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CephasType3
9th Aug 2012, 12:53
So during the credits of the game, when you are diving through all the letters, if you touch all the highlighted letters you will unlock a secret message in the reports section.

It reads:
"The past will be reawakened as a new number in never-before-seen detail. Prepare yourself for the awakening of the next number."

What does this mean exactly?
At first glance i think, "oh KH3 YAY!"
but reading more into it i think maybe a hd release of kingdom hearts 1 and 2?

member_10228379
9th Aug 2012, 15:43
i would buy the crap out of an hd remix of kh1/2

member_10640198
9th Aug 2012, 15:55
i guess they could be talking about either.


a friend told me nomura was interested in an hd collection of kingdom hearts so its a possibility.


kh3 may include other past elements within the game we don't even know about.

DerekMaverick
9th Aug 2012, 16:05
The past will be awakend I think is a referance to Terra, Ventus, and Aqua showing up again. The new number being III and the detail being the fact of better graphics on a PS3/4 with HD.

iambasho777
10th Aug 2012, 12:10
To me it means BBS will be coming to PS3 in HD and coined KH0. The credits already told us that the next new game would be KHIII (the blue letters and the hidden Roman numerals read "This leads to KINGDOM HEARTS III") so we don't need a second message telling us that. The only other option I can think of would be all of the important handheld games (BBS, Days, CoM) getting a HD release as KH1.5 or something like that to reduce the number of consoles the games are on.


EDIT: Also, the final bit just means that they're doing this to help catch people up for KHIII. Now all of the people who automatically assume that handheld titles aren't important will end up buying this... damn, I wanted to sit back and laugh at all the clueless idiots :(

DerekMaverick
10th Aug 2012, 12:49
@Basho


Or it would be called Kingdom Hearts: Handheld HD Remaster or something like that. I doubt CoM would be in it do to it already being a PS2 game but BBS, Days, and RE:Coded are all probable. I got really sick of people just saying they are going to ignore every game until KHIII. They aren't going to understand anything that way and will diminish all fun they will have with the game. And all that love I had for Days would be even better shared on a console with Four players at one once on the big screen!

iambasho777
10th Aug 2012, 13:53
Re:CoM flew under a lot of people's radar, though. It was released only a little before the PS3 came out, so PS2 game sales were dropping quite a bit. Plus, it had a bit of a stigma with it due to it being unique and not the same fighting style as KHI/KHII, which drove a lot of people away from it. I wouldn't expect Re:Coded, since it really doesn't have that much to do with the overall plot (though it is my third favorite game in the series, and one of the best games out there for the DS). Also, I would expect CoM because of the stuff introduced in DDD that sheds a new light on Organization XIII and Nobodies in general.

DerekMaverick
10th Aug 2012, 15:29
I feel like They(Square) would release a PS2 HD collection with Re:CoM. And leave the other three on another collection.

mastercrazyhand
11th Aug 2012, 23:14
I feel like They(Square) would release a PS2 HD collection with Re:CoM. And leave the other three on another collection.




agreed


coded/re:coded, bbs/bbs FM, 3d, and even days should be on a totally different collection than 1/2 and re:com


and for heaven's sake if they do a hd collection of 1/2 can they PLEASE be the final mix versions?????????

chocman123
19th Aug 2012, 16:45
Uh, but didn't SE say that 3D was the last game before III? I don't think tehy would release a Hd collection before then (or one at all, given the fact that these are full-legnth JRPGS we are talking about. About 50 hourse of gameplay in each of them...

Ryutim
30th Aug 2012, 19:16
Honestly, I don't care if it's hd or not, I just wish they'd release all the final mixes in english. I'd pay 50 bucks for each of them if I had to, it's a pain in the @$$ to have to go and find each of the cutscenes that were left out of the english versions, but it'd be even worse to not see them, and that doesn't even count the secret bosses and stuff that I've missed out on. I know that there are some people who have made english patches for the FMs, but I'd have to download some sketchy programs to be able to use it, and I'm way too paranoid about viruses to try and use them. Anyway, back to the secret message. *Spoiler Warning* My first thought when I read it was of Xion, but that doesn't really make much sense. I guess it could mean an hd re-release of some of the games, but if it doesn't include the stuff from the final mixes, there's no way I'm gonna buy it, after all, I've already got the games, so what's the point of getting the same game again, even if it does have better graphics? Another thing it might be reffering to could be the seven keyblade wielders of light, or the thirteen of darkness, after all, both sides are missing members (Ventus has yet to join them, if he's even awake yet, and Aqua is still trapped in the dark realm, and since Xehanort failed to make Sora into his thirteenth vessal, he still needs to make one more version of himself to get the full thirteen that he needs.), I know that this doesn't fit the message perfectly, but I thought I might as well put the ideas out there.

Metroidfan95
31st Aug 2012, 13:58
Pretty sure it's either an HD remake of 1 & 2, Or it's hinting at kingdom hearts 3. Story wise i'd say the coming of Xehanort. You know what I mean after beating kingdom hearts 3d. =)

Ryutim
31st Aug 2012, 15:58
Yeah, those would make the most sense.

member_10578644
24th Sep 2012, 19:49
For the time I have had yet to have any good theories, but I will say I don't think it has anything to do with re-makes or the 3rd, 1-KH3 is already know if you pay any attention and 2- with the way SE is I don't see them making remakes, it would be cool to see english versions of the Final Mix's, I know how you feel Ryutlm, but even Square said they never had any plans for it to be in english. Also, the idea that it leads to some kind of game release like that doesn't add up to me, all the past hints in the other games always had a bigger meaning to the story, I know that's a long shot in some eyes, but I just feel that makes the most sense, personally, it wouldn't be the first time Square sent me for a loop.

iambasho777
25th Sep 2012, 15:53
^
...you do know that they announced a HD Collection of KHI and Re:CoM (with brand new voiced cutscenes from Days in theater mode) to be called KH I.5 Re:Mix, right? This means I was actually pretty close on my original guess since this strongly implies a KH II.5 Re:Mix with KHII, BBS, and Coded cutscenes.

member_10578644
1st Oct 2012, 16:48
^
...you do know that they announced a HD Collection of KHI and Re:CoM (with brand new voiced cutscenes from Days in theater mode) to be called KH I.5 Re:Mix, right? This means I was actually pretty close on my original guess since this strongly implies a KH II.5 Re:Mix with KHII, BBS, and Coded cutscenes.


Actually I looked that up, the HD versions are likely to only release in Japan just like the Final Mix's.

iambasho777
1st Oct 2012, 17:00
Not true in the least. When asked about upcoming games recently (the week before TGS) a Disney rep said that in addition to the two upcoming Epic Mickey games NA would be seeing another title that would be announced soon. In addition to that, all of the sites claiming it's going to be Japan only are twisting the words of the announcement; as of right now it has indeed only been announced for Japan, but the inclusion of the Secret Message alluding to it in the NA version as well as the hint from the Disney rep spell it out pretty clearly that at the very least NA will be getting it. I hope EU gets it too so they'll finally get the chance to play Re:CoM.
I would cite my source on that Disney rep thing but I'm on my phone so I'll let you find it on your own.

rikufan25
1st Oct 2012, 18:11
Now that SE has announced Kingdom Hearts 1.5 HD Remix, I'm pretty sure SE was referring to the hd remix in the secret message.

vitornavarrete
1st Oct 2012, 19:38
The interview Basho mentioned: m.ign.com/articles/2012/09/25/report-kin... (http://m.ign.com/articles/2012/09/25/report-kingdom-hearts-15-coming-west-next-year)





And, every thing fits in place (or, in KH terms, All the pieces lie where they fell where they wait for him...)


Nomura said it's time to Kingdom Hearts to get back to consoles. (1.5 will be on PS3)


Tai Yasue said that KH DDD connects to KH III, the next title. (They are re-releasing old games in HD, but they aren't the next title, technically)





There are two secret messages in KH DDD. The one from the mini-game and the one from the credits ("This leads to KH III"). As 1.5 can be seen as 'The past reawakened as a new number in never-before-seen detail.' because it's past games, a new number and HD (more details). The next phrase says "Prepare yourself for the awakening of the next number.", we can see the next as III, since the last number was II. And a collection, gathering all games in one plataform is a way to prepare everyone to KH III. Or it can be talking about 1.5 as the next number. Anyways we already have the message for III at the credits.





And, I do belive we will get this because they would have removed the mini-game from the first credits if it weren't true. Why would they tease everyone with this message and then don't release the game. I'm just worried because we haven't heard about Type-0, but the interview from Disney Interactive made me settle down. Also PS3 (or X360 if they decide releasing for it) are in a better situation that PSP here in the west. Another problem is if they drop FM in prol of the original version here. But they wouldn't be this mean... right? Right?

member_10578644
2nd Oct 2012, 20:29
No offence, but they could be that mean, they made Japan the absolutely amazing FM and what did we get, nothin'.

xxBIGxxDOGGxx
2nd Oct 2012, 23:10
The meaning of the secret message is the new "Kingdom Hearts 1.5 HD Remix" game that is going to be released soon. For... wait for it my friends... PS3!

iambasho777
3rd Oct 2012, 16:51
No offence, but they could be that mean, they made Japan the absolutely amazing FM and what did we get, nothin'.

Research the FMs a bit. You'll find that the only one with enough extra content to warrent a re-release worldwide would be KHII's.
KHI's just added a couple of abilities, three very short and largely unimportant cutscenes, two keychains, a new minigame heartless, and a few odd items. These were all just afterthoughts to make up for the cut content in the original Japanese version, which had about half of the optional stuff the NA and EU versions did. Not exactly worth localizing.
KHII's actually added a lot, but wasn't localized because the average American gamer doesn't buy a re-release a year after they got the original game, and it wouldn't have been worth the cost to localize it for the meager sales (and potential losses) that would have come from it.
BBS's, like KHI's, added next to nothing. It had an extra five minute tack-on episode that added nothing to the story, three (fairly easy) arena fights, and minigame unversed, and these were to make up for the things in the worldwide version (MF, two arena matches) that weren't in the original Japanese version (plus, FMs are becoming a sort of tradition with the main KH titles). Again, not worth the effort and cost of localizing.
It has nothing to do with Square being "mean", it has to do with the fact that Square is a business and localizing a game costs a ton of time and money to do, making it ultimately not worth it for them since projected sales would have likely been below their profit margin.


These HD collections will likely be purchased by 3/4 of the people who originally bought KHI and KHII, and will also bring in several new fans to the series, making future titles more successful. It is well worth it for these collections to be localized, and it has been all but confirmed if you review Vitor's points (as well as my own).



Another problem is if they drop FM in prol of the original version here. But they wouldn't be this mean... right? Right?

That would mean more work for them. I don't get why people think FMs weren't localized due to SE being "mean", as I said before it's just the logical business decision to not put out time and effort for something that won't net a profit.

vitornavarrete
3rd Oct 2012, 17:55
That would mean more work for them. I don't get why people think FMs weren't localized due to SE being "mean", as I said before it's just the logical business decision to not put out time and effort for something that won't net a profit.







Don't get me wrong Basho, I agree with pretty much everything you said regarding NA FM releases not being profitable and I really never had a problem with it, besides, maybe, KH II FM+, that was a hellof new content, but I watched it on youtube, so, no hard feelings.





And, I do agree with you, releasing the original version of KH, in the ReMix, here in NA, for our perspective, would be a lot more of work. Well, kinda of, you "could" just comment a bunch of code and voilá. I'm not implying it's very easy, but it isn't very hard either. Note: I'm talking about removing new content like Keyblades/new bosses. Using the gameplay from the original version instead of the new one would be a massive work.





Anyways, I really don't think they would that, but, SE has done some strange decisions this generation. While one can argue were not releasing Type-0 in NA/EU, at least for PSN, is that bad of a decision because of psp/vita situation, no one can say that releasing FF XIV was a smart decision. Probably the worst decision Square ever made. I hope they learned from it and aren't making any more stupid stuff. Releasing the original version of KH in the HD collection here in NA would be just plain dumb, for example. But I trust SE will do the right thing.




P.S.: I think you're overestimating how much this collection will sell. While I do think it can sell about 1 million copies in NA one year after release I'm not as optimistic as you. Note: I think this number will be possible with a PS3/360 release. If they release it just for PS3 I don't think it will sell more than one million. God of War collections did well, but collections from Japan did not. But, since it's a remaster, they might break even the worldwide releases costs with less than half a million copies. Anyways, releasing it in NA looks like free money for me.

iambasho777
3rd Oct 2012, 18:10
I guess I wasn't clear enough on how I was expecting it to sell - I am expecting 800,000 in the first year for both 1.5 and 2.5, since both 1 and 2 sold around a million in their first year IIRC.

While dummying out content isn't too difficult it does require extra QA time to make sure nothing else was messed up, and I highly doubt SE would do that just to rip off the rest of the world :P. I could understand us not getting that fully voiced cutscene between Cloud and Sephy since that isn't just porting over old audio, but things that are just code I don't see it happening for.

Ryutim
6th Oct 2012, 19:33
I'll probably end up getting the KH 1.5 HD remix, and I agree that SE isn't being mean by holding back the FMs, but that doesn't stop me from being really annoyed that I'm not able to play the extra content from KHIIFM, because, like you said, that's the only FM that has enough extra content to really make it worth while, so, I dunno, I'm just hoping that SE will see fit to remake KHIIFM in english someday. You mentioned 2.5, is that just hypothetical, or is there actually some info concerning a KH 2.5 remix?

vitornavarrete
6th Oct 2012, 21:26
@Ryutim: Famitsu made an interview with Nomura about 1.5 ReMix. They asked about a HD version for KH II and Nomura replied something along the lines "It would be weird if there wasn't (laughs)" so, we kinda of can take 2.5 for granted. Sure, localisation still a burning question.

Ryutim
7th Oct 2012, 12:53
Thanks for the info, now I just hope they make the FM of KH2, rather than the regular english version, and like you said, they'll need to localize it, or else the whole thing will have been for nothing.

member_10578644
7th Oct 2012, 22:45
I agree with most that's being said, but along the lines that the game might not sell as much, personally I don't think it would sell near enough to be woth the effort. Maybe about half of the NA KH fans would get it, but I don't know how many would have the money on them when they might be more thinking to be ready for the 3rd, and with non-fans, the KH series is already reaching it's peak. I know plenty of people who have at least heard of KH, but unless they like the style of gameplay they never thought twice about it because they had other games they wanted to get to. I know there are probably a big chunk of people who would buy it, but for me 800,000 is overselling it by a lot, it's just not worth it in a buisness point of veiw, to many risks of lossing money instead of gain.

vitornavarrete
8th Oct 2012, 00:04
I agree with most that's being said, but along the lines that the game might not sell as much, personally I don't think it would sell near enough to be woth the effort. Maybe about half of the NA KH fans would get it, but I don't know how many would have the money on them when they might be more thinking to be ready for the 3rd, and with non-fans, the KH series is already reaching it's peak. I know plenty of people who have at least heard of KH, but unless they like the style of gameplay they never thought twice about it because they had other games they wanted to get to. I know there are probably a big chunk of people who would buy it, but for me 800,000 is overselling it by a lot, it's just not worth it in a buisness point of veiw, to many risks of lossing money instead of gain.









There's one thing in common between Pokemon and Mario (2d Mario, in this specific case). They don't change the formula that much, from one interation to another, but still sell tons of games. Why? Because while children age and don't wanna play that stuff anymore, there's a lot of new children to play that game, and it will be new to them, so, why change that much in the game? Why am I saying that? Because the last big console game of the series was released in 2005 (Re:CoM did kinda of poorly). It has been 7 years now. There is a whole new generation of kids that never played Kingdom Hearts out there. When they see Disney characters in a full action game (it will look like that for them) they will go crazy. Belive it or not, Disney is a big selling point for the series. Portable aren't as popular as they were before, because of smartphones, but home consoles still hold their ground in NA. There will be kids to buy this game. I was 14 when first played it, but I saw tons of people on youtube talking about how the game was important for their childhood. This will happen once again. But, for this to happen, SE has to release for the consoles that children have. I'm not sure, but probably, in NA, it would be 360. Maybe, depending on release date, WiiU would be another smart choice.

As for the fans of the series. First, let's make it clear, we have "fans" and we have fans. "Fans" are the people that played KH I and KH II on their PS2 and, every time SE post something about a new KH game (a saw it during all the DDD campain) on facebook, they go around whining: "where's KH 3?", "release it for Vita", "portable aren't real consoles" etc etc. We can take for granted that those "fans" didn't buy DDD. But the game sold about 300k on the first week. So we can assume that there is at least 200k fans that have been buying every KH games for consoles that they had (people skiped BbS because they didn't have a psp, etc). I also think it's safe to assume that those people will buy a FM release, be it for KH I or II, if it is released for the gaming console that they own. We could account 100k or 200k from kids and newcomers at full price. Make it more 50k or 100k from the "fans" that will finally be able to play KH on a real console, many of them didn't played Re:CoM, because it was a late release for the PS2 (many had already changed to X360/PS3). Also, they will be able to see Days.

Anyways, we're talking about, in the worst case scenario, 350k in the first couple of months, at full price. That's less than DDD did in his first two months, and the 3DS is the console with the smallest installed based where KH series made an appearance. Even if they release it just for PS3 in NA, were talking about an installed base twice as bigger as the 3DS one. And I think everyone agree that 1.5 will cost less than DDD. It's just a remaster, with a couple more of VO but there aren't any new tracks or enemies to create, for example.


In the end, everything will go down to which plataforms they will release it in NA, if they will charge full price (U$ 60), when they will release it and how they will advertise. But I don't think they need to sell way more than 200k to pay localization costs for NA and this number is granted to sell in the first week, as long as they release the FM version of KH. Trophies may help a little to increase the sales number. And they can make easy money, from the release day, if they add a new secret movie hinting KH 3 at the end of the game.





P.S.: It isn't sure if they will attain 800k or 1kk in the first year. There's a chance that this will or will not happen. But we can take for granted that it sell at least 500k. Re:Coded is the only game that didn't make this far, but it still sold 470k.

Ryutim
8th Oct 2012, 21:28
If they include a new secret movie, then there's no doubt that I'll buy it. Even if I wasn't gonna buy it already, I'd buy it solely because of that, and I think that there's a fair number of KH fans (I don't know whether there's quotation marks around the term or not) who would do the same.

iambasho777
10th Oct 2012, 00:25
Sorry Ryu, but Nomura said no secret movie in 1.5. I think Vitor posted a link to the article here in the GD.

Ryutim
10th Oct 2012, 16:14
That's alright, there's still 2.5 (hopefully), so maybe there'll be a secret movie in that. In fact, it'd be even better that way, because I'd rather not go out of order, and having KH3 before 2.5 wouldn't be any good for the new KH fans who have only started the series with KH1.5, and who might not have a ps2 with which to go back and play the original KH2.

member_10578644
10th Oct 2012, 16:45
That's alright, there's still 2.5 (hopefully), so maybe there'll be a secret movie in that. In fact, it'd be even better that way, because I'd rather not go out of order, and having KH3 before 2.5 wouldn't be any good for the new KH fans who have only started the series with KH1.5, and who might not have a ps2 with which to go back and play the original KH2.


Actually, I highly doubt they would ever have a new secret ending sense it's the same game as before, also, they would be doing a injustice to their fans if they came out with this, they already said KH3 is the next one.

member_10311806
10th Oct 2012, 17:43
Well the opening scene of KH3D.....im guessing that's what's happening in KHIII bringing back ventus,aqua,terra,xion, and roxas with the addition of kairi and axel as keyblade wielders.....although im not sure how one could do that

vitornavarrete
10th Oct 2012, 18:08
That's alright, there's still 2.5 (hopefully), so maybe there'll be a secret movie in that. In fact, it'd be even better that way, because I'd rather not go out of order, and having KH3 before 2.5 wouldn't be any good for the new KH fans who have only started the series with KH1.5, and who might not have a ps2 with which to go back and play the original KH2.









I don't think anyone belives that. Actually, 2.X in 2014 is a no brainer. But which games will it have? I saw some interesting theories on gaf:

<ul>
chronologically 2.5 would mean: KH 2 FM+, Re:Coded and DDD
KH 2 FM+ and Re:Coded togheter would be something like 2.1
obviously, BbS FM is KH0
[/list]

So, it's possible that the next collection won't be 2.5, instead, it could be 2.1 + 0 or 2.5 + 0. I think everyone here agrees that Re:Coded will be a movie. Now, whether DDD will be a movie or playable or not appear at all remains a mystery. Some people trully believe that Re:Coded has no importance at all and they would drop it, but I don't agree. DDD Spoilers: The scene at Disney Castle, with Pete and Maleficent, makes me belive that they will use the datascape in KH 3 for some kinda of evil plan. If the whole point is to join every game on a single plataform, to make it easier to new players, then I think all four remaning games will be in the next collection(s??) one way or another.

member_10578644
11th Oct 2012, 16:08
Well the opening scene of KH3D.....im guessing that's what's happening in KHIII bringing back ventus,aqua,terra,xion, and roxas with the addition of kairi and axel as keyblade wielders.....although im not sure how one could do that


On the opening, I agree with most of what your saying except the Xion or Roxas would come back, it's more of a reprisentation that they are important, because in truth, they are both within Sora's heart. Also Xion can't come back because in essence she never existed and so no one remembers her (she's also a part of Roxas whose a part of Sora) and Roxas can't come back because he's part Sora (and POSSIBLE SPOLIER part of Ventus) and if they brought him back they might as well have an Axel for Lea and Xigbar for Braig, ect.

Ryutim
11th Oct 2012, 18:43
That's alright, there's still 2.5 (hopefully), so maybe there'll be a secret movie in that. In fact, it'd be even better that way, because I'd rather not go out of order, and having KH3 before 2.5 wouldn't be any good for the new KH fans who have only started the series with KH1.5, and who might not have a ps2 with which to go back and play the original KH2.









I don't think anyone belives that. Actually, 2.X in 2014 is a no brainer. But which games will it have? I saw some interesting theories on gaf:

<ul>
chronologically 2.5 would mean: KH 2 FM+, Re:Coded and DDD
KH 2 FM+ and Re:Coded togheter would be something like 2.1
obviously, BbS FM is KH0
[/list]

So, it's possible that the next collection won't be 2.5, instead, it could be 2.1 + 0 or 2.5 + 0. I think everyone here agrees that Re:Coded will be a movie. Now, whether DDD will be a movie or playable or not appear at all remains a mystery. Some people trully believe that Re:Coded has no importance at all and they would drop it, but I don't agree. DDD Spoilers: The scene at Disney Castle, with Pete and Maleficent, makes me belive that they will use the datascape in KH 3 for some kinda of evil plan. If the whole point is to join every game on a single plataform, to make it easier to new players, then I think all four remaning games will be in the next collection(s??) one way or another.








*Spoilers*


Re:coded also had an interesting point regarding the nature of heartless, although I'm not entirely sure how to analyse it, but it showed that Sora's heartless was able to survive by hiding inside the journal, which seems to show that heartless are made up of the darkness inside the heart, but they don't require a heart to exist, and that a heart can take form without a body and without being a heartless (that being proved by having Sora, Roxas, and Sora's heartless in existence all at once. I know that this is probably common knowledge to most KH fans, but the Re:coded was the first indication of it that I saw, and that's why I'm mentioning it.). Anyway, I think that DDD is too recent a game to be included, even considering that the KH 2.5 remix (or whatever you call it) won't come out for another couple years or so, but I think that BBS FM would be a nice addition to the remix.

Ryutim
11th Oct 2012, 18:48
That's alright, there's still 2.5 (hopefully), so maybe there'll be a secret movie in that. In fact, it'd be even better that way, because I'd rather not go out of order, and having KH3 before 2.5 wouldn't be any good for the new KH fans who have only started the series with KH1.5, and who might not have a ps2 with which to go back and play the original KH2.






Actually, I highly doubt they would ever have a new secret ending sense it's the same game as before, also, they would be doing a injustice to their fans if they came out with this, they already said KH3 is the next one.





Even so, I think it's an injustice to KH fans (everywhere but in japan) that we don't have the FMs, so they should still release these remixes in america, even if they decide to release KH3 beforehand, and if, by some chance, they release the second remix first, then I don't see why they wouldn't have an additional secret movie in order to amp up our expectations for KH3.

member_10827409
11th Oct 2012, 19:21
Good luck

vitornavarrete
11th Oct 2012, 20:12
Well the opening scene of KH3D.....im guessing that's what's happening in KHIII bringing back ventus,aqua,terra,xion, and roxas with the addition of kairi and axel as keyblade wielders.....although im not sure how one could do that






On the opening, I agree with most of what your saying except the Xion or Roxas would come back, it's more of a reprisentation that they are important, because in truth, they are both within Sora's heart. Also Xion can't come back because in essence she never existed and so no one remembers her (she's also a part of Roxas whose a part of Sora) and Roxas can't come back because he's part Sora (and POSSIBLE SPOLIER part of Ventus) and if they brought him back they might as well have an Axel for Lea and Xigbar for Braig, ect.






DDD SPOILERS:


www.youtube.com/watch?v=eP7RP3RFXe8&t=8m... (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eP7RP3RFXe8&t=8m25s)


I won't quote the whole dialogue, but this part is the most important part:


Ansem the Wise: "- Perhaps... he[Sora] has the power to bring back the hearts (Ventus, Terra) and existances (Roxas, Naminé, Xion) of those connected to him - to recreate people we thought were lost to us forever. Our most precious treasures - even an empty puppet (Xion again) - the trees of the forest, and the petals on the wind - there are hearts around us everywhere we look." The names in parenthesis are just my personal insight to whom those mentions apply. He makes more remarks "Sora has a heart like that - uncorrupeted, willing to see the good before the bad. When he sees a heart in something, it then becomes real. When a connection seems broken, he may have the power to mend it. He has touched countless hearts, he has accepted them and he has saved them. And some of those hearts have never left him - whether they fell into darkness (Roxas or Xion) or were trapped there (Roxas or Xion) - whether they sleep in the darkness of Sora's heart (Ventus at the end of BbS), or were welcomed into its warmth (when he saved Ventus in the beggining of BbS) - they can be saved. All Sora needs to do is be himself and follow wherever it is that his heart takes him (That's exactly what Sora does at the end of DDD). It is the best and the only way. The rest is in there (data that Riku retrieved)"


Another remarks:

<ul>
Ansem and Xemnas both confirmed that is possible to nobodies to grown their own heart (Ansem talk implies that this is true to anything, puppets included).
Ansem stated three times that he wants to attone for his crimes: KH II (before the explosion), BbS (secret ending, talking with Aqua) and DDD (talking with Riku). For that he hidden data inside Sora and as seen before in the video, that's the key to save everyone.
In KHI Sora and Roxas existed at the same time. Sora's new body was created by Kairi's light and Sora's will of doing no harm to others (Ansem says that on the video I posted).
Sure, no one remembers/know about Xion, except Sora and Riku. Sora saw her in his dream (maybe he doesn't remember her) but Riku saw her inside Sora, togheter with Roxas and Ventus while diving in Sora's heart (if this isn't an implication that the hearts of the three of them are inside Sora, I really don't know what it is).
And the more important thing related to Roxas and Xion: Axel's Promise. We know from Chain of Memories, that even if one forgets a promise, it will stay in one's heart. That's what happened between Sora and Naminé. He forgot the promise, because the links of the chain of memories were broken, but the promises were still there. Sames goes for Axel, he still has the promise he made to Xion inside him. And Naminé probably has the power to see it and/or bring it back. Also, the whole point of Axel's turning into a Keyblade Master is to bring Roxas back, or that's what is implied with him saying his promise over and over during DDD.
[/list]
If those points aren't enough to prove to you that Roxas, Xion and Naminé can exist again, I really can't try to change your mind. Sure, one thing is the possibility being there, the other thing is if this will really happen. The thing is, if it didn't, there is a lot of useless speechs in key scenes of the series and that would be a terrible mistake in therms of narrative and Nomura's writting is to good to make something like this (Chekhov's gun principle en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chekhov%27s_gun (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chekhov%27s_gun)).

tl;dr


Roxas and Xion have hearts, they are inside Sora's, togheter with Ventus's. The same can be said about Naminé, but her is inside Kairi.
Bodies can be created from (almost) nothing (Sora's body on KH 1). So they just have to recreate Roxas, Xion and Naminé's bodies since they already have their hearts and memories.

P.S.: The thing about having a Xigbar for Braig and a Axel for Lea. First, this obviously doesn't apply to Xion's case. But it doesn't apply to Roxas and Naminé case either. Ansem's Secret Reports states very clearly that Roxas and Naminé are special nobodies. The first because Sora gave up his heart of his own free will to save Kairi and the latter because it was created when Kairi's heart left Sora's body instead of her own body. Roxas, for example didn't have any of Sora's memories, while every nobody keeps their memories. Remember, Roxas and Sora coexisted for almost one month. Why would that be impossible to happen again? And, how was Naminé even created if there wasn't a body and soul for that, since Sora's was what made Roxas?

Ryutim
12th Oct 2012, 16:25
*Spoilers*


That's an interesting point, we don't really know how Namine was made. The best explination I can think of is that she was made when Kairi's heart first went into Sora, so her heart was in Sora, and her body became Namine, but what was it that created the body that still looked exactly like Kairi, but was totally inanimate (until Sora came near it with Kairi's heart in him)? Is there some part of a person that is apart from the heart and the body, and also isn't darkness? We know that the heart, the body, and the darkness inside a person can all take form independantly (the person him/herself [like how Sora was able to be himself when Kairi hugged him after he'd become a heartless], a nobody [such as Roxas], and a heartless [like Sora's heartless that hid in the journal, and was finally killed in Re:coded].), but what's left to take form if all of that is already taken (Kairi's heart was in Sora, and Namine already existed, and Kairi, being a princess of heart, had no darkness to take form.)? The only thing I can think of would be light, but if light is powerful enough to take form all on it's own, then why was her light formed body almost completely inanimate, and moreover, why doesn't the light in other people take it's own form when their normal forms are seperated into all their different parts (body, heart, darkness, light)? The only reason I can think of is that the light get's caught up with the heart inside the heartless's darkness, but even so, I think that Sora had a lot more light than he had darkness, so was his light maybe trapped inside his heart, and if so, then why wasn't Kairi's light kept within her own heart, rather than taking form all on it's own, or was there simply too much of it, so some of it had to come off during the seperation? Some of these questions might have already been answered, I haven't read the interviews or the ultimania stuff, so I wouldn't know, but regardless, all insights are welcome.

member_10578644
12th Oct 2012, 16:49
That's alright, there's still 2.5 (hopefully), so maybe there'll be a secret movie in that. In fact, it'd be even better that way, because I'd rather not go out of order, and having KH3 before 2.5 wouldn't be any good for the new KH fans who have only started the series with KH1.5, and who might not have a ps2 with which to go back and play the original KH2.






Actually, I highly doubt they would ever have a new secret ending sense it's the same game as before, also, they would be doing a injustice to their fans if they came out with this, they already said KH3 is the next one.





Even so, I think it's an injustice to KH fans (everywhere but in japan) that we don't have the FMs, so they should still release these remixes in america, even if they decide to release KH3 beforehand, and if, by some chance, they release the second remix first, then I don't see why they wouldn't have an additional secret movie in order to amp up our expectations for KH3.


Well the American market for KH isn't quiet big enough to make a game just for us (just from opinion)

member_10578644
12th Oct 2012, 17:17
Well the opening scene of KH3D.....im guessing that's what's happening in KHIII bringing back ventus,aqua,terra,xion, and roxas with the addition of kairi and axel as keyblade wielders.....although im not sure how one could do that






On the opening, I agree with most of what your saying except the Xion or Roxas would come back, it's more of a reprisentation that they are important, because in truth, they are both within Sora's heart. Also Xion can't come back because in essence she never existed and so no one remembers her (she's also a part of Roxas whose a part of Sora) and Roxas can't come back because he's part Sora (and POSSIBLE SPOLIER part of Ventus) and if they brought him back they might as well have an Axel for Lea and Xigbar for Braig, ect.






DDD SPOILERS:


www.youtube.com/watch?v=eP7RP3RFXe8&t=8m... (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eP7RP3RFXe8&t=8m25s)


I won't quote the whole dialogue, but this part is the most important part:


Ansem the Wise: "- Perhaps... he[Sora] has the power to bring back the hearts (Ventus, Terra) and existances (Roxas, Naminé, Xion) of those connected to him - to recreate people we thought were lost to us forever. Our most precious treasures - even an empty puppet (Xion again) - the trees of the forest, and the petals on the wind - there are hearts around us everywhere we look." The names in parenthesis are just my personal insight to whom those mentions apply. He makes more remarks "Sora has a heart like that - uncorrupeted, willing to see the good before the bad. When he sees a heart in something, it then becomes real. When a connection seems broken, he may have the power to mend it. He has touched countless hearts, he has accepted them and he has saved them. And some of those hearts have never left him - whether they fell into darkness (Roxas or Xion) or were trapped there (Roxas or Xion) - whether they sleep in the darkness of Sora's heart (Ventus at the end of BbS), or were welcomed into its warmth (when he saved Ventus in the beggining of BbS) - they can be saved. All Sora needs to do is be himself and follow wherever it is that his heart takes him (That's exactly what Sora does at the end of DDD). It is the best and the only way. The rest is in there (data that Riku retrieved)"


Another remarks:

<ul>
Ansem and Xemnas both confirmed that is possible to nobodies to grown their own heart (Ansem talk implies that this is true to anything, puppets included).
Ansem stated three times that he wants to attone for his crimes: KH II (before the explosion), BbS (secret ending, talking with Aqua) and DDD (talking with Riku). For that he hidden data inside Sora and as seen before in the video, that's the key to save everyone.
In KHI Sora and Roxas existed at the same time. Sora's new body was created by Kairi's light and Sora's will of doing no harm to others (Ansem says that on the video I posted).
Sure, no one remembers/know about Xion, except Sora and Riku. Sora saw her in his dream (maybe he doesn't remember her) but Riku saw her inside Sora, togheter with Roxas and Ventus while diving in Sora's heart (if this isn't an implication that the hearts of the three of them are inside Sora, I really don't know what it is).
And the more important thing related to Roxas and Xion: Axel's Promise. We know from Chain of Memories, that even if one forgets a promise, it will stay in one's heart. That's what happened between Sora and Naminé. He forgot the promise, because the links of the chain of memories were broken, but the promises were still there. Sames goes for Axel, he still has the promise he made to Xion inside him. And Naminé probably has the power to see it and/or bring it back. Also, the whole point of Axel's turning into a Keyblade Master is to bring Roxas back, or that's what is implied with him saying his promise over and over during DDD.
[/list]
If those points aren't enough to prove to you that Roxas, Xion and Naminé can exist again, I really can't try to change your mind. Sure, one thing is the possibility being there, the other thing is if this will really happen. The thing is, if it didn't, there is a lot of useless speechs in key scenes of the series and that would be a terrible mistake in therms of narrative and Nomura's writting is to good to make something like this (Chekhov's gun principle en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chekhov%27s_gun (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chekhov%27s_gun)).

tl;dr


Roxas and Xion have hearts, they are inside Sora's, togheter with Ventus's. The same can be said about Naminé, but her is inside Kairi.
Bodies can be created from (almost) nothing (Sora's body on KH 1). So they just have to recreate Roxas, Xion and Naminé's bodies since they already have their hearts and memories.

P.S.: The thing about having a Xigbar for Braig and a Axel for Lea. First, this obviously doesn't apply to Xion's case. But it doesn't apply to Roxas and Naminé case either. Ansem's Secret Reports states very clearly that Roxas and Naminé are special nobodies. The first because Sora gave up his heart of his own free will to save Kairi and the latter because it was created when Kairi's heart left Sora's body instead of her own body. Roxas, for example didn't have any of Sora's memories, while every nobody keeps their memories. Remember, Roxas and Sora coexisted for almost one month. Why would that be impossible to happen again? And, how was Naminé even created if there wasn't a body and soul for that, since Sora's was what made Roxas?

Okay, to those who don't want spoliers don't read and also, Vltor, stop using the yellow, I can barely read what your saying when you do that.


Now, I won't say that either of us is right or wrong (we won't know until the third), but in my opinion the reason Ansem said they were special was 1) Namine was, and is, the only nobody to come from a princess of heart and 2) my theory that Roxas didn't have any memories is because he is a nobody to two people, Sora AND Ventus, because both of their hearts were together when Sora stabbed himself with the keyblade (Also my theory of why Roxas and Ventus look almost the exact same).


The part about recreating people who were lost I believe has to do with Aqua, Terra, and Ventus, who are believed to be "Gone forever" and as for the puppet, I feel that's more of a reference to when they helped Pinochio, because Sora saved him (say what you will about that, but it's just what I think). As for the nobodies having hearts, that's not what they said, it's that the 'Body' (Nobody) is used to having a heart within it, so it will almost create its own imaginary version of it as compensation (That's what the people in the organization had that other nobodies didn't). Also with Xion, even if Sora saw her, he doesn't know who she is, and Riku never saw her in DDD, he saw that Sora say Terra, Aqua, and Ven.


As for Axel's promise, I feel he does that by helping Sora, he knows that Roxas is Sora's nobody, so that's how he does it, not by taking part of Sora from him.


Also Sora and Kiari didn't create Sora a body from almost nothing, the whole style of KH is that Light and Darkness are the most powerfull things and make up everything in every world, so they accumulated the light from within their hearts to create the body, and let me remind you Kiari is a princess of heart which means her heart only has light, giving her the edge to use it like that.


And one other thing, Sora and Roxas co-existed for exactly one year, that's the whole idea of 358/2 days.

vitornavarrete
12th Oct 2012, 17:42
Ryutim, let's go by parts, I'm my be off at some point, but I don't think so:


1 - A person is made of three things: body, soul and heart.


2 - A heart is made of up to two things: light and darkness.


We know eight persons with have (had) hearts made of pure light: the seven princesses of hearts and Ventus. When Master Xehanort extraced the darkness in Ventus's heart in order to creat Vanitas, Ventus's heart was broken. He only managed to survive because Sora's heart filled the remaining part (that's why Vanitas looks like Sora), making Ventus the eighth person with a heart of pure light. The only person with a heart made of pure darkness that we know about is Ventus's somebody, Vanitas. But when they clashed at the end of BbS, creating the X-Blase, Ventus was able to make his heart whole again (darkness and light) and now it sleeps inside Sora.


How normally a heartless is made? We know two ways: 1 - When the person's heart gives in to the darkness (www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uqg4YPHX6k&t=4m... (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uqg4YPHX6k&t=4m17s)) 2 - When your heart is freed by a keyblade. In KH1 we thouht it was only possible with the Keyblade of Hearts, but Xehanort (that for all that we know is a Keyblade of Light) freed hearts sometimes: here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C31Y6paRHE4&t=30s here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kubhibkipA&t=6m50s and here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVNTd7fwTUA It appears that any keyblade master can free his own heart. The second time is a really special one, because, for all that we know Xehanort's and Terra's are inside Terranort (possibly Eraqus' heart too). Why did Terranort free that time? My guess is that only he soul was set free and this goes hand in hand with my theory that soul = memories in this universe. That would explain why he doesn't have any memories at all. But this may be totally off.


Why Sora became a heartless, togheter with Ansem's apprentices, and others hearts, that were free for sometime, Ventus and Xehanort, did not? My theory is that when you heart is free it will start to give in to the darkness in itself (if it is a heart of pure light that doesn't apply), but if you manage to hid it inside of another body, that won't happen.


Now the Nobody part. If one of strong will becames a heartless, his empty body and soul will become a Nobody. A normal nobody mantain all his memories (this goes in hand with soul = memories). Roxas had Ven's heart but didn't have Sora's memories (again soul), that's why he is almost lifeless at the begining of his life. Kairi created a body for Sora using his light and Sora was whole again (body, heart and soul) while Roxas started to gain memories (soul) having Sora's body and Ven's heart. But he started to grow his own heart, because was exposed to emotions. I think the soul=memories also have a part in this.


But then, Naminé. She is the most strange case. First, we know when she was created, it was when Kairi's heart left Sora's body. When Kairi lost her heart her body remaind lifeless, instead of becoming a nobody, because she had a heart of pure light. You body only turns into a nobody if you have at least some darkness in your heart. But when Sora freed Kairi's heart, she became whole again and Naminé was created. The thing is, she is not lifeless like Roxas and, because of her power with memories, it looks like she knows the memories of everyone connected to Sora. Then, it's kinda like she doesn't need a soul to have life, like all nobodies, it's more like she has a bit of everyone's soul. Up until this I can kinda of understand. But, what made her body? We know that she appeared at Castle Oblivion, were Ventus's body is. Are those facts related?
And, a least question is, why didn't Ventus's became a nobody? His body and soul are at castle oblivion. Does your body only turns into a nobody once you heart becames a heartless? That would explain why Old Xehanort also didn't turn into one.

vitornavarrete
12th Oct 2012, 18:57
Okay, to those who don't want spoliers don't read and also, Vltor, stop using the yellow, I can barely read what your saying when you do that.


Now, I won't say that either of us is right or wrong (we won't know until the third), but in my opinion the reason Ansem said they were special was 1) Namine was, and is, the only nobody to come from a princess of heart and 2) my theory that Roxas didn't have any memories is because he is a nobody to two people, Sora AND Ventus, because both of their hearts were together when Sora stabbed himself with the keyblade (Also my theory of why Roxas and Ventus look almost the exact same).


The part about recreating people who were lost I believe has to do with Aqua, Terra, and Ventus, who are believed to be "Gone forever" and as for the puppet, I feel that's more of a reference to when they helped Pinochio, because Sora saved him (say what you will about that, but it's just what I think). As for the nobodies having hearts, that's not what they said, it's that the 'Body' (Nobody) is used to having a heart within it, so it will almost create its own imaginary version of it as compensation (That's what the people in the organization had that other nobodies didn't). Also with Xion, even if Sora saw her, he doesn't know who she is, and Riku never saw her in DDD, he saw that Sora say Terra, Aqua, and Ven.


As for Axel's promise, I feel he does that by helping Sora, he knows that Roxas is Sora's nobody, so that's how he does it, not by taking part of Sora from him.


Also Sora and Kiari didn't create Sora a body from almost nothing, the whole style of KH is that Light and Darkness are the most powerfull things and make up everything in every world, so they accumulated the light from within their hearts to create the body, and let me remind you Kiari is a princess of heart which means her heart only has light, giving her the edge to use it like that.


And one other thing, Sora and Roxas co-existed for exactly one year, that's the whole idea of 358/2 days.









Sorry 'bout the yellow thing. I'm just used to doing this to avoid giving spoilers since ever, but to be able to read you just need to select the text ^^ But since the title of this thread is a spoiler in itself, I will stop using it. Like you said, we won't know anything till KH3, so everything I'll say is again my opinions of your opinions XD. Let's go by parts:


Roxas doesn't having memories: Ok, I can accept your theory. It would also help to explain why Terranort doesn't have any memories. But, at the begining he had, when he fights Lingering Will. He loses his memories after that, maybe because Terra's and Xehanort's heart are fighting over the body. I know Terranort isn't a nobody, but the fact of being two persons in one may be the reasoning of not having memories. Also, Roxas being nobody of Sora and Ventus is possible, but not likely. I'm pretty sure Nomura itself confirmed tha a) Ventus's heart is inside Roxas, and b) That's the reason why Roxas looks like Ven. Again, it's possible, but I don't have a strong belief in it.


Aqua, Terra e Ventus: of those three, the only one who "needs" to be recreated is Terra. Aqua is only lost (maybe the "gone forever" part). Ventus heart is only sleeping and for waking they don't need Ansem help. Yen Sid took care of it when he made Sora and Riku go to the sleeping worlds. The whole point of this kind of Mark of Mastey exam was for them to gain the new power, one to awake a sleeping heart. That's how Riku brought Sora back and probably the way to save Ventus too. This also may be related to save Terra's heart/body from Xehanort. I really think that Sora will awake Ventus and Riku will save Terra. And know I'm thinking that Kairi will to realm of darkness with Mickey to save Aqua, since she is imune to darkness. That would be a nice closure to the events of BbS. But know its looking like fanfiction.


But, now to why I don't think Ansem is refering to T/V/A: Ansem doesn't know them. He know Terranort but he doesn't know the story behind him, even Mickey didn't recognise he was Terra. While yes, this may be Nomura hinting about T/V/A situation, from the narrative standpoint it doesn't make sense. Why would a character be talking of how save other characters that he even doesn't know about? Ansem said, countless time, that he hid data inside Sora to atone for his crimes. What crimes were those? First, he taught Xehanort and fells guilty about this, because Xehanort messed up the worlds, but Sora took care of this. Second, he, while pursuing revenge, messed up with peoples life. Riku looks was his fault. And the other crime he commited:

<ul>
Roxas: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEYeNfCXLZM&t=1m48s
Naminé/Axel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xebKRA-qnFA
[/list]

When he talks that he wants to atone for his crimes and data for doing there's no other link possible to make that not Roxas and Naminé. Also, the good guys have two "generals", Yen Sid (took Mickey place since KH2) and Ansem. Like I said, Yen Sid is working about the T/V/A, agains, that's why the MoM exam was like that. The same way Ansem doesn't have anything to do with T/V/A, Yen Sid doesn't have a relation with the nobodies. Those are separeted problems. And to add on more thing to my point: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYNnogO-DJI&t=6m24s


"I did terrible things, both to him and to his friends. I brought unhappines to more lives than one. I felt something must be done, that's why as mean of clearing my conciousness, or perhaps out of a sort of caprice, while the boy slept his own sleep, I hid the results of my own research inside him, transplanting the data to where it might best serve a purpose. In fact I would like to belive I'm setting things right. A boy like him who touchs many hearts, he could open the right door and save all those peoples who lives I maneged to end. So many are still waiting for their new beggining - their birth by sleep. Even me and even you."


Because of the "even" we can say that the primary objective is not Aqua. And, again, while it can mean something about T/V, the only life that Ansem ended was Roxas'. And he may think that Naminé and Axel fits, since he told Riku to destroy them and he may belive that this happened.


About Xion/Pinochio: C'mom, while I can see your other points, here I can only think you said something totally off. First Pinnochio was "saved" by Sora. In the first KH, at some point, we think he lost his heart, but were proven wrong right after, he was okay. IIRC his nose even grows. But, my point here is: C'mom, Ansem is giving a whole speech why and how Sora can save the lost protagonist of the series (be it about T/V/A or R/N) and bring they back and, out of nowhere, he would make an reference to a Disney character? Pinochio only appeared in the first KH (DDD is only dreams, so that doesn't count), there's no reason at all to Ansem mention him.
And, like I said, Sora dreamed about Xion, yes he doesn't now who she is and maybe, after waking up, he doesn't even remember her. But Riku talked to her inside Sora: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eP7RP3RFXe8&t=7m6s and yes he doesn't know who she is, but it wasn't a dream so he won't forget. Once again, Ansem new about the replicas project, since he was spying the Organization, but, for all that you know, he doesn't know Pinochio. Why would he make a reference to him? When he said a puppet, he might as well be talking about Riku's replica. And, while noone remembers Xion, those memories are there, the same way when, at the beggining of KH II Kairi and Selphie didn't remember Sora. If they retrieve Naminé, she can bring those memories back.


About Axel's Promise: This I can give to you, he talking about it may have no foreshadow attached to it. But it also can, so let's put this point to rest.


About Nobodies having hearts: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D67rH_fjRhA&t=15m05s


Sora says clearly that Axel, Roxas, Naminé and that other girl (after the dream he still remembers her) had hearts. Whether they are true or fake doesn't matter. They serve the purpose of enabling fellings. Ansem said that Sora can see a heart if there is one to see. So R/N/X have hearts and, if they ever come to be again, they will have hearts.
About Sora's body made of light: You took me too seriously here. I'm not diminishing the power of light or anything, on the contrary, I'm talking about how strong it is. Kairi and Sora, out of only their will and power were able to create a new body to Sora. They didn't have guidance or knowlodge to do so. But now, with Yen Sid's guidance and the results of Ansem research how much can they achieve with this power? The thing is, I think this power is so great that they can bring both T/V/A and R/N/X back.


About coexistence of body/nobody: Yeah you're right, I didn't express myself correctly on this one. Roxas and Sora coexisted for a whole year. But, in the first 20 days or so, Sora was a whole being (body, heart and soul) and Roxas was starting to be awere of himself. This could have gone forever and they would be two whole beings. The problem was that, because Naminé messed with Sora's memories, they scaped to Roxas and, because of the organization, the memories then moved to Xion. When Roxas defeated Xion, the memories went back to Roxas. For Sora to have his memories again, DiZ made that whole plot of an Digital Twilight Town, for Sora to absorve Roxas, together with the memories. The thin is, during this whole time Naminé and Kairi also coexisted with no implications at all. Actually, I think we still don't know how Naminé was absorved by Kairi, since in KH 2 they are walking together, giving hands, then Naminé isn't there anymore. All of a sudden Naminé "spirits" appears and open a corridor then goes back into Kairi. How de heck they become one whole being again? The only reason I see for this is making the narrative easier, but, still, I hope we will see a better explanation for this one day. Anyways, the thing is, outside the problem of Sora's memories going into Roxas, there was no reason for Sora, Roxas, Kairi and Naminé to not exist in the same world. No reason at all.





P.S.: Sorry for the typos, I'm in a hurry here.

DOOMMonkey224
12th Oct 2012, 19:00
You guys are fails. Nomura has allready revailed that he is making kingdom hearts 1.5. This will include KH1 final mix and RE: COM as well as 2-3 hours of optional cut scences in theater mode for 358/2 days. They will all be in remastered HD. They will both have extra stuff such as trophies but no ending movie.

DOOMMonkey224
12th Oct 2012, 19:25
Okay, to those who don't want spoliers don't read and also, Vltor, stop using the yellow, I can barely read what your saying when you do that.


Now, I won't say that either of us is right or wrong (we won't know until the third), but in my opinion the reason Ansem said they were special was 1) Namine was, and is, the only nobody to come from a princess of heart and 2) my theory that Roxas didn't have any memories is because he is a nobody to two people, Sora AND Ventus, because both of their hearts were together when Sora stabbed himself with the keyblade (Also my theory of why Roxas and Ventus look almost the exact same).


The part about recreating people who were lost I believe has to do with Aqua, Terra, and Ventus, who are believed to be "Gone forever" and as for the puppet, I feel that's more of a reference to when they helped Pinochio, because Sora saved him (say what you will about that, but it's just what I think). As for the nobodies having hearts, that's not what they said, it's that the 'Body' (Nobody) is used to having a heart within it, so it will almost create its own imaginary version of it as compensation (That's what the people in the organization had that other nobodies didn't). Also with Xion, even if Sora saw her, he doesn't know who she is, and Riku never saw her in DDD, he saw that Sora say Terra, Aqua, and Ven.


As for Axel's promise, I feel he does that by helping Sora, he knows that Roxas is Sora's nobody, so that's how he does it, not by taking part of Sora from him.


Also Sora and Kiari didn't create Sora a body from almost nothing, the whole style of KH is that Light and Darkness are the most powerfull things and make up everything in every world, so they accumulated the light from within their hearts to create the body, and let me remind you Kiari is a princess of heart which means her heart only has light, giving her the edge to use it like that.


And one other thing, Sora and Roxas co-existed for exactly one year, that's the whole idea of 358/2 days.









I'M STILL FINISHING THIS. SO WAIT A LITTLE BIT TO REPPLY XD





Sorry 'bout the yellow thing. I'm just used to doing this to avoid giving spoilers since ever, but to be able to read you just need to select the text ^^ But since the title of this thread is a spoiler in itself, I will stop using it. Like you said, we won't know anything till KH3, so everything I'll say is again my opinions of your opinions XD. Let's go by parts:


Roxas doesn't having memories: Ok, I can accept your theory. It would also help to explain why Terranort doesn't have any memories. But, at the begining he had, when he fights Lingering Will. He loses his memories after that, maybe because Terra's and Xehanort's heart are fighting over the body. I know Terranort isn't a nobody, but the fact of being two persons in one may be the reasoning of not having memories. Also, Roxas being nobody of Sora and Ventus is possible, but not likely. I'm pretty sure Nomura itself confirmed tha a) Ventus's heart is inside Roxas, and b) That's the reason why Roxas looks like Ven. Again, it's possible, but I don't have a strong belief in it.


Aqua, Terra e Ventus: of those three, the only one who "needs" to be recreated is Terra. Aqua is only lost (maybe the "gone forever" part). Ventus heart is only sleeping and for waking they don't need Ansem help. Yen Sid took care of it when he made Sora and Riku go to the sleeping worlds. The whole point of this kind of Mark of Mastey exam was for them to gain the new power, one to awake a sleeping heart. That's how Riku brought Sora back and probably the way to save Ventus too. This also may be related to save Terra's heart/body from Xehanort. I really think that Sora will awake Ventus and Riku will save Terra. And know I'm thinking that Kairi will to realm of darkness with Mickey to save Aqua, since she is imune to darkness. That would be a nice closure to the events of BbS. But know its looking like fanfiction.


But, now to why I don't think Ansem is refering to T/V/A: Ansem doesn't know them. He know Terranort but he doesn't know the story behind him, even Mickey didn't recognise he was Terra. While yes, this may be Nomura hinting about T/V/A situation, from the narrative standpoint it doesn't make sense. Why would a character be talking of how save other characters that he even doesn't know about? Ansem said, countless time, that he hid data inside Sora to atone for his crimes. What crimes were those? First, he taught Xehanort and fells guilty about this, because Xehanort messed up the worlds, but Sora took care of this. Second, he, while pursuing revenge, messed up with peoples life. Riku looks was his fault. And the other crime he commited:

<ul>
Roxas: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEYeNfCXLZM&t=1m48s
Naminé/Axel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xebKRA-qnFA
[/list]

When he talks that he wants to atone for his crimes and data for doing there's no other link possible to make that not Roxas and Naminé. Also, the good guys have two "generals", Yen Sid (took Mickey place since KH2) and Ansem. Like I said, Yen Sid is working about the T/V/A, agains, that's why the MoM exam was like that. The same way Ansem doesn't have anything to do with T/V/A, Yen Sid doesn't have a relation with the nobodies. Those are separeted problems. And to add on more thing to my point: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYNnogO-DJI&t=6m24s


"I did terrible things, both to him and to his friends. I brought unhappines to more lives than one. I felt something must be done, that's why as mean of clearing my conciousness, or perhaps out of a sort of caprice, while the boy slept his own sleep, I hid the results of my own research inside him, transplanting the data to where it might best serve a purpose. In fact I would like to belive I'm setting things right. A boy like him who touchs many hearts, he could open the right door and save all those peoples who lives I maneged to end. So many are still waiting for their new beggining - their birth by sleep. Even me and even you."


Because of the "even" we can say that the primary objective is not Aqua. And, again, while it can mean something about T/V, the only life that Ansem ended was Roxas'. And he may think that Naminé and Axel fits, since he told Riku to destroy them and he may belive that this happened.


About Xion/Pinochio: C'mom, while I can see you other points, here I can only thing you said that are totally. First Pinnochio was "saved" by Sora. In the first KH, at some point, we think he lost his heart, but were proven wrong right after, he was okay. IIRC his nose even grows. But, my point here is: C'mom, Ansem is giving a whole speech why and how Sora can save the lost protagonist of the series (be it about T/V/A or R/N) and bring they back and, out of nowhere, he would make an reference to a Disney character? Pinochio only appeared in the first KH (DDD is only dreams, so that doesn't count), there's no reason at all to Ansem mention him.
And, like I said, Sora dreamed about Xion, yes he doesn't now who she is and maybe, after waking up, he doesn't even remember her. But Riku talked to her inside Sora:


About Axel's Promise: This I can give to you, he talking about it may have no foreshadow attached to it. But it also can, so let's put this point to rest.


About Nobodies having hearts:
About Sora's body made of light:


About coexistence of body/nobody:


The reason Roxas and Ven look almoset identical(exept for the close) is because they share the same body.Ven's heart merged with Sora's heart in its time of need. so when Sora stabed himself in Kingdom Hearts1 he relesed Ven's heart and it whent back to Ven's body.Most people did not know this but Roxas dose have a heart and is his own person.Thats why he can't remember his past because he dose not have his own past.Body of Ven,Ven's heart and part of sora's.When roxas was made, his body was enexistant so i found vens body.Sora's body was being used again by him self.That's why he crys when Xion dies, because oxas has a heart.And nobodys can't use keyblades because keyblade weilders are chosen by the strangth of their heart so Roxas has a hearts,yes(no Xion was not a nobody but a replica that used Sora's memries to get keyblade).

member_10578644
13th Oct 2012, 12:27
Okay, to those who don't want spoliers don't read and also, Vltor, stop using the yellow, I can barely read what your saying when you do that.


Now, I won't say that either of us is right or wrong (we won't know until the third), but in my opinion the reason Ansem said they were special was 1) Namine was, and is, the only nobody to come from a princess of heart and 2) my theory that Roxas didn't have any memories is because he is a nobody to two people, Sora AND Ventus, because both of their hearts were together when Sora stabbed himself with the keyblade (Also my theory of why Roxas and Ventus look almost the exact same).


The part about recreating people who were lost I believe has to do with Aqua, Terra, and Ventus, who are believed to be "Gone forever" and as for the puppet, I feel that's more of a reference to when they helped Pinochio, because Sora saved him (say what you will about that, but it's just what I think). As for the nobodies having hearts, that's not what they said, it's that the 'Body' (Nobody) is used to having a heart within it, so it will almost create its own imaginary version of it as compensation (That's what the people in the organization had that other nobodies didn't). Also with Xion, even if Sora saw her, he doesn't know who she is, and Riku never saw her in DDD, he saw that Sora say Terra, Aqua, and Ven.


As for Axel's promise, I feel he does that by helping Sora, he knows that Roxas is Sora's nobody, so that's how he does it, not by taking part of Sora from him.


Also Sora and Kiari didn't create Sora a body from almost nothing, the whole style of KH is that Light and Darkness are the most powerfull things and make up everything in every world, so they accumulated the light from within their hearts to create the body, and let me remind you Kiari is a princess of heart which means her heart only has light, giving her the edge to use it like that.


And one other thing, Sora and Roxas co-existed for exactly one year, that's the whole idea of 358/2 days.









Sorry 'bout the yellow thing. I'm just used to doing this to avoid giving spoilers since ever, but to be able to read you just need to select the text ^^ But since the title of this thread is a spoiler in itself, I will stop using it. Like you said, we won't know anything till KH3, so everything I'll say is again my opinions of your opinions XD. Let's go by parts:


Roxas doesn't having memories: Ok, I can accept your theory. It would also help to explain why Terranort doesn't have any memories. But, at the begining he had, when he fights Lingering Will. He loses his memories after that, maybe because Terra's and Xehanort's heart are fighting over the body. I know Terranort isn't a nobody, but the fact of being two persons in one may be the reasoning of not having memories. Also, Roxas being nobody of Sora and Ventus is possible, but not likely. I'm pretty sure Nomura itself confirmed tha a) Ventus's heart is inside Roxas, and b) That's the reason why Roxas looks like Ven. Again, it's possible, but I don't have a strong belief in it.


Aqua, Terra e Ventus: of those three, the only one who "needs" to be recreated is Terra. Aqua is only lost (maybe the "gone forever" part). Ventus heart is only sleeping and for waking they don't need Ansem help. Yen Sid took care of it when he made Sora and Riku go to the sleeping worlds. The whole point of this kind of Mark of Mastey exam was for them to gain the new power, one to awake a sleeping heart. That's how Riku brought Sora back and probably the way to save Ventus too. This also may be related to save Terra's heart/body from Xehanort. I really think that Sora will awake Ventus and Riku will save Terra. And know I'm thinking that Kairi will to realm of darkness with Mickey to save Aqua, since she is imune to darkness. That would be a nice closure to the events of BbS. But know its looking like fanfiction.


But, now to why I don't think Ansem is refering to T/V/A: Ansem doesn't know them. He know Terranort but he doesn't know the story behind him, even Mickey didn't recognise he was Terra. While yes, this may be Nomura hinting about T/V/A situation, from the narrative standpoint it doesn't make sense. Why would a character be talking of how save other characters that he even doesn't know about? Ansem said, countless time, that he hid data inside Sora to atone for his crimes. What crimes were those? First, he taught Xehanort and fells guilty about this, because Xehanort messed up the worlds, but Sora took care of this. Second, he, while pursuing revenge, messed up with peoples life. Riku looks was his fault. And the other crime he commited:

<ul>
Roxas: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEYeNfCXLZM&t=1m48s
Naminé/Axel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xebKRA-qnFA
[/list]

When he talks that he wants to atone for his crimes and data for doing there's no other link possible to make that not Roxas and Naminé. Also, the good guys have two "generals", Yen Sid (took Mickey place since KH2) and Ansem. Like I said, Yen Sid is working about the T/V/A, agains, that's why the MoM exam was like that. The same way Ansem doesn't have anything to do with T/V/A, Yen Sid doesn't have a relation with the nobodies. Those are separeted problems. And to add on more thing to my point: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYNnogO-DJI&t=6m24s


"I did terrible things, both to him and to his friends. I brought unhappines to more lives than one. I felt something must be done, that's why as mean of clearing my conciousness, or perhaps out of a sort of caprice, while the boy slept his own sleep, I hid the results of my own research inside him, transplanting the data to where it might best serve a purpose. In fact I would like to belive I'm setting things right. A boy like him who touchs many hearts, he could open the right door and save all those peoples who lives I maneged to end. So many are still waiting for their new beggining - their birth by sleep. Even me and even you."


Because of the "even" we can say that the primary objective is not Aqua. And, again, while it can mean something about T/V, the only life that Ansem ended was Roxas'. And he may think that Naminé and Axel fits, since he told Riku to destroy them and he may belive that this happened.


About Xion/Pinochio: C'mom, while I can see your other points, here I can only think you said something totally off. First Pinnochio was "saved" by Sora. In the first KH, at some point, we think he lost his heart, but were proven wrong right after, he was okay. IIRC his nose even grows. But, my point here is: C'mom, Ansem is giving a whole speech why and how Sora can save the lost protagonist of the series (be it about T/V/A or R/N) and bring they back and, out of nowhere, he would make an reference to a Disney character? Pinochio only appeared in the first KH (DDD is only dreams, so that doesn't count), there's no reason at all to Ansem mention him.
And, like I said, Sora dreamed about Xion, yes he doesn't now who she is and maybe, after waking up, he doesn't even remember her. But Riku talked to her inside Sora: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eP7RP3RFXe8&t=7m6s and yes he doesn't know who she is, but it wasn't a dream so he won't forget. Once again, Ansem new about the replicas project, since he was spying the Organization, but, for all that you know, he doesn't know Pinochio. Why would he make a reference to him? When he said a puppet, he might as well be talking about Riku's replica. And, while noone remembers Xion, those memories are there, the same way when, at the beggining of KH II Kairi and Selphie didn't remember Sora. If they retrieve Naminé, she can bring those memories back.


About Axel's Promise: This I can give to you, he talking about it may have no foreshadow attached to it. But it also can, so let's put this point to rest.


About Nobodies having hearts: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D67rH_fjRhA&t=15m05s


Sora says clearly that Axel, Roxas, Naminé and that other girl (after the dream he still remembers her) had hearts. Whether they are true or fake doesn't matter. They serve the purpose of enabling fellings. Ansem said that Sora can see a heart if there is one to see. So R/N/X have hearts and, if they ever come to be again, they will have hearts.
About Sora's body made of light: You took me too seriously here. I'm not diminishing the power of light or anything, on the contrary, I'm talking about how strong it is. Kairi and Sora, out of only their will and power were able to create a new body to Sora. They didn't have guidance or knowlodge to do so. But now, with Yen Sid's guidance and the results of Ansem research how much can they achieve with this power? The thing is, I think this power is so great that they can bring both T/V/A and R/N/X back.


About coexistence of body/nobody: Yeah you're right, I didn't express myself correctly on this one. Roxas and Sora coexisted for a whole year. But, in the first 20 days or so, Sora was a whole being (body, heart and soul) and Roxas was starting to be awere of himself. This could have gone forever and they would be two whole beings. The problem was that, because Naminé messed with Sora's memories, they scaped to Roxas and, because of the organization, the memories then moved to Xion. When Roxas defeated Xion, the memories went back to Roxas. For Sora to have his memories again, DiZ made that whole plot of an Digital Twilight Town, for Sora to absorve Roxas, together with the memories. The thin is, during this whole time Naminé and Kairi also coexisted with no implications at all. Actually, I think we still don't know how Naminé was absorved by Kairi, since in KH 2 they are walking together, giving hands, then Naminé isn't there anymore. All of a sudden Naminé "spirits" appears and open a corridor then goes back into Kairi. How de heck they become one whole being again? The only reason I see for this is making the narrative easier, but, still, I hope we will see a better explanation for this one day. Anyways, the thing is, outside the problem of Sora's memories going into Roxas, there was no reason for Sora, Roxas, Kairi and Naminé to not exist in the same world. No reason at all.





P.S.: Sorry for the typos, I'm in a hurry here.


I can see you have some good points and I guess with some things I'm having to same problem about expressing what I'm trying to say, but at least we are getting our ideas out there, maybe we can figure out what will happen next in the story XD

member_10578644
13th Oct 2012, 12:29
You guys are fails. Nomura has allready revailed that he is making kingdom hearts 1.5. This will include KH1 final mix and RE: COM as well as 2-3 hours of optional cut scences in theater mode for 358/2 days. They will all be in remastered HD. They will both have extra stuff such as trophies but no ending movie.


I'm not entirely doubting that, just saying it will only be good on the market in America (I just highly doubt that in Japan they will buy what they already have), but I don't think it will be coming out any time soon, they already confurmed the next release is KH3, so if your waiting for the HD collection, you will have to wait awhile.

member_10578644
13th Oct 2012, 12:32
Okay, to those who don't want spoliers don't read and also, Vltor, stop using the yellow, I can barely read what your saying when you do that.


Now, I won't say that either of us is right or wrong (we won't know until the third), but in my opinion the reason Ansem said they were special was 1) Namine was, and is, the only nobody to come from a princess of heart and 2) my theory that Roxas didn't have any memories is because he is a nobody to two people, Sora AND Ventus, because both of their hearts were together when Sora stabbed himself with the keyblade (Also my theory of why Roxas and Ventus look almost the exact same).


The part about recreating people who were lost I believe has to do with Aqua, Terra, and Ventus, who are believed to be "Gone forever" and as for the puppet, I feel that's more of a reference to when they helped Pinochio, because Sora saved him (say what you will about that, but it's just what I think). As for the nobodies having hearts, that's not what they said, it's that the 'Body' (Nobody) is used to having a heart within it, so it will almost create its own imaginary version of it as compensation (That's what the people in the organization had that other nobodies didn't). Also with Xion, even if Sora saw her, he doesn't know who she is, and Riku never saw her in DDD, he saw that Sora say Terra, Aqua, and Ven.


As for Axel's promise, I feel he does that by helping Sora, he knows that Roxas is Sora's nobody, so that's how he does it, not by taking part of Sora from him.


Also Sora and Kiari didn't create Sora a body from almost nothing, the whole style of KH is that Light and Darkness are the most powerfull things and make up everything in every world, so they accumulated the light from within their hearts to create the body, and let me remind you Kiari is a princess of heart which means her heart only has light, giving her the edge to use it like that.


And one other thing, Sora and Roxas co-existed for exactly one year, that's the whole idea of 358/2 days.









I'M STILL FINISHING THIS. SO WAIT A LITTLE BIT TO REPPLY XD





Sorry 'bout the yellow thing. I'm just used to doing this to avoid giving spoilers since ever, but to be able to read you just need to select the text ^^ But since the title of this thread is a spoiler in itself, I will stop using it. Like you said, we won't know anything till KH3, so everything I'll say is again my opinions of your opinions XD. Let's go by parts:


Roxas doesn't having memories: Ok, I can accept your theory. It would also help to explain why Terranort doesn't have any memories. But, at the begining he had, when he fights Lingering Will. He loses his memories after that, maybe because Terra's and Xehanort's heart are fighting over the body. I know Terranort isn't a nobody, but the fact of being two persons in one may be the reasoning of not having memories. Also, Roxas being nobody of Sora and Ventus is possible, but not likely. I'm pretty sure Nomura itself confirmed tha a) Ventus's heart is inside Roxas, and b) That's the reason why Roxas looks like Ven. Again, it's possible, but I don't have a strong belief in it.


Aqua, Terra e Ventus: of those three, the only one who "needs" to be recreated is Terra. Aqua is only lost (maybe the "gone forever" part). Ventus heart is only sleeping and for waking they don't need Ansem help. Yen Sid took care of it when he made Sora and Riku go to the sleeping worlds. The whole point of this kind of Mark of Mastey exam was for them to gain the new power, one to awake a sleeping heart. That's how Riku brought Sora back and probably the way to save Ventus too. This also may be related to save Terra's heart/body from Xehanort. I really think that Sora will awake Ventus and Riku will save Terra. And know I'm thinking that Kairi will to realm of darkness with Mickey to save Aqua, since she is imune to darkness. That would be a nice closure to the events of BbS. But know its looking like fanfiction.


But, now to why I don't think Ansem is refering to T/V/A: Ansem doesn't know them. He know Terranort but he doesn't know the story behind him, even Mickey didn't recognise he was Terra. While yes, this may be Nomura hinting about T/V/A situation, from the narrative standpoint it doesn't make sense. Why would a character be talking of how save other characters that he even doesn't know about? Ansem said, countless time, that he hid data inside Sora to atone for his crimes. What crimes were those? First, he taught Xehanort and fells guilty about this, because Xehanort messed up the worlds, but Sora took care of this. Second, he, while pursuing revenge, messed up with peoples life. Riku looks was his fault. And the other crime he commited:

<ul>
Roxas: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEYeNfCXLZM&t=1m48s
Naminé/Axel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xebKRA-qnFA
[/list]

When he talks that he wants to atone for his crimes and data for doing there's no other link possible to make that not Roxas and Naminé. Also, the good guys have two "generals", Yen Sid (took Mickey place since KH2) and Ansem. Like I said, Yen Sid is working about the T/V/A, agains, that's why the MoM exam was like that. The same way Ansem doesn't have anything to do with T/V/A, Yen Sid doesn't have a relation with the nobodies. Those are separeted problems. And to add on more thing to my point: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYNnogO-DJI&t=6m24s


"I did terrible things, both to him and to his friends. I brought unhappines to more lives than one. I felt something must be done, that's why as mean of clearing my conciousness, or perhaps out of a sort of caprice, while the boy slept his own sleep, I hid the results of my own research inside him, transplanting the data to where it might best serve a purpose. In fact I would like to belive I'm setting things right. A boy like him who touchs many hearts, he could open the right door and save all those peoples who lives I maneged to end. So many are still waiting for their new beggining - their birth by sleep. Even me and even you."


Because of the "even" we can say that the primary objective is not Aqua. And, again, while it can mean something about T/V, the only life that Ansem ended was Roxas'. And he may think that Naminé and Axel fits, since he told Riku to destroy them and he may belive that this happened.


About Xion/Pinochio: C'mom, while I can see you other points, here I can only thing you said that are totally. First Pinnochio was "saved" by Sora. In the first KH, at some point, we think he lost his heart, but were proven wrong right after, he was okay. IIRC his nose even grows. But, my point here is: C'mom, Ansem is giving a whole speech why and how Sora can save the lost protagonist of the series (be it about T/V/A or R/N) and bring they back and, out of nowhere, he would make an reference to a Disney character? Pinochio only appeared in the first KH (DDD is only dreams, so that doesn't count), there's no reason at all to Ansem mention him.
And, like I said, Sora dreamed about Xion, yes he doesn't now who she is and maybe, after waking up, he doesn't even remember her. But Riku talked to her inside Sora:


About Axel's Promise: This I can give to you, he talking about it may have no foreshadow attached to it. But it also can, so let's put this point to rest.


About Nobodies having hearts:
About Sora's body made of light:


About coexistence of body/nobody:


The reason Roxas and Ven look almoset identical(exept for the close) is because they share the same body.Ven's heart merged with Sora's heart in its time of need. so when Sora stabed himself in Kingdom Hearts1 he relesed Ven's heart and it whent back to Ven's body.Most people did not know this but Roxas dose have a heart and is his own person.Thats why he can't remember his past because he dose not have his own past.Body of Ven,Ven's heart and part of sora's.When roxas was made, his body was enexistant so i found vens body.Sora's body was being used again by him self.That's why he crys when Xion dies, because oxas has a heart.And nobodys can't use keyblades because keyblade weilders are chosen by the strangth of their heart so Roxas has a hearts,yes(no Xion was not a nobody but a replica that used Sora's memries to get keyblade).


Please don't take this rudly, but we already addressed most of this, and also, 1) Roxas has a keyblade because he came from a keyblade weilder, just like how the rest of the nobodies attained all of their weapons, and 2) The way you are talking makes it seem that you think Ven is already awake, but that would defeat the whole perpose of DDD.

Ryutim
13th Oct 2012, 18:25
I'm not sure that memories are the reason why they have their weapons, it's kinda confusing because, as we saw in the flashback in DDD, the first few members losing their hearts wasn't an accident, Xehanort did that with his keyblade, so I'm not even sure what to think about Xemnas and fake Ansem (seeker of darkness, or whatever you want to call him) anymore, but if Xemnas had the ability to use a keyblade, then why didn't he use it to beat up Sora and Riku? Was it all planned out, even having Xemnas and fake Ansem die by Sora's hand? There's gotta be something we still don't know about all of this. I just hope that it's explained somewhere along the line. Anyway, about the nature of the heart, I'm not entirely conviced about the heart, body, and soul/memories thing, but I really don't have a better explination for it, so until I have more information, I'll leave that subject for now. As for Roxas, Namine, and Xion coming back, I totally agree that there's no reason why that couldn't happen, and for those who say that the number of keyblade wielders of light to fight the darkness is supposed to be seven, I say, why can't there be more? Honestly, if there are 13 Xehanorts, then why should we be limited to 7 keyblade wielders of light? They never said that there was a limit to how many keyblade wielders they could have on their team, they just said that they needed 13 of darkness and 7 of light in order to unlock kingdom hearts, or something along those lines. I think we should have as many allies as we can get, and I'd love to have Xion back (I don't know why exactly, but she's one of my favorite KH characters, I got so sad when she died, and having to kill her really pissed me off.).

vitornavarrete
13th Oct 2012, 21:37
I'm not sure that memories are the reason why they have their weapons, it's kinda confusing because, as we saw in the flashback in DDD, the first few members losing their hearts wasn't an accident, Xehanort did that with his keyblade, so I'm not even sure what to think about Xemnas and fake Ansem (seeker of darkness, or whatever you want to call him) anymore, but if Xemnas had the ability to use a keyblade, then why didn't he use it to beat up Sora and Riku? Was it all planned out, even having Xemnas and fake Ansem die by Sora's hand? There's gotta be something we still don't know about all of this. I just hope that it's explained somewhere along the line. Anyway, about the nature of the heart, I'm not entirely conviced about the heart, body, and soul/memories thing, but I really don't have a better explination for it, so until I have more information, I'll leave that subject for now. As for Roxas, Namine, and Xion coming back, I totally agree that there's no reason why that couldn't happen, and for those who say that the number of keyblade wielders of light to fight the darkness is supposed to be seven, I say, why can't there be more? Honestly, if there are 13 Xehanorts, then why should we be limited to 7 keyblade wielders of light? They never said that there was a limit to how many keyblade wielders they could have on their team, they just said that they needed 13 of darkness and 7 of light in order to unlock kingdom hearts, or something along those lines. I think we should have as many allies as we can get, and I'd love to have Xion back (I don't know why exactly, but she's one of my favorite KH characters, I got so sad when she died, and having to kill her really pissed me off.).





IIRC Nomura said that you need a heart to wield a keyblade. That explains why Roxas can use one (Ven's heart), why Xemnas can't (he doesn't have a heart), why Xion have all that troubles with the keyblade (Riku calls it a fake, after that she can't use one anymore etc etc), why Roxas and Sora can use two at the same time (they have more than one heart when they do so, probably Ven's and their own). One important thing here and a very cloudy point in KH, Riku's keyblade. It is said that Sora's keyblade should be Riku's, but, because he felt into darkness, the keyblade moves to Sora. The thing is, during KH1 Riku uses the Soul Eater. What is Soul Eater? Ansem SoD uses it in his final form, during the last battle in KH1, a double version of it, anyways. Since he is a heartless, he "is" a heart, so maybe he could use a keyblade? During KH2 Riku uses it during the game until you reach TWTNW when he is now using Way to Dawn and can't open the dark corridors anymore, since he doesn't belong to darkness anymore. And if we look to the designs it is pretty obvious that Way to Dawn was based on Soul Eater. We all know that Nomura is a designer and he leaves all kind of hints in the characters design in KH. My point is, Soul Eater looks like an incomplete keyblade and represents Riku's darkness. When he manages to controll darkness, then it reveals its true form, Way to Dawn. Since Ansem uses a double version of Soul Eater, it's like he is using a keyblade, so that would answer your question Ryutim. But I can be totally off here, though. I would like to see a more concrete explanation about Riku's keyblade. Maybe when Nomura does the Riku's game that he hinted during KH2 FM+ interview.

@keybladelegend: I don't know if I didn't get what you're trying to say about the next game being KH3. The thing is, KH3 is the next game in the series, or so he said (Tai Yasue, co-director). But an HD re-release is not a next game, is just a re-release. When they say KH3 is the next game, it just mean that BbS2 or anyother non-numbered title won't appear before KH3. You say that people in japan have the game, but it has been 10 years since the first KH was released, there's a bunch of new kids and teens that didn't play the game when it was first released. It has some selling potential. And, we already discussed this, but it is very likely that it will be released here (people with inside info already teased), even if you still don't agree. Nomura said clearly that the whole point of doing this is to get all the games in a single plataform, before finishing the Seeker of Darkness saga. So KH 2.5, or whatever the next collection is after KH1.5 and before 3. The schedule is probably like this: 2013 - KH1.5 (already confirmed by SE), 2014 - KH2.5 (hinted by Nomura, data is based on 1 KH release for year), 2015 - KH3 (if they keep their word and don't get any crazy ideas, but they can still release another collection and leave KH 3 for 2016, you never know.)

Ryutim
14th Oct 2012, 15:29
That's an interesting theory about the soul eater, I like it, but like you said, I'm gonna leave it as it is for now and wait for a more concrete explination. Anyway, someone said that it was just the memories that determined what weapon the nobodies had, so I was trying to use Xemnas as an example that it's not entirely true, but my train of thought got a bit side tracked, and the theory about the soul eater answered my other questions (that being, "Why didn't Ansem SoD use a keyblade against Sora during their fight?"). I'm sorry I didn't explain my thoughts very clearly, they're not always easy to express with words.

DOOMMonkey224
14th Oct 2012, 15:36
this is confusing mostly because im ot lazy to read it all>.<

Ryutim
15th Oct 2012, 16:04
Lol, I don't blame you dude.

member_10578644
15th Oct 2012, 16:38
Ya, I just love how long we could go at this and never say anything like, "How are you," "How did you get to know KH," we just ramble XD

DOOMMonkey224
15th Oct 2012, 17:43
......someone should start a fourm for how u were introduced to kingdom hearts

member_10578644
16th Oct 2012, 19:37
......someone should start a fourm for how u were introduced to kingdom hearts


I will now start this forum.

Zench-XIII
16th Oct 2012, 19:41
......someone should start a fourm for how u were introduced to kingdom hearts


I will now start this forum.


Hold it, I belive there's already a thread like that. Browse thru the KH forum.

iambasho777
19th Oct 2012, 22:57
Hey guys, I enjoy reading all of the posts but would you all please consider editing out the irrelevant parts (the parts you aren't addressing) of posts when you quote? This topic is forever and a day long, but only about half of that is new material making it rather hard to follow.

DOOMMonkey224
20th Oct 2012, 09:23
Who died and made you king?

Grimoire
20th Oct 2012, 09:42
Actually, Basho is simply saying the same thing that the admins suggested in a (now locked) thread several months ago.

DOOMMonkey224
20th Oct 2012, 09:48
So an admin died?

Grimoire
20th Oct 2012, 10:12
How am I supposed to know that? An admin called Andy left the staff a while back though. na.square-enix.com/go/thread/view/139233... (/go/thread/view/139233/29339993/Bye_Everyone)!

DOOMMonkey224
20th Oct 2012, 10:18
but there would be a box on his picture thats would say ADMIN

Grimoire
20th Oct 2012, 10:21
Andy? He's no longer an admin, but a regular member. Anyway, back to the topic.

DOOMMonkey224
20th Oct 2012, 10:22
right! aqua is sexxy

Ryutim
20th Oct 2012, 17:35
That's true, but I don't think that's the topic he was referring to.

DOOMMonkey224
18th Dec 2012, 18:27
Lol. I am confused. 7 lights right? i could like 10 people with keyblades. Kiari,Sora,Riku,Micky,Ven,Aqua,Terra,Axel,Roxas,Xion. Which ones will be used and witch ones will just assist?

vitornavarrete
18th Dec 2012, 19:00
Lol. I am confused. 7 lights right? i could like 10 people with keyblades. Kiari,Sora,Riku,Micky,Ven,Aqua,Terra,Axel,Roxas,Xion. Which ones will be used and witch ones will just assist?









Already said it in this thread, but until new information is revealed, my vote goes to: Sora, Riku, Kairi, Ventus, Terra, Aqua and Mickey. But I also still think that Axel, Roxas and Xion will be a team with Naminé's support.

member_10706996
18th Dec 2012, 23:14
From the way the message was written, I would probably assume it's referring to KINGDOM HEARTS 1.5 Re:MIX. Also, since the message exists in an NA copy of KINGDOM HEARTS 3D [Dream Drop Distance], it helps provide evidence of an NA release.

Ryutim
20th Dec 2012, 17:15
I agree, but I'm not gonna get my hopes up until they officially announce it.

member_10706996
20th Dec 2012, 19:40
The secret message is suppose to be, well you know, secret. But yeah, I'll also wait until they officially announce it.

DOOMMonkey224
22nd Dec 2012, 10:16
Grrrrr. I hate waiting.

Ryutim
22nd Dec 2012, 19:35
I'm right with you there, but I'd rather wait and be disapointed, than get my hopes up and be completely heartbroken, and even if it's not likely that either one will happen, I'd still rather not take the risk.

DOOMMonkey224
19th Jan 2013, 18:27
........ I do wonder what it ment......

joshua.horne.18
25th Feb 2013, 13:37
To me it means BBS will be coming to PS3 in HD and coined KH0. The credits already told us that the next new game would be KHIII (the blue letters and the hidden Roman numerals read "This leads to KINGDOM HEARTS III") so we don't need a second message telling us that. The only other option I can think of would be all of the important handheld games (BBS, Days, CoM) getting a HD release as KH1.5 or something like that to reduce the number of consoles the games are on.


EDIT: Also, the final bit just means that they're doing this to help catch people up for KHIII. Now all of the people who automatically assume that handheld titles aren't important will end up buying this... damn, I wanted to sit back and laugh at all the clueless idiots :(


more like BBS is coming to 3DS and maybe Vita in hd

DOOMMonkey224
2nd Mar 2013, 15:04
Why would they put BBS to the vita or 3DS? Honestly? In my opinon, BBS will be part of KH2.5, and on the PS3/PS4.... Thats what would make sence.

edward.busch.18
2nd Mar 2013, 17:09
I AGREE WITH DOOMMONKEY224

Ryutim
3rd Mar 2013, 15:21
Same here, and I really hope that they put both KH2FM and KHBBSFM into the 2.5 remix, then we'll be all caught up on the final mixes that they kept from the US for so long.

edward.busch.18
5th Mar 2013, 10:43
MUST HAVE FINAL MIXES!

DOOMMonkey224
5th Mar 2013, 16:39
Indeed....

Ryutim
8th Mar 2013, 13:35
Yeah, you've got that right. Kingdom Hearts rocks!

edward.busch.18
8th Mar 2013, 21:00
HA! new! yeah and kingdom hearts 3 is coming out today! LOOK! ITS NOT GONNA HAPPEN ALRIGHT!

DOOMMonkey224
8th Mar 2013, 23:00
........ I CAN DREAM, CAN'T I???

Grimoire
9th Mar 2013, 01:39
Topic: [MEANING OF SECRET MESSAGE? *SPOILERS?*]


[So during the credits of the game, when you are diving through all the letters, if you touch all the highlighted letters you will unlock a secret message in the reports section.

It reads:
"The past will be reawakened as a new number in never-before-seen detail. Prepare yourself for the awakening of the next number."

What does this mean exactly?
At first glance i think, "oh KH3 YAY!"
but reading more into it i think maybe a hd release of kingdom hearts 1 and 2?]


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edward.busch.18
9th Mar 2013, 14:47
WOW Gravity is a kill joy.... well my last post to this thread...who with me? im moving to general descussion

DOOMMonkey224
16th Mar 2013, 15:27
Indeed

edward.busch.18
22nd Mar 2013, 21:03
Not alot to talk about when im not around hUh? lol ... Kingdom hearts 1.5HD already ready for preorder and im gonna wait a few more months until i see those nice Preorder bundles with free stuff from all the company wars wanting me to go to them

Ryutim
22nd Mar 2013, 21:20
Same here, I'll probably buy it from GameStop, but I'm waiting for the pre-order bonuses to be announced before I commit to pre-ordering from a specific place.

edward.busch.18
22nd Mar 2013, 21:24
EXACTLY!! THANK YOU!.....serious COOL gear could be released and i dont wanna miss it!

Ryutim
22nd Mar 2013, 22:22
Agreed.

edward.busch.18
22nd Mar 2013, 22:33
besides once you preorder its set you WILL get the game but why not wait for the gear too cuz all these shops want me to buy it from them its like waiting for the best bribe.... Heh i like stuff or exclusive chacters...or music,

Ryutim
23rd Mar 2013, 18:59
Yeah, same here. I'm kinda hoping that they'll give us the same pre-order bonuses that they gave away in japan.

edward.busch.18
23rd Mar 2013, 19:13
pssh japan secretly hates us.... they always get cooler stuff

Ryutim
23rd Mar 2013, 19:46
Yeah, they tend to deny it, but we all know it's true, but hey, at least they're finally giving us the final mixes.

edward.busch.18
23rd Mar 2013, 19:56
they say we do cuz we got the majority for thier "final mix" first cuz thier original KH game didnt have sephiroth or the secret bosses but it was re-released there with even MORE stuff

Ryutim
26th Mar 2013, 19:10
Sure, we get more stuff at first, but until now (that is, until they release KH1.5 and 2.5 in america), we never got everything that they put into the final mixes, and honestly, what would you prefer, having most of a game, but never having all of it, or getting the whole game, just at a later date than people overseas get a game that has less than you'll have when the final mix actually comes out? Personally, I can wait a few months if that means getting the entire game, but not being able to play the whole game has been driving me nuts for ages, and I know from other people's posts that I'm not the only one. Anyway, nevermind, I shouldn't be complaining anymore, I've ranted about this too much already, and now that we're finally getting the final mixes, I can wait a little longer. Also, @Square-Enix, thank you so much for giving us the final mixes, I will never be able to express how truly grateful I am to finally be able to play them. I don't think I've mentioned that before, so I thought I'd stick it in there (I don't always complain about everything, sometimes I'm asleep, I mean polite, yeah, that.).

edward.busch.18
26th Mar 2013, 22:27
yup... about time to be reconized over the ocean.... FAN BASE RIGHT HERE!!! jesh...but yeah we get em in HD so cool

Ryutim
29th Mar 2013, 15:10
Yeah, everything will be okay once we get the final mixes (unless they do something stupid, like choose to make a final mix for KH3, and only release it in japan. That would not only be evil, it would also prove that SE hates us.).

Bobguy117
29th Mar 2013, 18:49
Maybe they'll make a Kingdom Hearts 1.5 HD FINAL ReMIX just to spite us...! D'x

edward.busch.18
30th Mar 2013, 03:10
No i dont think they'd remix a remix..... but for the sake of cash who knows what evils companies will do? but if they final mixed KH3 even on the Japanese public i think them more THEN us would be sick of it and be totally waiting from that point on cuz they wont buy the next KH game until the final mix comes out...lol...although anyone else getting tweaked like this GAME is a addiction and i need my fix?

Silverwing
30th Mar 2013, 05:29
um... i'll raise my hand to the addiction thing...


I have spent a little to much time around KH since it came out 11 years ago and I cant go a day without it... reasearch playing, you name it....





Though it is funny... when i first found out about the KH Final Mix when it came out years ago.... (through a few random sources) I always said I would get my hands on it even it i had to import it.... now thats kinda coming around to fruition....

edward.busch.18
30th Mar 2013, 11:04
True... I play it or read something about it every day..... How did they make a drug into a videogame?....