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mi1stormilst
11th May 2009, 16:31
I am an original Thief fan and have been talking for years with my friends about how cool it would be to see a new Thief game. I am super excited and equally concerned because I have seen so many studios mess up really good old school titles recently.

List of Concerns:

- Will be a console port
- Will try to emulate more recent titles like Assassins Creed
- Will not be anything like the first one
- Will focus on graphics and not story or game play
- Will implement some sort of useless DRM

List of Suggestions:

- Involve every day gamers in the design and development, we know what we like.
- Consider charging less for the core game and then providing episodic content for a few bucks a pop ($25.00 for the core game, $10 per new episode).
- Add in co-op, this would be a total blast.
- Add in multiplier modes that are more Arcadish, Smash and Grab, Steal the Loot or Assassinate, basically a race to access a tower, house or some other facility and retrieve some relic before the other Thief. Designate a person of interest and the first person the assassinate them wins.
- Keep it dark and stealthy with a splash of action :-)

Thanks for all your hard work on this series over the years!

Bukary
11th May 2009, 16:35
- Consider charging less for the core game and then providing episodic content for a few bucks a pop ($25.00 for the core game, $10 per new episode).

http://collinscycleshop.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/bad20toaster201.jpg

Barsavian
11th May 2009, 16:44
Most of that is good except the episodic releases, bad bad idea.

Nate
11th May 2009, 16:44
I would love it if they kept this game a PC only game = take full advantage of the power of PC hardware.

However, Eidos needs to make $. So it would seem very likely this game will also be offered on the Xbox 360. At least the Xbox 360 is so superior to the original Xbox that they won't need to dumb down the game this time around (like they did in DS).

Vlad27145
11th May 2009, 16:48
@ Bukari

As was most of the post. No offence mi1stormilst, but really, this is one of those franchises that really does not need MP. Especially not co-op. I know it's fun but it really has no place in the Thief universe. Competitive MP doesn't make me too enthusiast either, but your ideas could work on that. I just wish they fleshed out the single player experience first and foremost. Thief games have always been about story and atmosphere.

Nate
11th May 2009, 16:54
Multiplayer 'sneakmatch' or even Co-op campaign would be fine IF they perfected the single player story first. Multiplayer can be an awesome addition!

Thievingtaffer
11th May 2009, 16:58
Bad idea on the episodic content, and also on the co-op. The beauty of the Thief games is Garrett's ability to be a Master Thief all by himself. I like the feeling of being alone, and quiet when I play these games. I won't shut it down necessarily, but I'll be very wary of 'co-op'. It sounds like something that should be modded in, but not released in the core game.

column5
11th May 2009, 16:59
DX3 will probably be a good barometer as to how EM will approach Thief. If DX3 is a solid game in the vein of DX1, we can have hope.

TheBlackBandit
11th May 2009, 17:02
@Vlad27145 Hear hear! I agree so wholeheartedly about this. Without offence, I disagree entirely with all of those suggestions, except for those that were present in the earlier games. I'd love to see some new ideas implemented, but this closeted, introvert feel of the old games is what I really enjoyed, and I think that adding multi player would damage this gigantically, especially the smash and grab suggestions of yours: Garrett is not violent by choice. Even towards property.

Consoles...ah, consoles. The only reason I played the previous games in the Thief series was that they ran on my ancient machine. I'm not going to be updating that, and I won't be able to play Thi4f otherwise. It would be tragic to miss out on what is going to be an awesome game.

What I'd like to see is a well made PC game, with excellent graphics, and a well made console game, with excellent graphics. How this is done is really no matter of mine.

Nate
11th May 2009, 17:08
Well, the graphics on the Xbox 360 can't match that of a modern gaming PC. The PC has a massive advantage in video Resolution and RAM. So the game will obviously be designed with the limitations of the Xbox 360 in mind....which thankfully are no where near as bad as the original Xbox (poor Thief DS).

Vladimyre
11th May 2009, 17:55
Old school with updated graphics, and stealable everything.

Nate
11th May 2009, 17:57
I want to be able to steal the toilet paper in the guard's barracks = they can't get off the toilet to chase after me in the streets.

Danie1
11th May 2009, 18:06
Being able to interact with everything makes the game too messy, I assume that's why loot glint had to be added to Thief DS. If something is loot, it should stand out. Brings up another point why it had to be added - the older thief games had the lighting down solid. Thief DS had a weird colour tint everywhere to everything, I couldn't tell a stone from a pair of golden die.

UI needs to be done separately for the computer and console versions.

I would stay away from multiplayer.

Platinumoxicity
11th May 2009, 20:19
They should make Thief 4 - (Whatever title), all fine tuned for the PC.
And maybe later make:
Thief 2 - "The sequel that was really made for the PC so don't be surprised if this is too hard to play on a console" (Because the consoletards that were just introduced to the series when they got TDS for XBox, their version of Thief 4 should really be called Thief 2) :)

Princess_Frosty
11th May 2009, 20:31
I am an original Thief fan and have been talking for years with my friends about how cool it would be to see a new Thief game. I am super excited and equally concerned because I have seen so many studios mess up really good old school titles recently.

Tell me about it :(


List of Concerns:

- Will be a console port
- Will try to emulate more recent titles like Assassins Creed
- Will not be anything like the first one
- Will focus on graphics and not story or game play
- Will implement some sort of useless DRM

I agree with all of these, the trend for multiplatform games is for the PC version to inheret all of the nasty constraints that the consoles have, Thief 3 was a perfect example of how a multiplatform sequel of a previously PC only franchise, could really mess things up.

We ended up with segmented loading areas, stupid 3rd person, awful and obnoxious highlights on objects and arrows, missing rope arrows, it was just a mess.


List of Suggestions:

- Involve every day gamers in the design and development, we know what we like.
- Consider charging less for the core game and then providing episodic content for a few bucks a pop ($25.00 for the core game, $10 per new episode).
- Add in co-op, this would be a total blast.
- Add in multiplier modes that are more Arcadish, Smash and Grab, Steal the Loot or Assassinate, basically a race to access a tower, house or some other facility and retrieve some relic before the other Thief. Designate a person of interest and the first person the assassinate them wins.
- Keep it dark and stealthy with a splash of action :-)

I don't agree with most of this, gamers should be part of the development process, part of what made the jump between almost masterpiece of Thief1 and the masterpiece of Thief2 was actually paying attention to the fans!

The episodic content I think is a bad idea, expansion packs and add ons, sure, and paid for additional levels - great, but the core game needs to stay the core game with the full value of a standard length FPS game.

Multiplayer would be kind of cool, I don't think it suits the game well though, you're supposed to be a loner, and I fear any work spent on multiplayer would detract from the resources for singleplayer, adn thats traditional Thief.


Thanks for all your hard work on this series over the years!

My eternal thanks go to looking glass studios who sadly didn't last long, the first 2 games were truly fantastic games and they did not sell out the complex stealth dynamics to reach a wider audience. I fear we will never see this kind of quality come out of another PC game as long as developers are willing to compromise the PC quality because of the console sales, but I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt.

Thanks LGS, RIP.

GmanPro
11th May 2009, 20:35
Well, the graphics on the Xbox 360 can't match that of a modern gaming PC. The PC has a massive advantage in video Resolution and RAM. So the game will obviously be designed with the limitations of the Xbox 360 in mind....which thankfully are no where near as bad as the original Xbox (poor Thief DS).

Still though, you're forgetting that the old Thief games had system requirements well below that of the Xbox suggesting that Ion Storm ***'d up and used a bad engine. The Xbox was fully capable of rendering huge environments, just not at that level of detail.

But we don't really have to worry about that this time around, you're right about that.

Princess_Frosty
11th May 2009, 20:42
Still though, you're forgetting that the old Thief games had system requirements well below that of the Xbox suggesting that Ion Storm ***'d up and used a bad engine. The Xbox was fully capable of rendering huge environments, just not at that level of detail.

But we don't really have to worry about that this time around, you're right about that.

I disagree, the Xbox360 has a tiny amount of rendering power in comparison to a modern PC, lots of PC hardware is going to waste (dual/quad core CPU's and high end GPU solutions) because the games don't push the platform enough.

We should have higher resolutions textures, more detailed models and much nicer dynamic lighting and shadows.

In short, the game needs to be built for the PC and should offer all the standard high definition PC options so those of us with good rigs can get the full experience, then they can port that to the xbox360 and just nerf the crap out of everything as much as they damn well please, as long as they leave the high res stuff in place for the PC.

Epic did this with Gears of War, they made all the models and textures very high res and gimped them for the Xbox360, then when it came time to PC release time they had all the high definition source art to make beautiful higher fidelity content for the PC.

Smiffydude
12th May 2009, 00:12
Leave out Multiplayer, it will be a waste of time and money developing it.

hem dazon 90
12th May 2009, 03:46
why do so many people think that developing a console game is bad? I mean I wanna play theif 4 too but my pc is quite bad

randomtaffer
12th May 2009, 03:49
The main reason why I want a PC version is so that we can mod it easier and make FMs for the community to enjoy.

Necros
12th May 2009, 05:45
- Consider charging less for the core game and then providing episodic content for a few bucks a pop ($25.00 for the core game, $10 per new episode).
- Add in co-op, this would be a total blast.
- Add in multiplier modes that are more Arcadish, Smash and Grab, Steal the Loot or Assassinate, basically a race to access a tower, house or some other facility and retrieve some relic before the other Thief. Designate a person of interest and the first person the assassinate them wins.
Hell no! Very bad ideas! :mad2: :thud:

Nate
12th May 2009, 05:59
Once again, as long as the single player story is fully developed first, then Co-op and Sneakmatch multiplayer is great!

Peter_Smith
12th May 2009, 06:22
I'm definitely old school, and not because I am old. The original Thief 2 and Thief 2 had far better game play and atmosphere than Thief 3. I'd like to see a return to basics. Rope arrows. Swimming. Large maps. Nice color palettes and textures. Creepy atmosphere.

It would be good if all planners and developers of Thief 4 were asked to play both T1 and T2 plus some good T2 FM's like Calendra's Legacy and The Seven Sisters. They could use these as examples of great game playing experience without goofy rag-doll physics or dynamic shadows.

With modern computers, one should be able to have improved graphics without overdoing it, without bringing the system to its knees and requiring load zones or laggy response.

As for multi-player, etc., Garrett is a loner. The player should have a lonely, first person experience with some dread thrown in. I think Thief and multiplayer are basically incompatible.

And, please release the editor with the game. The fans are your friends, and they will help make Thief 4 a success if you let them.

tarhiel
16th Jun 2009, 12:09
Dear Eidos Montreal,

As you can see, there is lot of former thief fans (by former I mean T1 and T2 fans), including me, and we would like to see revival of atmosphere and quality of first two games in the series.
Let me tell you what would I like to see in next installment of the series:
I was going to write that you should run the forum for fans, so they could write what do they like and what do they not like to see in T4, but since this is no longer necessary, because you did it, I´m skipping it. Thank you for that, it means you´re listening to the fans, which is important.
-Sound was essenital for thief games. Please, invite to work with you Eric Brosius, who did sound and music for all three games. Without him the game wouldn´t be the same anymore.
- I agree wih Peter Smith on this one: IF somebody at your team didn´t played first or second thief, he should do it ASAP. Only then he could understand what we all are talking about.
- Please, do NOT do the same mistakes as creators of T3: It means- no climibng gloves (with nowadays HAVOC system it is no problem to do realisitc rope arrow), no short levels with lot of loading zones, rather one big level (in Thief 2 they let you to explore whole city), or bigger levels witch as less loading zones as possible.
- Use havoc physics + ragdoll. NPC´s behave incredibly realistic with them.
In Thief 3, videos were done by the same artists who did it in T1 and T2, but without citations from non-existing manuscripts and books, poems. They added so much of atmosphere. I mean, just read Umberto Eco´s Name of The Rose, or Witcher saga by Andrzej Sapkowski, you will know what I´m speaking about. Or just see cutcsenes from T1 and T2, and then cutscenes form T3 and notice the difference. Please, let Rustmonkey studios do the custcenes in T4, but also with these citations.
- definitely NO multiplayer. Peter said it right: Garret is loner. Game would no more be creepy, with multiplayer in it.
-Please, release editor with your game. Tons of fans would do such a good levels (Just look at ttlg.com, especially Circle of Stone and Shadow, or Seventh Crystal).
- And please, No downloadable content!!! I hate this stuff. When I already paid for game, why should I pay for tiny bits of it again? Rather do one big ADDon at time, if you have to. But I think editor would do just fine :)

Thanks. I´m definitely looking forward for Deus Ex 3 and Thief 4.

tarhiel
16th Jun 2009, 12:14
And I forgot, Definitely wanna PC verison. Or at least, if you REALLY wanna do Xbox360/PS3 versions, you should pay more attention to controls for PC version. Lot of nowadays games sucks, because they just implement Xbox controls into PC- no no, please. Use full potential of PC machines -hi res textures, dynamic shadows, etc, etc.. and rather do console verion form them.

tarhiel
16th Jun 2009, 12:24
And last one: please, NO highliths of objects like in T3. What fun would it be, if object (loot, ropes, whatever) is "shouting" at you "hey, here I am, just take me..."?