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View Full Version : SECRETS & HIDDEN ROUTES & PUZZLES - All Discussion Thread



Jilly The Taffer
21st May 2009, 23:54
I really liked the secrets Garrett had to find in some of the Thief 2 levels.
These consisted of hidden doors and objects. Or was it just doors? :scratch:

Anyway, this sort of thing would be nice in Thief 4 I think.

Or would it be a bit too....Tomb Raidery?

1N54N3
22nd May 2009, 00:35
Well at least if it is, Eidos won't sue them :P

Slither
22nd May 2009, 01:04
The secrets added replay value. It would be crazy for them to leave this out.

TazmanianD
22nd May 2009, 01:23
I love secrets so much and was sad when they took them out of TDS. I particularly like the found secret sound that plays which makes me feel like Pavlov's dog.

Myth
22nd May 2009, 03:45
Loved the secrets! And the biggest secret of them all of course - the bow upgrade in TDP :) Secrets should definitely return to the game.

Lady_Of_The_Vine
22nd May 2009, 09:51
Secrets are a 'must have', in my opinion. :cool:
Not only were they fun to find, but also gave an incentive for voluntary exploration of the environment.
Finding a secret switch to locate a hidden route/passageway, or stash of loot, was very satisfying indeed. :thumb:

HellionKal
22nd May 2009, 10:00
Finding a secret switch to locate a hidden route/passageway, or stash of loot, was very satisfying indeed. :thumb:


Oh so true...

Definitely a must-include.

Jilly The Taffer
22nd May 2009, 10:39
Glad you all feel the same way as me :thumb:

With DP having a few secrets and MA having loads, they really made a mistake when DS consisted of none whatsoever. Lets hope Eidos Montreal won't make the same mistake.

NathanGPLC
22nd May 2009, 12:19
The secrets in the Thief games were generally a really exciting addition to a level; and despite the fact that it broke immersion slightly, I loved the "Found Secret" sound/message. Got to be very satisfying after a while :-)

Of course, the challenge is to make the secrets both interesting AND worthwhile...without them being necessary to completing the game. If you HAVE to find them, they aren't really secrets, just objectives.

Unfortunately, many game producers limit non-necessary additions like that to little easter eggs or half-implemented areas. I'd be really happy to see Secret passages that lead to new routes to complete an objective; or Secret storerooms that fit the layout of a building and the paranoia of its occupants, but just random "Oh look, a button; hmm, it opened the wall, and there's a golden necklace there!" areas that don't fit the level or 'story so far' make it feel more like collecting golden stars in Mario than skulking around, using our natural cunning and Thiefy skills to rob the place blind. :D

Blessed be,
~Nathan

Durinda D'Bry
22nd May 2009, 12:27
I also think that it was very wrong that hidden things (switches, buttons, doors) were under-used in DS. They actually had something interesting (let's remember that you could find Cradle map in Old Quarter) but it was not enough.
But I don't like if there are very complex puzzles involved to main plot - I think some FM authors did it (like Night Watch by Fidcal - do not understand me wrong, it's very good work but I had many problems while play it).

Flashart
22nd May 2009, 13:32
Secrets shouldn't be vital to finish the level, but an easier way, or loot bonus or some little
advantage that makes them worth searching for.
I think in large buildings you would have secret passages/ rooms etc also hidden supplies etc so while not exactly necessary they do help to "flesh" the level out.

Fiddlesticks
22nd May 2009, 14:29
Secrets are a MUST !

Maethius
22nd May 2009, 14:34
Secrets were a staple of the first two games, and their loss was noticeable in TDS... like everything else that was left out of the game. ;)

Jilly The Taffer
22nd May 2009, 14:48
Secrets shouldn't be vital to finish the level, but an easier way, or loot bonus or some little
advantage that makes them worth searching for.
I think in large buildings you would have secret passages/ rooms etc also hidden supplies etc so while not exactly necessary they do help to "flesh" the level out.

I agree, they should just be small advantages, only given to you if you find them. And if you don't find them, then it's no big deal, your just missing some extra loot, a special weapon or a passageway to finish the level quicker.

Direlord
22nd May 2009, 15:59
I agree secrets are needed especially little tunnels or so that got to your objective easier but were harder to find. They were one of the reasons i thought the map design of the first 2 Thief games were so well done.

xDarknessFallsx
23rd May 2009, 05:42
TDS removing the secret stuff was an abomination!

DoomyDoomyDoomDoom
23rd May 2009, 07:36
Secrets shouldn't be vital to finish the level, but an easier way, or loot bonus or some little
advantage that makes them worth searching for.
I think in large buildings you would have secret passages/ rooms etc also hidden supplies etc so while not exactly necessary they do help to "flesh" the level out.

Agreed.

Secrets are fun. Sometimes it's maddening though to see that I missed a secret or many secrets at the end level stats (not just talking Thief here). I try not to let it get to me but sometimes it makes me spend hours in a level just wondering what the heck I missed. I kinda wish games didn't tell you how many secrets you missed. :scratch::mad2:

Espion
23rd May 2009, 09:59
Absolutely, bring back secrets again.

And NathanGPLC hit the nail on the head with his post. Please take note devs!

Mikkowl
23rd May 2009, 15:36
I love all that stuff. Mysteries and secrets. Gives such a flair to the environment and the people who built it.

Stath MIA
23rd May 2009, 16:38
Secrets are awesome, bring 'em back EM!

Odyseeos
2nd Jun 2009, 15:48
"Nothing like a hidden room"-- line from T3. A lot more inspiring in the fact than in the saying.

The long search for the secrets in T2 is probably the most memorable thing in gaming to me. Suddenly seeing the position of the music box, the position before the patch on T2, was one of the best moments I ever had. That loft was geometrically necessary, but it was almost undiscoverable.

Platinumoxicity
2nd Jun 2009, 16:26
Of course for those who are disgusted by the excitement of searching for loot and secrets, EM should include an optional "secret glint" that makes secret doors, buttons and treasures glow red and make noise. :D

Blue Sky
2nd Jun 2009, 16:42
If TDS had kept in secrets, imagine just how small the levels would have looked.

GmanPro
2nd Jun 2009, 16:44
Of course for those who are disgusted by the excitement of searching for loot and secrets, EM should include an optional "secret glint" that makes secret doors, buttons and treasures glow red and make noise. :D

LOL, that's actually what they did. Remember those glowing glyphs that you could use to reveal hidden rooms or passages? There was only a handful of them, but that's almost exactly like what you described.

esme
2nd Jun 2009, 16:47
I missed having secrets in TDS, finding a hidden switch the moves a painting or a floor panel you have to leave something heavy on to open a hidden door made things a lot more fun

Hamadriyad
2nd Jun 2009, 19:01
Ahh, secrets. "How did I miss them, where is these secrets,damn it!"
I missed that feeling. And to say" Yess, I find it" when FOUND SECRET appears.

TazmanianD
2nd Jun 2009, 21:24
LOL, that's actually what they did. Remember those glowing glyphs that you could use to reveal hidden rooms or passages? There was only a handful of them, but that's almost exactly like what you described.

That's a pretty good point but there is a distinction that made the glyphs necessary. You could only access the rooms at certain points in the game. I think it would be terrible to allow the player to carefully search over an area, only to have a secret appear there later. I wouldn't want to feel like I have to re-search every inch of the city after every mission; that would suck. I actually liked having the bonus areas that you could access later in the game, but of course I'd like actual secrets too that don't sit in your lap and call you momma.

Aristofiles
4th Jun 2009, 20:51
SECRETS!!! i remember playing through the missions over and over to uncover every single one. Think i missed a few in the edn anyway :rolleyes:

A must in the game. Ofcourse G will find secret passages in old castles.

Yaphy
4th Jun 2009, 21:07
Yes! Secret passages to your destination in levels. Well, not all the way. If you play a level first time, you will probably take the path that looks easiest on the map. The second time you play that same level, you might find some quicker ways to do some stuff. And after some playthrougs you might find a hidden path.
If you open that door into that "meaningles" room, you will only find a closet. If you open the closet you find it empty. If you shoot a fire arrow into the open closet, the inner wall of it will burn down and a path will be opend behind it. Or you could just push the closet to the side. ;)
The path leads you to an window at a tower you could see from another side of the map, but couldnt get to. From there you can just use a rope arrow to get past many nasty guards that you had so much problems with before.

Gillie
4th Jun 2009, 22:10
The secrets are good,some of the best part of the game and the harder they are more fun.
I loved the secret passages. Old castles yes more musty mansions.
The secrets in TDS were just too easy. :cool:

Odyseeos
6th Jun 2009, 23:52
I like secrets, but I'd like to do away with the convention of having a secrets-counter telling you you missed something or as a score-stat. Just tuck a few areas here and there and let me find them on my own through exploration, and let my thoroughness reward me, and maybe let me discover something new on another playthrough without having me intentionally searching for that one secret I know I missed.


For that matter, get rid of the loot-counter, too. The fans will find it all, and publish it, so it's not necessary to encourage players to find that last piece of loot, or discover the missing secret, plus I would just love to see Thief continue to break commercial orthodoxy and prove how fun new ideas really can be.

I think it's much more fun, and definitely a better challenge, if you don't have a built-in reason to go read somewhere. I really like the counters. Without them, you pretty much have to go look just to check. People who write those things normally read them off PC folders, anyway. And I do wish that wasn't possible.

lefty
7th Jun 2009, 00:37
Of course I'd love to see secrets in the new game. Though perhaps less of the "look under the desk for a secret lever" variety and more like "follow the specific NPC and learn the password into the store warehouse" or you could find a key in one level that opens a door in another level. A big metal door down the end of one alley that you wonder what it's for, and you find out later when someone arrives from overseas and leaves it unlocked you can go in and loot the docks. Or raid a hobo's nest for his one item of value in the whole world. More situational secrets, rather than secret button -> secret door

BG_HHaunt
12th Jun 2009, 06:44
Secrets MUST be in thief 4.There is always a need of them.Like an alternative way in a castle or mansion.Or secret places with loot.And some eastern eggs won't hurt as well,like an eastern egg where you find Benny drinking or something like that

xDarknessFallsx
13th Jun 2009, 19:16
Yes, bring secrets back. But in a well thought out manner, like T2. Don't hold our hands by shining lights on the secret switches. Don't make them blink. Have tiny, hidden switches and a variety of other switches (like torch holders you can twist, or areas above fireplaces in chimneys, or tapestries you cut down, like T2). I can't believe how badly TDS failed in the 'secrets' department and if Th4f fails, I will be one very sad taffer.

Have tunnels and areas behind walls that 'make sense' and are part of the world, rather than something thrown in just for the sake of it being a secret area as most games do. Hidden treasures. Hidden scrolls/artifacts. Hidden worlds, not just little hidden closets.

Platinumoxicity
13th Jun 2009, 21:33
Has anyone else found 6 out of 5 secrets in T2's "Blackmail"? :D

fayfuya
15th Jun 2009, 03:33
They didn't "took" the secrets from TDS, there were many secrets there, but i think there should be more.

Hypevosa
15th Jun 2009, 04:15
don't think there are secrets in TDS, I'm playin through it right now. Some loot's a little sneaky, but nothing is truly a secret. The closest thing to a secret is the chamber at the top of the keeper library that you enter pressing a button in one of the book cases. Garrett even spouts his famous line about the secret room in a house being his favorite. It's disappointing because there isn't much in there besides. But in actual levels, moira's house comes closest to having a secret, but you NEED to find it to progress in the level, and there's a viktrola that tells you about it... There's also the trap door in that level but it protrudes 3 inches from the floor, I mean... come on?

Vae
16th Jun 2009, 11:01
Of course for those who are disgusted by the excitement of searching for loot and secrets, EM should include an optional "secret glint" that makes secret doors, buttons and treasures glow red and make noise. :D

:lol:You just made my heart "gleam". :o

Taking secrets out of THIEF is just another example of how TDS killed the mystery of the game.

catelee2u
28th Jun 2009, 03:56
Gotta have secret areas, items/loot. Absolute must. Miles more fun

ToMegaTherion
28th Jun 2009, 09:14
Framed is a good model for how this sort of thing should work.

But then, Framed is just a good model for Thief in general.

Gillie
3rd Jul 2009, 14:28
The secret area's and the puzzles to find them makes the game so much more fun.
Hidden switches and rooms. Underground passages. The waterways in Christine's missions are amazing through flooded caves to another places.

Matty101
8th Sep 2009, 09:08
secrets are necessary, sneaking is only part of a thieves skill. The other half is finding the good loot and most ppl don't put their valuables where everyone can see.

windwalker
8th Sep 2009, 09:18
Go for the secret area's!

Someone mentioned about a "glitch" that shows the place of a secret place. Well, a lot t3'ish :D Another idea could be that there are hints for a secret place. Maybe some weird note of a Hammerite, saying that "the sinfull idiot just disappeared around the corner and nowhere to be found." could be the hint for a secret passage there?

PJMaybe
8th Sep 2009, 20:46
Secrets must be back!

I don't expect they all have to lead somewhere for a reward though. Sometimes it was a great little addition to find something that was neither loot nor equipment but maybe a dead body or a note from one NPC to another. Anyone remember the room in the bank? Or of course there was the library in Casing the Joint (or was there loot in that secret room too? I can't remember) but just something to add to the great feeling you get playing Thief. Sorely missed in TDS :(

I liked the idea that Garrett may find a secret by following an NPC. As long as there aren't too many like that. I really like the satisfaction of finding a hidden switch or lever.

Hecateus
9th Sep 2009, 00:54
Scale the available (non-story) secrets with chosen difficulty level.

Randomize their position when possible; with lowest difficulty always has static story-needed secrets; the few real Secrets are still in random positions.

Optional loot/secret counter, unavailable on Expert

Extra and expanded conversations and other abstracts can be as 'secrets' too.

Keeper Gurgul
9th Sep 2009, 02:40
Alternate routes should not be "secrets". They should form a natural part of each mission, each leaving an open possibility to the player, offering a different approach and strategy. Some can be of course better hidden than others or just harder to access. Maybe a nice idea is to inlude some in-jokes or subtle easter-eggs as some of the secret content. I'm not talking of course about dancing burricks or tea-time zombies - a well-placed book, a painting, an overheard conversation, fragment of a stage play, etc. should do the trick. As in the previous titles, designers should bear in mind that the secrets are there to reward perceptive and exploratory approach to the mission, not to force players to run around pushing the "use" button while spinning the whole 360-angle in hope to activate some 2x2 pixel button, additionally disguised as a wallpaper element. :)

xDarknessFallsx
9th Sep 2009, 06:47
I thoroughly enjoy the secrets in TMA. TDP didn't have nearly as many (or maybe I just couldn't find them or didn't spend as much time looking) and so I much prefer TMA in this arena. I wouldn't want EM getting carried away, though -- which it seems jtr7 is wanting to happen. I think there would be a point where I'd say, "enough is enough already" if nearly every citizen had secret stuff.

I would like the eccentric nobles having the most; the rich having a good amount; and maybe the poor having some here and there.

I think it's safer to err on the side of "too many" than "not enough"... but I wouldn't want EM to make so many that it becomes passe^.

CerraMorgan
9th Sep 2009, 16:46
Secrets and bonus objectives are the best part of Thief! I love searching everywhere for hidden switches, movable panels, hidden tunnels and whatnot. I would love to see more, and bring back the ability to slash tapestries - there were some great secrets hidden behind tapestries.

Secrets are always best when they're not part of the game objectives, just extras. I personally like the "success" sound when a secret or bonus objective is found, it's very satisfying. I don't like the idea of a "secret glint", that's too much like the "loot glint" in TDS and would make it WAY too easy.

I also like the secret count at the end - it's incentive for me to replay the level to try to find what I missed. I don't want to have to go hunting down the answer in a forum somewhere to make sure I didn't miss anything. How else am I going to know how well I did compared to how well I could have done? For those who don't want this feature, maybe it could be optional?

Davehall380
9th Sep 2009, 18:19
It wasn't a problem to show loot and secret success at the end of the mission in TDP and TMA - why should it be changed now?

CerraMorgan
9th Sep 2009, 22:21
It wasn't a problem to show loot and secret success at the end of the mission in TDP and TMA - why should it be changed now?

I agree. Stats were available at the ends of TDS missions as well, but you had to specifically go to that screen to see them. For those who've mentioned that they don't want to see the stats, I think that's a reasonable alternative.

I'd also like to see a bonus objective stat - again, I don't want to have to go hunting in forums to find out whether or not I got everything. I don't want to know what I missed - just if I missed something. Even with spoiler covers, sometimes forums give away too much when all you're looking for is a slight nudge.

Nephthys
10th Sep 2009, 01:30
Having alternate ways into places was the best part of The Metal Age, in my opinion. I'm playing through it right now, and I'm going about things differently than before just because I can. I just finished Blackmailed and I totally missed all of the houses surrounding the estate the first time I played it. Or in the Bank level I was running around on the rooftops for a while before breaking in a balcony door.
I was looking for stairs to get to upper levels of buildings and I realized you can use a robe arrow a lot of the time.
The possibilities were endless in that game.
Something that was really stolen from the story and gameplay of Dark Shadows. It was kind of saddening. It would have benefited from hidden tunnels in buildings and stuff like that.

Rockn-Roll
2nd Aug 2010, 05:27
Secrets are a necessity of the World of Thief. There are many factions that are sneaking around each other...the only way for them to get an advantage was to gather and work in hidden places...set traps for those that come sneaking after them...and secure elements which are stored for when the time is right. Garret doesn't need these things, there's always some other way to accomplish his goals, but the briefings sometimes include hints that someone has an alternate way into a building that he needs to rob...entrances which are hidden and require speaking a specific phrase (which Garret can learn by following someone that he suspects is going there), or maybe an item in another home that he has the option to sneak into. These things prevented the action from being linear...it allowed Garret to find shortcuts through areas that he previously had to painstakenly stalk through the shadows. As I said...Garret can always stalk back through the shadows, but for example in TMA there was a shortcut through the prison, but Garret could only learn of it if he blackjacked all the guards...or at least went every where that a guard was at...and recognized the layout.

JFSOCC
2nd Aug 2010, 11:08
I liked the secrets, but I also like them to make sense. IE: a purpose for them being there. that could be any of the following:

The owner of the building is paranoid and wanted an exit (then it has to lead outside from a place that is often visited by the owner, and perhaps it shouldn't open FROM outside)
It's a hidden entrance for the owners' secret liaisons with his mistress (need a loveshack room ;))
It's a servants entrance for those types of servants you don't want your guests to see
it's a panic room
it's a place to be a voyeuristic spy on your guests
it's a room that got lost in the renovation, in a city where buildings are built over previous buildings and their foundations, and again, and again, entire passageways might be blocked off without the owner knowing this.
In the past thieves have tried to tunnel their way in (or out), the tunnels still exist.

those are some of the reasons that I would find acceptable for these hidden passages. I would hate to see one "Just 'cuz"

Platinumoxicity
2nd Aug 2010, 11:33
Some people might also want to hide certain valuables or illegal items in secret rooms. The Baron's tax collectors don't care how much they can gather, as long as it's enough. But they can't collect what they can't find.

Asadar
2nd Aug 2010, 12:41
Not to mention the secret caches of smugglers, thieves, treasure hunters, grave robbers and all people that can be found in the Thief universe (that is a bit of everything :D ).
There can also be one or two secrets shrines of those who practice illegally certain forms of magic or science more or less strange and dangerous... :rolleyes:

As weel said Rockn'Roll "Secrets are a necessity of the World of Thief. There are many factions that are sneaking around each other..." ;)

Asadar
3rd Aug 2010, 08:50
Ho... well. I'm not really the type who compares my stats, but I like to finish a game until the end when there are little challenges and secrets to find. So on principle I'm not against some secrets to find. It adds a little life and challenge before restarting the game and try another method to finish it.

But I like when secrets make sense and aren't just series of cloned objects to find throughout the game. I love the secrets that are part of the universe and that gives you more information on it (for those interested), even though they do not relate to the main story.

If the stats-counter is good integrated in the game, yep, why not. ;)

(Thanks jtr7 for the throwing me light on the subject)

Asadar
3rd Aug 2010, 09:31
Surely. Try to integrate it more into the interface of the game. Making it part of the universe might be an idea...

Why not a kind of notebook ?
Discovered a secret is being added a little note in a kind travelog. The number of pages of the book tells players how many secrets there are in total in the game, and how many he has already found. ;)

AlexOfSpades
8th Sep 2010, 17:49
What, bow upgrade in the Dark Project?

Really?

Oh my god, is there something in the game that i didnt noticed? Something big like an upgrade?

Dont tell me where is it! I'll find it.

Vae
8th Sep 2010, 20:51
What, bow upgrade in the Dark Project?

Really?

Oh my god, is there something in the game that i didnt noticed? Something big like an upgrade?

Dont tell me where is it! I'll find it.

SPOILER ALERT!It's in the Alarus extension...down in the Bonehoard...;)

Asadar
9th Sep 2010, 10:16
We never run out of surprises ! ^^

Thank Vae. ;)

frozenfoxy
9th Sep 2010, 17:47
I was rather disappointed with TDS taking out the secrets as well. It's a fun game, but far too dumbed down to really feel like the original thief games. The objectives on expert mode don't even make it feel like it's expert mode... and the guards are absolute morons. Disturbing a guard in TDP or TMA on expert meant you were going to have issues with that guard. Ah well.

In any case, yes, I'd love to see a return of secrets into the Thief series that don't involve secrets you /must/ find to complete a mission. I love the feeling of exploring levels and feeling like I've found something spectacular just via exploration and carefully looking around. I know for a fact I've never found all the secrets in the Thief series, especially in TMA, but TDS really spoiled that fun for me. A few nooks and crannies aren't going to cut it in the Thief universe. I really hope EM doesn't butcher Thief any further with T4.

Icy wishes,
FrozenFoxy

Asadar
9th Sep 2010, 18:30
+1

Entirely agree with you Frozenfoxy. ;):thumb:

xDarknessFallsx
9th Sep 2010, 19:48
I like that you can complete all the objectives for the first level of TMA with only exploring like 10% of the map. You would be completely oblivious to the size of it if you didn't explore it, as I was when I first played it. And it was fun to explore once I did... The ambient music and some cool rooms. And as you progress through the game, there are many areas and rooms, and whole sections of mansions you may not ever see until your 3rd or 4th playthrough, or ever, depending on your thoroughness. I love that. I hope T4 amazes us with a similar approach. I don't want T4 somehow forcing us to explore every inch of their map and see everything they constructed through objectives or by how they design the levels.

Hypevosa
10th Sep 2010, 04:00
I hope I never see a "Find x secrets" objective.

:thumb:

Way to ruin the fun of looking of having them by making it required and frustrating when you can't find enough.

Tryst
10th Sep 2010, 07:37
:thumb:

Way to ruin the fun of looking of having them by making it required and frustrating when you can't find enough.
Not having them also mkes for fun when someone comes out with a revelation like the bow upgrade.

It can also make for good fun with people who are gullible, ask them if they found the ice arrows yet, knowing full well there aren't any. Watch them post day after day to say they still couldn't find them. :D

Asadar
10th Sep 2010, 07:53
Yep, surely the "Find X obkects" objective is killing the immersion and the fun to explore maps (and explore again and again with news surprises).
And I think it's true for every kind of players, the experts like the killers : The experts like challenge but like to explore the map by their own too. And the killers often hate to be forced to follow a secondary objective to "find the little bug" (french expression ?) after killing all NPC in the map. :rolleyes:

JFSOCC
12th Sep 2010, 22:35
I hope I never see a "Find x secrets" objective.

Agreed, one mission with that objective was enough.

JFSOCC
12th Sep 2010, 23:37
I was referring to the one mission where you have to steal all the masks, that mansion, at expert, tells you to find at least x secrets. or it could be the same mansion in the preparation mission, I don;t recall precisely

Casing the joint:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLTTGrVsRQ4

at 2:00 minutes. "Find at least seven secrets"

xDarknessFallsx
13th Sep 2010, 04:19
Speaking of ... I enjoyed Casing the Joint and Masks. I don't normally like re-visiting levels (no more Lost City please :) ), but CtJ and Masks were more tolerable for me. I would've preferred more correlation between your events and notes in CtJ vs. Masks... and I like that Masks wasn't exactly the same. It was nice for what it was, but is risky to something similar again in T4. EM would have to knock it out of the park in terms of fun and not feeling like a re-hash of the same level for me to enjoy.

Platinumoxicity
13th Sep 2010, 07:04
Masks is the best mission in T2 IMO.But Casing isn't that bad. Some people hate the "fail on see" objective, but that's ridiculous because there are so few guards there. And the mission is designed well to look like it's really an empty house waiting for someone to come home and take the furniture out from under the tarps. It really feels like you're casing the place before the big night.

Lady_Of_The_Vine
17th Feb 2011, 13:17
We must have secrets and hidden routes again for T4. It was so much FUN!!! :cool:

Platinumoxicity
17th Feb 2011, 14:01
Speaking of secrets, I've been playing Thief since 1998 and last time I played I still managed to find a secret area that I hadn't found before. :)

By the way... I haven't playd Thief Gold as long as many of the hardcore fans. I played the original Dark Project almost a decade before getting Gold. So I'd like to know... are there any secrets in Gold that are exclusive to Normal- and Hard difficulty modes? I've only played Gold on Expert. I remember that in TDP there was a secret passage in Cragscleft that isn't found on Expert difficulty, but are there any added secrets in the Gold version?

Vae
17th Feb 2011, 14:36
To my knowledge, Gold is identical to TDP in regards to secrets...other than of course, the new secrets presented in the three new levels.

Vae
18th Feb 2011, 02:30
Yeah, that's true...I've been playing Gold for so long, I'd forgotten those differences...I stand corrected...:)

Tryst
18th Feb 2011, 10:23
I definitely don't want to see loot stats during the game.

The games that provide only a linear path are boring. I used to like the secret doors and alternate routes to get to the destination in Thief. This allows you to miss certain parts of the map that may contain special loot and such, it goes back to the things like the Bow Upgrade and means you can replay it later to find things you may have missed the first time.

One thing I'd like to see is special loot hidden that may trigger an extra mission. The mission is not essential to the story and maybe like a quest list in RPG games, you can do it next or leave it until later. It could be fun to have one of them that can't be done immediately unless you want to attempt it without the equipment you might need to make it easier but don't get until later in the game.

theBlackman
18th Feb 2011, 11:03
[...] since it's pretty difficult to cover all spaces well in the first playthrough of the sprawling maps.

Actually it's not. It just means you need to SLOOOW down and really check out the areas as you come to them.

As a Beta-tester for many missions, myself and other testers, spend a lot of time checking areas, trying outrageous tricks to try to break a mission etc. All of which means being thorough and patient.

If you are not in a hurry to "Beat" the game, you should not miss any of the 'secrets' or other not obvious loot, routes, or 'tricks'.

The best examples that the experienced players should recognize are the use of an arrow to trigger a button; the elevator in TMA; the bridge in TDP; the gate in Calendra's legacy near the cathedral (that last might be an error, I may be a little unsure about that one) but such abound in the original games and many of the FMs.

Patience and acting like a THIEF where you check under the mattress for hidden money, open every drawer in a house, check the freezer for hidden jewelry and money, every closet for a safe or other hidden items will reveal all these things to you. That is if you take the time to play the game and not just try to finish the mission so you can get to the next and the end of the game.

Platinumoxicity
18th Feb 2011, 21:35
That's probably one of the reasons why I still haven't found all loot in that mission. But that's fine. That means there's still things left to explore after all these years.

theBlackman
18th Feb 2011, 22:07
I screwed myself out of exploring some whole maps by accidentally meeting all objectives before I knew it, such as in the Old Quarter. I'd gotten everything but the loot requirement, and I was crawling all over the place, picked up a piece of loot, and it ended. I was fully immersed and it was a shock. If I had saved the Keeper Grotto or even the Serpentyle Torc for last, I wouldn't have cut myself short.

That's why I never complete all the objectives. So I can wander around and play tag with the guards and beasties all day.:D

And regardless of how thorough you are there is always something new to try if not find.

The games and FMs are replayable to the nth degree.

kamilavalamp
20th Feb 2012, 18:38
I love those secret passages and rooms, every time i think of when i turned those torches to sneak through the haunted and abandoned prison cells and past the guard torturing the prisoner so i can break into the watch headquarters undetected from right under their feet in the framed mission from the metal age it just brings a smile to my face. It's that well thought out detailed level design, loading zone free, no hint, open missions, and the sense of accomplishment you get from finding a path and accomplishing your tasks all on your own without any hints (just a sarcastic remark or two from Garrett) that develops the good memories and not only keeps people playing on a regular basis 12 years after the games release, but also keeps them developing their own missions and expansions for the game to try to quench their never ending thirst for more. Deadly Shadows was missing that those qualities and never gave the memories the first 2 games did, it's third person perspective never allowed people to relate the same or get the same feeling that it was them finding their own way through the missions and it's level design had loading zones that killed the feeling that you were really there and without that feeling of immersion and satisfaction fans were horribly disappointed and newcomers to the series only got the experience of an average ordinary game and after they beat it they just left it on a shelf and it never got the thirst for more or the highly dedicated and devoted fan base that to this day still develop new content for the first two games in a never-ending mission to develop something that comes close to the flawless perfection of the original missions of the first two games.

zhunt
21st Feb 2012, 02:32
im sitting here now humming away to the tune of team america world police...........

"secret routes.......**** YEAH" !!!!!!

gotta have secret routes, they were great

Lady_Of_The_Vine
10th Mar 2012, 09:47
im sitting here now humming away to the tune of team america world police...........

"secret routes.......**** YEAH" !!!!!!

gotta have secret routes, they were great

This is why I love to play the fan missions. :thumb:

Matuzzz
10th Mar 2012, 17:01
!SPOILER!
When it comes to secrets, the Blackmail mission always comes to mind. You got a tip, which told you about secret passage to Truart´s manor. When you got to this passage you could find very well hidden place with graves of Truart´s family but also just recently digged one for Truart, what hinted future events. Then when you find Truart´s body(to which you could also got through attic secret) and take his body to the grave, you are rewarded. This was one of those missions that maked Thief 3 dumbed down game.

Lmaoboat
15th Mar 2013, 05:56
One of my favorite things about the Thief games, and games in general is combing over every corner trying to find secrets. It's a great feeling having your instincts to invest gate suspicious objects or get to out-of-reach areas validated by the developers with some hidden loot and a "secret found" jingle. Ideally, this shouldn't even be in question, but I hope Theif 4 will have secret areas and caches, and lots of them.

MasterTaffer
15th Mar 2013, 06:05
I think we can expect plenty of well hidden nooks and crannies in Thief's areas.

Nephthys
15th Mar 2013, 06:15
but the real question.

Will there be dancing undead?

MasterTaffer
15th Mar 2013, 06:19
but the real question.

Will there be dancing undead?


http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ls70ywzAbV1qko0vq.gif

Zharre
15th Mar 2013, 08:51
If there is no reason to closely inspect corners/bookcases/behind furniture/etc., for hidden switches and the like, I am going to be one sad gamer, because I LOVE secrets. And the game will be far, far shorter, since I won't need to take my time, which will also make me a sad gamer.

Please don't make me sad. Secrets are awesome!

YsaNoire
15th Mar 2013, 10:01
I concur, secrets are awesome (and a must). Nothing says "thank you for the time spent on exploring our game" better.

The Deuce
15th Mar 2013, 13:48
I'd be really happy to see Secret passages that lead to new routes to complete an objective; or Secret storerooms that fit the layout of a building and the paranoia of its occupants, but just random "Oh look, a button; hmm, it opened the wall, and there's a golden necklace there!" areas that don't fit the level or 'story so far' make it feel more like collecting golden stars in Mario than skulking around, using our natural cunning and Thiefy skills to rob the place blind. :D

Indeed, and I'd like to build on this. Secrets that you find just by randomly clicking all over the place are just annoying. The best secrets are those that a perceptive individual can infer or deduce the existence of by paying attention to their surroundings.

Platinumoxicity
16th Mar 2013, 10:45
SECRETS:

Replayed Deus Ex Human Revolution.

-Found an entire new sidequest that I had overlooked.
-Found a praxis kit inside a concrete wall in a sewer.
-Found a way inside the wall structures and plumbing in the Omega Ranch

Eidos Montréal. Thief 4. Please?

Hypevosa
16th Mar 2013, 18:44
SECRETS:

Replayed Deus Ex Human Revolution.

-Found an entire new sidequest that I had overlooked.
-Found a praxis kit inside a concrete wall in a sewer.
-Found a way inside the wall structures and plumbing in the Omega Ranch

Eidos Montréal. Thief 4. Please?

This is what makes me think people who kept saying "deus ex HR is not like the original at all!" were just too distracted with the option to use cover mechanics and 3rd person.

Game felt almost exactly the same to me - and I played them back to back.

fbdbh
16th Mar 2013, 20:13
I'm not only looking forward to bonus content and more valuables, but the SENSE that there is more, but maybe not accessible.

Thief had a great atmosphere where I could feel that something uncanny and forbidden is happening behind the scenes. I want stuff like the haunted house with the serpentine... thingy in the first Cathedral mission. Or the basement in the Truart mansion, oh and the cemetery there!

But even more, like the Constantine mansion with many rooms that I couldn't even think of why or how they are there or what purpose they serve... this kind of thing. I want secrets as they are secrets and remain secrets. No explanations, but sudden surprises of the w and the t and the f.

Taffer17
15th Jul 2013, 19:21
Alternate routes should not be "secrets". They should form a natural part of each mission, each leaving an open possibility to the player, offering a different approach and strategy. Some can be of course better hidden than others or just harder to access. Maybe a nice idea is to inlude some in-jokes or subtle easter-eggs as some of the secret content. I'm not talking of course about dancing burricks or tea-time zombies - a well-placed book, a painting, an overheard conversation, fragment of a stage play, etc. should do the trick. As in the previous titles, designers should bear in mind that the secrets are there to reward perceptive and exploratory approach to the mission, not to force players to run around pushing the "use" button while spinning the whole 360-angle in hope to activate some 2x2 pixel button, additionally disguised as a wallpaper element. :)

I would love to see a dancing burrick. :D ...but as an easter egg, not a secret

Pillowman
16th Jul 2013, 02:41
This is what makes me think people who kept saying "deus ex HR is not like the original at all!" were just too distracted with the option to use cover mechanics and 3rd person.

Game felt almost exactly the same to me - and I played them back to back.

Agreed. I fully admit that I did not give that game enough credit on the first go round.

The next time I played through it, I forced myself to pick an entirely different playstyle (the PEPS Gun! So much fun!), deliberately pick the augs that I thought were useless/unnecessary from the get go, and purposefully tried to explore where I thought the devs might have overlooked...and the game felt entirely fresh, and reacted perfectly and fully to my polar opposite choices. I too found more than one sidequest that I'd completely missed because I assumed that EM had dropped the ball somehow. The boss fights were still poopy, but everything else felt so much better once I gave it a chance to actually show itself off. Shame on me.

I won't be making the same mistake with Thief (part of why I'm more hesitant than others to bash EM. Have a little faith. y'all...)

Xalxitz
1st Aug 2013, 22:04
I'm suprised no one here talked about the bow upgrade. By many players regarded as myth, because of it's cheer difficulty obtaining it, we all have to agree that it is the most hidden secret in the game.

jtbalogh
3rd Aug 2013, 20:27
Not mentioned yet because still busy looking for the hidden sword upgrade.

Jonah47
5th Aug 2013, 03:24
Secrets need to be in this game. They're fun to look for, and they add a ton to replay value ad challenge.

Also, the sound effect the game plays whenever you find a secret should return along with it. I get incredibly nostalgic when I hear that.

Black Vine
14th Oct 2013, 16:46
For me and I know many others the original thief games and "Fan missions" for that matter, really kept you enthralled because of the puzzles.
It wasn't just the stealing, which was good! don't get me wrong but it was the puzzles that really captivated you!
One great one that springs to mind was the Shale bridge cradle! what an amazing puzzle mission another would be return to the cathedral from thief one when you have to go find the holy symbol then get it blessed etc. etc.
Now I've watched most of the release vids and interviews for this new Thief and not once have I seen or heard mention of any puzzles? Now if anyone knows of any mention please let me know because I really hope there are as EM never listened to us about much else i.e. Stephen Russell etc. etc. so If there's no puzzles I won't even buy it!
By puzzles I don't mean finding secrets "which is ok" but I mean having to work and think very hard about how to work something out!!!
It's starting to look like another good game ruined just to please console gamers who will make them lots of money No offence!

Anyway We live in hope!!

xlchtloi
14th Oct 2013, 17:08
I think opening Northcrest vault can be considered a puzzle: first searching for switch on picture frame, then operating this weird contraption. I can't describe it well, so you better see for yourself: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acAxcAEKcOg&feature=share&t=24m :o

Personally I was - and still am - captivated by unique mix of all of the old Thief's features: stealth, action, puzzles, plot. That old, almost-forgotten games provided me with more experiences than most of the games made in last decade...

Black Vine
14th Oct 2013, 17:33
Personally I was - and still am - captivated by unique mix of all of the old Thief's features: stealth, action, puzzles, plot. That old, almost-forgotten games provided me with more experiences than most of the games made in last decade...

HERE HERE!!

And I read that EM never used SR because "THEY" wanted to change the feel or something like that? so why call him Garrett? why call it Thief?? why use place names from the originals?? WHY NOT JUST DO WHAT WE ASKED??? BECAUSE SR IS GARRETT AND NO-ONE ELSE!!!! EM SHOULD'VE CALLED HIM FRED OR SOMETHING!

knox140
14th Oct 2013, 19:20
Gorrett. Gorrett the taffer.

I think they just changed the voice because the game is a reboot, so they wanted to give everything an overhaul, not just some things.

Lady_Of_The_Vine
25th Oct 2013, 11:21
And I read that EM never used SR because "THEY" wanted to change the feel or something like that?

They explained the reasons in one of the community blogs:
http://community.eidosmontreal.com/blogs/Out-of-the-Shadows
But we have another thread to discuss SR....


__


So. Heck, yeah, I hope the game includes lots of secret switches and secrets. :cool: