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Espion
18th May 2009, 09:57
Hey guys n gals,

I don't think this has been discussed in detail yet.

With the leaps and bounds made in technology modern games have opened up more advanced/interesting ways of getting around a level. I've already mentioned this before so some of you probably know where I'm going with this but, before I get into where I think Thief should go to in this regard, let's look out how it already works in Thief 1&2.

Following is a simple list of what Garrett is currently capable of and some assumptions/comments I'm making based off these abilities:


Garrett can run faster than guards - Quick on his feet means he's very athletic, especially since he's carrying all that equipment and loot. Now we could say that due to all the elemental magic his equipment doesn't weigh very much but, even if it's not taken into account with a specific gameplay mechanic (probably for the best), we know gold is heavy so his ability to run with it does imply that he's in damn good shape.
Garrett can climb up opjects that are taller than him - Thief was, to my knowledge, one of the first games to do this and it's one of the reasons I loved it. Before Thief most games would have specifically designed sections that you couldn't advance through because one section of floor was higher than your maximum jump height. It made no sense and it always felt like forced gameplay when I had to take the scenic route as a result.
If Garrett misses a platform he's jumping to, he can catch on to the edge and pull himself up - Again, the ability to climb things, alluding to great upper body strength and agility.
Garrett can knock an enemy unconscious whilst leaping through the air - Because he's F-ing awesome! (Whilst Airbourne!)


From these points we can determine that Garrett is fast moving and agile. The only reason he would break his pace narratively is if there was a guard blocking his way. The only reason he'd break his pace technically is because the game technology wasn't capable of providing fluid solutions to all obstacles... That said, when I decided to charge through a part of a level it was rare that I did break pace.

If you agree with that, then hopefully you'll agree that the logical evolution of the original movement in Thief can be found in Mirror's Edge, the first person, parkour, frustratingly-more-action-than-stealth-game (even though in practically every cutscene Faye - the protagonist - was being stealthy) released earlier this year.

Disclaimer: I am NOT suggesting that Garrett be able to perform flying kicks, or disarm guards with slow-mo kung fu moves!

I just want to make it clear now that I'm talking about the movement and not the combat from the game... Besides, the combat in ME was crap and whilst I was performing those disarm moves the other half dozen guards were shooting me... With machine guns... FFS :mad2:

If you look at the range of mobility Faye has it's very similar to the moves Garrett has, only linked together fluidly and intuitively. She also has a few extra moves that are well within the scope of what Garrett can do.


She can do everything Garrett can do
She can wall run vertically and horizontally - An old acrobatics trick for getting extra height/distance.
She can kick of walls for extra height - Again, an ancient technique used for reaching higher platforms.
She can vault/leap over tall objects
She can slide under low objects
She can leap from high platforms and land into a roll
She can leap or drop onto enemies - If this were to be incorporated it wouldn't be a stealth move as it would be bloody noisy. More of a "oh crap I'm being chased and that guy is in the way" move.
She can initiate an attack whilst kicking off a wall - Whilst airbourne! he can already do it whilst jumping so why couldn't Garrett blackjack someone whilst kicking off a wall?


I really can't see why any of these moves would be beyond Garrett's abilities. Most of them simply couldn't have been done at the time with the tech, but all of them are within the capabilities of our favourite Master Thief.

As modern/extreme as these moves may come across, people have been performing them for a long time (Shaolin, Chinese Opera and Indian acrobats to name a few). They're possibly a bit extreme in ME in how far/long she can perform the moves but that's besides the point as it's something that would be fine tuned for Thief in testing (I'd hope).

So long as the game doesn't kick into rock music everytime Garrett starts moving, fighting or whatever, I think he can be given this much more flexible range of abilities and still remain in character.

Thanks for reading this far :)

~E

Caranfin
18th May 2009, 13:45
I agree that Garrett's mobility could be increased a bit without straying too far from proper Thief gameplay and his character, but EM should be really careful about it if they decide to implement some sort of a system for parkour-like movement. I'd rather not see one at all than have the gameplay not feel like Thief. Garrett should definitely not do huge leaps over rooftops and wallrun-jump-another wallrun-jump-climb combo type things like in Mirror's Edge.




She can wall run vertically and horizontally - An old acrobatics trick for getting extra height/distance.
She can kick of walls for extra height - Again, an ancient technique used for reaching higher platforms.


Yes, kicking off from a wall can increase the height or, somewhat, the lenght of your jump. I don't think more than one step does however not give you any more height or lenght than one, and I can't see Garrett running along a wall horizontally or vertically. One step in order to reach a high ledge or window might work, in my opinion, but not more than that.




She can vault/leap over tall objects
She can slide under low objects
She can leap from high platforms and land into a roll


Vaulting and jumping and proper landings from high drops might also be made to work if done in a very minimalistic style. There's also the controls to consider: personally I hated the amount of context sensitivity in Mirror's Edge. (Why not have the discussion about the controls in this same thread, by the way?) Sliding I'm not at all keen on, though. I found it's use in Mirror's Edge a bit odd, even on the slipperier surfaces where the friction might not stop you immediately. I can't see it work at all on most of the surfaces in Thief.




She can leap or drop onto enemies - If this were to be incorporated it wouldn't be a stealth move as it would be bloody noisy. More of a "oh crap I'm being chased and that guy is in the way" move.
She can initiate an attack whilst kicking off a wall - Whilst airbourne! he can already do it whilst jumping so why couldn't Garrett blackjack someone whilst kicking off a wall?


Most of these would go into the "unreasonable kung-fu stuff" category for me. Perhaps dropping onto enemies from a reasonably high place could knock them out if they aren't alert, but jumping from a ledge onto a a guard that sees you is a definite no for me. It doesn't fit the style of gameplay Thief is going for, and there's suspension of disbelief to consider. What would stop the guard from simply side-stepping the flying thief and skewering him with his sword?

Oh and the main character in Mirror's Edge is Faith, not Faye.

Espion
18th May 2009, 14:54
Garrett should definitely not do huge leaps over rooftops and wallrun-jump-another wallrun-jump-climb combo type things like in Mirror's Edge.

Yeah, I actually agree with you there. I forgot to emphasise it a bit more but Thief would need to be more subdued than ME. I really don't want people thinking I want Thief to share the style of ME. Just the range of movement.


(Why not have the discussion about the controls in this same thread, by the way?)

Lol, have you seen the size of both the posts? I'm worried the massive block of text will put people off reading (and therefore discussing) it. I figured they were different enough subjects to separate despite the slight crossover.


Sliding I'm not at all keen on, though. I found it's use in Mirror's Edge a bit odd, even on the slipperier surfaces where the friction might not stop you immediately. I can't see it work at all on most of the surfaces in Thief.

A fair point... Though in this case style might override realism? Either way, a roll type move would still allow the ability to move under low objects quickly which is the goal... That would be far more mobile. I guess it would just depend how people feel about the concept of a more fluid movement system.


Most of these would go into the "unreasonable kung-fu stuff" category for me.

I don't think dropping on someone is too far into kung-fu realms (though I'm aware that realistically it's a very impractical move). Perhaps it could be combined with the an attack so you blackjack them as you land on them, something you can pretty much already do if there's enough space. This way it would provide an alternate method of removing some out of the way guards in tight corners.

As for leaping off a wall to attack, I wasn't suggesting so much that you leap off and land on someone like you do in ME. More that you can blackjack someone as you leap off the wall. Much the same as you can blackjack someone when you jump normally. The last thing I want to see is Garret drop-kicking or round-housing guards.


Oh and the main character in Mirror's Edge is Faith, not Faye.

You're absolutely right :) I've been scratching my head for the last half hour trying to figure out who Faye was and I realise I got Faith's name mixed up with the character Faye from Questionable Content :D I'm not sure how I got them mixed up...

Ikana
27th Aug 2009, 02:43
I agree that Garrett's mobility could be increased a bit without straying too far from proper Thief gameplay and his character, but EM should be really careful about it if they decide to implement some sort of a system for parkour-like movement. I'd rather not see one at all than have the gameplay not feel like Thief. Garrett should definitely not do huge leaps over rooftops and wallrun-jump-another wallrun-jump-climb combo type things like in Mirror's Edge.


Yes, kicking off from a wall can increase the height or, somewhat, the lenght of your jump. I don't think more than one step does however not give you any more height or lenght than one, and I can't see Garrett running along a wall horizontally or vertically. One step in order to reach a high ledge or window might work, in my opinion, but not more than that.


Vaulting and jumping and proper landings from high drops might also be made to work if done in a very minimalistic style. There's also the controls to consider: personally I hated the amount of context sensitivity in Mirror's Edge. (Why not have the discussion about the controls in this same thread, by the way?) Sliding I'm not at all keen on, though. I found it's use in Mirror's Edge a bit odd, even on the slipperier surfaces where the friction might not stop you immediately. I can't see it work at all on most of the surfaces in Thief.


Most of these would go into the "unreasonable kung-fu stuff" category for me. Perhaps dropping onto enemies from a reasonably high place could knock them out if they aren't alert, but jumping from a ledge onto a a guard that sees you is a definite no for me. It doesn't fit the style of gameplay Thief is going for, and there's suspension of disbelief to consider. What would stop the guard from simply side-stepping the flying thief and skewering him with his sword?

Oh and the main character in Mirror's Edge is Faith, not Faye.


I agree, while I recognize Garretts ability to do these things, the game shouldn't have as much realism packed into it as possible. I would hate to see sly, cynical world weary Garrett running on walls and jumping through hoops.

He seems more like a move slow and stay calm type over the dash through a mansion with a soft pitter patter of soft custom tailored boots, snatching everything up and then jumping out a window and sliding down a banner..

It seems Garrett would go through slowly half crouched. and if caught, run until the line of sight is broken, and hide until the alarm has passed..

Speaking of this, I hope guards have the A.I in T4 to be able to not go back to their normal routines.. Maybe stop searching, but now relight doused flames, wake up sleeping people, and relock the doors and search for stolen possessions..

But that's for another thread.. somewhere..

Secondary
27th Aug 2009, 02:56
well, as i attempted to broach in another thread, Garret could do with some new movement mechanics, take a book out of parkour or something. the problem is making moving around too easy. if Garrett could sling around buildings like a ninja or the guy from assassins creed it would be TOO easy to get the highground, TOO easy to escape guards and so on and so forth. Garrett can move like a master thief but just that, a thief, not a gymnast.
dont get me wrong its a good point you have, the technology available gives us a great opportunity to make climbing, jumping, sprinting more executable ingame...lets just make sure we dont get so intoxicated by the notion that we ruin the game

Davehall380
27th Aug 2009, 11:23
One of the great things about TDP and TMA was that although Garrett had an edge over the guards (faster, able to climb, use rope arrows etc), the player was never in a position where he could escape to easily (unlike TDS with the much disputed climbing gloves). The player was forced to hide when making a mistake, and oppurtunites to mantle onto ledges to get away from danger wasn't overpaced - you always felt that someone might be able to nip you with a sword or arrow as you made your escape.

If the player becomes to lithe, with many different movement options, it may inbalance the game. Now, ill make myself clear on this, im all for the motion of greater movement - the one area where im not to conservative. This could be balanced out by making guards able to climb ladders, the less weighed down (e.g chainmail) to maybe chase up a rope (would be great to take the arrow out and let a stream of guards break their legs).

What im essentailly saying is that if Garrett becomes more agile/lithe etc, then the guards will need to be as well.

mrmooneyface
17th Oct 2010, 00:17
Now I've only given thief 3 about 5-6 hours of gameplay but there are serious issues regarding control of movement in this game. Strafing is clumsy and slow - I do not feel like I am in control of a nimble master thief. Instead it feels more like I am controlling a muscle bound gun toting thug. And my pet hate, and a source of RSI at the moment, is having to hold down an extra key in order to creep, which you have to do about 50% of a the game.

And so this got me thinking about the issues surrounding the control of Garrett's speed. How should it be done? I think the only way to please people on this issue is to provide as many options as possible. So those that like holding down an extra key to move slowly can do so. Others might prefer not to hold down a key and would prefer to toggle different speed modes (similar to crouching). What I would love to see is that you can control your speed with the mouse wheel. That way you can easily adjust speed without fumbling with the multitude of buttons and options that might be on offer. I think putting a speed controller on the mouse wheel makes more sense because, whereas items or weapons are sometimes needed in certain situations (and can be readily selected from the number keys), speed always needs to be constantly adjusted depending on how the situation changes. Anyway it just needs to be an option. If people prefer to select objects with the mouse wheel then good luck to them.

What would be really cool is if there was a special edition Thief 4 keyboard, which, at least for the movement keys, had pressure sensors so that you could control your speed depending on how much pressure you placed on each of the keys! That would be awesome.

Hypevosa
17th Oct 2010, 02:18
I think we're forgetting that in mirror's edge faith is completely unencumbered - she's pretty much just wearing normal clothing. Garrett isn't in that situation - he's got all his equipment to worry about, weapons, armor, gadgets, etc. and then he's got all the loot he has to carry around, and while I'm all against a system that takes all that into account by penalizing the player as they pick stuff up, I'm willing to let it be why we can't do extreme acrobatics. That and I don't think Garrett would consider taking the risk. Why die trying some stupid stunt? Life is dangerous enough as is.

Keeper_Riff
18th Oct 2010, 06:54
And so this got me thinking about the issues surrounding the control of Garrett's speed. How should it be done? I think the only way to please people on this issue is to provide as many options as possible.I think TDS did it just right. You can choose a multiplier for a movement key and another multiplier for speed modifier. They are all stored in Your_Documents\SaveGames\User Options\options.ini. I did it this way:

S=MoveForwardBackward 0.500000
W=MoveForwardBackward 1.000000
X=MoveForwardBackward -1.000000

Shift is a modifier 0.5, Ctrl is 0.3.

If you prefer to set all movement to "walk" by default, change all movement keys to 0.5 and change the walk modifier to 1:

WalkMultiplier=1.0

ADD:
Oh, I don't remember if there's a tunable deadzone for all joystick axles, but in modern games it's a must.

Tryst
19th Oct 2010, 08:07
I think we're forgetting that in mirror's edge faith is completely unencumbered - she's pretty much just wearing normal clothing. Garrett isn't in that situation - he's got all his equipment to worry about, weapons, armor, gadgets, etc. and then he's got all the loot he has to carry around, and while I'm all against a system that takes all that into account by penalizing the player as they pick stuff up, I'm willing to let it be why we can't do extreme acrobatics. That and I don't think Garrett would consider taking the risk. Why die trying some stupid stunt? Life is dangerous enough as is.
I was thinking the same as I read the OP. I somehow can't imagine Garrett with a bow, sword and other equipment, not to mention the huge bag of stolen goodies doing rolls to land after a jump. He would either skewer himself on his equipment or knock himself unconscious with his loot.

Stealth is the main part of this game, that means slow, quiet and thoughtful progress. A fast action movement would not suit Garretts style because it would be noisy and allow no room for planning.

As far as flying kicks and acrobatic combat goes, again Garrett is weighed down and while he can still outrun a guard, I doubt his strength would extend to wall rebound kicks etc. He's strong but not superman by any stretch of the imagination.

Nate
21st Oct 2010, 03:42
I have to agree with Tryst here! No flashy jump rolls and somersaults for Garrett please.

I have enough trouble dealing with how much stuff/loot/equipment he carries as it is....don't need to rub it in!

Caranfin
21st Oct 2010, 13:40
Why do people constantly assume that "expanding the range of movement", and even "parkour" automatically means including huge, fast movement? I see no reason not to give the player more possibilities for negotiating the environment, without straying into the flashy territory.


For example:

Garrett can already mount ledges, even after a jump. I would welcome the possibility of not instantly climbing onto the ledge and staying to hang onto the wall, maybe peeking over it to see what's on the other side, and then moving sideways on the wall to climb over it in a more suitable place. I'd also say it wouldn't be too much of a stretch for Garrett to take a short sprint and kick from a wall to reach ledges that are a bit higher than his normal jumping height, if there were clear negative properties for it. Like a horrible amount of noise.

Garrett can already jump over obstacles. Why not vault over them? There are several reasons why this would be preferrable for a thief (keeps you lower and allows you to control the movement better than just jumping, resulting in less noise and a smaller silhouette), and it's not like a vault has to be done fast. A slow vault would be more akin to just using your hands for balance and stepping over the obstacle fluidly. Perhaps not a very good explanation, I might try to take a video to illustrate this point at some point during the weekend.

I would also welcome a way to properly break your fall after a drop to reduce the noise and damage you take. Thinking about it now, I also don't think a roll would be appropriate for Thief. If only because it would be hell for your back to roll on cobblestones. But at least something like crouching when you hit a ground would be good in my opinion.

Tryst
21st Oct 2010, 14:23
Garrett can already mount ledges, even after a jump. I would welcome the possibility of not instantly climbing onto the ledge and staying to hang onto the wall, maybe peeking over it to see what's on the other side, and then moving sideways on the wall to climb over it in a more suitable place. I'd also say it wouldn't be too much of a stretch for Garrett to take a short sprint and kick from a wall to reach ledges that are a bit higher than his normal jumping height, if there were clear negative properties for it. Like a horrible amount of noise.
I have done this myself in real life and it does make a considerable amount of noise. A thief trying to stay quiet and undetected would never attempt anything that would make such a racket.


Garrett can already jump over obstacles. Why not vault over them? There are several reasons why this would be preferrable for a thief (keeps you lower and allows you to control the movement better than just jumping, resulting in less noise and a smaller silhouette), and it's not like a vault has to be done fast. A slow vault would be more akin to just using your hands for balance and stepping over the obstacle fluidly. Perhaps not a very good explanation, I might try to take a video to illustrate this point at some point during the weekend.
Your description was suitable enough for me to understand. While I would not mind so much, it would have to be a seperate control rather than an automatic move. This leaves room for mistakes otherwise the game would almost be playing itself.


I would also welcome a way to properly break your fall after a drop to reduce the noise and damage you take. Thinking about it now, I also don't think a roll would be appropriate for Thief. If only because it would be hell for your back to roll on cobblestones. But at least something like crouching when you hit a ground would be good in my opinion.
Not so bad but again, a seperate control to allow mistakes to be made.

We don't want the game to be automated because there would really be no point in playing it. Having said that, making each move a seperate control, it begins to get cumbersome and either a good memory for what key does what function or 20 fingers are going to be necessary to play it. It then excludes console players who have a limited number of controls available, unless you start the old X,X,D, combo move system. I've played games like that before and most of them are sitting on the shelf and have been since about half an hour after playing for the first time. The idea is notoriously hard even for a seasoned console player but someone with less dexterity in their fingers doesn't stand a chance.

Ultimately, if it was done properly and in keeping with the stealth genre, it's not such a bad idea. However the problem lies in its implementation and the resulting load on the player. I have played flight simulators and it has sometimes taken me a week just to memorise all the controls well enough to avoid crashing. If the controls become overly complex, players will often boycott the game which is why most FPS games are very simple as far as controls go.

Caranfin
21st Oct 2010, 14:57
I have done this myself in real life and it does make a considerable amount of noise. A thief trying to stay quiet and undetected would never attempt anything that would make such a racket.
Jumping over a gap to grab onto the top of a wall already makes a huge racket, and you can already do that in Thief. I find the noise of moving on the wall to be neglible in relation to that. And yes, I also have done this in real life.


While I would not mind so much, it would have to be a seperate control rather than an automatic move. This leaves room for mistakes otherwise the game would almost be playing itself.
Yes, I agree on that completely. I have a deep hatred for automated movement, and would be happy if I never had to touch a game with Assassin's Creed-esque "hold down a couple of buttons and a direction"-movement.

The controls becoming too complex is a possible issue, that's true, but I don't think it would be too hard to implement naturally.

Landing after a jump could well just be done by pressing the crouch-button in time with hitting the ground. This wouldn't introduce a new button at all, and is already used in lots of games. Even the new Halo does this. Vaulting would of course have to be separated from jumping and mantling, which is the harder issue. I believe it could be done, though. Like perhaps keeping a jump as a single press of the jump-button, and mantling as a hold-down, then introducing the vault as a double-press? Hanging onto a wall after a jump could be done by just holding jump down, peeking over it would be handled by the "move forward"-button, and finally climbing over it by "run forward".

These are, of course, just possibilities I came up with on the spot. They would have to be tested, but I hope they illustrate that it would be possible to include movement like this without too much complexity or automation.

Keeper_Riff
21st Oct 2010, 18:09
I would welcome the possibility of not instantly climbing onto the ledge and staying to hang onto the wall, maybe peeking over it to see what's on the other side, and then moving sideways on the wall to climb over it in a more suitable place. Already done in TDS, AFAIR. At least for walls where climbing gloves can be applied.

Caranfin
22nd Oct 2010, 00:09
You know, I had totally forgotten about the climbing gloves. I only played TDS through once. They aren't quite what I had in mind, anyway. The mechanics don't seem to have anything to do with mantling and only work on certain types of walls.

NoxNoctum
11th Mar 2013, 16:53
AC2, which I think is considered one of the best of the series, bored me out of my mind. It looks great, but I found the gameplay very dull, in that it provided almost no challenge.

I won't go bonkers if there's a teeny bit more combat in this new game, but I just hope that it's more interesting than that of Assassin's Creed, and I hope Garrett isn't some super powered action hero. I was disappointed hearing about Garrett being able to take on 4 guards.

My main concern is that the classic exploring big environments of the thief series will turn into something similar to AC's free running on rooftops. Although it looks fantastic, I found that it got very boring very quickly since it requires little finesse and is basically mostly automatic with the player just controlling the direction of the run.

A far cry from having to carefully and slowly navigate a thin strip of pipe while carefully listening to guard footsteps.

Assassin's Creed 2 ranks as possibly my blandest gaming experience ever so I really hope this game steers as clear as possible away from it.

I think Demon's Souls and Dark Souls success are proof that a hardcore gaming experience can sell well. I think many gamers like me are tired of the "interactive movie" trend and would respond well to a difficult, but fair challenge. I hope this game provides that.

xDarknessFallsx
11th Mar 2013, 19:57
I agree about AC; and I've played some of both AC1 and AC3. In AC3, I can't help but shake my head and ask what is going on with games when you lay down bait in the forest and animals all the sudden spawn and make a bee-line for your bait. So unrealistic; so gamey to me.

Anyways, where GameInformer talks about Garrett going to the House of Blossoms (barreling over the city skyline, diving from roof to roof until he slides down to the streeet level, bounding over merchant tables and under wagons, then dives through the window of a nearby building), it worries me that the game 'might' have a mechanic like AC where you hold 'X' and push directions and the game does the rest for you. The way that description is written, it is hard to imagine a slow and careful Thief. I have cautious optimism it won't be like that and we'll instead be in full control, as in games made a few years ago.

Nephthys
11th Mar 2013, 21:13
It Can't be said enough how successful Dishonored was for not having mechanics like that. The takedowns were scripted, sure, but for the most part there was no scripted scenes as you went through the world.

If the new Thief game is going to take from something, then Dishonored's simplicity in that regard should be taken over Assassin's Creed's more scripted, cinematic gameplay.

The chicken and the egg argument for Thief and Dishonored is for another thread.

The Devil
11th Mar 2013, 22:15
It Can't be said enough how successful Dishonored was for not having mechanics like that. The takedowns were scripted, sure, but for the most part there was no scripted scenes as you went through the world.

If the new Thief game is going to take from something, then Dishonored's simplicity in that regard should be taken over Assassin's Creed's more scripted, cinematic gameplay.

Exactly! And I think the same should apply to combat as well. That is partly why I am worried about Focus.

Platinumoxicity
11th Mar 2013, 22:36
Assassin's Creed's more scripted, cinematic gameplay

Entirely scripted cinematic gameplay actually. -Well, if you're pressing w, walking on a wide open street whilst keeping a respectable distance to all level geometry, then the game is dynamic. As soon as you have to do anything other than that, the game starts making guesses about your control input to adjust your player character's movement track to make it the most compatible with the canned animations.

And yeah, that is basically the opposite of what Thief needs. No... Heavy Rain is the opposite. And I think Beyond: Two Souls is going to blow even that game out of the ...slime.

Madravk
12th Mar 2013, 00:42
I can't say I mind the idea of bounding over rooftops personally. They are, after all, the thieves highway.

Nephthys
12th Mar 2013, 06:03
I can't say I mind the idea of bounding over rooftops personally. They are, after all, the thieves highway.

Yes, but you should be in complete control of the walking across a narrow beam, or jumping, because without that the tension that you might fall and hear the awful crunching and shouting of a dying man isn't really there.

zhunt
12th Mar 2013, 08:05
more a comment on levels and open world than the players actual ability to climb etc, but, if this game is open world, i would like the option to travel to a mission start when it loads or get there from the entry/exit point from my hideout etc.
in thief 1 , u didnt have to run all over town to get to the mission, it loaded, and u started inside the walls of the mansion or whatever.
in tds, u had to run all about the place from one side of town to the other before u even started the mission, and then u had to rnu all the way back.
at times, i enjoyed this, at other times, it was a bit tiresome. i know, it encouraged exploration and pickpocketing.
would be nice though that when a level loads, u can choose to either start at your hideout or some start point and make your own way there and explore, or u can choose to just start at the mission starting point, cause sometimes, u just want to get on with the missions themselves and the story, not have the run about town.
dont get me wrong, i enjoyed exploring the city in tds, just not all the time. and if you do have to go all over the place, then it cant just be a series of locked buildings, you need to be able to seriously explore the entire place.
i seem to recall overhearing some moron claiming to be garrett and someone was hiring him for a job. i enjoyed blackjacking him

Keeper_Riff
12th Mar 2013, 09:55
i seem to recall overhearing some moron claiming to be garrett and someone was hiring him for a job. i enjoyed blackjacking himYou missed the opportunity to watch this moron actually trying to do Garrett's job and cussing about how it's all difficult and unusual for him.

MasterTaffer
12th Mar 2013, 09:56
You missed the opportunity to watch this moron actually trying to do Garrett's job and cussing about how it's all difficult and unusual for him.

And how not even Garrett could figure out where the Oran Cross dagger was hidden... :lol:

zhunt
12th Mar 2013, 11:37
You missed the opportunity to watch this moron actually trying to do Garrett's job and cussing about how it's all difficult and unusual for him.

ahhh man. bit too quick to crack his noggin. to busy being pissed off he was impersonating me. too proud and arrogant. lol

Madravk
12th Mar 2013, 20:15
*cough* ANYWAY yes, I feel that they should include some improved movement options which should obviously be more involved than hold direction and button and go. Balancing across a beam and making a dangerous leap from rooftop to rooftop would improve movement, immerse the player in a thief-like situation and hopefully encourage developing skill so when you pull it off you feel good about it.