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View Full Version : Regenerating Ammo !!



ZippyDSMlee
19th May 2009, 20:49
Not in DX3 but as a game play mechanic general, think of this as a intellectual poll.


The next generation of gamers don't want to backtrack in search of ammo. It breaks up the flow of the action. And it's soooo unrealistic that there would just be ammo lying around everywhere to pick up anyway
When I read the above I was shocked stun and mad..then someone elsewhere brought up Metroid Prime and Mass effect..and then I thought it did work within the confines of those games so why can't it work in "normal" FPSs.

The mechanics are simple a basic weapon jams 5 out of 10 shots pausing steady rates of fire,unles you shoot very slow and methodicly to bypass the heat/jam issue that along with clip loading and a "natural" cover system(crotch/lean). Better weapons would jam 3 out of 10 and the best 2 or 1 out of 10.

That with the use of relatively easy to find pick ups of explosive type weapons (say 1 out of every 10 bad guys/thigns killed has some grenades or what not) would complete the mechanics.

It could work for a long and varied game like MP with the mod system on ME its not bad but if try and expand it outside of the filed of heavy adventure games could it do reasonably well if done right or is it a "trendmare" waiting to stalk and steal whats left of our bwains?

To the forum and its wary readers I give this query to. :confused:

Irate_Iguana
19th May 2009, 21:02
In a normal FPS it can work. Resource management is pretty irrelevant in most of those games apart from health management. Even that is being broken apart. The bullet collection doesn't introduce a new level of difficulty. Who really ran out of bullets for their favorite weapon for long in a typical FPS?

Reloading and bullet management is mostly done to have a mechanic that stops players from shooting constantly. In that capacity it adds a challenge to combat. An overheat mechanic can take the place of reloading.

It wouldn't break the flow of something like a sci-fi shooter. It would look odd in a current setting shooter since no weapon has a regenerating ammo supply. We are accustomed to seeing weapons being reloaded so we expect that.

SquidPirate
19th May 2009, 21:08
Personally I have rarely had a problem conserving ammo. Having to scrounge a bit adds not only realism, but also encourages players to be a bit more involved and responsible in what they do.

ZippyDSMlee
19th May 2009, 21:16
In a normal FPS it can work. Resource management is pretty irrelevant in most of those games apart from health management. Even that is being broken apart. The bullet collection doesn't introduce a new level of difficulty. Who really ran out of bullets for their favorite weapon for long in a typical FPS?

Reloading and bullet management is mostly done to have a mechanic that stops players from shooting constantly. In that capacity it adds a challenge to combat. An overheat mechanic can take the place of reloading.

It wouldn't break the flow of something like a sci-fi shooter. It would look odd in a current setting shooter since no weapon has a regenerating ammo supply. We are accustomed to seeing weapons being reloaded so we expect that.
Mind you by regenerating I mean no ammo supply, you can use reloaing,refire rate jams and other timing issues to change the flow of the game,by adding 2 or 3 as many weapons that slowly evolve with a few well hidden ones in better level layouts you can put it into any shooter but a SIM.

My fav weapons tend to run out of ammo fast and I am forced to to hop around weapon wise this is double edged as it makes you try different weapons more frequently than you would if you could ignore ammo issues.


Personally I have rarely had a problem conserving ammo. Having to scrounge a bit adds not only realism, but also encourages players to be a bit more involved and responsible in what they do.

It also gets them to try out different weapons more I can be said to be lazy as in sicking to the stuff I like in a game and avoiding the rest if I can. But at the same time if done correctly IEinf ammo but more weapons to chose from and a faster pace of relaoding/refire/less jams ect it could be done in almost any game type.

And inf ammo would be to everything but most explosives, like metroid and ME.

Irate_Iguana
19th May 2009, 21:21
This is double edged as it makes you try different weapons more frequently than you would if you could ignore ammo issues.

Various options exist to overcome that situation. Easy fixes include introducing more realism. There is a reason room clearing isn't done with a full length rifle. This could be adapted to the game. Another fix is introducing logical immunities in the opponents.

ZippyDSMlee
19th May 2009, 21:26
Various options exist to overcome that situation. Easy fixes include introducing more realism. There is a reason room clearing isn't done with a full length rifle. This could be adapted to the game. Another fix is introducing logical immunities in the opponents.

True but unlike a a set of 6 different ammo maxs and variables of ammo to weapon and what style the player uses you have more random chances for a player to accidentally find out thigns about a weapon they are forced to use via ammo dependency. I have always found such discoverivers far more entertaining than stuff meticulously planed out by the dev team.

But perhaps such planning is not without its own rewards as you push out random variables more and more you can have more control on the flow of the game lessening weak spots in it.

Irate_Iguana
19th May 2009, 21:34
True but unlike a a set of 6 different ammo maxs and variables of ammo to weapon and what style the player uses you have more random chances for a player to accidentally find out thigns about a weapon they are forced to use via ammo dependency. I have always found such discoverivers far more entertaining than stuff meticulously planed out by the dev team.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that it is a great idea and we must remove the old system immediately. I'm just comment on the possibility of adding in a regen ammo system to a standard FPS.

Statement: This refers only to FPS games. Not to the FPS-RPG genre of Deus Ex.
Warning: Attempting to introduce this mechanic in DX3 will lead to fan back lash and loss of sales.

GmanPro
19th May 2009, 21:40
Regenerating supplies is just plain dumb imo

ZippyDSMlee
19th May 2009, 21:40
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that it is a great idea and we must remove the old system immediately. I'm just comment on the possibility of adding in a regen ammo system to a standard FPS.

Statement: This refers only to FPS games. Not to the FPS-RPG genre of Deus Ex.
Warning: Attempting to introduce this mechanic in DX3 will lead to fan back lash and loss of sales.

Very true I merely trying to run with all the thoughts my fuzzy pea brain can muster.

There is merit to it, if a game is not dependent on a survival theme as one of the main aspects of its style (say Bioshock is a action shooter with adventure elements inf ammo would work because survival is not even questioned) however a deeper game something more adventure based or realistic that could truly utilize the feelings that "oh sht out of ammo!!!!111" gives to a game.

I would say a adventure title that focus on action say ME,Metroid,Deadspace, Bioshock,HL2 anything with big level roaming levels could use inf ammo and multi weapons and mods.

But a deeper more meticulous game would be better suited to use ammo.

Sean D
19th May 2009, 21:59
Warning: Attempting to introduce this mechanic in DX3 will lead to fan back lash and loss of sales.
Make stickers, immediately.


http://www.ljplus.ru/img4/s/o/soulmaster/dx3.JPG

ZippyDSMlee
19th May 2009, 22:01
make stickers, immediately.


http://www.ljplus.ru/img4/s/o/soulmaster/dx3.jpg

win! Lol

FrankCSIS
19th May 2009, 23:27
I'm a little worried about the player being tributary to the preset overheating or jamming calculus. Having unlimited ammo with a jamming device forces me to maintain a certain rhythm of fire, whereas with a limited supply of bullets I can still spend them the way I see fit, and live with the consequences. I always figured accuracy lost was acceptable, and made sense, but even that mechanic didn't flat out prevent me from emptying a clip.

There's a certain charm to going absolutely berserk and shooting like a madman in a desperate situation, something I can't do with with an overheating system. It actually quite annoyed me in Mass Effect. I don't mind arbitrary jamming occurrences with cheap guns, for instance, but it would get quickly annoying for a reliable weapon to stop functioning because of my chosen rate of fire.

I'll recognise though that jamming can add a certain level of stress, similar to the one produced by limited ammo. It's just that between a self-managed mechanic and one that is forced upon me, I'll always side with the choice.

ZippyDSMlee
20th May 2009, 06:45
I'm a little worried about the player being tributary to the preset overheating or jamming calculus. Having unlimited ammo with a jamming device forces me to maintain a certain rhythm of fire, whereas with a limited supply of bullets I can still spend them the way I see fit, and live with the consequences. I always figured accuracy lost was acceptable, and made sense, but even that mechanic didn't flat out prevent me from emptying a clip.

There's a certain charm to going absolutely berserk and shooting like a madman in a desperate situation, something I can't do with with an overheating system. It actually quite annoyed me in Mass Effect. I don't mind arbitrary jamming occurrences with cheap guns, for instance, but it would get quickly annoying for a reliable weapon to stop functioning because of my chosen rate of fire.

I'll recognise though that jamming can add a certain level of stress, similar to the one produced by limited ammo. It's just that between a self-managed mechanic and one that is forced upon me, I'll always side with the choice.

Well there are ways to trade it off POWER or damage per shot and unjamed fire time, basic weapons are separated into moderate damage with jamming or light damage with low jam rates and then a rare weapon of that class would have moderate damage low jam rates but a small clip, add in finer tweaking where say reload takes 4 secs with it jamming up for a 2 seconds every 3 out of ten shots for the moderate damage/jam there are ways to balance it out.

But like health regeneration is it needed, I would have to say no but as a basis's of a mechanic for a new/different game not a genre or trend but just trying to to take an idea and hammering out and making a decent little game out of it.

Then again I am saint or demon enough to try and turn a honda car commercial into a game (http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/writing-and-wutbits/g-w-p/gritty-water/)....

WhatsHisFace
21st May 2009, 01:14
There are a few popular FPS games that have one really weak gun that never runs out of ammo.

AaronJ
21st May 2009, 01:46
The industry as a whole hasn't grown up that much.

Ninjerk
21st May 2009, 02:31
Go play Jedi Knight on Hard (my most recent old-school corridor shooter). Having limited resources creates tension.

ZippyDSMlee
21st May 2009, 02:41
Go play Jedi Knight on Hard (my most recent old-school corridor shooter). Having limited resources creates tension.

JK2 is not a corridor shooter at least not as bad as the others then again if I can call halo 2-3 the modern equivalent of a "corridor shooter" then JK2 pretty much fits the bill...even if it is better. :P

Games that I would call modern Corridor shooters are Jericho,DOOM 3,Quake 4,Haze,Turok most WWX FPSs(MOH,COD,ect)

HL2 and fear are on the knifes edge.

Call of cuthullu, Bioshock,Dark Messiah offer adventure themed level layouts while FO3 offers alot frigging more but at the cost of equipment.

GmanPro
21st May 2009, 04:07
Dark Forces 2: Jedi Knight, had a bunch of open levels. Really big environments. Jedi Knight 2 also, but not as much.

Dark Forces on the other hand was more of a corridor shooter

ZippyDSMlee
21st May 2009, 04:10
Dark Forces 2: Jedi Knight, had a bunch of open levels. Really big environments. Jedi Knight 2 also, but not as much.

Dark Forces on the other hand was more of a corridor shooter

It was as open as doom was for the most part, I still recall getting lost in it :P ,Jedi Knight was less mazey..but not by much.