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View Full Version : Poll: Dark Engine 2.0: Who wants it?



Corvin25
21st May 2009, 06:25
I can't post an ACTUAL poll for some reason. If anybody knows how I can get the option to make one, please let me know and I'll delete this post and try again. I've already checked the FAQ on this subject, and it didn't help. :( There's no "Yes, create a poll" option.


.... ANYWAYS...

------------------------

The Dark Engine was one of the best gaming engines of its time. As its name implies, it specialized in dark enironments, making it an excellent way of playing a game that took place almost exclusively at night... or in the blackness of space(System Shock 2). The physics were acceptable, the sound was faithful to the setting (as in, guards sounded like they were as far away as they looked), and best of all, we didn't have that hideous "BLUE" effect that many games do with their night scenes.

With a good bit of tweaking, Eidos could in theory make a "Dark Engine 2.0," which would have all the graphical improvements common to today's games, and retain the same sort of Feel that Thief 1 and 2 had. I think an upgrade is in order!

-----------------------

Poll:

Do you want to see the Dark Engine return to the gaming industry?

( ) Yes! I loved the feel of the Dark Engine, and would love to see how it could be improved upon.

( ) No. I'm sure their current choice of engine is perfectly capable of capturing the (proper) feel of the Thief series.

WVI
21st May 2009, 06:39
Gonna say no. C'mon, what's the point? Even with the same engine it could still be a bad game. We need to expand on current concepts anyway.

Lady_Of_The_Vine
21st May 2009, 09:19
I can't post an ACTUAL poll for some reason. If anybody knows how I can get the option to make one, please let me know and I'll delete this post and try again. I've already checked the FAQ on this subject, and it didn't help. :( There's no "Yes, create a poll" option.



Are you not seeing 'additional options' section when you start a new thread?
Scroll down and you should see a tick box.
Tick it and create your poll. Be warned, there is a ten minute time limit. :D

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu83/T4Mod/POLL.jpg

Corvin25
21st May 2009, 09:22
Are you not seeing 'additional options' section when you start a new thread?
Scroll down and you should see a tick box.
Tick it and create your poll. Be warned, there is a ten minute time limit. :D


No! All I'm seeing is "Misc. Options: Show signature, Parse Links, Disable Smilies.... Thread Subscription, and Rate Thread. NOTHING ELSE. :(

Lady_Of_The_Vine
21st May 2009, 09:25
Can you post a screenshot? That would help. :)

Corvin25
21st May 2009, 09:30
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd319/BaronSarnoth/T4forumproblem.jpg

:(

Lady_Of_The_Vine
21st May 2009, 09:33
Can I just check that you took that screenshot from the main board (after clicking 'New Thread' button on top left of page) and not directly from this thread?
The topic has to be completely fresh otherwise you won't get the poll option showing. :)

Corvin25
21st May 2009, 09:35
Yes, that was from a "new thread."

Lady_Of_The_Vine
21st May 2009, 09:41
Very strange that you don't see the poll option. :scratch:
Other polls have been created successfully, so I'm a bit puzzled over this.

I will make a report to admin and return here when I get an answer. :)

Corvin25
21st May 2009, 09:43
Very strange that you don't see the poll option. :scratch:
Other polls have been created successfully, so I'm a bit puzzled over this.

I will make a report to admin and return here when I get an answer. :)

Please do. This is driving me nuts! Even if people don't like my ideas, these polls are important for determining what the players want. -_-;

Lady_Of_The_Vine
21st May 2009, 09:45
Yes, of course. :)
We may have to be patient though as I believe admin are still tucked up in bed in their part of the world. :D

Corvin25
21st May 2009, 09:47
Yes, of course. :)
We may have to be patient though as I believe admin are still tucked up in bed in their part of the world. :D

You mean Canada? That part of the world is also mine. ;) I'm nocturnal.

.... See why I like Thief so much? >.<;

Lady_Of_The_Vine
21st May 2009, 09:48
Haha, yes! :cool:

Corvin25
21st May 2009, 09:49
Haha, yes! :cool:

Okay okay...

*waits for admins tomorrow*

1N54N3
21st May 2009, 10:04
Bah, sleep is over rated, and certainly not for people in the video game industry :P

EDIT: For the record, I also can't create Polls. Someone must have recently changed the basic user forum permissions. Might look into it if you have access to that Viktoria :)

Corvin25
21st May 2009, 10:06
Bah, sleep is over rated, and certainly not for people in the video game industry :P

I wish I could be a REAL part of making this game. I'd devote every waking hour to it.

..... seriously. o_o;

Blue Sky
21st May 2009, 10:42
On a lot of forums you have to have a certain post count / been a member for so long before being able to post polls and that sort of thing.

In reply to the thread...

I think it would be amazing if Eidos Montreal managed to achive a similar look to the engine which feels like the Dark Engine, with that crisp, clean smoothness and the slight perspective warping fish eye...

Platinumoxicity
21st May 2009, 10:44
Very strange that you don't see the poll option. :scratch:
Other polls have been created successfully, so I'm a bit puzzled over this.

I will make a report to admin and return here when I get an answer. :)

I have the exact same problem. :(

Espion
21st May 2009, 10:59
With a good bit of tweaking

It would take a lot more than that to bring the Dark Engine up to date. You're talking about making an entirely new engine which would add upwards of a year or two to the development time. Unless you have masses of money and time, most companies are resorting to middleware now (buying the rights to use someone elses engine.)

Besides, they already have other more up to date engines available at Eidos. Bringing back an engine for nothing more than sentimental reasons is a bad idea, not to mention how difficult it was to create levels in the dark engine (last I heard.)

So long as they make the game play properly, I don't care which engine it's in.



I have the exact same problem. :(

Not just that, but your posts seem to be coming out in a distractingly large text size as well ;) :rasp:

Lady_Of_The_Vine
21st May 2009, 19:50
^

Haha. :D

***

Okay, it appears to be a permission issue. Those people who are all 'new players' are unable to create a poll, it seems. Sorry guys... best get posting more in the discussion threads and increase your status. ;)

GmanPro
21st May 2009, 21:26
It lets me post polls.

It must be only for certain, privileged forum members :p

Myth
22nd May 2009, 03:52
Good, now i know why i could not make a poll. Back on topic, the Dark Engine was a jewel and honestly I'd like it to return in a 2.0 version but that's impossible.

Frist of all, we can't get the source.. It's been lost AFAIK, and over at TTLG we would kill to get our hands on it.

Second of all, either redoing it or starting from scratch would be so labor intensive and expensive that the devs would not bother. A modern day engine that utilizes the current technology is much cheaper bought than made.

Third, if a Dark Engine 2.0 means revamping good ol' DE it's probably going to mean that we will not be getting the flashy graphics, and we all know that games today need flashy graphics to compete with the other releases. I mean, graphics don't matter to ME, but to the majority out there - yes they do. See the responses of the people that have not played T1 and T2 when they came out - they just can't swallow the graphics of the DE, their eyes mellowed out by games like Oblivion and Assassin's Creed (that do look awesome i admit)

1N54N3
22nd May 2009, 04:24
Meh, I've played games since before Wolfenstein 3D. I also played Thief 1-3. So to say I don't respect old games or that I'm some spoiled kid who only wants the latest graphics in a game is silly. I want the latest graphics because we can and because I'm not using a 33mhz computer anymore, not because I think great graphics make a great game. We all know that isn't true.

xDarknessFallsx
22nd May 2009, 05:38
A new engine is okay, as long as it can have crisp, non cartoony graphics and do shadows as well as the Dark engine... No over saturated shadows . No 'The Darkness' shadows either, as the game would feel claustrophobic when u can only see in the current room you are in. if you want to only see the room you are in, go play Doom 3 or all the other games out there that show you only one room at a time as a cheap way to save framerates. Someone posted screens of The Darkness here. On the surface it may seem cool, but I can almosot gurantee it would be detrimental to Thief gameplay.

Is the Dark Engine code really lost? Someone must have saved it on a CD or two back in the day? If Eidos happens to have it, i hope they give or sell it to the community some day.

huzi73
22nd May 2009, 15:57
^

Haha. :D

***

Okay, it appears to be a permission issue. Those people who are all 'new players' are unable to create a poll, it seems. Sorry guys... best get posting more in the discussion threads and increase your status. ;)

I've noticed that users who have less posts than me, but have been around for longer (June 2005) have a higher status than me?How does this work?How many posts do I need?(I mean i've been more active in 3 weeks than some dudes have been in 4 YEARS!)
Anyhow,why make dark engine 2,when you can have this:

http://paulmader.blogspot.com/2009/04/first-screenshots.html

Direlord
22nd May 2009, 16:05
i think the status is more how long you've been a member than how many posts you have.

A Dark Engine 2 would be great but building it from scratch will probably add years to the developement time. If that is the case i'd rather them modify a known and fully supported engine to speed things along.

DarthEnder
23rd May 2009, 08:31
I don't....think there's anything that the Dark engine did that can't be done better with current engines, although I'm not sure there's one engine that does it all.

I remember especially that the reason we didn't have rope arrows in T3 was the engine couldn't make them work. I remember playing Prince of Persia: Sands of Time and there are chains in that game with really excellent mechanics to them, but those are also fixed, not able to be shot all over a level. Maybe that's the hard part, putting an object with such complicated physics and making it able to be anchored all over the place by the player.


There's just so much awesome **** out now. Half-life 2 has the sweetest "pick crap up and throw it" physics. GTA4 and Force Unleashed have the awesome Euphoria engine that's pretty much killed ragdoll physics as far as I'm concerned. Doom 3 had awesome lighting.

If there's one engine that does all that, great. Otherwise, maybe they should try and cobble something together.

Espion
23rd May 2009, 09:04
I remember especially that the reason we didn't have rope arrows in T3 was the engine couldn't make them work. I remember playing Prince of Persia: Sands of Time and there are chains in that game with really excellent mechanics to them, but those are also fixed, not able to be shot all over a level. Maybe that's the hard part, putting an object with such complicated physics and making it able to be anchored all over the place by the player.

I imagine, and this is just a guess, that it's more to do with the player collision when they're on the rope. If you hook a rope arrow onto a beam near a wall and start swinging on it, what happens when you hit the wall, how does it affect your motion, direction, etc..? Collision is a real ***** to crack and when you put the player in situations when they're surrounded with potentially complex 3D objects (like a tree for example) on the fly then you create lots of problems for yourself. Even with simplified collision meshes, you still have to make it look right and I'd imagine passing through branches would look wrong.

Perhaps someone with a more codey background could offer some insight?

dnoeyen
23rd May 2009, 12:10
I don't really know that much about game engines, but I sure would like to wait a few extra years for a great engine to specifically fit the needs of thief 4 (dark engine 2?).

jermi
23rd May 2009, 17:47
I remember especially that the reason we didn't have rope arrows in T3 was the engine couldn't make them work.All they said was they couldn't make it work. Whether that was due to engine or gameplay issues or some other problems was not said. It could be due to frickin' global warming for all we know.

One of Havok's features is a rope object. It's pretty simple to set up, the endpoints can be anchored anywhere on static or dynamic objects, it collides properly with all the objects in the vicinity, etc.


GTA4 and Force Unleashed have the awesome Euphoria engine that's pretty much killed ragdoll physics as far as I'm concerned.I'm not sure what that means but both of those games use ragdolls (when the characters or AI are unconscious or dead.)

Myth
24th May 2009, 19:32
Hehe i imagine them roombrushing stairwells and little windows for proper sound propagation in Dromed.. hahah that would be funny to watch - the current devs trying to get the hang of Dromed :P

Durinda D'Bry
25th May 2009, 12:10
I think if they try to update DE (this is old, not scalable to modern hardware engine) or write something home-grown from scratch they'll just spend a time. There are many very successfull engines on market and there is no need to reinvent the wheel. Of course, they'll need to add many custom logic to make game with particular features. But hope they'll never waste a time to write their renderer as IS did for DS:)

Kyle2k
27th May 2009, 23:19
I posted somewhere that I really don't care about graphic engines.

..but I must confess: I LOVED the old DarkEngine. A new DarkEngine v. 2.0? wow...sounds VERY good...

Any modern game engine will work.. AS LONG IT INCLUDE UNDERWATER SECTIONS!!!!

Garrett2727
28th May 2009, 12:59
Well, Ill never forget that fantastic feeling of the dark engine, as Corvin25 mentioned in his first post, the engine's graphs was acceptable that time and the whole feeling was unforgettable, I already got a soundblaster card back then where the environment sounds worked like a charm (plus I must mention that a presentation video that came with that sound card showed its sound possibilities in TDP in a short video).
So, if they could make let's say a Dark Engine 2.0 that would fit of the today's needs, I said yes, otherwise I suggested to stay by an engine that is already alive some time (like the Unreal one, etc..) with some tweaking (like reduce the 'blue effect' as someone posted here..).

Lady_Of_The_Vine
28th May 2009, 15:50
Okay, update on creating polls.
If any members with high status are unable to see the poll option, or those with status 'new gamer' that require a poll created for them, please send a PM to @m ( http://forums.eidosgames.com/private.php?do=newpm&u=17) and help will be on its way. :)
Please make sure you link to thread that you want poll created and list the options you require.
If you are just reporting a problem, give as much detail as possible.