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Espion
14th May 2009, 14:18
*Moderator Updates* (from March 2013)

Summary of Info/Articles


Thief outfit display at PAX East.

http://i1087.photobucket.com/albums/j472/Twizted_Viewz/outfit.jpg

http://kotaku.com/thief/




According to the Game Informer article, EM actually commissioned some New York fashion designers to make a real life version of Garrett's outfit to ensure it would be quiet in movement. Looks can be decieving like that.












___






Could we have Garrett dressed up like he was in the first two games instead of the third. Specifically, please don't give him that awful vest again. Sleeves over the arms please, and if the player has a visible shadow, please make it clear that he's wearing his cloak :) Thank you.

Lady_Of_The_Vine
14th May 2009, 17:38
A good idea for a dedicated thread, apparel is important! :cool: :D

Let's discuss Garrett and other townsfolk.

Herr_Garrett
14th May 2009, 17:58
Nono, not like DP and MA. Come on, that apparel was ridiculous, thank the Builder we didn't see it more than necessary.
Instead, the devs should cast their eyes upon JohnP's Garrett-garment, and copy-paste it.

Stoic
14th May 2009, 18:04
Hmmmm . . . a cloak that tends to flow well would certainly be nice. I would think that the graphics engine should be enough to handle a decent cloak.

HellionKal
14th May 2009, 18:06
He should DEFINITELY wear a hooded dark cloak as seen in the cutscenes of the first 2 games. What goes under the cloak does not really interest me.

acridrose
14th May 2009, 18:47
I for one see apparel as less significant because Garrett is not a very 'physical' character- he is a shadow and a voice, and this non-material presence that he is helps him sneak about. I think garrett should stick true to what he is in T1&2 which is a cloaked figure with a mechanical eye in T2 that sticks out through his shadow.. no more than that- maybe even faceless.

Espion
14th May 2009, 19:24
Nono, not like DP and MA. Come on, that apparel was ridiculous, thank the Builder we didn't see it more than necessary.
Instead, the devs should cast their eyes upon JohnP's Garrett-garment, and copy-paste it.

I should clarify that I really meant the Garrett you see in the cutscenes.

If I recally correctly, the character model in Thief one was a large brown rectangle of some sort :scratch:

Whilst you could see yourself in Thief 2 they were obviously limited by technology.

Now remember that, except for remote eyes, you're hardly going to see yourself beyond your arms but the main point that should be focused on is his large black cloak that he's always wearing. Whilst it's well established that cloaks are rarely practical, it's part of who Garrett is. With the tech as powerful as it is now, there's no reason why we can't have a lovely cloak that flaps in the digital wind :)

Oh, and also sleeeeeves! That vest really was nasty :P

DarthEnder
14th May 2009, 19:33
Right, cutscene Garrett in T1 and T2 is perfect.

Ingame Garrett model in T1 and T2...not so much.

Icky6
14th May 2009, 20:06
Nice thread, and something I'd totally forgotten about. The big cloak is definitely part of Garrett's look. Not that I want to see him in 3rd person or anything. Just in cut scenes.

Lady_Of_The_Vine
14th May 2009, 20:30
Just to say, don't get too confused between the thread title and OP's first post. We can talk about Garrett but ALSO other characters in the game when it comes to apparel. :)

EDIT:
I've amended title slightly to show that this can be a general clothing discussion for all characters, not just Garrett.

acridrose
14th May 2009, 20:35
Let's talk about our favourite wood nymph's apparel, Viktoria. What clothes should she have in this reboot of thief? :rasp: dream on.

Espion
14th May 2009, 21:14
Let's talk about our favourite wood nymph's apparel, Viktoria. What clothes should she have in this reboot of thief? :rasp: dream on.

Unless she's disguised and walking amongst normal people she should be butt-naked as normal... Though tree bark doesn't really do it for me... Kind of scratchy o_O

I can't quite recall what it was, but there was something that seemed very "off" about the character models used in Deadly Shadows. I think it might've been the zealous use of normal maps (which usually results in everyone having a shiny gloss to them) but I think they'd also altered the visual style of the Hammer's... I'm trying to find screenshots to remind myself...

Ok, I can't find anything at the moment and I'm being called away to play a game so I'll talk about it later, but there was something about them that looked wrong!

Thieffanman
14th May 2009, 21:15
Garret's apparel in Thief 3 was *okay*; the thing I'm wondering is, should it evolve slightly?

Taken Assassin's Creed, for example: the Middle AgesCrusades Altair wore medieval clothes. The released artwork for the Renaissance-era Altair has him wearing a short cape and a doublet.

So . . . if the Thief World has evolved from medieval village goth/steampunk, should Garret have a doublet, maybe a short cape . . .

Or don't mess with a good thing, and leave the clothes from T3 as they are.

--Thieffanman

acridrose
14th May 2009, 21:54
Garret's apparel in Thief 3 was *okay*; the thing I'm wondering is, should it evolve slightly?

Taken Assassin's Creed, for example: the Middle AgesCrusades Altair wore medieval clothes. The released artwork for the Renaissance-era Altair has him wearing a short cape and a doublet.

So . . . if the Thief World has evolved from medieval village goth/steampunk, should Garret have a doublet, maybe a short cape . . .

Or don't mess with a good thing, and leave the clothes from T3 as they are.

--Thieffanman

Although I HATE referring to Assassin's Creed on this board (just because they are very different games), you raise a very good point- one thing to note is the incredible design for Altair- his attire represents who he is very well, right down to the 'beak' tip of his hood. He is a good example of a genuinely inspiring character model.

Flashart
15th May 2009, 13:26
What about level specific clothing? If there was some swimming involved perhaps a "short" cloak.
Or a full length waterproofed (leather?) for torrential rain in the city.
The colors in TDS were a little washed out so peoples clothes looked very ordinary, it'd be good to see some bright colors, if only for ease of spotting potential trouble.

Tatyana's Flowers
15th May 2009, 13:36
Clothes from all previous Thief games that can change depending on mission demands...

Espion
15th May 2009, 14:00
Ok, I've found some good images on The Dark Wiki:

Hammerites in Thief 2 (http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/thief/images/0/02/DromEd_Object_Model_hamsol01_%26_hamsol02.jpg).

Compared to:

Hammerites in Thief DS (http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/thief/images/a/a3/TDS_HammerGuards.JPG).

Besides the OTT normal maps that make the leather armour look like crocodile skin and the material look quilted, my biggest beef with the DS versions are the colouring and the complete lack of a Hammer on their armour.

In TG and TMA you get these religious soldiers all dressed up in their shiny metal armour, the bright red cloth, and adorned with the symbol of their church. These guys are meant to be religious warriors, zealots in fact, so they should have a little more identifying marks than the weapon they carry and the colour red.

Whilst the DS version clearly looks like they're going for a gritty, perhaps more realistic, look they've basically lost everything that made a Hammerite stand out from a common mercenary. Why are they suddenly wearing leather? It's not like the Hammers have a shortage of metal (they have their own mines, foundries and smiths, usually in their churces). I know they lost some when the mechanists split, but that should surely just mean they have a ton of extra suits lying around :P

Whilst I accept that they'd be dirty there's no reason why the red cloth would suddenly be so much darker. It looked more like the game was suffering from the classic thinking of "if it's dark/brown then it's more realistic."

These guys are meant to be fanatical and passionate. They're not gonna dress so drably and they're certainly not gonna go out with nothing but the Hammer on their back.

As far as attire for the Hammers go, I'd like to see something a little closer to the original design. It's still possible to make them look more realistic (if that's what DS was after) but they need to resemble a holy soldier more than a thug.

Thieffanman
15th May 2009, 17:38
Re: Other characters's clothes--

My minor gripe with DS was that the women were largely dressed the same: form-fitted dress. The only way to really tell if they were Pagan priestesses, ordinary townsfolk, or what-have-you is to get up close to them.

T4 should have different body types or shapes. Using European historical fashions as a model, perhaps wealthy women should be dressed in clothes that resemble gowns with hoops (not to mention *tons* of jewelry to swipe ;)), whereas poorer women should have simple, more form-fitting clothes with barely a pouch full of coins.

In DS, the wealthy men of Auldale wore long tunics that almost resembled dresses, whereas in Old Quarter and the Docks you had them dressed more like day laborers. I liked it; T4 should expand upon this.

--Thieffanman

Squall
15th May 2009, 17:57
Yeah the cloak is a must! It would make him lose his form in the shadows. I always found it a little annoying how easy Garrett was to spot in thief DS in 3rd person mode.

As for the townsfolk I agree that there should be more character models. Where are all the stooped hobbling beggars and shambling hooded shapes?

I just hope the engine is better for this game so that the fabric and hair can move better. If they can't get Garretts cloak to flap in the wind then NO 3RD PERSON MODE! Hehehe

Hypevosa
15th May 2009, 18:22
I agree, the Garrett from the first 2 games' cut scenes is probably the best model for what he should look like. In terms of clothing, just better looking graphics wise from the other games... maybe a few new models. Not every single piece has to be different, because styles were prominent and so people would wear the same stuff. Unique characters should probably wear unique things, maybe even have an unusually... fabulous character.

DarthEnder
16th May 2009, 01:41
Although I HATE referring to Assassin's Creed on this board (just because they are very different games), you raise a very good point- one thing to note is the incredible design for Altair- his attire represents who he is very well, right down to the 'beak' tip of his hood. He is a good example of a genuinely inspiring character model.Well, I love referring to AC. :p

Nevertheless, Altair's outfit, but in black, would be pretty epic. In fact, I already thought Altair basically looked like Garrett but in white.

Hypevosa
16th May 2009, 01:57
Well, I love referring to AC. :p

Nevertheless, Altair's outfit, but in black, would be pretty epic. In fact, I already thought Altair basically looked like Garrett but in white.

I had the same exact opinion. I saw Altair and I pointed it out to my friend and was like LOOK It's Garrett! and he was like "?" so I had to explain to him about the awesomeness of thief and who Garrett was.

Limesneeker
16th May 2009, 13:27
Actually the black leather cloak and clothing (included gloves) which Garrett wears on the Thief 2 box cover is nice....

Garrett21
17th May 2009, 04:04
Garrett: similar to Dominus's concept

BlooferLady
17th May 2009, 04:45
I'm going to be the annoying voice of reason. I would say no cloak on missions. As any woman would know from wearing a long skirt, the more fabric you have flapping about, the harder it is for you to move. I would list all the trouble you could get into wearing a cloak when you know you're going to have to fight/climb/sneak, but Disney's done a great job already: http://video.ugo.com/player.aspx?articleID=12992

It's just not practical. He does look rather dashing in it, though. :) Actually, when you watch the cutscenes from TDP, he's not wearing a cape. Not that what he is wearing is the height of fashion. Perhaps only in the city hubs, where he would have to conceal his face, what with all those wanted posters about.

I would like some variety in the social classes you see around the city. You had nobles, thugs, merchants, and barmaids, and each of these groups was mostly one gender.

My only other attire idea would be to make the clothing fall and move more naturally. Those skirts in TDS looked like elastic bands! I'm sure that's really hard to animate, but it's something I notice.

Espion
17th May 2009, 12:28
I'm going to be the annoying voice of reason. I would say no cloak on missions. As any woman would know from wearing a long skirt, the more fabric you have flapping about, the harder it is for you to move.

You're absolutely right that cloaks are impractical and I'm always an avid supporter of common sense... However ;)

I practise the Japanese martial art Iaido. If anyone else here has done or seen any kind of Iaido then they'll know that the Hakama (the trousers) and the Gi (the shirt) are very baggy, flappy, sheets of material (less so with a standard Gi however higher Dan students can get Gi with much baggier sleeves). As a beginner it can be difficult to move effectively in them without tripping up, but with lots of time and practise you get used to it.

This is done through a combination of moving in the right way and using a handy bit of rope to tie back some of the baggier pieces of material as you enter combat. Well trained students can do this very quickly and it's often a sign of such skill that if you were to challenge someone back in the day and they were able to prepare themselves in such a way you'd think twice about following through on your challenge because the chances were extremely high that your head was about to separate itself from your body in a timely fashion.

Now I'm NOT suggesting that this be made into a gameplay mechanic and that there be a "tie cloak back" key. That would be dumb. I'm just pointing out that it would be possible and fairly useful for a Thief to wear a long cloak.

During the mission, due to his training, he'd be able to move without it getting in the way (remember cloaks aren't bound all the way down to encircle the body like a skirt so they can be thrown back behind you) as well as being able to shroud himself with it when needing to hide in a shadow. Likewise, when he's out of a mission he'd be able to conceal all his weapons and his collossal loot bag as he walks the streets (though obviously he'd be taking the Thieves Highway instead of walking at street level :rasp:

If the average Joe were to wear a cloak and run from rooftop to rooftop, he'd probably trip, get it caught on something and end up hanging himself. When it comes to Garrett, I think we can assume that he's practised and trained enough to pull the look off without endangering himself.

Besides... It looks cool :cool: (Such a terrible reason to do something normally but sometimes you can let it slide).

Petike the Taffer
17th May 2009, 18:29
Espion :

I agree, the Hammer guards should have more inconography on their armor and there should be more Hammerite guards or knights with partial plate mail (there are a few examples of such in TDS FMs).

But please... not the awful, massive fairytalish cuirasses they wear in TDP and TMA ! They're absolutely ridiculous. Subtle plate mail shoulder-, arm- and leg-guards, would be much better (that's how they moded some of the Hammer's in several TDS FMs and it looked really convincing and good). All in all, I'm for a more varied and improved TDS-inspired look.

MasterTaffer
17th May 2009, 18:45
An observant person will notice Garrett doesn't wear a cloak in the briefing cutscenes of Thief 1 & 2. Garrett likely doesn't wear a cloak on the job, as it's a long piece of fabric that will likely hinder his movements and agility and get caught on things while he works. The bad outweighs the benefit of it concealing a human figure in the shadows.

PiCroft
17th May 2009, 18:56
something I think might be interesting is the ability to alter one's attire if third person is going to be used.

obviously this is irrelevant if it is first-person only, but I doubt that will be the case.

Aristofiles
3rd Jun 2009, 20:04
im a big fan of the cloak. It makes him look a bit scarry :) One of the sadest part of TDS was to see how small and silly he looked like without it... so skinny.

Think thay can get the effect i want without the cloak though, just give him clothes that aint that slimmed. And perhaps if there is any outdoors mission in the city for example he can have his cloak on again.

when he enters a mission he probably just throws it away in a shrub or something untill he gets back out again.

ToMegaTherion
3rd Jun 2009, 20:18
Who cares about realism, cloaks are just badass.

Hypevosa
3rd Jun 2009, 22:21
im a big fan of the cloak. It makes him look a bit scarry :) One of the sadest part of TDS was to see how small and silly he looked like without it... so skinny.

Think thay can get the effect i want without the cloak though, just give him clothes that aint that slimmed. And perhaps if there is any outdoors mission in the city for example he can have his cloak on again.

when he enters a mission he probably just throws it away in a shrub or something untill he gets back out again.

slimmed clothes are necessary for ease of movement. A cloak provides a few potential benefits, mainly melting into shadows, disorienting a foe in close combat, disarming a foe in close combat, something they can grab and it will break away leaving them temporarily distracted while you run. Cloaks have had many many uses. But most of them I don't think they could incorporate into the game unfortunately.

kaekaelyn
4th Jun 2009, 00:31
Realism? What is this realism of which you speak? Garrett can somehow carry loads of loot without lugging around a big clunky loot bag that jingles when he walks. In fact, in TDS he somehow crams huge framed portraits into this invisible repository without exerting even the slightest bit of effort. I think the cloak is the least of our problems if we want to make Thief into a totally realistic game, and my gut tells me we really don't.

So, a cool black cloak for Garrett, all the way!

Drackulis
6th Jun 2009, 12:25
Guys what do you think?
Does Garrett need a kinda new stealth costume or something?:scratch:
I was first thinking like, "Meaby something like Altair (Assassin's Creed), but black.
So... Here you can post new ideas.:D

Hamadriyad
6th Jun 2009, 12:33
I want cloak. I don't care what is under it. And they must not show what is under it. Even Garrett's face. Like T1 and T2.

Drackulis
6th Jun 2009, 12:48
I want cloak. I don't care what is under it. And they must not show what is under it. Even Garrett's face. Like T1 and T2.

Do you mean no third person mode???:confused::confused::confused:
Better to have first and third person mode.... And meaby second person too:lmao::lol:

Platinumoxicity
6th Jun 2009, 13:31
Guys what do you think?
Does Garrett need a kinda new stealth costume or something?:scratch:
I was first thinking like, "Meaby something like Altair (Assassin's Creed), but black.
So... Here you can post new ideas.:D

Altaïr's suit is a multiple-layer heat reducing apparel, used by many different desert cultures for cooling the body in constant heat, and it's effects have hardly anything to do with the clothes' white color. Garrett wouldn't have any use for clothes like Altaïr's in the cold and wet City, even if they were black.

Garrett should wear the cloak he used in the cutscenes. The reason he uses that is that it conceals his natural human shape in the dark as well as hides any shiny things that he might have with him. (And don't try to say that the cloak is only his City-outfit. We can clearly see in the intro videos of T1, T2, TDS and Soulforge that he's wearing the cloak during missions too.)

AbysmalGale
6th Jun 2009, 13:31
Do you mean no third person mode???:confused::confused::confused:
Better to have first and third person mode.... And meaby second person too:lmao::lol:

Yeah, we mean NO 3rd person mode!! PLEASE! Thief was never made to be a 3rd person game. It's a 1st person sneaker. No more, no less! 3rd person in TDS was a big mistake!

And yup, I want the cloak back! Garrett is kind of naked without his cloak!

Hamadriyad
6th Jun 2009, 14:43
I don't think 3rd person was a mistake. I enjoyed. But of course First person is better, because Thief is First Person Sneaker. Anyway, he must wear cloak, even in 3rd person,maybe especially for 3rd person.(If there will be a 3rd person.)

Shadow Blade
6th Jun 2009, 15:44
I agree with the cloak bring it back. In TDS garret didnt quite look like himself without his trend setting cloak. Maybe in Thief 4 they could give us the option to customize his outfit or buy new ones that could give him armour bonuses , speed bonuses when running, increased gadget capacity, make your foot steps a little softer or just plain look jaw droppingly awesome. If u want to change your outfit u could just go back to ur home/safehourse. There is so much that could be done with thief 4 the possibilites are astounding.

Platinumoxicity
6th Jun 2009, 15:48
Maybe in Thief 4 they could give us the option to customize his outfit or buy new ones that could give him armour bonuses , speed bonuses when running, increased gadget capacity, make your foot steps a little softer or just plain look jaw droppingly awesome. If u want to change your outfit u could just go back to ur home/safehourse. There is so much that could be done with thief 4 the possibilites are astounding.

How about no?

Blade_hunter
6th Jun 2009, 15:49
http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/9738/thiefrender.jpg (http://img34.imageshack.us/my.php?image=thiefrender.jpg)

AbysmalGale
6th Jun 2009, 16:28
how about no?

i second that!

kin
6th Jun 2009, 16:40
What about a new look Garrett?
I will answer with a question.
Was there any need to even think about Garrett's clothes in the first 2 thief games?

Lady_Of_The_Vine
6th Jun 2009, 16:57
I will answer with a question.
Was there any need to even think about Garrett's clothes in the first 2 thief games?

Very good question, that. :D :naughty:

Hamadriyad
6th Jun 2009, 17:02
I looked at Garrett with remote eye when I played T2. There was no cloak! It was a real shock.

jermi
6th Jun 2009, 17:40
Good grief. How similar to Assassin's Creed do you people want Thief 4 to be? 90, 100 or 110 percent?

clock12345
6th Jun 2009, 17:51
garrett should look like in thief 3 but only with cloak and he must not reavel his face only half of it and his mechanical eye in theif 3 was perfect i liked it it should stay so the look stays but you must add the cloak and the mechanical eye to stay the cloak is usage if he falls of a building then he can fly down slowly for couple of seconds and the mechanical eye should be as a night vision like thief 3 so 3rd person should stay.

DarthEnder
6th Jun 2009, 18:24
I was first thinking like, "Meaby something like Altair (Assassin's Creed), but black.I was under the impression that that's already how Garrett dresses. The first time I saw Altair I immediately thought "Hey look, it's Garrett only in white."

Thieffanman
6th Jun 2009, 18:50
AC/ AC2 comparison: In the Assassin's Creed games, Altair's costume (kind of) reflects the clothing of that historical period-- with some fantasy elements involved in his costume, for sure.

If T4 reflected some kind of evolution in the timeline of the "Thief" universe --say, from 'medieval-goth-steampunk' to 'renaissance-goth-steampunk'-- then Garrett's clothes should reflect that.

*If* that happens, the question then becomes how will Eidos show this :). I'd love to see design concepts for Garrett in a doublet, pants, knee-high or thigh-high boots, and maybe more exotic weaponry to match: a crossbow, maybe a small scimitar or rapier instead of a shortsword or dagger.

--Thieffanman

Hypevosa
6th Jun 2009, 18:56
I was under the impression that that's already how Garrett dresses. The first time I saw Altair I immediately thought "Hey look, it's Garrett only in white."

I did the same thing. I was like THEY STOLE GARRETT!!!

It's probably one of the reasons I started looking at the game and bought it honestly...

Hamadriyad
6th Jun 2009, 20:24
[QUOTE=

If T4 reflected some kind of evolution in the timeline of the "Thief" universe --say, from 'medieval-goth-steampunk' to 'renaissance-goth-steampunk'-- then Garrett's clothes should reflect that.



--Thieffanman[/QUOTE]

Thief is only medieval, not renaissance or something.

Hypevosa
6th Jun 2009, 20:34
Thief is only medieval, not renaissance or something.

well all renaissance was was medieval where culture was blooming. Art was more appreciated, invention and philosophy were not seen as a simple waste of time. I'd rather be a renaissance thief personally because of all the extra goodies coming out of it, than a medieval thief where people were still mainly poor.

However, until the war taxes go away that the baron imposed, people probably wouldn't have enough money for a renaissance to start...

Hamadriyad
6th Jun 2009, 21:14
Renaissance was a reaction to gothic. Thief atmosphere is completely gothic.So, if they bring renaissance, atmosphere will change.

Knight
6th Jun 2009, 21:23
I think the game in more exciting in 1st person, so dont be 3rd person, but when u go to menu/character then u should see garrett, and garrett can be rotated, and hes need a cloak, cape (first do without cape, and when the other things are done, try with cape, and when its better with it, then keep it, when not, then leave it), and CLOSED dress, accommodating looklike (in t3 he has too wide shoulder, i cannot believe he has a great atletic skill, but a thief need it), and altair style dress (dont a full copy, just a little bit let him be similar style) But dont let him run on walls or something like that...

Hamadriyad
6th Jun 2009, 22:26
Why dress is so important?This is not sims.Give us a cloak and done.

AbysmalGale
6th Jun 2009, 23:51
I think the game in more exciting in 1st person, so dont be 3rd person, but when u go to menu/character then u should see garrett, and garrett can be rotated, and hes need a cloak, cape (first do without cape, and when the other things are done, try with cape, and when its better with it, then keep it, when not, then leave it), and CLOSED dress, accommodating looklike (in t3 he has too wide shoulder, i cannot believe he has a great atletic skill, but a thief need it), and altair style dress (dont a full copy, just a little bit let him be similar style) But dont let him run on walls or something like that...

Come on. It's not like Garrett is a teenage girl with five wardrobes stuffed with clothes ;) I'm just happy for him if he switches underpants once in a while.

In other words, do NOT let us choose his outfit in the game AT ALL. Dress him up like in good old T1 and T2 and that's it!

lefty
7th Jun 2009, 00:06
In thief 2 you could toss your mechanical eye on the ground and look at yourself. There was no cloak, only a hood. It looked pretty much exactly like that 3d model up there but with more chainmail.

Thieffanman
7th Jun 2009, 00:18
Renaissance was a reaction to gothic. Thief atmosphere is completely gothic.So, if they bring renaissance, atmosphere will change.

Not so. The term "gothic" that I used in my entry is to describe the atmosphere that pervades the game: a city at nighttime, perpetually dark corners, places like The Cradle and the Widow Moira's mansion, an anti-hero as the game's focus, and ambient music that emphasized darkness and foreboding. You can have a Renaissance-era or Renaissance-themed game (or in Thief 4's possible scenario, a pseudo-Renaissance-gothic-steampunk game) with that gothic atmosphere firmly in place, and it could possibly still deliver the same Thief experience-- if it's done right.

I'll admit that the current medieval/goth/steampunk atmosphere that Thief currently has works well enough, though.

--Thieffanman

AbysmalGale
7th Jun 2009, 00:25
In thief 2 you could toss your mechanical eye on the ground and look at yourself. There was no cloak, only a hood. It looked pretty much exactly like that 3d model up there but with more chainmail.

Yup, you're right. But that doesn't mean he should not have a cloak in T4 ;) Besides, I (and most other fans) remember Garrett as seen on the pictures on the game boxes from T1/T2 and as showed in the cutscenes of those games. Dark long cloak and hood. He didn't have the cloak on the TDS box. Looked naked.

lefty
7th Jun 2009, 00:40
Yup, you're right. But that doesn't mean he should not have a cloak in T4 ;) Besides, I (and most other fans) remember Garrett as seen on the pictures on the game boxes from T1/T2 and as showed in the cutscenes of those games. Dark long cloak and hood. He didn't have the cloak on the TDS box. Looked naked.

Oh yeah totally, I was just saying that in reply to the people going on about how he had a cloak on in the first two games during missions. But then again, You can't really go by the models in those games. They weren't great to begin with and the player model wasn't meant to be seen anyway.

Inspector Drept
7th Jun 2009, 00:49
Thief is not only gothic. It´s also victorian.
Specially Thief 2. With all those fancy noble walls and lamps.
And it´s also Art Deco. The robots remind me of that "Metropolis" movie.
Now pagan is crazy. Dadaist, surrealist crazy.

It´s hard to define Thief art stile. Here´s how I see it:

The explored poor - Medieval
Hammerites - Gothic
Pagans - Dadaism, Surrealism
Nobles - Victorian
Mechanists/Robots - Art Deco
---------------------------------------------------------------
As for Garrett...

Wouldn´t it be cool if you could see his reflection on glasses and pools? I agree that it shouldn´t reveal too much. A cloak and a shadowy face.

lefty
7th Jun 2009, 00:52
Nope. Scouting orb.

oh right right. I misremembered, my comp has been incapacitated since november or so.

Hamadriyad
7th Jun 2009, 10:56
[QUOTE=
It´s hard to define Thief art stile. Here´s how I see it:

The explored poor - Medieval
Hammerites - Gothic
Pagans - Dadaism, Surrealism
Nobles - Victorian
Mechanists/Robots - Art Deco
---------------------------------------------------------------.[/QUOTE]

Good observation.;)

custodis
7th Jun 2009, 12:07
Guys what do you think?
Does Garrett need a kinda new stealth costume or something?:scratch:
I was first thinking like, "Meaby something like Altair (Assassin's Creed), but black.
So... Here you can post new ideas.:D

No & No

Garret's a professional thief, not an assa..... interactive dress up ken doll!!

vowdy
7th Jun 2009, 12:11
The outfit from TDS was just fine IMO.

CurtX
7th Jun 2009, 12:43
I'll keep an open mind with letting Garrett try a new look. But please, nothing that will be an obvious ripoff from another game character (like Altair). Although, since I personally hope the next game will be in first person only, we wouldn't be seeing too much of him except for dark glimpses of him in the cutscenes; similar to the first games. Let's keep Garrett mysterious.

Ardoris
7th Jun 2009, 14:43
Now I haven't played the games yet, but really all Garret needs is loose leather clothing to move around, and a long cloak to conceal himself (with a hood). But this time around I think it would be a cool touch if we could see Garret opening up his cloak and going through his items (kind of like Alone In The Dark)! That would make the player feel a bit more like a thief.

huzi73
7th Jun 2009, 15:01
Everybody go have a look at the cutscene after the sword mission, thats how garrett looks without his hood, garrett is not batman, and doesnt need body hugging nano suit looking outfit that allows him to glide, he needs an outfit that conceals his presence in the shadows, a long flowing black robe with a hood, just like the keepers.no boots of stealth, no gadget holders. Garrett in TDS SUCKED! He looked like Sam Fisher, just 400 years or so back.

Hamadriyad
7th Jun 2009, 15:20
But we have tools, right?We must carry these in something, somewhere on the clothe. And Garrett in TDS was pretty good imo. But of course he must wear a cloak.

Platinumoxicity
7th Jun 2009, 16:14
But we have tools, right?We must carry these in something, somewhere on the clothe. And Garrett in TDS was pretty good imo. But of course he must wear a cloak.

Garrett in TDS was pretty bad in many stealth aspects. Although he did have dark blue clothes which are the best for sneaking, but he didn't have a cloak/cape whatever to conceal his human form like in the previous games*. He also didn't have sleeves in his outfit, which is very bad, since he's quite pale and his arms would show easily in dim light. His outfit was also full of useless shiny metal details that would "glint" and also make noises. The outfit he wears in the box art of T1, the dark blue cape, dark blue shirt and dark brown gloves and bracers are the best for sneaking. A full-black outfit is in fact worse in the stealth aspect because pitch black forms "cut out" of the shadows in low light conditions.

Also, c'mon, his mechanical eye didn't glow in the dark in T1 and T2. Don't do that. His dark, brass coloured eye with green optics is a lot cooler than a glowing green one. Look at the T2 box art. He looks badass! :cool:

* Ignore the bad low-poly ingame model of Garrett in T2. That was a pathetic try, and it was that way because of technical limitations.

DarthEnder
7th Jun 2009, 19:20
Also, there's always been this dichotomy between Garrett in cutscenes and Garrett in the game engine. He ALWAYS has a cloak in cutscenes, but he never does in the game itself.

I attribute this to the fact that cloaks looked like **** back then(even during Deadly Shadows era), so they weren't worth including on the model. The first time I ever saw a game where I saw an outfit like Garrett's hooded cloak that behaved awesomely in engine was the Sith Robe in Force Unleashed. That thing is epic.

huzi73
7th Jun 2009, 21:50
But we have tools, right?We must carry these in something, somewhere on the clothe. And Garrett in TDS was pretty good imo. But of course he must wear a cloak.

make up your mind! Cloak like in the 1st 2 games,or leather tights like in TDS? Wanna know why we dont see his tools/items? Coz his hiding them under the cloak! Otherwise, hell stick out from the shadows like christmas tree.

Zahr Dalsk
7th Jun 2009, 22:13
Does Garrett need a kinda new stealth costume or something?

In cutscenes? No. Keep it to the 1 and 2 style. Black cloak and hood.

Ingame? Heavens no, full body awareness worked HORRIBLY in Thief DS. We'll hopefully have the same invisible body, smooth movement, and first-person-only camera as Thief 1 and 2.

razorstealth
7th Jun 2009, 22:23
I loved 3rd person view in TDS!! The ability to slide along a wall and camera around a corner without the need to expose yourself to the enemies is part of the magical art of the unseen that Garret is such a master at. And getting to watch him blackjack people is so much more satisfying in 3rd person. The cloak is a must have. He wears it in basically every video and looks like much more of a BAMF!

Zahr Dalsk
7th Jun 2009, 22:45
I loved 3rd person view in TDS!! The ability to slide along a wall and camera around a corner without the need to expose yourself to the enemies is part of the magical art of the unseen that Garret is such a master at.

You could do this in the Metal Age too, with a little something I like to call "Lean Left" and "Lean Right."

I bound them to Q and E respectively and it let me lean around corners (or indeed, just lean where I was standing, if I felt like leaning for no reason), seldom increasing visibility.

Hamadriyad
8th Jun 2009, 16:10
make up your mind! Cloak like in the 1st 2 games,or leather tights like in TDS? Wanna know why we dont see his tools/items? Coz his hiding them under the cloak! Otherwise, hell stick out from the shadows like christmas tree.

I know that. I want cloak too. I mean Garrett without a cloak may look like Garrett in TDS

clock12345
12th Jun 2009, 19:16
new idea: they are adding cape for garret right? so the cape can be usefell for fall's for example guards are chasing you the only chance is to fall down to the blackally if you press double jump then the cape will be activaded if you fell you wont take any damage the cape can be used for only 5 seconds in the air so its mostly usefell when your almost near the ground. how about this idea?

Captain567
12th Jun 2009, 19:20
Yeah, I think that would suit Garrett... He should drive the fastest car in the world too, that he can afford only because he's really a rich scientist. Oh, and that little girl should be retconned to be a little boy named Sparrow, who can become his trusty sidekick.

Platinumoxicity
12th Jun 2009, 19:30
Yeah and he could also fly short distances by grabbing his cape and flapping his arms when you repeatedly smash the jump button.

kabatta
12th Jun 2009, 19:32
I think the cape idea was exploited in soul reaver. Didn't like that much the puzzles involving it.

Zahr Dalsk
12th Jun 2009, 20:10
The idea of a cape to slow falls kind of does make sense when you look at it from a physics perspective.

Or they could just give us slowfall potions back.

Hamadriyad
12th Jun 2009, 20:21
Slow fall potions back please.

Nothke
12th Jun 2009, 20:40
Yeah and he could also fly short distances by grabbing his cape and flapping his arms when you repeatedly smash the jump button.

what about repeatedly jump AND crouch?


hahaha this topic really made me laugh!!! and above all things, Garrett needs a zippo and a cigarrette

Caranfin
12th Jun 2009, 20:48
The idea of a cape to slow falls kind of does make sense when you look at it from a physics perspective.
It does?

Platinumoxicity
12th Jun 2009, 21:09
Garrett should also have a propeller stuck in his arse that he uses with his buttmuscles, this way he can fly long distances using his cape as a paraglider.

Lady_Of_The_Vine
12th Jun 2009, 21:33
If you taffers want the devs to bother reading suggestions, it might be a good idea to stick to sensible discussion. ;)

Thread merged into existing "Clothing/Attire" thread as most of the current conversation certainly doesn't warrant a thread of its own.

Platinumoxicity
12th Jun 2009, 21:50
If you taffers want the devs to bother reading suggestions, it might be a good idea to stick to sensible discussion. ;)

Thread merged into existing "Clothing/Attire" thread as most of the current conversation certainly doesn't warrant a thread of its own.

But don't stupid ideas require sarcastic mockery? ;)

Maybe we should use "sarcasm disclaimers" to prevent misunderstandings in these situations.

Lady_Of_The_Vine
12th Jun 2009, 21:55
Yes, they do. :D
However, this forum is already bursting at the seams with idea threads, I think most of us prefer to make room on first page for discussion that is not so silly, sorry. :p

Nothke
12th Jun 2009, 22:06
Garret in robe only, I just love the shadow/silhouette of Garrett in the cutscenes of TDP and TMA!

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm163/nothke/garry.jpg

custom made...

SOOOOOO POWERFULL!!!!

I think Garrett should be made weaker, he is a thief not a bodibuilder but his stance, makes him look powerfull!

Zahr Dalsk
12th Jun 2009, 22:17
It does?

Are you familiar with the basic concept of air resistance?

Platinumoxicity
12th Jun 2009, 22:34
Are you familiar with the basic concept of air resistance?

Actually Garrett's cape isn't large enough to function as a parachute for a grown-up man like him. He would need a huge cape the size of a real parachute.

Zahr Dalsk
13th Jun 2009, 03:40
Actually Garrett's cape isn't large enough to function as a parachute for a grown-up man like him. He would need a huge cape the size of a real parachute.

Doesn't need to slow him down as much as a parachute does.

A parachute is intended for falling from way up high in the sky.

This cloak would be to take the edge off of a few extra meters, kind of like slowfall potions (which, you'll notice, aren't as effective as a parachute either, because they don't need to be that effective).

Hypevosa
13th Jun 2009, 06:21
would it slow garrett down? YES, would it be significant enough to matter? NO. Really, if garrett learns how to take falls, i.e. not keep his knees locked like in previous games, he would benefit greatly from it, alot more than the cape would (if he breaks his legs at X fall height, subtract ~3 or 4 inches due to the cape, if that much)

I'd say let the player have to press the crouch button at the end of a fall in order to reduce damage, simulating he took the fall. But the cape would be of little to no significance, even if he held it by it's ends.

Platinumoxicity
13th Jun 2009, 08:38
would it slow garrett down? YES, would it be significant enough to matter? NO. Really, if garrett learns how to take falls, i.e. not keep his knees locked like in previous games, he would benefit greatly from it, alot more than the cape would (if he breaks his legs at X fall height, subtract ~3 or 4 inches due to the cape, if that much)

I'd say let the player have to press the crouch button at the end of a fall in order to reduce damage, simulating he took the fall. But the cape would be of little to no significance, even if he held it by it's ends.

There is already a "hang-drop" in T1 and T2, where you press crouch on the edge on the platform that you want to drop down from, then slowly move down from it. It takes away quite a lot of the damage and makes the landing quiet too.

Hypevosa
13th Jun 2009, 08:41
I always thought that was a fluke, not an actual mechanic... and I thought it's purpose was reducing the sound of landing, not reducing damage... either way, it's the same concept, just taking a fall. Whether you just have to be crouching before hand or crouch when you hit doesn't really matter to me, but Garrett should have learned to drop 20 feet without dying by now, like a normal person can do... unless he's not drinkin his milk and has poor bone health?

*imagines picture of Garrett hiding in the shadows, all you see are the fingers around a glass of white frosty milk and a white milk mustache "Dude, where'd my milk go?"

fayfuya
13th Jun 2009, 10:06
I got an idea, Garrett should stay with his TDS clothes, but he should be able to buy a Cloak that may slower his falls or make him less visible or other abilities, but not supernatural...black cloak with a hood should be an option for buying, and you just wear it....on your previous TDS clothes....
let's say for example you are on first person right? so if you wear the cloak, then you run and turn around quickly you may see your cloak moving :D so damn cool to be Garrett

Caranfin
13th Jun 2009, 10:23
Are you familiar with the basic concept of air resistance?
Yes. And as has been explained, any edge it would take out of the fall would be utterly insignificant. I don't even know why it's being discussed, it's absurd.


Garrett should have learned to drop 20 feet without dying by now, like a normal person can do... unless he's not drinkin his milk and has poor bone health?

I admit I'm not that good with imperial measurements, but according to a conversion program I found 20 feet is approximately 6 meters. That's an insane drop, even onto grass or sand, let alone stone, marble, or wood. You would probably survive it, but your knees and ankles would be absolutely destroyed unless you managed to perform a perfect landing roll.

Hypevosa
13th Jun 2009, 10:28
Why would he buy a cloak when he's got one hanging in his closet practically? Maybe he pawned off his sword and cloak in some horrible decision to get the dagger for TDS, bastard said it would slay undead in one strike......... bastard... At the end of TDS he has an insane enough amount of cash to actually get his stuff back :D

Hypevosa
13th Jun 2009, 10:39
Yes. And as has been explained, any edge it would take out of the fall would be utterly insignificant. I don't even know why it's being discussed, it's absurd.


I admit I'm not that good with imperial measurements, but according to a conversion program I found 20 feet is approximately 6 meters. That's an insane drop, even onto grass or sand, let alone stone, marble, or wood. You would probably survive it, but your knees and ankles would be absolutely destroyed unless you managed to perform a perfect landing roll.

I've jumped 20 feet... yeah it hurts, but it won't do enough damage to cripple you unless you're being stupid about your landing. You definitely aren't running for a bit though XD I did it to gravel and grass, and it's not bad there... I imagine I actually would hurt myself doing it to anything harder. As my physics teacher would say, it's not the car crashing that kills you, it's the Delta T, meaning the amount of time it takes all that force to be delivered. As long as Garrett lands on a surface that provides a long delta T (i.e. Soft Soil, sand, gravel, rubber, MAYBE wood if the boards gave a little) he'll be able to take it... painfully but take it. Here's the equation:

Force imparted to a given object = Mass of the object X the velocity on impact / The amount of time it takes for velocity to be slowed to 0

Caranfin
13th Jun 2009, 11:24
I guess I worded that a bit wrong. Yeah, you would probably not break or dislocate your joints when falling onto loose ground but like you said, it would hurt. A land onto a hard surface is the one that would destroy your legs if you didn't roll, and it would hurt even then if you didn't do it perfectly. And doing drops like that regularly, even onto loose ground, would eventually wear out your knees. Hell, a 4m drop is stupid to do regularly if you aren't David Belle or something.

13LACK13ISHOP
13th Jun 2009, 18:49
I think Garrett should wear a cloak on missions. When it is pitch black it could hide his silhouette to make his outline less visible or make him look like a curtain or hung up coat. Guard dogs recognise people at night by their shape so it would probably be more effective against dogs to or at least make him look bigger and more intimidating. The cloak could also hide his identity, and he could conceal his tools underneath it.The hood is essential. As for the air resistance thing it will at least slow you down regardless of your skill and looks cool at the same time.


Conclusion:Badass

Nate
13th Jun 2009, 19:10
The cloak/hood combo would also reduce damage to a (very) small amount. It would also prevent noise from equipment bumping up against walls/doors.....of course, it would get hooked up on stuff and knock stuff over in real life, but this isn't real life.

xDarknessFallsx
13th Jun 2009, 19:33
Cloaked figure somehow, is my request. Definitely not TDS' vision of him.

Garrett seemed mysterious, dark and shadowy to me in T2. Then TDS ruined that for me by turning the spotlight on him; he wasn't so mysterious any more.

I don't need to see his face, not even in cutscenes -- just a dark shadow under the hood with maybe some features like his nose or chin showing every so often. Bring some mystery back to this character. If there are mirrors in Th4f (not necessary, but IF there are), don't let me look in the mirror and see a pale, pretty-boy Garrett face looking back at me. Ugh, I think I did this in TDS and my stomach churned at the lack of care ISA took in preserving the mysteriousness of Garrett.

I don't want to see his face! I just don't. Any hints of his face that have to be in (and they should only be hints, not lit up) I feel should show some scruff, some dirty unkemptness about him. He shouldn't look like he just stepped out of a Schick razor commercial.

Nate
13th Jun 2009, 19:42
That's right! With all the thieving Garrett does, he doesn't have time for baths or stuff like that!

ShadowMist
14th Jun 2009, 03:37
All good comments, but we are assuming Garrett will be the main character. Not saying he wouldn't be in the game, but maybe not the playable character. It seemed kind of obvious he would ‘retire’, for lack of a better word, at the end of TDS with the story wrap up thing. Then again, I thought it was obvious they wouldn't make another Thief, either. Personally, I'd like to play as the little girl; break the stereotype for this kind of genre (or video games in general.) Either way, I’m not picky, I just want to play. If she is the playable character, I would much prefer not to give her the stereotypical revealing or overly 'girly' clothes. The point is not to be seen… not make the guards jaw drop while robbing them blind.

Nate
14th Jun 2009, 03:47
LOL! We could play the girl apprentice...she never quite got the whole stealth thing that Garrett was trying to teach her, so she compensated by stunning the guards with her revealing clothing.

ShadowMist
14th Jun 2009, 04:00
LOL! We could play the girl apprentice...she never quite got the whole stealth thing that Garrett was trying to teach her, so she compensated by stunning the guards with her revealing clothing.

hee..an interesting idea, yes. Not for the Theif series though. I'd like to play a girl who's as badass as any of her male videogame counterparts. Oh, and not as stalkingly creepy as the fence in stonemarket.

Hypevosa
14th Jun 2009, 04:53
I liked carmen in old quarter alot. *Slavic accent* "I hope you find what you need... the Hammers think I sell lady's undergarments... I don't know what gave them that idea, but it keeps them away."

darkmagicasorseer
8th Aug 2009, 13:54
I'm going to be the annoying voice of reason. I would say no cloak on missions. As any woman would know from wearing a long skirt, the more fabric you have flapping about, the harder it is for you to move. I would list all the trouble you could get into wearing a cloak when you know you're going to have to fight/climb/sneak, but Disney's done a great job already: http://video.ugo.com/player.aspx?articleID=12992

It's just not practical. He does look rather dashing in it, though. :) Actually, when you watch the cutscenes from TDP, he's not wearing a cape. Not that what he is wearing is the height of fashion. Perhaps only in the city hubs, where he would have to conceal his face, what with all those wanted posters about.

I would like some variety in the social classes you see around the city. You had nobles, thugs, merchants, and barmaids, and each of these groups was mostly one gender.

My only other attire idea would be to make the clothing fall and move more naturally. Those skirts in TDS looked like elastic bands! I'm sure that's really hard to animate, but it's something I notice.

Maybe we should include the CAPE as a part of the gameplay. For example Garrett can remove his cape when he needs to be mobile like sprinting or swimming, while wrapping his body with his cloak to stay hidden in small pockets of shadows

Flashart
8th Aug 2009, 15:28
I'd like a cutscene where Garrett is crouched, head down. He lifts his head, you see a glint from his eye. He stands, opens the cloak and draws his bow.
Just so it shows the cloak breaking his silhouette, and blending in with the shadows. Plus, it looks cool.
I think now there is enough of a public "perception" of the character to expect him to wear a cloak, even if it isn't practical. I mean the Lone Ranger wanders around in Daphne Blue, and no one says "Hang on a minute..."

Peter_Smith
8th Aug 2009, 17:38
I haven't read all of this thread, so excuse me if this has already been discussed. By coincidence, I just posted a similar comment in another thread on cloaks (http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=92249).

The assumption is made in the first few posts that Garrett was wearing a cloak in Thief 1 and 2. I think this assumption is incorrect. Garrett is not wearing a cloak in Thief 2 while he is working, as you can see with the scouting orb. He has a black outfit with a tunic and hood, like a cat burglar might wear. Sure, in some cut-scenes Garrett is seen walking outside with a cloak. That is probably because it is cold. I think Garrett does not or should not wear a cloak when thieving. A cloak would slow him down and make him less nimble. To me, it makes no sense show him with a cloak. I'll admit that it would be more dramatic, but I think that a cat burglar would not wear one.

darkmagicasorseer
8th Aug 2009, 18:19
new idea: they are adding cape for garret right? so the cape can be usefell for fall's for example guards are chasing you the only chance is to fall down to the blackally if you press double jump then the cape will be activaded if you fell you wont take any damage the cape can be used for only 5 seconds in the air so its mostly usefell when your almost near the ground. how about this idea?

That would sounded like batman :D

Platinumoxicity
8th Aug 2009, 20:10
The assumption is made in the first few posts that Garrett was wearing a cloak in Thief 1 and 2. I think this assumption is incorrect. Garrett is not wearing a cloak in Thief 2 while he is working, as you can see with the scouting orb. He has a black outfit with a tunic and hood, like a cat burglar might wear. Sure, in some cut-scenes Garrett is seen walking outside with a cloak. That is probably because it is cold. I think Garrett does not or should not wear a cloak when thieving. A cloak would slow him down and make him less nimble. To me, it makes no sense show him with a cloak. I'll admit that it would be more dramatic, but I think that a cat burglar would not wear one.

Garrett does wear a cloak on missions in all the animated cutscenes and intro videos. Also, having a cloak is a logical choice for stealth especially when hiding in shadows because the large hood in addition to the cloak conceals Garrett's human form and makes him blend better to the dark scenery. It also hides any shiny objects that he might be having on his belt. The cloak only wasn't possible to implement because of technical limitations in all games.

Also, in a visual perspective... I think it would be time to finally be able to see Garrett ingame with his cloak. :) I was looking forward to it in TDS because I knew that it wasn't possible in the earlier games because of technical limitations, but it still didn't happen. Today it's very possible, and the cloak would be a very nice addition to the ingame character. ;)

Hamadriyad
8th Aug 2009, 20:26
Garrett does wear a cloak on missions in all the animated cutscenes and intro videos. Also, having a cloak is a logical choice for stealth especially when hiding in shadows because the large hood in addition to the cloak conceals Garrett's human form and makes him blend better to the dark scenery. It also hides any shiny objects that he might be having on his belt. The cloak only wasn't possible to implement because of technical limitations in all games.

Also, in a visual perspective... I think it would be time to finally be able to see Garrett ingame with his cloak. :) I was looking forward to it in TDS because I knew that it wasn't possible in the earlier games because of technical limitations, but it still didn't happen. Today it's very possible, and the cloak would be a very nice addition to the ingame character. ;)

Agreed.
And cloak doesn't slow him down.

Moosemoose
9th Aug 2009, 21:00
Nono, not like DP and MA. Come on, that apparel was ridiculous, thank the Builder we didn't see it more than necessary.
Instead, the devs should cast their eyes upon JohnP's Garrett-garment, and copy-paste it.

Absolutely. The 'new' look of Garrett from John P was amazing. Anyone who hasn't played TDS with John P's texture pack definitely should. It makes a world of difference if you like nice graphics combined with a thief that looks like Garrett.

Ikana
26th Aug 2009, 07:53
I like the Idea of Garrett wearing a long cloak..

The cloak aides in the blending of shadows, plus the ability to wrap yourself in it and crouch down would be useful.

Garrett with form fitting clothing or very light armor (thin leather straps or something) underneath would be optimal, thin gloves for sensitive, precise lockpicking and arrow notching.. And keep the colors the same as T3.. anyone who was ever stupid enough to actually sneak through peoples property for the sake of sneaking (look what thief has done to me!) would know that black clothing stands out like a sore thumb unless the area is pitch black.

Dark greys and browns are best.. Considering Stone and wood are what you will be around most..

The cloak would flow behind Garrett (making slow stealthful travel favorable over a merciless killing machine..) the slower you move, the less the cloak flaps.. And to those that would say it interferes with combat, make combat a must avoid.

imagine running, it flying behind you, and then standing stationary.. and seeing it draped over garrett's shoulders, covering his body, with the hood obscuring his face from light..

I think it's useful for a more stealthy, kind of shadowlike whisper kind of thief..

a skin tight body suit with a tight hood would be more for a catlike dash in with light steps and snag everything and jump out the window undetected kind of thief..

I guess Garrett could be either, but I like the idea of a slow moving shadow silently stalking through corridors.. Maybe make the cloak able to be toggled on and off before a mission start.. This could tie in with inventory weighing you down, (if you wanted to go that route) and you could create an inventory screen, and an equip screen... choosing what gear to take with you from Garrett's home.. jumps could also be slower, without the need to make it an action you must take (I.E holding a button to hold the cloak out) it would be a constant thing.. but that's just my two cents..



on a side note, this was so well written, and USELESS FOXTAB SWITCHED TABS AND WHEN I CAME BACK IT WAS ALL GONE. I uninstalled the addon and my rage has yet to subside.

Yaphy
26th Aug 2009, 15:48
Why not make it 50-50 or something. At the begining of Thief IV you have a cloak and for some reason he cant wear it anymore. Maybe in a dramatic cutscene someone shoots a firearrow into its edge, it catch on fire and Garrett drops his cloak and disapears into the darkness. After that he doesnt have a cloak.

Davehall380
26th Aug 2009, 18:22
If the game was developed in first person we wouldnt have to worry about cloaks . . . ok thats not helpful.

I dont think that Garrett should be animated with a cloak at the expense of framerates and processing speed. For many people not gifted with a beast of a PC its going to be a struggle to play this game anyway - meaning that for low end machines it would have to be scaled down/removed. Now im not saying the game should be developed to cater for poor quality machines - however, adding something that doesnt add to the gameplay/immersion SIGNIFICANTLY should be avoided.

And if a cloak adds to the immersion, covering Garretts arms should be considered higher up on the 'asthetics' list than a cloak (we managed back in the day with TMA for gods sake)

esme
26th Aug 2009, 22:59
...I dont think that Garrett should be animated with a cloak at the expense of framerates and processing speed. For many people not gifted with a beast of a PC its going to be a struggle to play this game anyway - meaning that for low end machines it would have to be scaled down/removed...yeah, I needed a new machine anyway so I made sure it was capable of handling TDS, but making sure it could play TDS significantly affected the specs and also the price, I expect to get at least another five years out of this beast before it starts to flag and I cannot afford a replacement before that

if my current machine cannot support T4 then I won't be buying it until I get a new machine, which may not be for some considerable time

rough specs are laptop format, 2ghz core 2 duo T7200 CPU, 1Gb Ram, Nvidia Geforce Go 7950 GTX, 17" 1680x1050 screen, 100Gb 7200rpm HDD, XP Pro service pack 3

and even though I can support virtualisation I will not be upgrading to Win7 unless it comes with a new machine which I will not be getting for a long time

Secondary
26th Aug 2009, 23:10
lets seeee

i didnt really mind Garrett's outfit in TDS, but the addition of a cloak would have been welcome

and please, nobody even mention assassins creed because altair is the worst assassin ive ever seen, for a person who is supposed to be sneaky he dresses in a flambouyant red and white..whatever

one thing i really hope for is a quiver with arrows you can actually see, in TDP and TMA you couldnt really see your own back, and if Thief 4 is only first person we dont ahve to worry about that at all. but in TDS, you had this little thing pretending to be a quiver on you back, and it had no arrows in it


and for those who fear a cloak or cape would affect framerates, never fear!
you see, an animation is just that, there are thousands of them in any game and the computer can process them with relative ease in either small or large numbers

and if its dependant on physics thats easy to solve, cloth physics works by rapidly calculating the position of each unit of measure on the cloth (the smaller an d more numerous these are the more fluidly and naturally the cloth will appear to move), to reduce processing power simply reduce the area units (in number and size) on the cloaks surface a few times, it wont really look all that much worse but itl take a load off any computers back

you can see by looking at games like the next batman (arkham asylum) that a realtime cape or cloak can work and work very well

now, the real challenge for any game is lighting, the best lighting goes pixel by pixel and is calculated at an unbelievable speed, that was done very well in TDS, i can only imagine how much better it will be in Thief 4

Davehall380
26th Aug 2009, 23:29
It seems that this can of worms was opened by TDS and the third person perspective. Since we now have to look at Garrett whilst playing, he has to look like the images in the videos and artwork (cape et al). The problem with this in real terms is that Garret is never shown with all of his equipment. In any cutscene or video prior to TDS, he either has bow or sword in hand.

Now that we have the third pp, it seems logical to show all of these items. If we show a quiver, why not the sword + scabard, loot bag, all items such as health potions, flashbombs etc, and all hidden beneath a cloak.

Aside from the technical issues, Thief TMA and TDS (both of which portrayed a Garrett figure for the first time as opposed to TDP famous cardboard esq box) portrayed Garrett as id imagine him - a very practical figure.

Ikana
27th Aug 2009, 02:33
lets seeee

i didnt really mind Garrett's outfit in TDS, but the addition of a cloak would have been welcome

and please, nobody even mention assassins creed because altair is the worst assassin ive ever seen, for a person who is supposed to be sneaky he dresses in a flambouyant red and white..whatever

one thing i really hope for is a quiver with arrows you can actually see, in TDP and TMA you couldnt really see your own back, and if Thief 4 is only first person we dont ahve to worry about that at all. but in TDS, you had this little thing pretending to be a quiver on you back, and it had no arrows in it


and for those who fear a cloak or cape would affect framerates, never fear!
you see, an animation is just that, there are thousands of them in any game and the computer can process them with relative ease in either small or large numbers

and if its dependant on physics thats easy to solve, cloth physics works by rapidly calculating the position of each unit of measure on the cloth (the smaller an d more numerous these are the more fluidly and naturally the cloth will appear to move), to reduce processing power simply reduce the area units (in number and size) on the cloaks surface a few times, it wont really look all that much worse but itl take a load off any computers back

you can see by looking at games like the next batman (arkham asylum) that a realtime cape or cloak can work and work very well

now, the real challenge for any game is lighting, the best lighting goes pixel by pixel and is calculated at an unbelievable speed, that was done very well in TDS, i can only imagine how much better it will be in Thief 4


"a flambouyant red and white"
There were no night missions, it would be more stealthy to wear white in a city of white stone and off white dust.. It makes him blend.. but then.. If he dressed in normal clothes instead of trying to be a badass, he wouldn't really need to run.. but oh well.

Good point.

Nthon
22nd Mar 2011, 16:08
Garrett's otfit its very similar in all games. I think that would be great if they make a change to his dress. Maybe change the color? Remove the cap? I dont Know .. I know they are so you can lie hidden in the darkness .. However, a change would not be bad .. What do you guys think?

http://ui28.gamespot.com/635/thiefgarrettdt_2.jpg

http://www.gamesrealcheap.com/images/THIEF2JC.jpg

http://media1.my.88db.com/my_UploadFiles/2008/04/12/EB3A0AFD-838E-49C6-9B7E-F9BA60DEA97C.jpg

:mad2::mad2:

Yaphy
22nd Mar 2011, 17:02
Why would we want to change it? I think it is perfectly fine as it is and as you said "they are so you can lie hidden in the darkness". What's the problem really?

Hypevosa
22nd Mar 2011, 17:05
I think a change would be bad.

Garrett's supposed to look and feel like someone could easily mistake him for a shadow, and like he's a well equipped professional. The hood, the black attire, it's all part of that. Changing anything beyond the color from being black to very dark blue would alter that image. Adding too much more leather and buckles and the like would shift him to more of a dungeon plundering rogue. If he starts wearing more normal clothing he comes off as more of a thug than a shadow.

xDarknessFallsx
22nd Mar 2011, 19:58
--

Vae
22nd Mar 2011, 21:23
How about this...

http://img863.imageshack.us/img863/2639/newgarrett.jpg

Garrett, is that you?...:p

xDarknessFallsx
22nd Mar 2011, 21:32
--

Vae
22nd Mar 2011, 21:36
Well, you know...Garrett is getting a little older, and times have changed...so he's sporting a new look.

AlexOfSpades
22nd Mar 2011, 21:46
No.

I"m usually okay with changes, i'm not traditionalist, but about Garrett's clothes, he really must keep that style.

Cape and hood.

Its his style, no one else.

Teasza
22nd Mar 2011, 22:55
I don't really mind if they deviate from the original a bit - as long as what he wears is logical for a thief - but I think his face MUST stay obscured. I was really annoyed that they made it visible in DS.

xDarknessFallsx
22nd Mar 2011, 23:30
--

acridrose
23rd Mar 2011, 01:35
It's 2011 folks, Garrett needs more mud on his face. Let's face it, everyone's doing it-

http://cdni.wired.co.uk/620x413/s_v/tombraider.jpg

There we go.. we've rebooted Garrett, problem solved.

Nephthys
23rd Mar 2011, 04:45
he looks a little feminine this time around.

Tryst
23rd Mar 2011, 07:27
Garrett without the hood and robe would be like Superman without the cape and spandex outfit.

Imagine superman flying about looking like this:
http://img846.imageshack.us/img846/4792/freakouteyes.gif

It doesn't work and neither would Garrett in any other outfit.

antihero276
24th Mar 2011, 05:45
In my opinion Garrett needs to be brought back to TDP and TMA when it comes to clothing. Give him back his tunic, cloak, bracers, boots, the whole thing. Keep them black instead of the sort of patchy brown his clothing was in TDS, because come on, obviously that goes with his sticking to the shadows. The outfit of the first two games was astoundingly awesome, and truly suited him and who he is. Definitely keep the hood, a given :thumb: :), and use it to obscure most of his face in the cut-scenes like it does in the first two games. Hopefully there'll be no Third person, while were on that lol.

Hypevosa
24th Mar 2011, 05:58
I'm fine with black/blue cloth and dark brown leather. No need to get fancy or use any exotic materials or techniques.

Nephthys
24th Mar 2011, 07:28
even though I'm fully decided that I want the game to be in first person, if it were in third person, I would like to see when attire would change throughout the game. Not from things that you buy or gain to alter the character, but to emphasise plot points. In the older games, Garrett disguised himself as a Hammer novice, but we never really saw him in the get up for that. It would be nice to see that sort of change within the game.

I do not condone third person for the game, but if it's the way it goes, I'd like to see Garrett's back change slightly throughout the game. At least give us that.

Platinumoxicity
24th Mar 2011, 09:34
I did some research on stealth some time ago, and actually the TDP outfit that Garrett has on the cover image is the best of the 3 in the series. The Thief 2 outfit which is completely black, it's not as good as one would think. Black looks even "blacker" in the darkness, and it cuts out your human shape from the shadows, when instead it should blend you with them. The dark blue in TDP is much more suitable for that. The human eye has much more trouble seeing that in low light, and hte color doesn't really matter because the eye can't distinguish colors in low light conditions.

The outfit in TDS (not the beta outfit) is just plain crap. Where is the cape that can conceal all his burglary equipment when he walks past a police patrol? Why is there so much metal and weird ornaments? Where are the sleeves? Garrett is a skinny little bastard and it's cold at night. A thieves outift should be constant-colored, with clothed arms and with nothing that can rattle or shine. The beta outfit we see in the horrible ingame cutscenes is actually better. It's got a T-shirt, a leather vest, and a long-sleeved undershirt. Only problem is that it's also full-black like in Thief 2.

Edit: Now I understand why the outfit in TDS was so ridiculous. Ion Storm couldn't figure out any other way to draw enough attention to Garrett, to justify every police officer in the City killing him on sight. They got rid of the cape so that his burglary stuff would be clearly visible, and they put fancy gay clothes on him so that his style would hurt the eyes of the cops and they'd immediately want to lynch him.

BTW, actually when you really look at it, Garrett doesn't even have the scar on his right eye in any of the cutscenes in any of the games. Even in the beta skin that's used in the ingame cutscenes in TDS, it's nowhere to be found. It only exists in TDS, ingame, in 3rd person mode.

Skaadi
24th Mar 2011, 09:38
Am I the only one who really didn't mind the clothes he was wearing in DS? Granted, it was ugly, but practical. Maybe Garretts due for another makeover.

Nightwynd
24th Mar 2011, 09:42
I did some research on stealth some time ago, and actually the TDP outfit that Garrett has on the cover image is the best of the 3 in the series. The Thief 2 outfit which is completely black, it's not as good as one would think. Black looks even "blacker" in the darkness, and it cuts out your human shape from the shadows, when instead it should blend you with them. The dark blue in TDP is much more suitable for that. The human eye has much more trouble seeing that in low light, and hte color doesn't really matter because the eye can't distinguish colors in low light conditions.

Isn't the TDP outfit the one which is completely black? In TMA his outfit is grey with green bracers. I like the TMA outfit the most. It's also the most realistic for stealth for its coloring.


The outfit in TDS (not the beta outfit) is just plain crap. Where is the cape that can conceal all his burglary equipment when he walks past a police patrol? Why is there so much metal and weird ornaments? Where are the sleeves? Garrett is a skinny little bastard and it's cold at night. A thieves outift should be constant-colored, with clothed arms and with nothing that can rattle or shine.--

Agreed. :D TDS was pretty unimaginative, your average fantasy-rogue attire.

antihero276
25th Mar 2011, 02:13
I did some research on stealth some time ago, and actually the TDP outfit that Garrett has on the cover image is the best of the 3 in the series. The Thief 2 outfit which is completely black, it's not as good as one would think. Black looks even "blacker" in the darkness, and it cuts out your human shape from the shadows, when instead it should blend you with them. The dark blue in TDP is much more suitable for that. The human eye has much more trouble seeing that in low light, and hte color doesn't really matter because the eye can't distinguish colors in low light conditions.

The outfit in TDS (not the beta outfit) is just plain crap. Where is the cape that can conceal all his burglary equipment when he walks past a police patrol? Why is there so much metal and weird ornaments? Where are the sleeves? Garrett is a skinny little bastard and it's cold at night. A thieves outift should be constant-colored, with clothed arms and with nothing that can rattle or shine. The beta outfit we see in the horrible ingame cutscenes is actually better. It's got a T-shirt, a leather vest, and a long-sleeved undershirt. Only problem is that it's also full-black like in Thief 2.

Edit: Now I understand why the outfit in TDS was so ridiculous. Ion Storm couldn't figure out any other way to draw enough attention to Garrett, to justify every police officer in the City killing him on sight. They got rid of the cape so that his burglary stuff would be clearly visible, and they put fancy gay clothes on him so that his style would hurt the eyes of the cops and they'd immediately want to lynch him.

BTW, actually when you really look at it, Garrett doesn't even have the scar on his right eye in any of the cutscenes in any of the games. Even in the beta skin that's used in the ingame cutscenes in TDS, it's nowhere to be found. It only exists in TDS, ingame, in 3rd person mode.

you raise good points, I loved the outfit in the first game, but the second works for me too. Just as long as we can get back to his roots when it comes to attire

Nthon
26th Mar 2011, 20:24
I HATE leather

Fizbop
27th Mar 2011, 19:01
For anyone that may have played L4D "you know what I don't hate. I don't hate vests" Francis

Tryst
27th Mar 2011, 19:15
Agreed. :D TDS was pretty unimaginative, your average fantasy-rogue attire.
True. Also, it wasn't that good for obscuring the shape as someone who hides in the shadows would want. They want to look like a bush or a rock and not like a human in silhouette.

Mind you, say that too loud and some devs will have garrett wearing a scrim net in the next episode.:)

Nightwynd
28th Mar 2011, 09:15
True. Also, it wasn't that good for obscuring the shape as someone who hides in the shadows would want. They want to look like a bush or a rock and not like a human in silhouette.

Mind you, say that too loud and some devs will have garrett wearing a scrim net in the next episode.:)

Trendy. Maybe some sticks under it to break the form? :p

Could be quite impractical while sneaking inside mansion corridors.


What Garrett needs is an outfit that doesn't stick Garrett out screaming, "Look! Here's a rogue! He's gonna be stealthy!" even when he walks the streets of the City.

Hypevosa
28th Mar 2011, 10:00
I'm sure there are plenty of non-thieves who also wear dark robes to keep warm and keep people away. More than anything else, opening the cloak up and showing all his tools would completely betray his purpose. The cloak keeps both him and his equipment from sight.

Nightwynd
28th Mar 2011, 10:08
Something very disturbing here. "Opening the cloak up and showing all his tools."

...Thief - The Exhibitionist Project.

AlexOfSpades
28th Mar 2011, 16:52
The tags in this thread are very uncommon.

I love Garrett's outfit, original and so on, but who else thinks that sometimes he should use a disguise? Mission specific of course.

I loved Thief: Dark Project's mission Undercover.

Hamadriyad
28th Mar 2011, 18:03
I'm sure there are plenty of non-thieves who also wear dark robes to keep warm and keep people away. More than anything else, opening the cloak up and showing all his tools would completely betray his purpose. The cloak keeps both him and his equipment from sight.

I agree. The problem is not Garrett's outfit, is AI. I hope they fix that so they don't scream like "help mee! There is a thief here!" when I walk on the street. But I guess the cloak couldn't hide his all equipment. Because I remember screams like that: "Help mee, there is a strange man her, he has a sword."


Something very disturbing here. "Opening the cloak up and showing all his tools."

...Thief - The Exhibitionist Project.
:D

Platinumoxicity
29th Mar 2011, 09:19
Isn't the TDP outfit the one which is completely black? In TMA his outfit is grey with green bracers. I like the TMA outfit the most. It's also the most realistic for stealth for its coloring.

I forgot to respond to this. In TDP Garrett wore a dark blue or grey shirt, black leather vest, and a dark blue hooded cloak on top of it. His bracers were standard brown leather, and he wore brown leather fingerless gloves. In TMA he wore a black shirt and the same black leather vest, but he wore a full-black hooded cloak on top of that. He had cadmium green bracers and black fingerless gloves. The TDP cloak is actually better for stealth because of it's coloring.

Rieknor
3rd Apr 2011, 03:12
I believe that in TMA when you see through the scouting orb Garret has the same clothes he has in TDS but still I dont like it very much. I love the dark cloak. But he could also wear something like the vestiment in TMA.

AlexOfSpades
3rd Apr 2011, 07:24
Wait, Garrett's suit has nipples??

massimilianogoi
3rd Apr 2011, 08:02
Someone, in my new technologies (http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=117246) thread, has already pointed out this new technology: Apex.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKzNoEuXJEM

Nightwynd
7th Apr 2011, 08:23
I forgot to respond to this. In TDP Garrett wore a dark blue or grey shirt, black leather vest, and a dark blue hooded cloak on top of it. His bracers were standard brown leather, and he wore brown leather fingerless gloves. In TMA he wore a black shirt and the same black leather vest, but he wore a full-black hooded cloak on top of that. He had cadmium green bracers and black fingerless gloves. The TDP cloak is actually better for stealth because of it's coloring.

Are you referring to box-art and cutscenes, or in-game? I meant the in-game one:



http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i106/jtr7/GarrettT2Model.jpg

My favorite one. :)
Thanks for upping the pic(s), jtr! :thumb:

Platinumoxicity
7th Apr 2011, 09:31
Are you referring to box-art and cutscenes, or in-game? I meant the in-game one:

I don't consider the ingame models of Garrett as the real deal. In cutscenes and videos you always see him wear the cloak and stuff. The ingame model of Thief 2 doesn't even have any animations on it. It just slides around like the "player box" in TDP. I trust the 99,9% of the game over the one instance when you happen to look at yourself with the scouting orb. :)

That reminds me. In TDS, the only instance where Garrett has the ridiculous t-shirt and armor, the glowing eye and the stupid cheesy scar, is ingame in 3rd person mode. In cutscenes he's back to his normal look. Even in the pre-rendered ingame cutscenes he looks normal. Again, I do trust the rest of the game over something that shouldn't exist int he first place.

Hamadriyad
7th Apr 2011, 10:09
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i106/jtr7/GarrettHandsTheEyeOver.jpg


He always looks like muscled and very huge guy to me in that shot.

Hamadriyad
7th Apr 2011, 10:34
I think so, I didn't think the armor before. I wonder why the Eye sticks a scepter -or something like that- since it was not like that when we stole it?

Platinumoxicity
7th Apr 2011, 11:04
I wonder why the Eye sticks a scepter -or something like that- since it was not like that when we stole it?

It's always portrayed like that outside it's ingame appearance. In the Thieves Holiday -christmas FM the Eye is portrayed properly, with the stick. I don't know why they decided to make it look different ingame. Even in TDS.

Hamadriyad
7th Apr 2011, 14:01
I didn't know that, thanks for the explanation.


It's always portrayed like that outside it's ingame appearance. In the Thieves Holiday -christmas FM the Eye is portrayed properly, with the stick.
I don't remember the Eye in that game. I couldn't find all ways to finish it though. Probably that's why I didn't see the Eye.

Sneaking human
7th Apr 2011, 14:43
Someone, in my new technologies (http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=117246) thread, has already pointed out this new technology: Apex.

As I know, this cloth simulation included in Deus Ex 3 for main character and we can hope - girls in Thief 4 will be walk like in real dresses, it's great for flags on the wind.
good example http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPJhkkbR2Ws&feature=player_detailpage
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=UY_kTMFpQ4E

sorry for my bad english

Platinumoxicity
7th Apr 2011, 15:49
I don't remember the Eye in that game. I couldn't find all ways to finish it though. Probably that's why I didn't see the Eye.

You've probably played an older version of the mission. In the newest version The Eye is on the livingroom table. It's actually the first guest to arrive to Garrett's holiday festivities when you think about it. :D

Hamadriyad
7th Apr 2011, 20:40
Hehheh, yes.:D I will look for the new version of the game. That is a good mission indeed, relaxing.

Platinumoxicity
7th Apr 2011, 21:22
Hehheh, yes.:D I will look for the new version of the game. That is a good mission indeed, relaxing.

Yeah, it's quite a "treasure" hunt. And it's got some nearly impossible mantling parts. You really need to have played for at least 5 years so that you know exactly what the limits and requirements of mantling are.

Vae
13th Apr 2011, 08:49
Spambot reported.

Hamadriyad
28th Apr 2011, 09:42
I always wonder where he hides his bow and quiver? If they are under his cape, it is pretty hard to use them fast when he needs them, -and how can he hide the bow under the cape?- But, If they are nor under the cape, then it would be hard to hide in the shadows I think. And when you walk on the streets, it causes people to be afraid of you. - Actually it always looks stupid to me how they are screaming everyone when see me "heelp ,thieef!" But may be bow is the reason. Though I don't think so.-

Hamadriyad
28th Apr 2011, 09:55
For potions or other gears, I agree. But for bow and quiver, I don't remember any mission that they are gone.Water arrows are always needed. And I don't remember a mission that people don't react him negatively. -I don't mean there are not, just I don't remember.- except Undercover, and Bafford's Manor -I guess.-

Hamadriyad
28th Apr 2011, 10:54
I said they were gone in the art, sometimes.
Oh sorry, I guess I missed that. :flowers:


The missions, on the other hand, show various reactions or non-reactions to his appearance and weaponry.
Reactions are more often. :)

ChaosLad
4th Nov 2011, 04:55
yeah a cloak from the cutscenes would be awesome. i didnt mind the bare arms too much tbh but a steampunk theme would be cool :)

AnthonFTM
31st Mar 2012, 02:42
He should change his outfit so guards cant recognize him so fast, maybe dress up as a guard or a civilian, that way there would be a mission without hiding, something fresh to the series..

Morgan Wight
31st Mar 2012, 03:41
Perhaps a sequined ball gown?

Izztyrr
31st Mar 2012, 04:43
Or maybe how could dress as a monk and blend in with a group of them walking down the street. That would be new. Wouldn't it?

Lady_Of_The_Vine
31st Mar 2012, 10:48
Perhaps a sequined ball gown?

Hope the colour suits him! :D

Psychomorph
6th Mar 2013, 22:50
In the released media the clothing looks very Victorian. I know that it's a new time and era in The City, but the prominently medieval clothing in Thief, with the medieval/Victorian architectural background was really awesome!
It's not just nostalgia on my part, but that is what I consciously love about Thief. What I mean is that it is an important visual design element in Thief and the fact that Thief couldn't really decide whether it is medieval or Victorian is what made it unique and if balance shifts too much to one side or the other, than it makes the whole concept weaker. Deadly shadows kinda did this, but a shift toward medieval is in my opinion less drastic than a shift toward Victorian dominance.
If a new era is supposed to be portrayed, than an early renaissance like fashion style would be the better choice, because it still has a somewhat medieval like flair to it.

Don't oversaturate the Victorian design please, keep it well mixed.

Chilliwack
6th Mar 2013, 23:34
I noticed that myself. Long-tailed coats, lacy bodices, porcelain-like masks... I REALLY wish I didn't see the similarities between this and another stealth-ish game that came out in 2012.

The guards themselves don't seem to be too different though, with their steel helmets and body armor.

I miss the Hammers.

Lady_Of_The_Vine
6th Mar 2013, 23:51
I really love everything Steampunk, and clothing/fashion is no exception. :cool:

Nephthys
7th Mar 2013, 01:34
I do think they struck an interesting mix of historical periods, but I'm not sure it was intentional from the beginning :P I feel like the games progressed from classic fantasy appearance to more steampunk/victorian. But any city old enough will show the signs of older times, so hopefully they will remember that as well.

massimilianogoi
7th Mar 2013, 01:39
Seen the new pics. I don't like the clothes, too modern. In TDS the greatest part of the males weared skirts: Keepers, nobles, artisans, bartenders and merchants. Women too weared skirts, all of them except the servants in T1 and the Mechanists in T2.

This is the first EM's apparent error: the clothes were more referred to the middle age, while this new Thief has the clothes referring to the 1800 age.

MasterTaffer
7th Mar 2013, 02:52
The males wore tunics, not skirts. There is a bit of a difference.

Also, I'm not all that worried about the change in clothing aesthetics from the previous games. This is EM's interpretation of the City, much like the renaissance look in DE:HR. I didn't want EM to just copy Thief's look but rather make it their own. You can get a much richer aesthetic if you're not flat out copying what the people before you did.

xDarknessFallsx
7th Mar 2013, 03:59
I agree that TNT shouldn't stick too much with one period. Some of the fashion seems too modern for my Thief preference. The guy with a buzz cut on sides of head, as one example, seems like he's wearing a German soldier uniform from the WWII era. Not sure if it is, but that's the vibe I get from it. The outfits don't seem as surreal and timeless as I'd prefer. I think the fashion style on some NPCs is help add to the Dishonored vibe/comparisons. It's hard to fully make out, but I like the guy's outfit who is sweeping in the jewerly shop or whatever.

Ikana
7th Mar 2013, 04:39
I'm just gonna throw a lit match into a pile of dynamite and say that this reeks of a Dishonored influenced dev team. I could be wrong, i'm not trying to insult EM, I'm just saying I'm seeing some pretty heavy similarities here, and this is an entirely subjective opinion mind you. The plague gripping the city, the Victorian themed setting, the evil Lord Regent Hiram Burrows Baron, it's not necessarily a bad thing, if they were influenced by the game, just something that I think I picked up on.

I really wish they wouldn't waste an opportunity to have a good old fashioned steampunk setting. I'm gonna miss that uneasy relationship that magic and industrialization had, and the degeneracy of life the common folk lived in. But it may all be very cool. I will say this though, those rooms Garrett is sneaking around in look really brightly lit. and not lit with dim magic/sputtering fire lanterns lit either, everything just looks really modern, and comfortable, corrupt maybe, but not traditionally crude. I think I may just be afraid of change.

Morgan Wight
7th Mar 2013, 04:42
The males wore tunics, not skirts. There is a bit of a difference.

Also, I'm not all that worried about the change in clothing aesthetics from the previous games. This is EM's interpretation of the City, much like the renaissance look in DE:HR. I didn't want EM to just copy Thief's look but rather make it their own. You can get a much richer aesthetic if you're not flat out copying what the people before you did.

I don't think sticking with a stronger medieval flavor constitutes copying. You're conflating the historical time period drawn upon in creating the aesthetic for the aesthetic itself; they could have easily put their own spin on the medieval setting without slavishly mimicking the original if they wanted to.

MasterTaffer
7th Mar 2013, 04:54
I don't think sticking with a stronger medieval flavor constitutes copying. You're conflating the historical time period drawn upon in creating the aesthetic for the aesthetic itself; they could have easily put their own spin on the medieval setting without slavishly mimicking the original if they wanted to.

The problem with that is that past Thief games were not a strictly medieval setting. It was an amalgam of medieval, Victorian, renaissance, and steampunk aesthetics. This Thief is choosing to focus more on the Victorian setting and EM is making their designs their own rather than choosing to be hamstrung by what came before. I respect that and wish more developers of franchises has the fortitude to put their own stamp on a brand and world. It breathes variety into the setting.

Morgan Wight
7th Mar 2013, 05:38
Well of course it's an amalgam, it's kinda hard to miss that! The context of the conversation was the shift from chiefly medieval to chiefly Victorian inspired dress, though. Anyways, the freshness is really in the execution, not in specific historical influences or their ratios to one another. To suggest that jettisoning the medieval vibe in favor of a less balanced Victorian setting was necessary in order to stay fresh is preposterously overdrawn, and doesn't really indicate much confidence in their artists.

Also, doesn't pretty much every developer who gets signed on for a reboot demonstrate that same fortitude you describe? Really, the best way for a developer to make something their own would probably be to make something of their own.

massimilianogoi
7th Mar 2013, 05:48
The problem with that is that past Thief games were not a strictly medieval setting. It was an amalgam of medieval, Victorian, renaissance, and steampunk aesthetics.

Yes, but the clothing was NEVER 800-like, except maybe for the cops helmets in Thief 2.

One thing is creating from scratch a new stealth game, another one is reprising a franchise and changing one of the fundamental aspects. It's like the bands changing their frontman, who gave them success, and keeping the same name. It's a fail.

MasterTaffer
7th Mar 2013, 05:50
Well of course it's an amalgam, it's kinda hard to miss that! The context of the conversation was the shift from chiefly medieval to chiefly Victorian inspired dress, though. Anyways, the freshness is really in the execution, not in specific historical influences or their ratios to one another. To suggest that jettisoning the medieval vibe in favor of a less balanced Victorian setting was necessary in order to stay fresh is preposterously overdrawn, and doesn't really indicate much confidence in their artists.

Also, doesn't pretty much every developer who gets signed on for a reboot demonstrate that same fortitude you describe? Really, the best way for a developer to make something their own would probably be to make something of their own.

My claim isn't that it's necessary to stay fresh. My claim is that change in the name of artistic identity is fine. At the end of the day, this is EM's game. It's the result of their sweat, labor, and imagination. When it's complete, they'll send it out into the world to be judged and (hopefully) enjoyed. If you don't like the artistic direction, don't buy the game.

In all honesty, no matter what a new developer does in a franchise there is going to be a section of the fan base that will react with vitriol, hyperbole, and will just act mean spirited and with indignity. There’s going to be claims of “dumbing down” and being “slapped in the face” no matter what the changes are, simply by the merit that they are changes. A quick glimpse around here after one day will show that assessment is on the mark.

So honestly, if you don't want change don't ask for sequels. If they happen and you don't support the changes happening, don't buy the game. It's just as simple as that.

MasterTaffer
7th Mar 2013, 05:55
Yes, but the clothing was NEVER 800-like, except maybe for the cops helmets in Thief 2.

One thing is creating from scratch a new stealth game, another one is reprising a franchise and changing one of the fundamental aspects. It's like the bands changing their frontman, who gave them success, and keeping the same name. It's a fail.

So Looking Glass Studios pulling back the enemy variety and medieval design of Thief 1 in favor of predominantly human enemies and a renaissance aesthetic in Thief 2 doesn't bug you, but EM choosing a Victorian vibe for their entry does?

The aesthetic of Thief has fluctuated game to game. This is a change that, if nothing else, the fan base should have been prepared for. It really makes me suspect that a lot of people are simply complaining about change for the sake of complaining about change.

massimilianogoi
7th Mar 2013, 07:12
So Looking Glass Studios pulling back the enemy variety and medieval design of Thief 1 in favor of predominantly human enemies and a renaissance aesthetic in Thief 2 doesn't bug you, but EM choosing a Victorian vibe for their entry does?

The aesthetic of Thief has fluctuated game to game. This is a change that, if nothing else, the fan base should have been prepared for. It really makes me suspect that a lot of people are simply complaining about change for the sake of complaining about change.

I'd like having people dressed as in Thief 3, not as in Dishonored...

MasterTaffer
7th Mar 2013, 07:14
I'd like having people dressed as in Thief 3, not as in Dishonored...

Well I like the authoritative look of the City Watch in the screens, so I suppose I cancel you out.

TheYouthCounselor
7th Mar 2013, 09:47
I like how everything looks but I also think that it's too Victorian and not medieval enough for a Thief game.

Loneck
7th Mar 2013, 10:28
I like medieval look of Thief more then this new look. I think it is too late to complain. They will not change it. Will see, maybe there are some medieval environments, but I doubt it.

Platinumoxicity
7th Mar 2013, 11:42
I like medieval look of Thief more then this new look. I think it is too late to complain. They will not change it. Will see, maybe there are some medieval environments, but I doubt it.

The City and street screenshots/artwork showed the medieval style. I don't know how you managed to ignore that. The problem with TDS was that it basically only had that style, whereas in Thief 2 there were also many victorian era environments.

Loneck
7th Mar 2013, 12:02
The City and street screenshots/artwork showed the medieval style. I don't know how you managed to ignore that. The problem with TDS was that it basically only had that style, whereas in Thief 2 there were also many victorian era environments.

In that case I have probably different idea about medieval than you. Clothing of the people in the game is not medieval to me. Architecture can be medieval. I am not expert on achitecture history.

MasterTaffer
7th Mar 2013, 12:12
In that case I have probably different idea about medieval than you. Clothing of the people in the game is not medieval for me. Architecture probably is. I am not expert on achitecture history.

The medieval period of history was from 400 A.D. to 1400 A.D. Clothing styles changed a lot in that time in Europe, so it's very hard to actually define "medieval clothing" as a single style. Honestly much of the guard and bystander attire in the Thief series is all ove rthe map; many of it is probably more inspired by the renaissance era than you would be led to believe.

contrarian
7th Mar 2013, 12:53
This new look will add much more realism and more immersion. I like the new direction. I see nothing but good things if Garrett is plunked down in 1850 Britain and EM seeks to faithfully recreate the look, feel, and all the trappings of that era.

As it seems to me, Thief 4 is NOT a direct sequel...so this new look makes complete sense.

Now, to go along with this new setting, a number of things had to be done:

Magic must be eliminated.
Fantastical creatures are gone (burricks, zombies, craymen, wizards)...thankfully
The rope arrow is obsolete (as it must be)
The Steampunk look is (thankfully) out of style

Will we see a single shot pistol on Garrett's hip? I wouldn't object.

massimilianogoi
13th Mar 2013, 07:27
There has been a ton of information popping up recently about Square Enix’s upcoming Thief game. When the screenshots were released, many said that the game looks very similar to Arkane’s stellar steampunk stealth game—Dishonored. According to GameInformer, the game’s Director Nicolas Cantin and Producer Stephane Roy have said that Thief is going to be “different” from what Dishonored was.

Yes, but YOU HAVE MADE THE SAME CLOTHES!!

Compare:


http://www.image-share.com/upload/2116/167.jpg
http://www.image-share.com/upload/2116/168.jpg
http://www.image-share.com/upload/2116/169.jpg

VS
http://www.image-share.com/upload/2116/170.jpg
http://www.image-share.com/upload/2116/172.jpg

-_- http://forums.eidosgames.com/images/icons/icon13.gif


It will also add a major new mechanic called Focus. It works like Detective Mode did in the Batman: Arkham games and highlights scalable walls, extinguishable lights and fingerprints that can be analysed. It also works as a sort of Bullet Time, as you can use it to slow down time while pickpocketing.

I really hope this is optional, and that it doesn't invades the game.

Psychomorph
13th Mar 2013, 19:03
The medieval period of history was from 400 A.D. to 1400 A.D. Clothing styles changed a lot in that time in Europe, so it's very hard to actually define "medieval clothing" as a single style.

When people speak about middle ages they usually refer to the period most known from the media, the High Middle Ages (full plate armoured knights).
Thief's fashion style was a mixture of hight medieval and late medieval (early Renaissance) styles. The nobles in Thief usually had that late medieval / early Renaissance like look (the large collars, tight pants), while the simpler folks were styled more like in the high middle ages (hoodies, wider clothing, leather pants). I love that and don't want to see some Napoleon era style clothing in Thief. :(

Nephthys
13th Mar 2013, 20:14
I think that they hit a perfect mark where the style defined the game, and the style was so scattered and unique that you never felt like it was a certain time period in human history.
There was steampunk-esque mechanics and technology, but people were dressed in middle ages attire. There were torches and gas lamps, electricity and magic, all of which conflict when we think of realistic history and myths.
It was such a great mix of ideas that it defined itself, and I think that that was a really important part of the story.

Psychomorph
13th Mar 2013, 20:25
I agree Nephthys, but it was never just random. Things were within some sort of context still. Clothing was largely medieval/renaissance. Architecture span from the later medieval till Victorian. Technology had a 19th century touch.
You do not want to see a randomized mix with one guy wearing jeans and the other a cloak.

As I said earlier, I understand that some time has passed and fashion develops and the guys in the brothel seem to be nobles and wearing the most recent piece of garment, but please don't go over board and keep it within the context of the original (defining) design.

Ah well, we don't exactly know things at this point, I didn't mean to make more out of it, let's just wait and see, but I have to say that I thought the clothes in the brothel screenshots just didn't fit.

:hmm:

Lady_Of_The_Vine
13th Mar 2013, 20:58
In before MT. :naughty:


According to the Game Informer article, EM actually commissioned some New York fashion designers to make a real life version of Garrett's outfit to ensure it would be quiet in movement. Looks can be decieving like that.

Thanks MT. :thumb:

MasterTaffer
13th Mar 2013, 21:02
I really don't think the guards in the screenshots are all that far removed from the City Watch in Thief 2.


http://wizzywizzyweb.gmgcdn.com/media/products/thief-ii-metal-age/screenshots/large-2-640x350.jpg

Nephthys
13th Mar 2013, 21:29
I suppose it's also safe to say that the older games, particularly the first two, simply did not have the ability to make very detailed models with elaborate clothes, so it was probably easier to throw on some armor and simple pants, or a plain dress, rather than really hype up the styles.


I really don't think the guards in the screenshots are all that far removed from the City Watch in Thief 2.


http://wizzywizzyweb.gmgcdn.com/media/products/thief-ii-metal-age/screenshots/large-2-640x350.jpg

I agree with you there!

Lady_Of_The_Vine
13th Mar 2013, 21:34
Also agree.
They just look better fed now. :D

MasterTaffer
13th Mar 2013, 21:41
Also agree.
They just look better fed now. :D

And their helmets seem to fit better.

That or Garrett bopped that guard in the past with a blackjack and he got a Looney Toons-esque lump on his head that never went away.

janiashvili
16th Mar 2013, 09:03
I believe this is style what original 2 games were intended to have: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-x_dGiIXQUxs/T24PCULSYgI/AAAAAAAACZ4/U_JNkJBWYrg/s1600/jan+van+eyck+arnolfini+wedding+portrait.jpg

Platinumoxicity
16th Mar 2013, 09:41
I really don't think the guards in the screenshots are all that far removed from the City Watch in Thief 2.


http://wizzywizzyweb.gmgcdn.com/media/products/thief-ii-metal-age/screenshots/large-2-640x350.jpg

http://a1.vsoh.com/t1t4.jpg

Though I do think it's pretty weird how Thief never wants to stick to a certain design. First, the City watch was generic guards, the same one who guarded Bafford's. Next there was Truart's corrupt watch, who actually looked like police. Then there was the TDS watch who in my opinion looked just as generic as the original ones. No personality to them, with their boring brown uniforms and no helmets. I think the Baron's watch in T4 is a step in the right direction by making them look more professional, but I just wish they would have gone back to the "bluecoats" design. At least with the color choices. Not every game needs to have the bad guys painted red.

Hypevosa
16th Mar 2013, 18:43
http://a1.vsoh.com/t1t4.jpg

Though I do think it's pretty weird how Thief never wants to stick to a certain design. First, the City watch was generic guards, the same one who guarded Bafford's. Next there was Truart's corrupt watch, who actually looked like police. Then there was the TDS watch who in my opinion looked just as generic as the original ones. No personality to them, with their boring brown uniforms and no helmets. I think the Baron's watch in T4 is a step in the right direction by making them look more professional, but I just wish they would have gone back to the "bluecoats" design. At least with the color choices. Not every game needs to have the bad guys painted red.

If I were to set up a police force, they'd wear red- makes it harder for the enemy to see any blood.

Hecateus
16th Mar 2013, 19:26
Ah Drapery...I do no miss thee in video games, as you have rarely been present in them.... Sadly.

Sure would be nice if the new Garret had a nice flowing cloak instead of the ratty cape.

xDarknessFallsx
16th Mar 2013, 19:54
I enjoy the variety of guards and characters in Thief and hope T4 adopts the past and adds some. The T4 guards' attire so far looks a little dark, drab and monotone compared to the colorized garments we saw in past games.

However, I know we're only seeing a narrow glimpse of T4 via the released screenshots. Hopefully, when more is revealed or when we play the game, a lot of variety in everything opens up. Dishonored was, sadly, pretty flat and similar throughout.

Hecateus
17th Mar 2013, 04:32
Re Dishonored....Everyone wore pants. Even AC II's oddly stiff skirts would be an improvement.

xAcerbusx
17th Mar 2013, 04:59
Ah Drapery...I do no miss thee in video games, as you have rarely been present in them.... Sadly.

Sure would be nice if the new Garret had a nice flowing cloak instead of the ratty cape.

I assume it's some sort of technical limitation (seems like being able to animate a cape would have factored into the disastrous decision to be 'Next-Gen Exclusive', but I digress) but it's weird, because if games like The Force Unleashed can get Darth Vader's cape right, you'd think a Triple-A developer like EM wouldn't be far behind.

Chilliwack
17th Mar 2013, 08:16
I assume it's some sort of technical limitation (seems like being able to animate a cape would have factored into the disastrous decision to be 'Next-Gen Exclusive', but I digress) but it's weird, because even if games like The Force Unleashed can get Darth Vader's cape right, you'd think a Triple-A developer like EM wouldn't be far behind.

The Batman: Arkham games had no trouble with Batman's cape. And that thing flowed absolutely beautifully, even when it was all shredded up. Did those games use the Unreal engine?

Platinumoxicity
17th Mar 2013, 11:36
I assume it's some sort of technical limitation (seems like being able to animate a cape would have factored into the disastrous decision to be 'Next-Gen Exclusive', but I digress) but it's weird, because even if games like The Force Unleashed can get Darth Vader's cape right, you'd think a Triple-A developer like EM wouldn't be far behind.

Modders have already extracted some code from Skyrim's Dawnguard expansion and created flowing fabric-physics cloaks as a fanmade mod for Skyrim. EM gets paid to design Garrett for a game, no cloak. Fans do stuff for free, cloaks for everyone. Maybe they don't want to have a cloak because "It might not look perfect at all times, plus it could get messed up all over the character model if the player goofs around." -But wait. Assassin's Creed 2 has a mechanic where the character automatically uses his hand to adjust the cloak if it goes all over the place.

MikeHammer
19th Mar 2013, 09:09
Altho' the thief clothes look cool, they also look too much.
It would take forever to get into such an outfit with so many strings and things and they don't exactly blend in when you are in a public space without giving away your profession.
Maybe Garrett needs a closet with more clothing choices?

If I were a master thief I think it would be essential to become a master of disguise as well.

Also I think his new bow is ridiculous looking... way too over done. Too uber!

However.... having said all that, I happy that Thief 4 looks like it will happen at last!

But hurry up Eidos - I'm 72 and will probably drop dead or be too arthritic to play the game by 2014.

Noob King
19th Mar 2013, 11:49
I agree with you. The bow is okay, but the clothes ... I liked it better before, simple but enough. Black robes and leather gloves. Also, you should add a bit of color to his face, it is true, he looks less goth, now he looks a bit emo... Just add some color to his skin so he's not a vampire. Otherwise I'm happy with the looks of the game. Just keep it dark and (if I may) taffy. You want a new game, but don't destroy it's identity.

Lady_Of_The_Vine
22nd Mar 2013, 16:45
FYI:

Thief outfit display at PAX East.

http://i1087.photobucket.com/albums/j472/Twizted_Viewz/outfit.jpg

http://kotaku.com/thief/

janiashvili
22nd Mar 2013, 18:22
If they'll have that cloth - then it'll look just not worse than it was in TDS...

Except his mask. It isn't needed

scumm
22nd Mar 2013, 18:38
FYI:

Thief outfit display at PAX East.


http://kotaku.com/thief/

Very cool! Thanks for sharing.

It looks like a mix between the Bat-suit and Nightingale armor from Skryim.

Also, I notice a dagger sheath on the right leg. Looks like he'll be sporting a dagger and not a sword (which honestly, I think makes more sense!). I'm still a bit dismayed at the choice to reduce the cape size. It's a lot less practical for concealment now and more practical for... I don't know, getting caught in things?

Edit: Wait, I get it now. It's a lot more practical for blowing in the wind and looking bad ass while Garrett hangs off of a ledge by one hand and shoots his bow with the other!

...Sorry, too sardonic. :)

Big question is though: Where can I get one?

Hamadriyad
22nd Mar 2013, 18:40
If they'll have that cloth - then it'll look just not worse than it was in TDS...

Except his mask. It isn't needed
Do you have maskfobia or something? Because I think, you are overreacting.

Psychomorph
22nd Mar 2013, 21:06
Do you have maskfobia or something? Because I think, you are overreacting.

janiashvili makes perfect sense. The first Thief game had no mask. That means a mask on Garrett's face will unmake the universe. Mark my words.

Hamadriyad
22nd Mar 2013, 21:20
So mask is a blasphemy, eh? Sorry but I think you (I mean you two) don't know why you are against it. You don't like it, that's all. There is no real reason behind it.

Psychomorph
22nd Mar 2013, 21:58
Sigh... irony din't come through.

Lady_Of_The_Vine
22nd Mar 2013, 23:15
Obviously cannot verify this information, but just seen this post on kotaku by member, Ghost621, which may be of interest:



I read an interesting article on Garrett's new outfit.

Apparently they designed the leather outfit and tested it, making sure that it would actually permit the wearer to move more quietly. It does!

They said that they aren't straying from the original Thief's "combat" style. Garrett might be able to take one or two guards, but three or four? That won't be the best idea. You will still have specialized arrows (they mentioned dry ice arrows for putting out fires) and the blackjack, and Garrett still goes by his saying, "I'm a thief, not a murderer."

MasterTaffer
22nd Mar 2013, 23:19
Obviously cannot verify this information, but just seen this post on kotaku by member, Ghost621, which may be of interest:

Wish I could promote that post!

Psychomorph
23rd Mar 2013, 01:13
Obviously cannot verify this information, but just seen this post on kotaku by member, Ghost621, which may be of interest:

Would be great if that was the case. Now I suddenly worry about EM not making enough sales with Thief. Maybe they should turn it into something worse after all?

Greybo
23rd Mar 2013, 02:19
I initially thought that was the Nightingale armour from Skyrim but my eyes just deceive me. :D

If the source is true then its quite interesting EM tested it to see if the costume moves quietly, but I'm pretty sure if leather is soft enough it's not actually that noisy/squeaky?


Would be great if that was the case. Now I suddenly worry about EM not making enough sales with Thief. Maybe they should turn it into something worse after all?

That's a bit negative? Not much has been revealed yet but it's already bad enough?

MasterTaffer
23rd Mar 2013, 02:21
I initially thought that was the Nightingale armour from Skyrim but my eyes just deceive me. :D

If the source is true then its quite interesting EM tested it to see if the costume moves quietly, but I'm pretty sure if leather is soft enough it's not actually that noisy/squeaky?

The Game Informer article stated they created the real world costume to ensure it moved quietly. Adam (our community manager) confirmed they did this earlier, as well.

Greybo
23rd Mar 2013, 02:32
The Game Informer article stated they created the real world costume to ensure it moved quietly. Adam (our community manager) confirmed they did this earlier, as well.

Ah, yes of course! I remember reading they designed the costume but it must've escaped me they designed it specifically to move quietly.

Now, sounds silly but I'm quite interested in Garett's footwear. While they look like boots they also look like they're made for making climbing easier?

MasterTaffer
23rd Mar 2013, 02:36
Ah, yes of course! I remember reading they designed the costume but it must've escaped me they designed it specifically to move quietly.

Now, sounds silly but I'm quite interested in Garett's footwear. While they look like boots they also look like they're made for making climbing easier?

I imagine they are designed in a similar fashion to the shoes free runners tend to wear; designed to give flexibility and grip to the foot while protecting the soles of the feet.

Greybo
23rd Mar 2013, 02:50
I imagine they are designed in a similar fashion to the shoes free runners tend to wear; designed to give flexibility and grip to the foot while protecting the soles of the feet.

Hm, yes. Whether its for aesthetic reasons or practicality, I like the design of the brown parts on the foot of his boots. Makes me think the material is different in order to give him grip and support, especially concerning the most important parts of his feet. Maybe even enhance his stealth somewhat.

Chilliwack
23rd Mar 2013, 08:09
It is logical that Garrett would have quiet shoes... but from a gameplay standpoint, the tap shoes provided good player feedback, letting them know if they were making too much noise, or moving to fast. If his shoes are silenced, how will we know if we can be heard or not? If Garrett is always silent to US, then the stealth mechanics become based purely around sight, not sound. If his shoes aren't noisy, how will sound play a role in Garrett's stealth?

xDarknessFallsx
23rd Mar 2013, 09:17
Obviously cannot verify this information, but just seen this post on kotaku by member, Ghost621, which may be of interest:
I'm not sure I'm seeing anything new there. Looks like they're combining some info from the GameInformer article and what devs have said in the video, and putting it into one post.

Hecateus
23rd Mar 2013, 17:30
I am unhappy with all that reflective leather. Black wool makes more sense, especially if one needs to go swimming. A much bigger black cloak to disrupt the human shape would help when hiding. Needs plenty of pockets too...where does he hide the loot??? His Pants?

Lady_Of_The_Vine
25th Mar 2013, 10:45
..where does he hide the loot??? His Pants?

Now that must remain a secret. :naughty:

Platinumoxicity
25th Mar 2013, 11:04
where does he hide the loot??? His Pants?

Modern military shooters abandoned the player's ability to carry 10 weapons because it's unrealistic, while simultaneously adding infinite health for reasons that even god wouldn't be able to figure out. We've seen the screenshot of Garrett picking up and examining the loot item. Could be that for the sake of "realism" -Thief 4 has abandoned the idea of there being a lot of low value loot spread all over the map for players to find, in exchange for a few special loot items that are all individually modeled and have their own specific "examination" animation. And that would still not make sense because Garrett would still not physically have the space to haul all that junk, unless the amount of loot is somewhere between none and two. Kinda like how Conviction in its attempt to eliminate the hud, replaced the light meter with a monochrome filter, and failing to remove any other hud elements, defeating the purpose of the change entirely, and to the detriment of all visual appeal, ironically in a game with a crazy amount of unnecessary, expensive visual detail.

Though the examination and unique special loot would be fine if the devs would have gone to great lengths to still have a lot of loot. That would just mean more unique items. But wait, it wouldn't be fine. It would be unnecessary amount of extra effort expended on excessive detail, making the development more expensive, thus warranting more compromises in the formula to accommondate more people who don't like Thief.

MarrowMonkey
25th Mar 2013, 11:27
Kinda like how Conviction in its attempt to eliminate the hud, replaced the light meter with a monochrome filter, and failing to remove any other hud elements, defeating the purpose of the change entirely, and to the detriment of all visual appeal, ironically in a game with a crazy amount of unnecessary, expensive visual detail.Yes, that was an really odd choice, I imagine most players ended up seeing most of the game in grayscale.

massimilianogoi
25th Mar 2013, 15:21
Question for all: are you happy of the people's outfit? Personally I find it out of theme, especially those at the Blossom House (the brothel).

Lady_Of_The_Vine
25th Mar 2013, 15:37
If you use lime green, people will become confused. :D
Can't you choose another colour? :p

MasterTaffer
25th Mar 2013, 18:21
If you use lime green, people will become confused. :D
Can't you choose another colour? :p

I'm seeing double! Four Viktoria posts!

Lady_Of_The_Vine
25th Mar 2013, 18:32
Hehe, its surreal... I like it. :D

Chilliwack
26th Mar 2013, 00:09
You're not Viktoria! I'm Viktoria!

YsaNoire
26th Mar 2013, 01:00
And that would still not make sense because Garrett would still not physically have the space to haul all that junk, unless the amount of loot is somewhere between none and two.

Not necessarily, he could carry a large number of gems, jewellery items and valuable (gold) coins, and a smaller, but still significant number of, say, paintings. And maybe a statuette stuck in his codpiece.. It's just the candlesticks and silver platters that are a problem.

Not that I really think they're going to reduce loot varieties to those that make sense, but technically, if they really wanted to, it could be done.

Chilliwack
26th Mar 2013, 06:09
Not necessarily, he could carry a large number of gems, jewellery items and valuable (gold) coins, and a smaller, but still significant number of, say, paintings. And maybe a statuette stuck in his codpiece.. It's just the candlesticks and silver platters that are a problem.

Not that I really think they're going to reduce loot varieties to those that make sense, but technically, if they really wanted to, it could be done.

Well, a bunch of coins and gems isn't going to take up much room. But really, you would be surprised how much crap people can carry with them, and not be encumbered in the slightest.

Here's a kid who isn't carrying any "loot pouches."

C7g4ZO4jge8

MasterTaffer
26th Mar 2013, 06:17
Well, a bunch of coins and gems isn't going to take up much room. But really, you would be surprised how much crap people can carry with them, and not be encumbered in the slightest.

Here's a kid who isn't carrying any "loot pouches."

C7g4ZO4jge8

The shotgun down one trouser leg alone would qualify as "encumbering". Sure, he can conceal it while standing still but he could hardly walk normally, much less run, jump and climb ropes. Try carrying round gold vases, candle sticks, fire pokers, scepters, full wine bottles, and the rest of the stuff Garrett hoovers up and be able to only walk normally, much less run, jump, and climb swiftly.

You need a certain degree of suspension of disbelief here or Garrett's fire sale treatment of noble property just doesn't fly.

janiashvili
28th Mar 2013, 13:17
That video just is a proof, of being able to put everything you'll encounter in your pants

Platinumoxicity
28th Mar 2013, 14:10
And how about them 2000kg gold coins behind the sofa seats in Constantine's "Little Big World"? :D

janiashvili
28th Mar 2013, 15:09
Obviously keepers have told him secret of lifting and keeping enormous amount of loot

Psychomorph
28th Mar 2013, 17:56
Now I understand why baggies were so popular among the gangs of the 90's.


Speaking of hard to get loot. It makes perfect sense that loot that is carried and presented outside may be easy to get, but to search someones bags and pockets, the person must be unaware, as in blackjacked.

janiashvili
31st Mar 2013, 08:19
So basically, new City Watch uniform is very similar to T2 City Watch concepts:
http://youtu.be/HnTJ7hlLGdE?t=1m58s

Well, this somehow proves the idea of being in-between T1 and T2...