retrievable 60%) (agains werewolfs)
Toxin coated wood 0.1 (turns plain wood, retrievable 40%)

standard 3 unit space which can be upgraded to 5 orso

@ 3 unit space:

5 broadheads
6 water
4 fire
5 plain wood
2 silverlined
2 toxin coated

Org 20 arrow setting

10 broad
6 water
4 fire


i never heard of smoke and holy water arrows :P

Just what the hell are you babbling about?

Maleficen
10th Aug 2010, 19:18
Just what the hell are you babbling about?

lol , encumbrance? (and some new items) :confused:

btw, made a calc error, should be 10 plain wood :nut:

Rieknor
10th Aug 2010, 21:27
I think 20 arrows is not enough, I mean, 20 are few...
Anyway... If I'll have to choose 20

14 Water Arrows
4 Moss Arrows
2 Rope Arrows (just in case).

As you can see my tools are strictly stealth and for reach places where you can't acces without the Rope Arrows.

Noisemakers Arrows are not as useful as Water Arrows becouse you can grab any object to create a distraction. If I can't use other objets I just use a flashbomb to pass through a guard(if there is no way to pass through without been seen).

Edit. And something else. I realy dont like the idea of Holy Water Arrows or Smoke Arrows.
Edit2. Since we're talking about arrows, let me mention that I HATE that thing added in TDS when you trow an arrow. (Like a blue light tail) PLEASE, dont do it again.

jtr7
10th Aug 2010, 23:05
Holy Water arrows are just water arrows with holy water poured over them or after the water arrows are dipped into a holy font, which blesses them until the holy water drips and evaporates off. It's more useful then a holy water flask. They only exist in TDP/Gold for the undead hordes, which TMA and TDS didn't have. TDS increased the power of the flashbomb, so it takes only one, instead of two, to vanquish an undead creature.

zhunt
16th Aug 2010, 03:35
im suprised at the number of arrows people use. i make it a point to use as little or no arrows each mission. personally i blackjack the crapm out of anything moving but i rarely use any of the arrows or the other items like mines and flah bombs.

jtr7
16th Aug 2010, 03:55
But this thread is about a hypothetical pre-mission scenario, rather than what people actually experience in-game. Skilled taffers will never need a piece of equipment but for completing objectives or in order to collect max loot, and everything else is on a whim.

xDarknessFallsx
16th Aug 2010, 04:13
In an attempt to tie up various equipment/ upgrade/ rpg/ stat type threads and choices I thought to have a limit on the amount of arrows you can carry.
I thought 20 was a suitable figure in terms of size and restriction, and also if there's a shop or load out screen it'd be a nice "balancing act" for price vs space etc. Also there's a certain "reality" about it that is quite satisfying.
Extra arrows would still be available in the level but if you'd got the maximum you'd have to fire one off to add the new one.

I'm sorry, but in an attempt to reconvey my opposition to encumbrance, item limits, additional RPG elements and level-ups, I won't be answering the question. Answering would only give a false indication I might be a proponent of the idea.

Platinumoxicity
16th Aug 2010, 08:18
Extra arrows would still be available in the level but if you'd got the maximum you'd have to fire one off to add the new one.

What if I accidentally pick up a fire crystal and I need the space for other crystals? Do I need to fire off a Fire Arrow and alert the entire neighborhood simply to clear out some space in my bag?

jtr7
16th Aug 2010, 09:25
I hope it wouldn't be another auto-drop occasion, again, either.

Hypevosa
16th Aug 2010, 16:25
There's 2 systems I wouldn't mind if they were implemented.

1. Make it so that they player has a max of all arrow types that they can have purchased up to at the beginning of a level - and then allow them to pick up whatever they find during the mission as "extra" (assume their it the infiniloot bag)

2. Make a 20 limit cap on broadheads - and then have all the crystals be stored separately and as such. Firing a "fire arrow" consumes a broadhead and the crystal you attached to it. This way the player can have more dynamic choices as to what arrows they use.

In D&D terms, think of it as playing a sorcerer instead of a wizard.

Munin
16th Aug 2010, 17:17
I don't really like the idea of weapon/ammo limits in Thief. It kind of flies in the face of being able to stash unlimited goblets and plates etc... down your pants. It also limits different ways of playing and actually penalises reserved players who like to collect and save stocks. However, this is good fun so I'll participate.

Usual Playing Style: 20 Rope Arrows.

Casual Playing Style: 8 Water, 3 Rope, 1 Gas, 3 Moss, 5 Broadhead

Maleficen
16th Aug 2010, 19:17
Hmm, yes, mines

i hope mines and flashbombs don't return, don't like em

maybe we could introduce "black eggs" to temp blind powerfull opponents ?

you know, the ninja style stuff :D

jtr7
16th Aug 2010, 20:32
I still can't tell if that's sarcasm or not.

vesemir
17th Aug 2010, 13:52
Personally I avoid using any thief tools, especially arrows. Anyhow, 20 arrows is quite much as for me.
So, my "Top 20" :)

12 water (most useful)
3 gas (handy sometimes)
2 rope
2 moss
1 noise

Actually 12 water arrows is very much, because such amount could tempt me to use them here and there to create shadows instead of use those that already present (shadows I mean).

SKizzBeeF
28th Aug 2010, 08:14
I don't really go for the 20 arrow idea.. I always preferred how the game(s) themselves would limit you basically on how well you did in the previous mission. If you didn't nab enough stuff, you didn't get as much stuff. Often there wasn't -that- much offered to start anyway. (mind you, I'm talking TDP/TMA) You could choose to play a level with only what they gave you, or you could manage whatever cash you had left over to buy as much as possible. Whatever you didn't spend Garrett seemed to spend on food and hookers. (That's my guess anyway)

Aside from store and loot limits, there were always some small amount of arrows tucked away through out a mission. Anyone remember checking nobles indoor pools for blue crystals under water? Reaching your hands into a fire like a fool for that fire arrow- you.. probably would only fire into the moon anyway? There weren't many, but if you wanted you could likely finish a mission just on what you'd find. Rope arrows found in a crate somewhere that you just so happened to need somewhere else. Kinda like finding a key to a door you can't pick. The game ensured you -could- win. (maybe that's why the sword?)

jtr7
28th Aug 2010, 08:44
Yes. The equipment one had to start with, the options available modified by how much one could spend, the items placed around the mission, and the player's skills vs. whims, all were puzzles and pieces of the series of puzzles throughout.

AlexOfSpades
11th Sep 2010, 22:15
Does the Quiver Test allow me to use any of the following:

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/images/nov07/SL_Thief3RPS.jpg

Then i'll have a few of the Key arrows, a kebab arrow to feed the local burrick, a pregnancy tester (you can never know) or even a Gordon one.

I mean.

There could be headcrabs somewhere.

Why not.

But seriously, a 20 arrows quiver test would be most interesting as a limit at least. Because in the first stage of Deadly Shadows you can have an infinite supply of water arrows, unbalacing the game in its very first mission.

Besides Garrett has to carry a lot. Arrows are lightweight but those crystals maybe arent. (only the Gas arrows look somewhat light ; the water crystals seem to be heavy as a ice block)

Tafferite
13th Sep 2010, 12:36
6 water arrows (so many of them about)
5 broadheads ( see above comment)
4 Fire (for my lovely creature foes)
3 rope (I often loose them so 3 is good)
1 gas (for emergencies)
1 vine (again for emergencies)
0 noisemakers (just use plates/broadheads instead)
0 Holy water (Id use vials of the stuff instead)
0 Moss (Im quite good at sneaky sneaking)

PS I love the new arrow selection Alex!

I think Garret may need the spork one for if he visits KFC

Asadar
13th Sep 2010, 18:04
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/images/nov07/SL_Thief3RPS.jpg

:lol:

It's been a while since I had not laughed like that! (maybe one day in fact, but this picture is excellent ! Thank Alex :D)

23silver
14th Sep 2010, 09:11
:)
I would have
5 water arrows
2 rope arrows (that is why climbing gloves are so good they work almost everywhere)
2 fire arrows
Never use moss arrows except for fracton status
5 gas arrows
6 browdhead (take out archers {headshot})

Throwable knife for close contact kills when you are hiding

23silver

jtr7
14th Sep 2010, 16:00
"...climbing gloves are so good they work almost everywhere"

That's new.

"Never use moss arrows except for fracton status"

Have you actually played a Thief game other than TDS? You should! :)

Sharazito
16th Sep 2010, 21:48
i only use broadhead and gas arrows..

15 broadhead
5 gas