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Cybele
20th May 2009, 12:29
Even for the best thieves there comes a time when you end up killing someone. And that usually leaves behind a messy pool of blood.
So my idea is: whenever you kill somebody you'll leave behind bloody footprints or a little trail of blood that guard can follow.
Lets say you back stab a guard. You may wipe your dagger clean but you still may end up stepping in a pool of blood if you aren't careful and thus leave bloody footprints.
Think killing the guard from a distance with arrows/mines will solve your problem? Nope! A dead body will stay unnoticed for only so long. You need to hide it- pick it up and thus again get blood on yourself.
Ways to deal with the problem could be shooting water arrows at the body/pool of blood/in front of your feet if they are bloody (not into your feet please :p) or washing up in the kitchen/bathroom :p
Does blood smell? A sharp nosed guard could follow you that way, or guard dogs! Why aren't there any puppies?

esme
20th May 2009, 12:53
nice idea, but I'm not seeing Garrett the master thief being sloppy enough to step in a pool of blood and not notice, how about when he carries the body away so he can hide it the body drips a blood trail ?

you then have the choice of cleaning the trail with water arrows or leaving it

as for no puppies, it seems to be down to the difficulties of animating quadrupeds in the first two games, deadly shadows had cats so I guess you could scale it up and reskin and voice it to get a dog I'm not sure if it would move well

Espion
20th May 2009, 12:54
Even for the best thieves there comes a time when you end up killing someone.

Heh, nope... well, not unless you count the Trickster and Karrass... And the Hag I suppose :rolleyes:


And that usually leaves behind a messy pool of blood.
So my idea is: whenever you kill somebody you'll leave behind bloody footprints or a little trail of blood that guard can follow...
Ways to deal with the problem could be shooting water arrows at the body/pool of blood

I can't remember in Thief 3 but in Thief 1&2 you could use water arrows to wash away blood stains. I like the idea of leaving foot print trails from blood, or maybe mud if you're not careful, though trying to avoid mud might just get annoying... I don't know, it's something else to think about I guess.

Psychomorph
20th May 2009, 16:49
If you keep the dagger in the body it can eventually bleed much less, or not at all, so what if you can stab a guy, let the knife inside, grab the body and carry/drag it to a save place, then remove the dagger to move on. Chances for a "clean kill" are much higher, maybe.

There are various factors that create a bloody situation, a stab with a small dagger is less messy compared to a massive slash of a sword. Keeping the body lying for few minutes gives it time to lose lots of blood and spread it all over the carpet.

So... use a small weapon, stab, keep the tool inside, instantly grab the body and remove it from the scene... and you might get away as a winner in the situation.

Alex50
20th May 2009, 17:04
The Good idea, blood traces can bring the Guard to dead body. Come to use the water arrows. The Player will think - kill and spend the water arrows or deafen or avoid. And this looks realistic. Under hidden murder will be one small wound and bloods will little. In fighting by wounds will more and bloods too.

Smooogy
20th May 2009, 17:09
Garrett would kill sometimes IMO, but he wouldn't step in the pool of blood. XD If dripping blood was an introduction to the game, and it could be cool, then garrett would need a rag to clean his tracks.

It's not that bad of an idea considering how easily native americans can track their prey in the wild, a guard would notice a trail of blood as a rather odd sight. But of course, Mr. Garrett doesn't usually even need to kill if he waits long enough. It takes patience to ghost a level.

Cybele
20th May 2009, 17:36
Speaking of trail and track this can be extended a bit: if swimming get added or when it's raining or you just get wet somehow you would leave wet footprints behind for guard to track you down with. These could disappear (dry up) after some time.

Smooogy
20th May 2009, 18:02
Speaking of trail and track this can be extended a bit: if swimming get added or when it's raining or you just get wet somehow you would leave wet footprints behind for guard to track you down with. These could disappear (dry up) after some time.

oooo... I like that! :)

Hypevosa
20th May 2009, 20:02
Even for the best thieves there comes a time when you end up killing someone. And that usually leaves behind a messy pool of blood.
So my idea is: whenever you kill somebody you'll leave behind bloody footprints or a little trail of blood that guard can follow.
Lets say you back stab a guard. You may wipe your dagger clean but you still may end up stepping in a pool of blood if you aren't careful and thus leave bloody footprints.
Think killing the guard from a distance with arrows/mines will solve your problem? Nope! A dead body will stay unnoticed for only so long. You need to hide it- pick it up and thus again get blood on yourself.
Ways to deal with the problem could be shooting water arrows at the body/pool of blood/in front of your feet if they are bloody (not into your feet please :p) or washing up in the kitchen/bathroom :p
Does blood smell? A sharp nosed guard could follow you that way, or guard dogs! Why aren't there any puppies?

A guard's clothes would absorb most of the blood other than the initial bleeding, as well as the fact that once they're dead their heart isn't pumping. an arrow clogs any wound it makes meaning minimal blood to begin with. Yes a backstab probably results in alot of blood loss, but the player already has to clean up the body, and it's not like they can shoot themselves with a water arrow. It's a situation where you'd just be inconveniencing the player for no reason. Leave not killing to the harder difficulties allowing the player to choose their style of play.

And the idea of a GUARD smelling blood is absurd...

Petike the Taffer
20th May 2009, 22:33
And the idea of a GUARD smelling blood is absurd...

Unless he's a vampire ! :eek: :D :rolleyes:

Smooogy
21st May 2009, 12:40
Yeah I think smelling blood is a little overdone. That's not realistic either. Considering most of the guards are drunk anyway, their fine smelling would probably not be the greatest

Psychomorph
21st May 2009, 13:39
Maybe dogs can become a little uncalmed when they smell blood and the guards telling them to be silent or so.

Blue Sky
21st May 2009, 16:11
If Garrett leaves footprints, what sort of prints would he leave?

http://www.mtasafetyboots.co.uk/assets/images/footprints.jpg

I like the idea of Thi4f being sponsored by Niké. "Just Steal It"

huzi73
21st May 2009, 16:49
If Garrett leaves footprints, what sort of prints would he leave?

http://www.mtasafetyboots.co.uk/assets/images/footprints.jpg

I like the idea of Thi4f being sponsored by Niké. "Just Steal It"

I lol'd when I read this!But please,no sneaking socks,thats just plain dumb

Smooogy
21st May 2009, 17:27
That nike stuff is hillarious! XD

Mikkowl
23rd May 2009, 15:38
Yes, if killing or blood letting is involved, do make it realistic enough to make it messy and more difficult to hide.

Albeit I think that the ethos of the Thief series is "Don't kill anyone"; and that it should be enforced by the rules of the game, like hard mode in the originals.

NathanGPLC
23rd May 2009, 17:34
Blood has a very distinctive smell, and people with chest and head/neck wounds bleed a LOT. More than enough for a human to smell from nearby; that said, I don't think implementing 'realistic' levels of blood splatter and the ability to track by scent are necessary parts of the game.

Of course, if the devs want to make scent a more integral part of the game, that would be a step I approved of if done fully:

If some areas are guarded by dogs; the watch use tracking dogs; some monsters can detect/track by scent; killing (even silently) releases blood and sweat, making it easier for Garrett to be detected; swimming neutralizes scent trails; Garrett can use certain items to confound trackers (aniseed oil or other strongly-scented oils and gasses can be used to throw off trackers, and even temporarily disable nose-reliant creatures the same way flashbombs hit sight-reliant).

If all those (and probably other) requirements were met, then THAT would be an excellent example of using new technology to improve an old series by still remaining within the gameplay's unique style. Now master thieves would have to worry about being seen, heard, AND smelled. And if they fail, they get tasted by the Haunts :D

But if there's just one scent-gimmick in the game, and that's all it is, I would be less inclined to praise that, as unnecessary gameplay complications ala quicktime events.

Blessed be,
~Nathan

Mikkowl
23rd May 2009, 17:36
Awesome additions of ideas there, Nathan. I could only dream of such awesomeness in my favourite sneaksie games.

NathanGPLC
23rd May 2009, 20:28
Thanks, Mikkowl; game design is a trade of mine. Not computer games, mind, but tabletop RPGs; but many of the same principles apply:

1. What rules would I add to make this game more awesome?
2. What rules would just screw up gameplay and make the players annoyed?

:D

Blessed be,
~Nathan