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Blade_hunter
8th Mar 2009, 03:01
One thing I disliked in Deus Ex, yes it was the fact when we wanted to give an item to an NPC we can't choose the item during the conversation, we need to throw all the items suspected to be given in priority to give what we want before engaging the conversation, even the first time I played the game I preferred to chose to don't give the Item at all. I think if we have the possibility to choose that during the conversation it can be a great improvement and to perform the action even by leaving the conversation we can tell to the NPC a "wait a minute I will give you the item after" and give it the desired item later.

I think when we have the choice between give and don't give we can choose a "give later" and what we want to give, the first conversation was the conversation with Gunther and the other with Mr Renton

Ok there is only two conversations in the first DX but if we can perform that kind of action this can allow us to make what we want without to load a save far away just because we wanted to make a specific act.

Ashpolt
8th Mar 2009, 03:16
Agreed, I didn't give Gunther my pistol because I'd already upgraded it by then, and I didn't want Mr. Renton to have my awesome stealth pistol.

On a related note, I also didn't like how you couldn't choose which items to pick up off dead bodies in the first game: you got everything, or at least as much as you carry. For the 50th time, I do not want the combat knife! Go away! Invisible War handled this fairly well by making the items fall to the ground once you killed someone, but the target detection ruined it a bit, as it usually meant I couldn't pick up small items (e.g. ammo clips) without picking up the body and flinging it away first.

Sabretooth1
8th Mar 2009, 03:57
I think the best balance would be a selection screen, but what I'm more concerned about is what sort of an Inventory system do we have here in the first place?

Is it going to be DX-style Grid, or DX:IW-style Slots. While I don't really mind Slots, I really prefer Grid, just for that classic feel. :D I'm very sure EM won't do it though, it'll get the mainstream audience scratching their heads.

Slots is bearable, though there should be at least 5 more slots than in Invisible War. And maybe some sort of a weight system to balance things.

As for picking stuff off of dead bodies, best way I can imagine is, you right click an enemy and a quick pop-up comes into view, showing you all the items he's got. You click on everything you want, right-click to close screen. An arguably quicker variation would be to hold left-click down to keep the pop-up open, right-click on objects to take them.

The IW-style approach should be avoided because I don't really see why somebody's items magically fell away from a guy when he died. :D

ChristianTroy
8th Mar 2009, 03:59
I think they've mentioned "Deus Ex-style inventory", which I would take to mean grid-system.

jamhaw
8th Mar 2009, 05:46
I think they've mentioned "Deus Ex-style inventory", which I would take to mean grid-system.

They probably meant DX2 style grid system.

ChristianTroy
8th Mar 2009, 05:50
Look, buddy, inventory is one of the last shreds of hope that one can cling to about this game. Don't take it away please. They meant Deus Ex 1 style. Keep hope alive.

jamhaw
8th Mar 2009, 05:53
Look, buddy, inventory is one of the last shreds of hope that one can cling to about this game. Don't take it away please. They meant Deus Ex 1 style. Keep hope alive.

Was the DX inventory better than the slot based type? I'll admit I have never played PC DX and the Conspiracy had slot based inventory.

WhatsHisFace
8th Mar 2009, 05:56
Was the DX inventory better than the slot based type? I'll admit I have never played PC DX and the Conspiracy had slot based inventory.

Deus Ex inventory was heavenly.

ChristianTroy
8th Mar 2009, 05:58
Yeah, it was better. Keep in mind, we're talking about an inventory system, so there isn't a whole lot you can do with it anyways, and it doesn't make a huge amount of difference, but as far as inventory systems go, it was better. It basically took item size into account, instead of having a sword and a rocket launcher and a pistol all take up the same amount of space.

WhatsHisFace
8th Mar 2009, 06:07
Yeah, it was better. Keep in mind, we're talking about an inventory system, so there isn't a whole lot you can do with it anyways, and it doesn't make a huge amount of difference, but as far as inventory systems go, it was better. It basically took item size into account, instead of having a sword and a rocket launcher and a pistol all take up the same amount of space.
But it all came together in a glorious Tetris-like management system. Resident Evil 4 also used an inventory system like this. Absolutely a splendid way to peruse inventory. I hope it's brought back for Deus Ex 3. :(

K^2
8th Mar 2009, 06:19
DX inventory system was far from perfect. But if the choice is between having a copy of that or leave the improvement up to the same people who decided that DX3 needs health regen, I would chose the former.

ChristianTroy
8th Mar 2009, 06:43
Deus Ex's inventory really needed some kind of auto-arrange features. Like, if I have 5 empty spaces, but they aren't in a straight line, and I go to pick up a Dragon's Tooth (I think that took 5), it should just automatically arrange my crap so that I have enough room.


Also, if Ion Storm had any soul, they should have inserted a "feature" where if you fill up a particular horizontal line in your inventory, everything in that line disappears.

K^2
8th Mar 2009, 07:16
Auto-arrange would be nice. Though, it has to be written carefully. If you brute-force it, the search space blows up, and it could cause a frame drop when you pick stuff up. Not nice. But if you approach it intelligently, it is a feasible problem. I've written a Sudoku algorithm that performs a very similar task.

Blade_hunter
8th Mar 2009, 11:38
Dragon's tooth take 4 in line just like the sniper ;)
http://www.gamebanshee.com/deusex/weapons.php

For the inventory I really wanted something that combines the features of IW and DX (RPG style) and eventually games like SS2 of course if we want something more flexible

For me a good inventory system must be easy to "optimize" Diablo like inventories, etc are a fair example.

I wanted something upgraded by a skill too just like SS2

The inventory from DX was approximatively cool; It wasn'tnot so hard to manage but some flaws were corrected by the mod shifter and DX 2 even if the inventory from IW was really redundant for a game like DX

I've heard about the DX PS2 inventory and I've heard about that inventory can allow only 4 weapons and we can carry all of the little objects of the game.

I got some ideas started by simple to the a more complex model but not too tricky to manage.

I think everyone agreed with the idea though and now the subject derived to the inventory

P-nut
8th Mar 2009, 11:59
Deus Ex's inventory really needed some kind of auto-arrange features. Like, if I have 5 empty spaces, but they aren't in a straight line, and I go to pick up a Dragon's Tooth (I think that took 5), it should just automatically arrange my crap so that I have enough room.

aah, no auto-arrange.. I used to love puzzling for a bit when I wanted to add something new. throwing away little things just to pick them back up a moment later, to move your GEP-gun to another spot, deciding what you wanted to keep and what not..

to me, the grid system in dx1 was perfect as in it offered just enough possiblities in different weapon combinations, and you could carry with you all the important things. it would have been nice tho if some kind of strength aug added some space..

anyways I'm a grid fanboy, hope to see it in number 3

edit: the oblivion system would be nice too, I guess. worked for me

Blade_hunter
8th Mar 2009, 13:23
Oblivion used a weight based system though
We can use a weight based inventory with the grid presentation but to come back with the subject the conversations and the item selection if you want to propose something like an inventory system make a thread ;)

El_Bel
8th Mar 2009, 17:59
One thing I disliked in Deus Ex, yes it was the fact when we wanted to give an item to an NPC we can't choose the item during the conversation, we need to throw all the items suspected to be given in priority to give what we want before engaging the conversation, even the first time I played the game I preferred to chose to don't give the Item at all. I think if we have the possibility to choose that during the conversation it can be a great improvement and to perform the action even by leaving the conversation we can tell to the NPC a "wait a minute I will give you the item after" and give it the desired item later.

I think when we have the choice between give and don't give we can choose a "give later" and what we want to give, the first conversation was the conversation with Gunther and the other with Mr Renton

Ok there is only two conversations in the first DX but if we can perform that kind of action this can allow us to make what we want without to load a save far away just because we wanted to make a specific act.

Shifter mod? :wave:

Of course we need the dialog options to give later and ask for the weapon back when he is done.

Blade_hunter
9th Mar 2009, 16:32
Shifter doesn't solve that problem, I tried it doesn't work, but I want that DX problems being solved with the new game without the removal of the game's depth.

Capital_G
9th Mar 2009, 17:45
I played DX on my computer, I still have the same one so I will play Deus Ex on PS3......goodbye grid system:(

Blade_hunter
9th Mar 2009, 18:28
Depends I hope they make two different inventories systems just like DX PC and DX PS 2
Or eventually a line inventory
the Line inventory presents multiple advantages IMO

you can keep the management with different item sizes and the auto arrange is easier to make and It fits with both platforms

Ok for the guys who expect something like the grid system they would be disappointed for sure, but it's better than the IW inventory because the item size stay always as a parameter to manage, but it's easier to manage than an inventory like the one in DX or Diablo like games ...

Some mods for unreal tournament 2004 got some inventories like that and they are very easy to use

El_Bel
9th Mar 2009, 18:51
Shifter doesn't solve that problem, I tried it doesn't work, but I want that DX problems being solved with the new game without the removal of the game's depth.

It does!! You can give any weapon you want!! Shifter has turned the NSF guy in MJ12 facility, to someone useful!!

Well we could reprogram the conversations with Gunter and Renton and add the option

say "i will check back with you later"
make flag "talked to X" = 0
if X inventory contains weapon make flag "talked to X" = 1

or something like this.. :p

Blade_hunter
9th Mar 2009, 19:09
With the NSF guy ? The thing I know with shifter it's the NPC's can grab items, but I didn't used the conversation to transfer anything of my choice :hmm: I will make a new try but I'm pretty sure we can't do that, if you throw something into an NPC they can use that even gunther can use a gep gun if he walks on it.

it's that perhaps you talk about ? the NPC can grab items if we put weapons near them

El_Bel
9th Mar 2009, 19:26
No, you get close to them and a message shows on the screen. It says, press the toss weapon button to give this npc a weapon. And if you press it, you dont throw it down and then he steps on it. He just gets it in his inventory!!

Blade_hunter
9th Mar 2009, 20:14
It's not much different, it's like when you give a weapon into a bot in UT
but it's like I said shifter doesn't solved the conversation tweak you can give items to NPCs but not via the conversation system.
NPCs in shifter have the ability to grab items I tried with revision Gunther was under fire, he found a weapon on the ground and he fighted with the weapon that he grabbed from the ground

El_Bel
9th Mar 2009, 21:14
It's not much different, it's like when you give a weapon into a bot in UT
but it's like I said shifter doesn't solved the conversation tweak you can give items to NPCs but not via the conversation system.
NPCs in shifter have the ability to grab items I tried with revision Gunther was under fire, he found a weapon on the ground and he fighted with the weapon that he grabbed from the ground

And that is awesome!! Once an NSF guy founded the Gep Gun i tossed because i didnt wanted it anymore and he smoked me!!

About the dialogs, i dont think its that hard to add this option to the game. Unfortunately i dont know how to use the SDK. Maybe we can find someone in here to help us to implement this? :)

Blade_hunter
9th Mar 2009, 21:41
That's the goal of the thread :)

Shifter is a cool mod and EIDOS should take notes about what this mod corrected from the original DX and many gamers did well to talk about that mod

It's not really hard IMO

I propose the following

1/ more conversation options
-We are forced to use the first way even on the other proposals

2/ include a subchoice in the phrase to give the item we want to give
3/ choose to give something via the conversation and then go to the inventory (the game can show the inventory without leaving anything) to select what we want to give

I think I gave some ways to accomplish this, if someone have better ideas ...