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View Full Version : Non-combatant ways of dealing with AIs



Keeper_Riff
16th May 2009, 13:33
I think there should be more non-combatant ways of dealing with NPCs. A distraction using noisemaker arrow is always more dangerous and noisy than just blackjacking and gassing. A distraction with broadheads and throwing things is quieter but still dangerous as an NPC goes not too far from his post and can return in a very short amount of time. Dealing with Highpriest in St.Edgar's (in TDS) is a very good example. But it's scripted, and I'd like to see some more general reactions. A guard that encountered several repeating strange things in one place should eventually give up searching for nothing and go for another solution: seek for a torch to lighten the place, report to sergeant, take some holy water etc. That should give the player some more time to lockpick the door, steal something and go away without direct confrontation. That could make a new 'poltergeist' style to appear in addition to Lytha's and Ghost. Maybe there should be a possibility to lash a guard to maddnes so that he could run away from his post completely (but it should be really difficult and sould take for about half an hour).

Other examples:
1) A guard heard a strange noise and saw the room is too dark for him to see anything. He goes to the nearest torch, but the torch is stuck in its holder too tight and it took some time for a guard to take it, giving a thief a possibility to run away. Or maybe a torch will extinguish (not hard-scripted, but a random failure of his action) and a guard ("Clumsy me!") would have to find another source of fire to relight it. Or maybe he would randomly burn his fingers and run for some water to dip his hand in.

2) After a clueless searching for a source of some distraction, a guard stumbled upon a servant walking by. He blames a poor servant for a distraction (it was done in DS, but only when a body is found) and leads him to the sergeant.

etc… etc…

NathanGPLC
16th May 2009, 13:39
Having specific 'high alert' guard locations might be interesting; for example, in a castle, there might be guards on patrol AND a bunch asleep in a bunk room. However, if you (or anyone else) pulls the alarm bell, all the guards go on higher alert, patrol more often, and the sleeping ones wake up and assume specific posts--doubling up in some places, and making new guard posts in other locations.

This might be especially interesting if, at some point, you NEED the guards to wake up and go to their posts in order to sneak into/through/pat their bunk room, or similar. You could either try sneaking through normally, and risk being caught, gas arrow the whole room, or pull the alarm, making the rest of the castle harder but that room easier....your choice!

Blessed be,
~Nathan

Prince_VLAD
16th May 2009, 13:49
I would go for the randomly reacting thing.Guards NPC have a 9-10 forms of reacting (including monolog for them) and they pick the one randomly.This way you'll never know how he would react which is realistic.
Variation would make things interesting in the game.

esme
16th May 2009, 13:49
I'd like to be able to push the AI over in similar situations to where I could use a blackjack

no I'm not just being nasty to the AI for the sake of it

for example you could give a good hard push to an AI and have them fall into a river or a well, assuming they could swim and get out the noise they make while doing so would be an excellent distraction

if it was absolutely necessary you could push an AI off a rampart or cliff to kill them

or if you'd lost your blackjack (my own personal hell, even though I used it myself in my FM) a good hard push to send an AI sprawling into a room where you lock the door before it can get up

AI would need to react to anything other than a light touch though, I've always thought the T1/T2 trick of pushing a stationary AI until they are hard up against a wall to be a little silly

Abelo
16th May 2009, 15:02
I think non-lethal proximity mines are a juicy idea to combine with noise distractions.

Keeper_Riff
16th May 2009, 16:27
I would go for the randomly reacting thing.Guards NPC have a 9-10 forms of reacting (including monolog for them) and they pick the one randomly.This way you'll never know how he would react which is realistic.
Variation would make things interesting in the game.

Not the complete randomness. If a guard would just enter a shadow and swing his sword left and right trying to hit someone he cannot see, this would punish player for being stealthy, and this shouldn't be. There should be some kind of certainity: if you distract a guard and he still can't see you, then his reaction should be not worse for the player than if he simply continue his search. If it doesn't, a player wouldn't risk distracting and would just kill that guard. He must know that he won't be punished for choosing stealthy and non-combat way, and a guard will evetually (after 3-6 tries randomly) leave his post for at least several minutes.

DarthEnder
16th May 2009, 17:18
I think non-lethal proximity mines are a juicy idea to combine with noise distractions.Isn't that what gas mines are?

Step 1: Drop gas mine.

Step 2: Hide

Step 3: Shoot Noisemaker Arrow at gas mine.

Step 4: Profit!

Keeper_Riff
16th May 2009, 18:10
I think non-lethal proximity mines are a juicy idea to combine with noise distractions. A bottle of wine maybe? "Hey, did someone dropped it? Hmm… no one here. So I can keep it to myself and hide it in my stash." *walks to his quarters*

mister_riz
18th May 2009, 10:07
One thing I'd like to see is the ability to knock out by throwing/dropping something onto a guards head with in-game objects rather than fancy equipment tbh

Yaphy
18th May 2009, 21:28
Yes! I actually thought it would work in Thief DS but got disapointed when i trew a little barrel at a guard and nothing happend ecept that the guard "moved" away. Throwable stuff could knock guards out, and "pushable" stuff could kill them (if you push a big crate over an egde and hit a guard in the head).

Nate
18th May 2009, 21:47
How about buying off guards to look the other way or take a 'sick day' off.

This could be an option during mission briefings 'do you want to buy off a guard to not show up for work/leave a door unlocked/pretend not to ever see you?' It would cost you gold and would only be available for a few missions. Fanatics and undead related missions wouldn't allow this sort of thing, of course