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View Full Version : DX3 Hype - Seen it all before???



OmniusALX
4th May 2009, 11:37
Hi all,

Now I'm not on here to flame or troll anyone, or to discredit DX3, its just over the years when the next 'big' game is announced and I visit the forums, I see all kinds of people getting excited (rightfully so) and hoping for the 'game' of their dreams...

Well lets not forget what happened to DX2 - The Console Port... oops, sorry, The Invisible War. Also think back to BioShock and it's numerous 'bugs' (admittedly the game killer for me was dodgy nVidia drivers which I had to wait for almost a month after the game was released before they were stable enough to finally play - but thats another arguement!)

FEAR 2 is another 'big' game that failed on the PC at release (yes the widescreen fiasco is fixed now - v1.03, but not the 5 button mouse!)

I just smile when I see gamers getting into a flap over what OS they may need, or how much money to pour into the bottomless PC hardware pit, just so they can play the game, only for the game to finally come out and either be yet another console port or riddled with endless bugs or some draconian copy protection or bloody STEAM requirements!

The biggest thing that I think we all would like to believe is that DX3 will be a game that captures the essence of what we had with DX1 (almost a FPS with RPG elements?) We don't need an interface that is 'dumbed down' to suit the consoles, and as I am a console gamer too, I am not claiming we console gamers likewise need our games 'dumbed down' - yes they have different control methods, but that all, the games can be just as indepth and 'technical'

One thing I am looking forward too, judging by the concept work on here, is the overall look for the game :thumb: Dare I say it, its got a welcome 'Blade Runner' feel in parts along with the 'clean and sterilised' Mirror's Edge look which I'm really liking, I hope the game is more than just the sum of its parts and really relaunches the brand to where it deserves!

Regards

rokstrombo
4th May 2009, 14:00
I think many people here will be disappointed by Deus Ex 3 to an extent, simply due to the amount of time we have spent objectifying the original game. It's possible that our tastes have become too specific.

Laokin
4th May 2009, 14:38
Hi all,

Now I'm not on here to flame or troll anyone, or to discredit DX3, its just over the years when the next 'big' game is announced and I visit the forums, I see all kinds of people getting excited (rightfully so) and hoping for the 'game' of their dreams...

Well lets not forget what happened to DX2 - The Console Port... oops, sorry, The Invisible War. Also think back to BioShock and it's numerous 'bugs' (admittedly the game killer for me was dodgy nVidia drivers which I had to wait for almost a month after the game was released before they were stable enough to finally play - but thats another arguement!)

FEAR 2 is another 'big' game that failed on the PC at release (yes the widescreen fiasco is fixed now - v1.03, but not the 5 button mouse!)

I just smile when I see gamers getting into a flap over what OS they may need, or how much money to pour into the bottomless PC hardware pit, just so they can play the game, only for the game to finally come out and either be yet another console port or riddled with endless bugs or some draconian copy protection or bloody STEAM requirements!

The biggest thing that I think we all would like to believe is that DX3 will be a game that captures the essence of what we had with DX1 (almost a FPS with RPG elements?) We don't need an interface that is 'dumbed down' to suit the consoles, and as I am a console gamer too, I am not claiming we console gamers likewise need our games 'dumbed down' - yes they have different control methods, but that all, the games can be just as indepth and 'technical'

One thing I am looking forward too, judging by the concept work on here, is the overall look for the game :thumb: Dare I say it, its got a welcome 'Blade Runner' feel in parts along with the 'clean and sterilised' Mirror's Edge look which I'm really liking, I hope the game is more than just the sum of its parts and really relaunches the brand to where it deserves!

Regards


Dude, Steam rocks. Hater.

GmanPro
4th May 2009, 16:33
I was going to get the new Rid**** game but then I noticed that it is absolutely saturated with DRM. And it uses a checkpoint save system ... like W. T. F. Who knows what else they polluted the gameplay with, which is why I am not going to get this game. At least not until it drops down to like $20. Oh, and Steam sux

SageSavage
4th May 2009, 17:16
Rid****ulous...

GmanPro
4th May 2009, 17:34
Well, that would pretty much be the worst thing ever. I don't think EM is that bad ...

IOOI
4th May 2009, 18:01
Checkpoint system without quicksaves is another symptom of this disease.

I asked here like 10 times about the save system in DX3. Nothing but deadly silence. Makes you wonder.:rolleyes:

Please don't make it happen!:worship:
Please don't make it happen!:worship:
Please don't make it happen!:worship:

3nails4you
4th May 2009, 18:12
At the risk of proving this thread correct, I think the save system of DX1 was great. There WAS a quick save/load, and you chose when to save everything.

ZylonBane
4th May 2009, 19:13
I think many people here will be disappointed by Deus Ex 3 to an extent, simply due to the amount of time we have spent objectifying the original game.
Ummm... the original game IS an object. It can't get any more objectified than it already was.

René
4th May 2009, 20:26
I need to pick up Ridd.ick. Isn't it much more linear than a Deus Ex game though? Deus Ex is more non-linear than Ridd.ick, with large city hubs, no?

Unstoppable
4th May 2009, 20:32
Riddic-k is linear but I believe I read on Game Informer there are different ways to approach objectives. Also there is online multiplayer which is quite good plus the original Butcher's Bay digitally enhanced.

As for Deus Ex 3 there are plenty of threads where people have been warned not to get their hopes up. The fans are holding the developers to a higher standard this time around. It looks like the talent they have is capable but the fact is it's up in air. Nothing has been proven and its all speculation at this point how things will turn out.

Perhaps we will see something at E3 2009. Also probably some concept art will be unveiled in 6 days as Eidos Montreal announces their second project rumored to be Thief 4.

FrankCSIS
4th May 2009, 20:56
or how much money to pour into the bottomless PC hardware pit

Just had a discussion about this last week-end, and I realised consoles overall tend to get at least as pricey as a gaming PC.

Considering we're all getting a PC regardless of gaming for every day use, the only extra you really need to keep up is RAM and a solid video card. RAM is cheap as dirt, and while video cards can get pretty expensive, I could get a pretty sweet one for the 500$ I shelled out for the 360 and its accessories. Sure every now and then you need to change the motherboard to keep up with your upgrades, but I don't think any of my gaming machines ever expired before my consoles did. Throw in some exclusive titles requiring you to buy two consoles to get it all, and before you know it you've ponied up more money into your basement gig than you did on the pc.

SageSavage
4th May 2009, 21:26
That's what I think. Consoles mean additional costs.

Romeo
4th May 2009, 23:54
I need to pick up Ridd.ick. Isn't it much more linear than a Deus Ex game though? Deus Ex is more non-linear than Ridd.ick, with large city hubs, no?
I don't know about Assault on Athena, but the original felt a little like Far Cry in the sense objectives could be handled in a multitude of ways.

And seriously, couldn't the original poster have used one of the other 463 threads about this? God...

OuttaZyme
5th May 2009, 04:01
I need to pick up Ridd.ick. Isn't it much more linear than a Deus Ex game though? Deus Ex is more non-linear than Ridd.ick, with large city hubs, no?

Both Riddiick games were as linear as the phone book, with a checkpoint save system and (at least in Dark Athena), forced stealth segments. The checkpoint saves are nothing new for Starbreeze, as they've been doing that for years, but I generally prefer a straight fight to all this sneaking around.

For all that people complain about it, DX:IW, for example, was much better than either Butcher Bay or Dark Athena, because at the very least it afforded the player to make some of his own choices. You know, like when to save.

I guess anyone who can listen to Diesel's delivery for more than fifteen minutes without wanting to check his own pulse won't care about this other stuff, but it bugged the crap out of me.

rokstrombo
5th May 2009, 04:14
Ummm... the original game IS an object. It can't get any more objectified than it already was.

I should have said that our personal abstractions of what we enjoyed about the game have been objectified.

Depending on how you define art and the experience of art, IMHO it is possible to objectify a videogame.

K^2
5th May 2009, 05:44
Even these abstract ideas can only be objectified by someone else. Our ideas are abstract and subjective any way we twist it. Now, if someone else made a game based on our perception of what DX should be, that would be objectification of that abstraction.

We also have Invisible War, which is an objectification of abstract notion of what fans want based on poor interpretation of verbalization of the abstract ideas that fan had.

rokstrombo
5th May 2009, 06:25
That's very true, though I suggest that this verbalised objectification may alter our experience of future games in ways that are too specific for developers to adequately address.

Perhaps our preferences have become too esoteric to be satisfied by such a highly anticipated game?

K^2
5th May 2009, 06:32
I don't think so. I think they are simply too specific to not even the DX fans as a collection, but numerous sub-collections of fans. A game that will satisfy a small portion of the fans will not satisfy the rest. But trying to make a game that satisfies the broadest possible audience, because all the fans cannot be satisfied, is not really a solution.

Irate_Iguana
5th May 2009, 08:42
But trying to make a game that satisfies the broadest possible audience, because all the fans cannot be satisfied, is not really a solution.

There comes a point where they will have to just cut their losses. If they do that while maintaining a strict vision of what DX should be, then I can have peace with it even if it isn't the vision I like.

However, more often than not they try to aim as broad as possible. They alienate the "hardcore" fans by aiming for the masses by doing what it cool. There is no vision or idea of how the game should feel. It is all just an appeal to the lowest common denominator. That is destroying a franchise. The justification for that is that they can't satisfy all the fans. The real reason is that the suits want a fast way to cash in on a title before the IP becomes worthless. Afraid to take risks they aim at what they think is a sure bet.

lumpi
5th May 2009, 15:30
I need to pick up Ridd.ick. Isn't it much more linear than a Deus Ex game though? Deus Ex is more non-linear than Ridd.ick, with large city hubs, no?

So you couldn't sneak a quick "we won't use checkpoint saves" in that post? Like, to blight an ugly rumor before it can even spread?

ZylonBane
5th May 2009, 17:57
There is absolutely nothing wrong with checkpoint saves as long as they're in addition to a traditional save-anywhere system.

God knows I wish the original DX had checkpoint saves. Who here hasn't gotten killed in DX and then realized they hadn't saved for hours?

Lady_Of_The_Vine
5th May 2009, 18:10
I hate checkpoint saves IF you don't know they're coming. :mad:
This can be extremely annoying - TR: Anniversary had invisible checkpoints which often meant I had to go on a very long hike just to be able to return to a certain platform or area I specifically wanted to be in.
If the checkpoint is denoted by a visible icon, I don't mind this. At least you can avoid it if you are not yet ready to save.

K^2
5th May 2009, 19:32
There is absolutely nothing wrong with checkpoint saves as long as they're in addition to a traditional save-anywhere system.

God knows I wish the original DX had checkpoint saves. Who here hasn't gotten killed in DX and then realized they hadn't saved for hours?
Word. I tend to bookmark save in any game that lets me. If a game doesn't, I usually cycle through available slots, but I still save often. But DX is one of these few games that you really get into. And when there is a really tense sequence of events, I just forget to save. And these tend to be the kind of places where you get killed. So it happened, and it happened a lot. A few checkpoints that create an auto-save would be nice.

Romeo
5th May 2009, 21:29
Checkpoints. Destroy. Tension. End of.

And not saving for long time is your responsibility.
I prefer the hybrid of the two. I don't want to stop playing every three seconds to save, but then again, I don't want to have to start from the beginning of an area for not having done so. The auto-save in conjunction with seperate saving is a nice balance between these two, I find.

K^2
5th May 2009, 21:36
Checkpoints. Destroy. Tension. End of.
Not if they are seamless. If the game captures relevant save data when you reach a certain area, and quietly streams it to a file on the HDD without a frame rate drop or so much as a "saving..." icon, it'd be perfectly fine. You won't know that the game has been saved for you, so tension is still there.

If you have to stop every few minutes and think about saving, that ruins tension far worse than automatic saving ever could.

El_Bel
5th May 2009, 21:39
Checkpoints. Destroy. Tension. End of.

And not saving for long time is your responsibility.

Well, when you are so immersed in a game like Deus Ex, its only normal to forget about saving. Checkpoints or autosaves every 10 minutes (cycling between 3 autosaves slots) all the way!!

Lady_Of_The_Vine
5th May 2009, 21:55
I just hope EM will have the decency to make autosaves optional...

A sensible solution. :thumb:

Olle
6th May 2009, 00:20
Ooops. Posted in wrong section lol...

GmanPro
6th May 2009, 00:25
Autosaves are fine. DX had autosaves didn't it? Just autosave at the start of each area or before a major conversation etc

K^2
6th May 2009, 00:27
Ooops. Posted in wrong section lol...
When you are editing your post, there is an option to delete it.

Blade_hunter
6th May 2009, 01:12
It doesn't have autosaves, like pha said, also I thin the auto saving should be made between level transitions and the ability to make quick saves / standard saves are great, just like the original deus ex but with auto saves in level transitions ...

K^2
6th May 2009, 02:24
Levels in DX3 will be quite large, so between level transitions is a no go, but the levels are stitched together form a large number of zones. Zone transitions are seamless, and new zones are streamed in. These would be good places to autosave, and I'm pretty sure the engine is already built to do just that.

And just like pha said, I wouldn't have any problems with it if there is a checkbox to disable autosaving.

GmanPro
6th May 2009, 02:52
You know, instead of disabling autosave ... You could just not use those save slots

SemiAnonymous
6th May 2009, 05:36
Autosaves are fine. DX had autosaves didn't it? Just autosave at the start of each area or before a major conversation etc

Fallout 3 did this, and it was actually one of the things I liked. Any time you enter a new map (IE, you enter/exit a building or enter the next part of a building) it would save, and I found this worked perfectly. See, I quicksave frequently, as I like my awesome manuvers to work perfectly, I quicksave right before I do something like jump from a cliff to a roof (to give an example that I used a few days ago. Tooks quite a few tries as I went from crouching to standing to running to jumping, switching to crouch in mid jump and landing it, but thanks to the wonky engine, I sometimes would jump too soon and fall onto a raider), and once I get it right, I quicksave again.

I found that with the area autosave, it worked seamlessly. If I saved in a spot I didn't like, just reload the last autosave and problem solved. It wasn't a huge immersion breaker for me (I can quickly re immerse myself in a game, even when I'm bumped out temporarily, hooray), and it ended up working nice and smooth. Make this optional, and I think it would pretty much be the perfect save system.

Unstoppable
6th May 2009, 06:41
I would disagree that checkpoints destroy tension, it has quite the opposite affect. It creates tension for the player because you have to survive long enough to reach that next checkpoint.

Halo for the original Xbox on Legendary did this and did it very well. I died 100's of times being so close to the next checkpoint etc. It created more tension and forced me to be more careful and find new ways of eliminating enemies while being grossly out numbered.

JCD
6th May 2009, 07:44
Halo @ Legendary didn't really create any tension for me...maybe frustration in a couple of areas. What did create tension was Far Cry - I really liked the checkpoint system there.

But in a DX title it is rather crazy to think that a checkpoint system should do the trick - this would never work. Qsave/Qload ftw (and fast, not like IW's...it-takes-ages-to-load-my-save)

GmanPro
6th May 2009, 08:15
I would disagree that checkpoints destroy tension, it has quite the opposite affect. It creates tension for the player because you have to survive long enough to reach that next checkpoint.

Halo for the original Xbox on Legendary did this and did it very well. I died 100's of times being so close to the next checkpoint etc. It created more tension and forced me to be more careful and find new ways of eliminating enemies while being grossly out numbered.

Halo is a completely different type of game. If you find yourself dyeing ten times in a minute trying to force something to work in DX, then your doing it wrong. I agree that the checkpoint system added intensity to the action in Halo, but in the end it took me right out of the story and made it feel like a game. The antithesis of what DX is about. Manual save capability or fail

K^2
6th May 2009, 10:08
Qsave/Qload ftw (and fast, not like IW's...it-takes-ages-to-load-my-save)
There is a bit of a problem with that. Loading from arbitrary point will take a while, because all of the level data needs to be loading. Loading last checkpoint would be a lot quicker, because nearly all data is already in place.

I'm not saying that quick save/load shouldn't be there, but if a quick load to last checkpoint button is available, you might find yourself using it more often, because it will work a lot faster.

lumpi
6th May 2009, 15:43
Autosaves are fine. DX had autosaves didn't it? Just autosave at the start of each area or before a major conversation etc

Yes.

Autosave =/= Checkpoints

ZylonBane
6th May 2009, 16:12
Checkpoints. Destroy. Tension. End of.
How in the hell can autosaves destroy tension when you don't even notice they're happening? Both Half-Lifes autosaved. System Shock 2 autosaved. Bloodlines autosaved. Countless other games autosave. Are you saying this built-in functionality destroyed these games for you? Because if it did, you're a loony.

Jerion
6th May 2009, 16:56
Is that your new favorite word? :D

IOOI
6th May 2009, 17:01
For anyone that wants to know the difference between checkpoint and auto-save see:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Checkpoint_(video_gaming)#Checkpoints
http://www.giantbomb.com/checkpoints/92-292/

Checkpoints

Checkpoints are locations in a computer or video game... where a player's status is saved and where the character respawns in the status saved by the checkpoint.

Auto-save
When the game automatically saves in the beginning of a level/map. It can also be implemented in order to save after a certain period of time.

EDIT: Thanks fox...:o

SageSavage
6th May 2009, 17:09
I fail to see a difference, tbh...

ZylonBane
6th May 2009, 17:16
Is that your new favorite word? :D
Yes.

foxberg
6th May 2009, 18:29
I would disagree that checkpoints destroy tension, it has quite the opposite affect. It creates tension for the player because you have to survive long enough to reach that next checkpoint.

Halo for the original Xbox on Legendary did this and did it very well. I died 100's of times being so close to the next checkpoint etc. It created more tension and forced me to be more careful and find new ways of eliminating enemies while being grossly out numbered.

I quit playing Halo 2 at some point because of the stupid checkpoint only saves. It was too annoying not to be able to save a game at certain point and move on from there. To keep replaying the same piece of game for hours could be really frustrating and a real turn off.
JMO.

SquidPirate
19th May 2009, 21:46
Hi all,

We don't need an interface that is 'dumbed down' to suit the consoles, and as I am a console gamer too, I am not claiming we console gamers likewise need our games 'dumbed down' - yes they have different control methods, but that all, the games can be just as indepth and 'technical'






Agreed. I read plenty of IW interviews before the game was released, and my impression was that the "simplification" of DX elements had little to do with consoles (that's become a tiresome bugbear for a lot of people) but rather for the design philosophy of Harvey Smith. He wanted it smaller and simpler, owing to some stat he discussed about how most people who play games don't finish them. He never cited that stat, and I personally don't accept it. I know of no one who played Deus Ex's immense adventure and didn't finish it. And if they don't finish it, shame on them.

-metalhead-
20th May 2009, 02:51
idk, TES Oblivion was ridiculously overhyped and it turned out to be an amazing game, not better than Morrowind but it was still pretty awesome...

GmanPro
20th May 2009, 04:51
...TES Oblivion was ridiculously overhyped and it turned out to be amazingly disappointing...

I fixed it for you

TeKKMaRINE
20th May 2009, 14:26
STEAM requirements!

Regards

WHAT! :poke:

Errr hehehe ...
Your kidding right?

I have too many issues with steam! It dont work at Uni or back at home!