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Big Orange
20th Feb 2009, 19:13
With the economy sliding into a genuine depression and many multinational corporations falling on their sword through their lack of oversight then getting bailed out or taken over by the governments, do you think the Cyberpunk tropue of the megacorporations ruling the world in Deus-Ex's near future could be rendered passe?

I only think a megacorporation like Page Industries could work if it was heavily subsidized by a superstate.

René
20th Feb 2009, 19:36
Actually, I think it's the opposite - what's happening now lends even more credibility to the story and to Cyberpunk lore in general. Some of the larger companies will inevitably survive, and with the elimination of the lower-tiered competition and consolidation of other companies, government bailouts (the rich get richer), and effectively socializing previously privately owned companies, I think it's even more relevant now than in the past.

Big Orange
20th Feb 2009, 20:38
I like it how Page Industries is the dominant company in engineering, science, and finance, with most of MJ12's operations hidden within Page Industries businesses.

Not to give too much away is there going to be several big brands who are advertised on every street and have products in every shop, but later on they're linked to an evil organization you're taking down?

WhatsHisFace
20th Feb 2009, 21:14
That would be too much like Invisible War, where all the choices you make in the beginning of the game end up making no difference what-so-ever, since all groups are confined under the same umbrella entity.

Man, even the coffee stores in Invisible War were unified. What lazy game design.

ZylonBane
20th Feb 2009, 22:32
Almost the worst part of the IW "coffee war" was the naming for the two chains-- Pequod's and QueeQueg's. These are terrible, hard-to-pronounce names that no marketing person in their right mind would inflict on a business. But Ion Storm chose them because they're names from Moby DÃ*ck. Seriously. Ion Storm, with their big ham hands, was so desperate to impress everyone with how deep and literate they were, that they put a coffee chain named "QueeQueg's" in their game.

It was an act of self-conscious pseudo-intellectual preening unmatched until Irrational rolled out "Andrew Ryan". Sigh.

Big Orange
20th Feb 2009, 22:59
While I like the idea that some of the weapons you use and many everyday products you see everywhere are linked to the same people you are fighting against, at the same time I find the idea that every relevant spy agency, company, and religious cult in the plot are different tendrils of one conspiracy very contrived and patronizing if you think about it, much like real conspiracy nuts. :rasp:

But I disagree with Rene' that the biggest corporations would automatically survive a global depression, since like the US Government, many of them are in tremendous debt and they're more likely to be too bloated to reform themselves in time to adapt to a rapidly changing landscape. I can see some small fry companies today getting much bigger in the next thirty years, supplanting the industrial and financial dinosaurs.

dixieflatline
21st Feb 2009, 00:29
It was an act of self-conscious pseudo-intellectual preening unmatched until Irrational rolled out "Andrew Ryan". Sigh.

Though perhaps not as bad, this particular example also reminds me of Dead Space's player character "Isaac Clarke."

If a game's writers were to reference a science fiction author's name, it be nice if they referenced a character or writer's name that influenced the story somewhat. Just taking creating a name out of the two most famous science fiction writers in the entire genre of science fiction doesn't exactly impress me that much. And its not like the survival horror plot had any relation at all to the entire oeuvre of either author.

No doubt the same writers will make a fantasy game next, where you play as uh, Terry Tolkien. It's pretty dumb.

Regarding cyberpunk, there's no better time than now for cyberpunk! The US government is printing it's economy of existence, and perhaps, more and more, private companies will be taking over government's roles.

The middle class is being reduced as well; creating a much larger gap between haves and have-nots, which is also a pillar of cyberpunk.

Not to mention where we are technologically, with 3d holograms a reality, the Internet becoming more ingrained with out daily life, our computer power , etc. etc.

FrankCSIS
21st Feb 2009, 02:14
Those who make it through relatively unshaken will bounce big time, the way it always happens. The bigger the depression, the bigger the growth once things start looking up again. We should see quite a few newcomers as well, a recession being typically the best time for a small group with resources to prosper rapidly.

As continuity would have it, it's safe to assume the Cyberpunk world is setting itself quite nicely, without sounding like a doomsday prophet. The past being fairly revelating of the future, it's safe and easy to make simple predictions. It's not too far fetched to imagine an economy with even larger disparities, technology allowing crazier projects for the countries who can afford it, and the inevitable larger collapse that will ensue in the next economic crisis, should none of the true issues be addressed during this crisis we are facing. While the timeline might not be the best, considering current events, the basis of the storyline itself, as well the original's, are still more than fitting.

SageSavage
21st Feb 2009, 10:31
Agreed.

Big Orange
21st Feb 2009, 11:40
If we're going to have a megacorporation similar to Weyland-Yutani, it would most likely be called Khan-Wu, since the West's incompetent and greedy Kleptocrats have moved most of the real economy to India and China, bloating the service and financial economies to complete collapse.

The shrinking middle class and worsening conditions would inevitably breed a big terrorist movement that is not drawn from Neo-Nazis or Islamofascists but ordinary people who have been pushed into a corner for too long.

ZylonBane
21st Feb 2009, 20:04
Crazy person cleanup in aisle six.

JCD
21st Feb 2009, 21:54
Mega-companies and mega-banks do exist, they are just "hidden" in order not to have a monopoly.

A typical example is Intel, which controlls many memory manufacturers, has large percentages of m/b makers, makes huge deals with it's SSDs now, etc. In the gaming industry, EA has bought many shares from many other rivals :whistle: They practically make money from their competitors ;)

Some time in the future, I believe that a large corporation will control almost everything, with the law by their side, since they will "convince" the public that it's for their own good to have many industries in a big collaboration (monopoly).

As for the theory of people making a revolution/war, I don't fully believe that it has a strong possibility of happening. Almost all the past European/World wars, were conflicts that certain people caused by their actions, in order to simply profit by it. So, a revolution is a possible scenario, but unless driven towards a major uprising by certain elements, who wish it, they will simply fade away.

FrankCSIS
22nd Feb 2009, 00:00
Not very fond of the revolution theory either, unless oppression becomes ridiculous and the middle class falls into 3rd world territory within a short amount of time. If I had to pick a most likely scenario between the various communists/socialists revolutionaries, I'd say Lenin was the one with the most insight. Marx's predictions are proving to be flat with every passing capitalism crisis, but we've yet to face the conditions Lenin had adroitly described.

As such, the next conflict is more likely to break between opposing companies/countries than some sort of proletarian revolution. It's a bit far-fetched to expect one company to run everything, but we can safely predict a concentration of production and distribution within a restricted amount of hands, and the inevitable skirmish that would result between them. We already see it in commerce and distribution, imagine between "manufacturers of all things". Lenin's question of what will be done with all the surplus capital when there is no market to unload it to has yet to be addressed, and the ensuing conflicts are rather inevitable.

jamhaw
22nd Feb 2009, 18:45
[QUOTE=Big Orange;944675]If we're going to have a megacorporation similar to Weyland-Yutani, it would most likely be called Khan-Wu, since the West's incompetent and greedy Kleptocrats have moved most of the real economy to India and China, bloating the service and financial economies to complete collapse.

QUOTE]

Actually I recall that the name was intended to give the idea that the Japanese were continioung to diversify and that Merry old England was back on her feet or something like that.

Big Orange
26th Feb 2009, 22:00
Not very fond of the revolution theory either, unless oppression becomes ridiculous and the middle class falls into 3rd world territory within a short amount of time.

Isn't what essentially happens by the time of the first Deus Ex game? The NSF were really ordinary, but deeply frustrated people who had violently turned against the business and political elites.


Actually I recall that the name was intended to give the idea that the Japanese were continioung to diversify and that Merry old England was back on her feet or something like that.

But that seems more unlikely to happen in the first half of this century, with India and China being economic superpowers.

FrankCSIS
27th Feb 2009, 00:17
I was more under the impression that people firstly reacted to the plague. Cut people's access to food or necessary meds, and then you might find yourself with some armed revolution. Between dying and surviving, a good chunk will pick the latter, especially so if they were previously raised in an environment where food or supplies were never an issue.

Economical or anti-establishment revolution though? I'll believe it when I see it, but I don't think we'll see that any time soon, if ever. Unless a very clever third party plays the crowd well enough and orchestrates a coup themselves. But then the revolution didn't come from the people, they were merely being used, as usual.

Oh, and I wouldn't count England out of anything. They have the big end of the EU's stick, and are still very much on course with their old imperial ways.

jamhaw
27th Feb 2009, 02:20
But that seems more unlikely to happen in the first half of this century, with India and China being economic superpowers.

Actually India and China have some serious problems, China's population is near it's peak after which it shall decline dramatically (way more men than women which will likely cause serious social problems and they don't really have a solution for them) coupled with the economic troubles occuring right now and the layoffs and such (if the West declines that means that China's primary market is declining not good) and the fact that it is encircled by strong powers such as Russia, India and Japan. (And their record against small and weak countries isn't good the Vietnames defeated them pretty effectivley. India is also surrounded by strong nations, has a burgeoning population and both countries have serious ecological problems in the near future especially in regards to water supply. Now I could be totally wrong and in twenty years time we could be living in Oriental colonies, but this is my view of the subject.

itsalladream
1st Mar 2009, 23:11
Unless a very clever third party plays the crowd well enough and orchestrates a coup themselves.

I just watched V is for Vendetta again last night. It had the all-powerful government, and one person willing to rally the people to act out upon all their (and his) built-up frustrations.

Big Orange
2nd Mar 2009, 00:49
jamhaw, I know India and China have their deeply ingrained problems and from what I hear not exactly the best of friends, but the main reasons they've suffered tremendous ecological damage is because short-sighted Western corporations offloaded most of their manufacturing onto them, and as a result the Western countries floated on funny money and ran up trade deficits as deep as Mars' canyons.

And the PLA not faring well in Vietnam is a moot point when the most well trained and equipped military on the planet was also run out of there in the mid 70s. And Vietnam was turned into another giant sweatshop by Chinese and Western businessmen anyway. I can see the horny, angry surplus male population as more meat for the African meat grinder if China wanted to increasingly colonize the decaying continent.

imported_JC_Denton
2nd Mar 2009, 12:07
Crazy person cleanup in aisle six.

That had me in stitches. :lol:

mad_red
2nd Mar 2009, 12:43
Almost the worst part of the IW "coffee war" was the naming for the two chains-- Pequod's and QueeQueg's. These are terrible, hard-to-pronounce names that no marketing person in their right mind would inflict on a business. But Ion Storm chose them because they're names from Moby DÃ*ck. Seriously. Ion Storm, with their big ham hands, was so desperate to impress everyone with how deep and literate they were, that they put a coffee chain named "QueeQueg's" in their game.

It was an act of self-conscious pseudo-intellectual preening unmatched until Irrational rolled out "Andrew Ryan". Sigh.

Dude, they got the idea from STARBUCKS. Nobody is going to pretend that this was a deeply intellectual reference or anything. It's the most obvious choice.

EM might be sending DX to hell in a handbasket (I say MIGHT, because I laugh in the face of evidence!), but they can't be THAT ignorant.

Necros
5th Mar 2009, 05:37
I liked the names, Pequod's and QueeQueg's... :rolleyes: And I don't see anything wrong with naming Dead Space's character Isaac Clarke, it was a nice tribute and that's all, they didn't want to impress you. (J.G. Hertzler's involvement was more important to me anyway... :p :D)