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dogsolitude_uk
12th May 2009, 12:29
Like nearly everyone else here I'm really, really pleased that we'll be seeing Thief 4.

I'm really sorry to dredge this subject up, but it's something I feel really strongly about.

I've so far boycotted Bioshock, Mass Effect, Chronicles of Rid**** Dark Athena and Alone in The Dark thanks to their insistance on limited installations.

I don't believe that a publisher has the right to tell me how many times I can install/reinstall a game, and entering into an agreement (EULA) where I sign away my rights to reinstall or port around software that I've paid for is not something I want to do. I upgrade my hardware regularly, and have hoiked my trusty copy of Thief from PC to PC to PC.

Moreover, if it hadn't been for finding my old copy of Thief for £1.99 in a second-hand shop all those years ago I may never have bothered with it, and wouldn't be here now on this forum!

Limited installations will surely kill off the second-hand market, since most protection can be cracked within a few days.

Anyway, have there been any plans to ship Thief 4 with limited installations, or other restrictive DRM?

Edit: the rendering of the name of Vin Diesel's popular and much-loved SF character made me giggle...

kin
12th May 2009, 12:36
If such a thing happens I guarantee I won't buy it

Acid_Burn
12th May 2009, 12:55
I don't think Eidos will do such things. Even for their most popular series, Tomb Raider, they put SecureRom, that is hacked by pirates very quickly.

ZIGS
12th May 2009, 12:56
--Off-topic--

Am I the only one who lol'd at this? :lmao:


(...)Chronicles of Rid**** Dark Athena[...]

StalinsGhost
12th May 2009, 13:05
Way too soon to say here.

If trends continue though, by the time T4 is released DRM as it was last year with limited installs is set to become highly unpopular with publishers. EA are already removing it from their titles.

dogsolitude_uk
12th May 2009, 13:25
--Off-topic--

Am I the only one who lol'd at this? :lmao:

Yeah, made me lol too :)

Back on topic, I agree that it's probably too early to say. It would, however, be a heinous crime to cripple the game with DRM the way that many other games have been 'done'.

With the controversy surrounding SPORE's DRM and the rest, I'm still a little concerned that any publisher may still think that such measures are a good idea. I was really suprised that the publishers of Escape from Dark Athena still went ahead with it after all that.

I'm very conscious that many publisher's don't actually listen to the public when it comes to such things. I'm also very conscious that the second hand market is viewed as a 'Substitute' (one of Porter's Five Forces, marketing fans!) for general distribution, and one that can be easily wiped out with such DRM.

So I'm worried about that. Already. Here's hoping I'm worrying in vain!

DarthEnder
12th May 2009, 13:33
Yeah, limited installs would definitely keep me from buying a game.

I bought Dark Athena but only because I didn't know about their choice of DRM.

Lady_Of_The_Vine
12th May 2009, 14:20
In three little words: I hope not... :(

GmanPro
12th May 2009, 20:29
On multiple occasions, DRM has prevented me from buying games that I would normally have purchased.

Black Messiah
12th May 2009, 21:02
On multiple occasions, DRM has prevented me from buying games that I would normally have purchased.

me 2. i dont buy titles with drm, cause IF i want to sell a game (or buy 1 2nd hand) there re only problems :(

they coult use a programm like crysis or FC 2 does.

Mr. Perfect
13th May 2009, 01:31
There better not be any of that gunk in Thief 4, but we won't be able to get a good idea until Deus Ex 3 comes out.

CurtX
13th May 2009, 01:47
Hopefully in 2 or 3 years when the game is done, the pc game industry will have finally discovered a sensible anti-piracy method. On the other hand, maybe things will only be much worse than they are now. Or even worse, maybe piracy will have gotten so much out of hand, that EM will not release a PC version. I think we better start accepting that this could be a very possible outcome.

HIT3kNology
13th May 2009, 02:32
All you schmucks crying about how you wont buy the game if there are limited instals or online registration are pure liers. Your nothing but trash who never has purchased a game. So dont think your idiot lies are going to fool anyone. Take your nonsense back to *edited out*. I purchased both Crysis and Farcry 2, theres something called a reset key that both games come with, Learn to read. And dont think crying will make a difference, go create your own game and do what you want with it.

GmanPro
13th May 2009, 02:36
^^


On multiple occasions, DRM has prevented me from buying games that I would normally have purchased.


me 2. i dont buy titles with drm

There's a lot more than just us who wont buy games with DRM. And I have never pirated a game in my life, so your argument is completely moot.

Jables_Kage
13th May 2009, 07:54
No DRM plz

Ice1019
13th May 2009, 08:18
Yeah, DRM is BS. But seeing as how badly DRM messed up Spore and Mass Effect, I think everybody's looking for a less infamous way to prevent piracy. Stardock's had some good ideas, I think EM should check out that business model.

GmanPro
13th May 2009, 08:21
Just so long as its not like FEAR 2 or DoW2 where the game disc you purchase basically just gives you a pass to start downloading the game off of steam. Whoever thought of that idea was a complete retard

Unstoppable
13th May 2009, 08:32
Eidos don't put DRM on their games except maybe securom which requires the disk to be in the tray. So no need to worry about it.

Flashart
13th May 2009, 10:52
I too have boycotted many games because of ridiculous security measures.
My plan for T4 was for a new PC not even connected to the net, so I've my
fingers crossed.

esme
13th May 2009, 14:59
with my hand on my heart I state for the record if this game is released with DRM or any kind of limited installation control that prevents me from installing it more than a limited number of times or on a limited number of machines then I'm not buying it, I don't care how good it is

I'm on my fifth machine now and I've installed every flavour of thief I possess on each one, after all it's not like I can play on two PC's at the same time

I would also like to be able to make a back up copy of the disk but I realise this may be a step too far for Eidos, I understand piracy is a problem the thief community (http://www.ttlg.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=100) I normally deal with takes an extremely dim view of software theft, however the disks get damaged over time and trying to replace them can be a nightmare

as for on line registration, I don't really have a problem with this providing I'm not required to be on line when I play the game as I may not be in a position to be on line when playing

at the end of the day you want my money and I want your game, you want to do what you want with my money within reason and I am fully prepared to allow this, providing I can do what I want within reason with the game such as install it on any or all of my machines and possibly make a backup so I don't have to scout around for media in ten years time

and if you don't think the game will be around in ten years ask yourself how long it's been since the original was released and that is still being played today, how many other games have you developed you can say that about


All you schmucks crying about how you wont buy the game if there are limited instals or online registration are pure liers. Your nothing but trash who never has purchased a game. So dont think your idiot lies are going to fool anyone. Take your nonsense back *REMOVED*. I purchased both Crysis and Farcry 2, theres something called a reset key that both games come with, Learn to read. And dont think crying will make a difference, go create your own game and do what you want with it.

I own every game I have, I live in the UK and if you think I'm a liar you can come tell me to my face just PM me when you are in the country also I have created a level for Thief and am in the process of creating more, this is freely redistributable I got no money for it and people seem to enjoy playing it, so I have done what I want with it, I have not created the game engine itself, though I understand the dark engine was a modification of the system shock engine neither of which were made by eidos, so does level creation count or do you want the full package in which case no one not even eidos meet your criteria


... if you don't think the game will be around in ten years ask yourself how long it's been since the original was released and that is still being played today, how many other games have you developed you can say that aboutnot just played it's still being sold in eidos' own on line shop, still making revenue

long tail

Black Messiah
13th May 2009, 15:29
Your nothing but trash who never has purchased a game.

Shut up, *censored*, i have ~ 70 ORIGINAL game copies, im not a stupid thief, cracker or wtf ever!!! :mad: :mad: :mad:

I just dont like the install limits. Ok, you get 1 installation bk if you uninstall the game, but what is, if you have to set up your pc without uninstall? (Happened to me twice, 2 HDD 's crashed in a year)... or similar probs? Only three installations left... cool :(

Tohtori
13th May 2009, 15:34
As we have seen with Spore and the like, DRM just encourages for piracy. When buying customers get all kinds of limiting features the pirating players get cleaned and better working version of the game. I truly hope Eidos can see this.

Lady_Of_The_Vine
13th May 2009, 15:43
Taffers, keep the discussion friendly. We can all agree to disagree. :)
HIT3kNology, check your PM box.

esme
13th May 2009, 16:08
Taffers, keep the discussion friendly. We can all agree to disagree. :)
HIT3kNology, check your PM box.my apologies Viktoria, I've edited my post to match

Lady_Of_The_Vine
13th May 2009, 16:29
Thank you. :)

Zeraliten
14th May 2009, 08:18
I can accept DRM as long as it's noninvasive. Limited installs is one of the worst kinds of DRM. I have five separate computers and two laptops, all of which I use regularly. And I upgrade or replace my computers on a fairly regular basis as well. With any game I buy I install it on two of the desktops and one of the laptops. Laptop for mobility, two desktops because I don't always use the same one in the house. That's three installs right there. Then when you factor in reformats and replacements of old computers/hardware then limited install DRM very quickly becames a very real problem for me. And then, for those who do that, there's the killing of the second-hand market.

Simple online activation without install limits I have no problems with. But earlier versions of starforce and securom where the DRM will go on a witchhunt and proclaim you a pirate for having certain types of software installed is counterproductive. example: After buying Civilization 4 a long time ago on DVD I found that I actually had to uninstall it and download a cracked version of it because the DRM it used refused to operate simply because I had a piece of software called daemon-tools installed. It wasn't running at the time, nor did I have any disk images mounted. The game simply labelled me as a pirate and refused to run purely based on the existence of DT's program files. The only way for me to play the game I had just paid for was to download an extra copy of it where the DRM was conveniently removed.

Anyway, invasive DRM that punishes and/or inconveniences legitimate customers: No.
Non-invasive DRM without arbitrary, artificial limitations and nazi-behaviour: Yes.

GmanPro
14th May 2009, 08:27
Honestly, I think the only good DRM is no DRM. Its the only way to remove all of the hassle associated with it

Henke123
14th May 2009, 09:14
I hope they follow Ubisoft's good example by using the same DRM they used for their latest Prince of Persia game.

Which was NONE AT ALL!

Leshrac
14th May 2009, 13:01
Any protection system is going to be cracked up anyway. It took longer to jack mass effect's protection up but it's been done.

Server-side verification IF (and i hope not) it's going to be co-op or online (jesus christ don't do that) and basic no-cd.

If it goes too extreme with a system like TAGES or any other virus/rootkit/infestation type "protection", people will just end up boycotting the game.