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huzi73
16th May 2009, 23:10
Its quite clear that for TDS,ION STORM took inspiration from DEUS EX moreso than they took inspiration from T1-T2.I personally think EM could take heaps of inspiration from :
Oblivion(audio/visual,anbience,dungeons,)
Bioshock.(audio/visual,part steampunk)
MGS(havent played any..)
Splinter Cell (stealth)
Rise of Nations:Rise of Legends(steampunk)
Arcanium(steampunk)
Assasins Creed(climbing glove independant wall climbing,I'd like to see someone photoshop Altair in full black dress..)
THIEF 1-2 (duh!) (ESPECIALLY: excerpts & quotes from books before videos/cutscenes,objectives screen,menu look & feel,plot,audio,Hammerites,Mechanist,music,sfx)(also take inspiration for the entire game from the THIEF 1 intro(try to grasp the vision of what Looking Glass Studio was trying to create,but tecnology prevented them from doing))
what games do you think could Thief 4 take inspiration from?And in what way?

LightWarriorK
16th May 2009, 23:53
Meh, I'd say just leave it at Thief 1&2. It's got a great steampunk style all it's own that can be refined without looking too far from the source. We shouldn't be saying "Ooh, this has such a great Bioshock feel to it!"

Gameplay, too, shouldn't be borrowed from other games, even just inspiration. If EM wanted to make a game like one of those, they should make those and not Thief 4.

That's just me, though.

Jilly The Taffer
17th May 2009, 00:06
Thief DP and MA.

There's no better inspiration for a sequel than it's origins, the very seed that it grew from.

However:


Oblivion(audio/visual,anbience,dungeons,)

I agree, they should take some inspiration from this famous game, and it's awesome predecessor, Morrowind. :thumb:

Lady_Of_The_Vine
17th May 2009, 00:12
Meh, I'd say just leave it at Thief 1&2. It's got a great steampunk style all it's own that can be refined without looking too far from the source. We shouldn't be saying "Ooh, this has such a great Bioshock feel to it!"

Gameplay, too, shouldn't be borrowed from other games, even just inspiration. If EM wanted to make a game like one of those, they should make those and not Thief 4.

That's just me, though.

I have to agree... :)
The only inspiration really required is that of the Thief series itself (mainly 1 & 2). :cool:

Thieffanman
17th May 2009, 05:30
Inspiration?

1) Definitely the previous "Thief" games: 1,2, and 3. All of these games have positive aspects that T4 could use.
2) "Assassin's Creed". Weapons, climbing up to vantage points to get a better look at the city, travel in between cities, flying leaps into bales of hay :). There are many positive aspects that Eidos could take from AC.
3) The old Black Isle D&D games like "Icewind Dale". Types of missions, armor and weapon design, spells, etc.

--Thieffanman

DarthEnder
17th May 2009, 07:39
"previous Thief games" had damn well better be a given.


I really do feel like more than anything else Assassin's Creed had the most moments of "man, I wish they would add this into a thief game." The obvious one is it's running and climbing physics. And I feel like the melee combat is another. The stealth system and the open city are definite no-no's though.

Terr
17th May 2009, 08:29
Assassin's creed had some tower-climbing scenes where I just had to stop and gawp. I remember being incredibly impressed as got my first view of Damascus from the high hillside, and the tallest building in Acre.

The whole "climbing around outside" feature (also seen in some Splinter Cell games) would be a very nice inclusion, if it allowed you to bypass guard positions by going from one window to another, etc. It would complement the rope arrow in many ways.

huzi73
17th May 2009, 09:10
Guys,I did not mean take inspiration as in "copy & paste" let me give you an example:after half life 1,most games followed its footsteps in terms of how gameplay,sound & ai functioned and basically evolved.When HL2 came out,with its charactes that show emotions,nearby explosions temporarily deafening etc.Again,most games took lesson and followed suit.Im not saying i want splicers,but hell T1 is a decade old now.In terms of content,story,lore etc thats fine,but in terms of audio/visual,ambience,Bioshock has showed the industry how its supposed to be done.Please dont get me wrong,I dont want Garrett in Rapture stealing Adam,merely T4 using games such as Bioshock,Oblivion & Assasins Creed,(since they seem to have the popular vote)and using them as a benchmark,trying to better T4 by looking at what those games did right.Get what im saying?

Lady_Of_The_Vine
17th May 2009, 10:00
"previous Thief games" had damn well better be a given.

I really do feel like more than anything else Assassin's Creed had the most moments of "man, I wish they would add this into a thief game." The obvious one is it's running and climbing physics. And I feel like the melee combat is another. The stealth system and the open city are definite no-no's though.

I agree that the running and climbing physics of AC were amazing and could work well for T4.

Espion
17th May 2009, 10:23
Assassin's Creed was definitely a beautiful and entertaining game... Except for those damn beggars and leppers... And climbing was great, but it was from 3rd person. As far as Thief is concerned I think 3rd person should be an absolute no.

Rather, they should take inspiration from the climbing system of Mirror's Edge. I figure parkour might come across as too modern or "extreme" for some people but essentially the way you move around in that game is very similar to how you'd move around in Thief.

Despite it's glitchy collission, Mirror's Edge felt much closer to Thief in the sense of moving around than any modern game since... Including Thief DS. It seems like a real evolution of the movement system of the originals (manting, catching onto ledges and pulling yourself up on missed jumps.)

If you get a chance to play it, try to imagine the Thief City instead of Edge City. Look past the glossy white surroundings and imagine running the Thieves Highway instead :)

Flashart
17th May 2009, 11:25
I'd like an open city like "Oblivion". TDS was a reasonable attempt but too small and urgh! the loading zones. However if it couldn't be done right with a day/night cycle I could live without it.
There was a little played game called "Sniper Elite" (and also "Hidden and Dangerous 2") a stealth shooter that got a lot wrong, but it's use a of a "sniperscope" ie watching patrols, planning routes etc, worked really well. I'd like to use Garrett's eye like this.
An Editor like "Neverwinter Nights 2" would be great, simple to use, with lots of textures etc. and a user friendly audition system.

huzi73
17th May 2009, 15:52
I'd like an open city like "Oblivion". TDS was a reasonable attempt but too small and urgh! the loading zones. However if it couldn't be done right with a day/night cycle I could live without it.
There was a little played game called "Sniper Elite" (and also "Hidden and Dangerous 2") a stealth shooter that got a lot wrong, but it's use a of a "sniperscope" ie watching patrols, planning routes etc, worked really well. I'd like to use Garrett's eye like this.
An Editor like "Neverwinter Nights 2" would be great, simple to use, with lots of textures etc. and a user friendly audition system.

I like this kinda idea,the eye could be put to better use,however,i personally feel,a later mission could involve "daytime" sneaking(probably the final mission,relying more on speed,observing patrols and distraction,rather than clinging to the shadows)(something like mgs/splinter cell)this is JUST an idea,taking out shadows entirely would suck(cragscleft prison was a daytime mission...)

Petike the Taffer
18th May 2009, 07:06
The Penumbra series (http://www.penumbragame.com/) by Frictional Games (http://frictionalgames.com/site/).

That is all.

Terr
18th May 2009, 08:25
Petike: Could you be more specific, for those of us who haven't played them?

IMO Thief is very different from a survival-horror (or survival, or horror) title. The high points in Thief are making the player feel convincingly powerful, not vulnerable.

If you find yourself in trouble it's because you tried and failed, rather than it being a default state of being. This is precisely why levels like the Cradle had such a powerful effect on people: It broke the pattern, the expectation that you could plan and react to enemies. (In this case, it did so in a good way.) Ghosting through the level stopped being a challenge and started being survival.

Caranfin
18th May 2009, 20:42
Inspiration?
"Assassin's Creed". Weapons, climbing up to vantage points to get a better look at the city, travel in between cities, flying leaps into bales of hay :). There are many positive aspects that Eidos could take from AC.
No, please not. Especially no diving into a pile of hay from dozens of meters up. It's one of the most ridiculous things I've ever seen in a game.


The old Black Isle D&D games like "Icewind Dale". Types of missions, armor and weapon design, spells, etc.
Sorry but, again, no. The thief universe is so much better in every respect to such clichéd D&D worlds like Forgotten Realms. I certainly do not want enemies going around doing "Chain Lightning" or whatever when they see me.


Its quite clear that for TDS,ION STORM took inspiration from
Oblivion(audio/visual,anbience,dungeons,)
Everything in Oblivion felt like it was pasted together from a template. Visiting different locations became repetitive and boring very soon. What's more, the entire game felt... sterile. It lacked any kind of immersion. I don't think I'd like EM to look at that for inspiration.


And to not seem like I just disagree with people, I am going to say that Thief might benefit from a very toned-down version of the movement in Mirror's Edge.

huzi73
18th May 2009, 21:03
No, please not. Especially no diving into a pile of hay from dozens of meters up. It's one of the most ridiculous things I've ever seen in a game.


Sorry but, again, no. The thief universe is so much better in every respect to such clichéd D&D worlds like Forgotten Realms. I certainly do not want enemies going around doing "Chain Lightning" or whatever when they see me.


Everything in Oblivion felt like it was pasted together from a template. Visiting different locations became repetitive and boring very soon. What's more, the entire game felt... sterile. It lacked any kind of immersion. I don't think I'd like EM to look at that for inspiration.


And to not seem like I just disagree with people, I am going to say that Thief might benefit from a very toned-down version of the movement in Mirror's Edge.

Ok,so Oblivion had some bland level design,but,there were some really cool ambient elements,many Thief-like sneaky moments,not to mention,certain audio sfx moments that were cool,the rattling sort of clicking noises that skeleton warriors made while walking,beams of light,trickling in through the crevices in underground passageways.The drips of water which could be heard,albeit faintly,while sneaking underground,enemies that walked around with torches etc.It might not have been the evolution over Morrowind everyone hoped for,but it certainly nailed a few things spot on,just run through a remote forest in there,and imagine your'e Garrett.Besides,give it some credit,it won quite a few awards.I also agree,Garrett could take a few subtle movement aspects from Mirrors Edge and Assasins Creed.

WhatsHisFace
18th May 2009, 21:34
Inspiration should be taken from Thief 2 and nothing else. Not even Thief 1, which was like a mix of Thief 2 and Tomb Raider. :(

Terr
18th May 2009, 21:37
It's one of the most ridiculous things I've ever seen in a game.
Leaping off the tallest spire in Acre is an exercise in shark-jumping.

Petike the Taffer
20th May 2009, 19:40
Petike: Could you be more specific, for those of us who haven't played them?

Yes, I could... ;)

Calling Penumbra a survival horror doesn't do it justice. Sure, it is primarily that (storywise), but it's also about solving puzzles (like in a typical point-and-click adventure game), using effective stealth as much as possible (you're not a tank, but an ordinary, somewhat geeky fellow) and especially... fully interactive enviroments with realistic physics - while many games use physic puzzles only for some gimmicky minigames, Penumbra relies on them from start to finish. You have to actually grab or pick up an object and actively manipulate with it (throw it, turn it around, swing it, plug it, beat it to bits, use it as an improvised shield or throwing weapon). That's the main charm of the series - the directness of the interaction also adds to the immersivness and overall quality of the horror atmosphere. And mind you, the whole series was made on a smaller budget by a small indie team consisting of only two core members - yet it still doesn't look dated, though it's also not a next-gen graphics attention whore (thank God for that). All in all, it showed me an astoundingly different and creative approach to modern adventure gaming.

The devs admit the inspiration by Thief (and the system they used is one of the stealthiest I've seen outside Garrett's virtual adventures), so I think it's time their little masterpiece should influence Thief IV to return the favour...

And how should it influence Thief, you ask ?

More physics-based interaction with the world. Besides the already established things, the player of Thief should get the chance to change the enviroment more manually - creating makeshift hiding places, barricades for unextinguishable light sources and improvised traps (made from common objects lying around, like crates, planks, furniture, pieces of cloth, etc.).

MasterTaffer
20th May 2009, 19:43
Posted this in another thread, but it work here too:


If I may borrow an idea from another game franchise...

In Hitman, the player has a feature at his disposal where he may look through a keyhole to see a limited view of the otherside of the door. I've always thought this was a mechanic that would lend itself better to Thief rather than Hitman, as most modern locks can't be gazed through like they are in Hitman.

It'de be fairly simple control wise to do. Frob (Highlight) the door to open and/or pick the lock. Frob the door handle to look through the keyhole to see a limited, "tunnel vision" view of the room on the other side.

Yaphy
20th May 2009, 21:35
Take inspiration from Mirrors Edge! (The first person look things in the game, nothing more.)
I loved the way Dice made Mirrors Edge feel. The wind blowing past your head in a "vsssh" sound. Standing still and see the screen move slight up and down depending on the breathing. The arms going up and protects the face when close to a wall. Running in to a wall makes both hands go up. The smoothness of the screenmotions that didnt exist in Thief DS. Hear the breathing get more intense after running a while. To see the arms quite much, and the rest of the body for that sake (I know, nobody has their arms like that in real life. But it looks good in games). It kinda takes away the "im a floating head feeling, even if there is a body and you dont see it before you look down all the way.

Petike the Taffer
20th May 2009, 21:49
Take inspiration from Mirrors Edge!

Several people have already suggested it. I'm quite skepticle, though.

huzi73
20th May 2009, 23:18
Posted this in another thread, but it work here too:

wasnt this in Thief 2?Or...Maybe I've been dreaming

MasterTaffer
21st May 2009, 00:06
wasnt this in Thief 2?Or...Maybe I've been dreaming

Nope. You could lean against doors to listen to the other side, but no keyhole looking.

Smooogy
21st May 2009, 00:39
Assassin's creed has the coolest medieval cities ever. Thief 4 should take note of that and design some levels or areas that would provide the same free range fun... To a point.

hellwalker
21st May 2009, 04:49
The only source thief to has take inspiration about stealth is Thief! No other game came remotely close to it in stealth gameplay.

But I would like it to take inspiration about animation from splinter cell, I had enough of crappy animations in DS already:hmm:

xDarknessFallsx
21st May 2009, 05:55
This will be a surprise, coming from me... but I would like TH4F to take its inspiration from T2.