PDA

View Full Version : Just How Much: Customization



WraithShadow13
7th Feb 2014, 15:46
So early on, we were hearing the word customization being tossed around. From the Alpha Video, there really didn't seem to be a whole lot. Mind you this is an Alpha phase video, so obviously they're not going to have everything ready for you to see and test, but my question is this:


How much customization are we actually getting?


From the video we see that you can pick from about three moves and a special, but in terms of looks, each character in a class looked the same. Are we just getting skins to buy or will there actually be some depth and character creation? How much freedom are we getting in regards to how we look in battle, and how much are we getting in terms of play?


Four powers and a Skin don't really seem to be all that much in terms of making characters. Did anybody have any info they could link to for us? i doubt that i'm the only one who is curious.

GeekedUpJuicy
7th Feb 2014, 21:27
This is a really great question to bring up.

I think a great example to look at is Team Fortress 2. At its initial release, and the following couple of months, there were no alternate weapons/load-outs for any of the 9 classes. Then they slowly started releasing patches centered around each class, and offering a new set of weapons/items/maps etc. This was definitely needed, but after numerous updates it started going a little too far (hats, anyone?). Even without the community/workshop added items, there's now way too many weapons and items to even fathom. And it kind of takes away from the exclusiveness and specialty of the weapons. A new user starts playing the game, and are pretty much blown away by the amount of items etc there are. It practically turned into an MMO when they added crafting.

So what the devs would wanna take away from that example is that you need enough customization to cater to different play styles and have a progress system to give players an incentive... But don't go too far and add meaningless or crap items for the sake of customization. If you play TF2 vanilla on the Xbox, it gets boring really fast. And if you play on the PC now, you have no idea what's going on.

As for Nosgoth... I think something like 5-8 classes, with 4-6 sets of alternate weapons, armor, and powers for each team would be good. And throw in a couple exclusive/rare/special items or skins/aesthetics to make it interesting.

Psyonix_Eric
7th Feb 2014, 21:41
As for Nosgoth... I think something like 5-8 classes, with 3-4 sets of alternate weapons and powers for each team would be good. And throw in a couple exclusive/rare/special items or skins/aesthetics to make it interesting.
This is basically where we're at currently. :)

We have:
- Three human classes (with two on the way)
- Three vampire classes (with two on the way, one very shortly)
- Humans have a main weapon of which there exists 4 variants of each currently
- Five skins for each class
- Exclusive "classic" skins on the way
- Multiple variations of the default skills as well as some that are unique
- Rare items on the way!

Hamanoz
7th Feb 2014, 23:07
"classic". it makes me pretty excited i hope that its what im thinking :)

Psyonix_Eric
7th Feb 2014, 23:09
"classic". it makes me pretty excited i hope that its what im thinking :)

http://www.nosgoth.com/blog/something-wicked-this-way-comes

Scroll down to the "Classic Skins" section. :)

Vampmaster
7th Feb 2014, 23:25
This is basically where we're at currently. :)

We have:
- Three human classes (with two on the way)
- Three vampire classes (with two on the way, one very shortly)
- Humans have a main weapon of which there exists 4 variants of each currently
- Five skins for each class
- Exclusive "classic" skins on the way
- Multiple variations of the default skills as well as some that are unique
- Rare items on the way!

I've probably said this a dozen times already, but please try to get all six clans in there at some point. There are abilities besides swimming that would still suit the Rahabim.

ParadoxicalOmen
8th Feb 2014, 13:37
- Three vampire classes (with two on the way, one very shortly)


Only 2 on the way? :(
Please tell me you guys will add the final clan in the end...



- Multiple variations of the default skills as well as some that are unique


I hope this means you guys will make a fully recovered Razielim skin!!! :p

hirukaru
8th Feb 2014, 13:44
Only 2 on the way? :(
Please tell me you guys will add the final clan in the end...



I hope this means you guys will make a fully recovered Razielim skin!!! :p

Remember the game is still in Alpha test (soon Closed Beta), they cannot give all character types at once they need something for updates in the future right ;).

LordNekronom
8th Feb 2014, 15:07
I hope this means you guys will make a fully recovered Razielim skin!!! :p
Ditto :D

Vampmaster
8th Feb 2014, 15:26
Remember the game is still in Alpha test (soon Closed Beta), they cannot give all character types at once they need something for updates in the future right ;).

Neither of us said they had to be included right away. I just couldn't tell if Eric was saying there wouldn't eventually be at least one more vampire class to make up the final clan.

Psyonix_Eric
8th Feb 2014, 16:17
Neither of us said they had to be included right away. I just couldn't tell if Eric was saying there wouldn't eventually be at least one more vampire class to make up the final clan.

Sorry, I should have been more clear. Only two more classes for each side are planned for beta. I don't have any information to share of what will happen after beta, but don't take that as a definitive "no" or "yes".

GeekedUpJuicy
9th Feb 2014, 01:34
This is basically where we're at currently. :)

We have:
- Three human classes (with two on the way)
- Three vampire classes (with two on the way, one very shortly)
- Humans have a main weapon of which there exists 4 variants of each currently
- Five skins for each class
- Exclusive "classic" skins on the way
- Multiple variations of the default skills as well as some that are unique
- Rare items on the way!

Sounds perfect.

And, uh *cough*cough* SOUL REAVER FOR BETA PLAYERS!!! :)

WraithShadow13
9th Feb 2014, 09:45
I'm a little sad that there are going to be skins rather than Costume packs. There are a lot of great looks, but the individual parts are so much more interesting as well as having a lot of potential if they were individual pieces. People would gladly pay for more costume packs than they would just skins, but still, i'm looking forwards to seeing some of the different skins that they are going to introduce.

Monkeythumbz
10th Feb 2014, 22:46
I'm a little sad that there are going to be skins rather than Costume packs. There are a lot of great looks, but the individual parts are so much more interesting as well as having a lot of potential if they were individual pieces. People would gladly pay for more costume packs than they would just skins, but still, i'm looking forwards to seeing some of the different skins that they are going to introduce.

Right now, it's not technically feasible for us to create modular costumes instead of cohesive skins, sorry.

WraithShadow13
11th Feb 2014, 04:59
Hey, you guys are actually in the forums talking to the fans and the players, and that alone is better than a lot of other games are doing. As long as you're listening to the feedback and designing skins around what we like, i really can't complain.

If you guys actually do manage to get this ability in game later on down the line, that will only make this game all the better. Part of the immersion breaking is when you have multiple people playing as the exact same character with the same look as you or others, so having a lot of great skins to choose from would definitely help this.

Monkeythumbz
11th Feb 2014, 14:20
Part of the immersion breaking is when you have multiple people playing as the exact same character with the same look as you or others, so having a lot of great skins to choose from would definitely help this.

Yes, we're in complete agreement on this :-)

Kazimira
19th Feb 2014, 04:22
Some people hate a lot of customization others love it. Personally I like a lot of customization where others are quite content to look like everyone else.

CountEyokir
19th Feb 2014, 10:22
I know modular parts aren't really in the going right now but I think that a certain amount of 'create your own avatar' will go a long way to making this game a lot more popular. I can't think of any Kain fan who DIDN'T try to create their own vampire. Give fans the ability to swap armour pieces around maybe choose different facial features (I know that's a tall order but it'll be worth it if you could) - and that'll improve the immersion quality immensely.

And I can not ring the Immersion bell hard enough.

Monkeythumbz
20th Feb 2014, 12:59
I know modular parts aren't really in the going right now but I think that a certain amount of 'create your own avatar' will go a long way to making this game a lot more popular.

For us right now, developing compelling gameplay trumps cosmetics when it comes to making Nosgoth the best competitive online multiplayer experience it can possibly be.

WraithShadow13
22nd Feb 2014, 01:05
I find that a lot of these style games really would benefit from a more involved character creation process. Given the constant advancements in the field, i'm surprised more games aren't focusing on this as a priority. With this being a primarily PvP combat game, it might not have the same development time as other games, like Halo, call of duty, and Fall of Cybertron, yet those games make great use of custom characters for their Mutliplayer combat. Nothing is worse than looking the exact same as every one else, but how great is it when you can recognize and be recognized on site? Seeing people run at you or away from you because they know who you are and what you can do.

A huge issue i've had over with the game Transformers Universe is that they built the game up on the promise of this, then last year decided it's too hard and shut out the community using the argument "Character Creation doesn't fit this style of gameplay. Now that they're starting to show this style of gameplay you can't really help but feel that this is the exact style of game that should be using it the most.

I can understand that making it can be a little more difficult, but isn't the payoff alone all the more worth it? If i don't like a skin, i won't buy it, but if i can use that one piece from it that i like, i probably would. I know people that still play Champions online just because of how well the character creation is, and that game is a mess.

I understand and accept that this game will have skins at launch, and i readily accept that because the Devs were upfront and honest with that (which i'm honestly grateful for given how shady other companies are becoming), but if there is ANY possibility of adding this feature later on down the line, i would ask that you please pursue it. It would bring in more players, as well as add more value to the game for those who already play.

faeral
22nd Feb 2014, 06:54
if they did eventually implement modular skins, they would have to "retrofit" all the pre-existing skins as well. could be a big project.

one option could be to allow "skin tinting", so you could adjust the palette of a skin to a certain degree ( no neon suits ). some brighter colours in general would be nice to stand out from the earth tones used throughout the human maps shown so far.

Lomonop
22nd Feb 2014, 10:37
some brighter colours in general would be nice to stand out from the earth tones used throughout the human maps shown so far.
I'm not sure if that would help with your Win/Loss ratio, though.

faeral
22nd Feb 2014, 11:56
I'm not sure if that would help with your Win/Loss ratio, though.

well it won't, since everybody playing will still have access to the same colour options. but it helps visibility immensely, which affects the success of the game's viewership potential. if it is confusing for viewers to see what is happening, they are less likely to watch further.

if you look at LoL, DotA, SC2 ( the "Big 3" atm ), everything has very bright, contrasting & distinctive colours & silhouettes ( silhouettes are very well done in Nosgoth so far ), making it easy to follow the action.

Squarezilla
22nd Feb 2014, 13:36
Well for me its more they should finish the classes themselves first.Like adding all the other classes first in beta then when it hits open or even when its fully out they can implement the customization which you guys want,you don't want to have anything wrong with the reaver your playing right ? you decide his armor is going to be dark orange and when you get in game its all buggy and the reavers sliding through the floor.So far they implemented alot of what the community has asked for you even saw the (D)evolved skins with the new class reveal im sure they'll listen to what we have to say in the future and for me so far its all pretty fluid and cant wait to play the beta even if it was with the default armor sets the whole time i would still play the living hell out of it.

P.S. On a side note this was the biggest text that i have written on any forum sorry if you dont understand what im saying i suck at spelling :D

WraithShadow13
22nd Feb 2014, 23:57
You're perfectly understandable Squarezilla, and Frankly, you're right. As Monkythumbz stated above:


For us right now, developing compelling gameplay trumps cosmetics when it comes to making Nosgoth the best competitive online multiplayer experience it can possibly be.


Which makes sense. The game needs to be fun to play as well as run smoothly. More focus should be put on cleaning it up and fine tuning it before they worry about how they're going to paint it so to speak.


if they did eventually implement modular skins, they would have to "retrofit" all the pre-existing skins as well. could be a big project.

Part of the problem here though, is that they're already going to have a lot to do in terms of adding more Female characters. People want them, and it doesn't make much sense to leave them as a single class on the one faction, so while they're adding more female versions of animations and rigging the skeletons for ladies, they have a perfect opportunity to split the skins into parts. Add if a few new faces and hair styles, and you have an early full customization build, that beats most games of this style out there.

Game companies like skins because they're easier than changable parts, and this style of Moba because it's much faster and easier to do than a full on MMO. The issue is that with everyone doing them, they're all the same minus the IP. Adding fully customizable characters adds a depth to the game the others won't have. Plus they're going to make more money selling as a costume pack rather than just skins.

A lot of fans of IP's like this already have "Their own characters" in mind as well. You can't go through a 4-7 games in a series without doing something like that. When building a game from a popular IP, people will ofter prefer to either play as their own character, or one of the already established ones. Giving them that chance would draw in more people than a generic skin system.

This system WOULD be a bit of work though, but one that i feel would only benefit the game more, especially if it were cosmetic only. Nothing to balance, just a fun way to draw in the fans as well as new players. I honestly have no problem if we have to wait a year after launch before they released a full cosmetic character creation tool, it would be worth it. Let them build the game to be as good as possible, but once they have it where they want it, this could be used later on to draw in even more people.

thecybear
23rd Feb 2014, 03:48
For me I love having a lot of customization, but when a game first comes out I don't expect it to have a lot of customization. I do expect a character to be more customizable as more game patches/updates are released.

Especially themed skins/items like goofy funny candy themed ones. :p

WraithShadow13
8th Mar 2014, 01:29
Has anyone here been following Transformers Universe? I'm a Transformers fan as well, but what kills me is some of the things they're doing over in that game. Part of which is how they've treated their own community, but some of it is the decisions they've made in the game, most of which are heavily around the customization. I figured this might be a good place to ask for another opinion, given that it's a community who loves a given IP for a game that's not like any other in the series. If need be, I can take this to the off topic forums.

For the first few years of development, the game was all about making your own character, then shortly after allowing people to sign up for beta, they dropped everything they'd promised and went completely silent for almost a full year, ignoring their own community and the fans. From there they've explained that they couldn't do custom characters because A) it didn't fit the gamestyle, and B) the models would have suffered for it (i forget the exact wording they used). The problem there is, the game style is similar to this game (hence the importance of this community's opinion, and the models they're using, aren't really different from the FoC multiplayer models. The only similarity between alt mode is a few pieces on the torso. Even watching them transform, it very clearly isn't a transition as much as it is a quick model switch. There is no physical way the bots in game could make the vehicles. Custom characters is what they've hyped the game on for years, and even now, there are people posting on the forums that still think this is a full feature in the game. It is literally, the only feature that people have been asking for, and it's become a major issues of their forums to the point of being a "YOU HAD ONE JOB!" meme.

The Question is this. How difficult would this really be for this style of game? Had the dev team aimed for custom vampire/humans, how difficult would it be in comparison to if they decided to add it after launch using the skins for assets? How long does a game of this style take to develop as a whole? Given that we know we're getting skins and a few abilities to choose from, are the devs able to talk about any other ways we might be getting to customize our characters (tints, skill points, finishers, things like that).

As a secondary question, if (it's unlikely, but IF) they decided to add an indepth character creation to this game, what would you want to have in it? Feel free to use other games as an example, but i know for a fact that many of the fans here already have a character they would want to bring into the Nosgoth universe.

I'll behave now and keep to the Nosgoth goodness, but I am Curious as to the opinions of the devs and the community as well.

hirukaru
8th Mar 2014, 01:41
For me I love having a lot of customization, but when a game first comes out I don't expect it to have a lot of customization. I do expect a character to be more customizable as more game patches/updates are released.

Especially themed skins/items like goofy funny candy themed ones. :p

The game will have more and more skins.
From cheaper to more expensive once.


If there will be themed stuff I don't know. I do know that real customization like you see in MMORPG games won't be in this game. (At least not yet)

Viridian24
8th Mar 2014, 13:42
Typically in arena games like this, character customization is not a big focus, beyond skins. It's always nice to have more skins but honestly, I'm surprised at the sheer number of skins already out, considering how new the game is. I would have expected maybe 1 or 2 per class at best, or maybe even no skins at all until the game is launched. I'm not too big of a fan of the "silly" skins though, especially for a game with this kind of theme and art style. I'd rather not be running around next to a Tyrant dressed up as Santa Clause, that would kind of kill the immersion. lol

hirukaru
8th Mar 2014, 13:48
Typically in arena games like this, character customization is not a big focus, beyond skins. It's always nice to have more skins but honestly, I'm surprised at the sheer number of skins already out, considering how new the game is. I would have expected maybe 1 or 2 per class at best, or maybe even no skins at all until the game is launched. I'm not too big of a fan of the "silly" skins though, especially for a game with this kind of theme and art style. I'd rather not be running around next to a Tyrant dressed up as Santa Clause, that would kind of kill the immersion. lol

I agree with you the themed once I do not like my self but maybe an option to turn those on/off in systems. But I don't think themed skins will come in the game.

And I think the psyonix team if they read your post would like to thank you that you like it that they have so much "premium" skins already out. They are working on cheaper runestone skins also.
and ofcourse the evolved skins.

Nomado-Coyote
9th Mar 2014, 07:42
The game needs to be fun to play as well as run smoothly. More focus should be put on cleaning it up and fine tuning it before they worry about how they're going to paint it so to speak.

Part of the problem here though, is that they're already going to have a lot to do in terms of adding more Female characters. People want them, and it doesn't make much sense to leave them as a single class on the one faction, so while they're adding more female versions of animations and rigging the skeletons for ladies, they have a perfect opportunity to split the skins into parts. Add if a few new faces and hair styles, and you have an early full customization build, that beats most games of this style out there.

Game companies like skins because they're easier than changable parts, and this style of Moba because it's much faster and easier to do than a full on MMO. The issue is that with everyone doing them, they're all the same minus the IP. Adding fully customizable characters adds a depth to the game the others won't have. Plus they're going to make more money selling as a costume pack rather than just skins.

...*ommitted part*....

This system WOULD be a bit of work though, but one that i feel would only benefit the game more, especially if it were cosmetic only. Nothing to balance, just a fun way to draw in the fans as well as new players. I honestly have no problem if we have to wait a year after launch before they released a full cosmetic character creation tool, it would be worth it. Let them build the game to be as good as possible, but once they have it where they want it, this could be used later on to draw in even more people.

THAT


Typically in arena games like this, character customization is not a big focus, beyond skins. It's always nice to have more skins but honestly, I'm surprised at the sheer number of skins already out, considering how new the game is. I would have expected maybe 1 or 2 per class at best, or maybe even no skins at all until the game is launched. I'm not too big of a fan of the "silly" skins though, especially for a game with this kind of theme and art style. I'd rather not be running around next to a Tyrant dressed up as Santa Clause, that would kind of kill the immersion. lol

and THAT.

exactly what I was going to write here.
I really think that so far the game exceeded expectations in terms of not only a balance and gameplay but also the looks, design and skin availability! ALSO the forum staff response is great, that's just very nice to see, A LOT of MMO games, even b2p or subscription based, lately (in their beta stages or not) don't have this. So we can't ask much more in such short times at all. This is going beautiful.

And as being already said to implement a full char customization option is a big work, you really need to make all the opposite-gender animations for classes and if separate armor pieces then even more work and all. It's a big work that is not exactly needed right now and can be done steadily over time or just plainly later, far more later. It would surely be nice to have something closer to Loadout or TPB in terms of customization (interchangeable gear parts can be great, people will just buy different sets to mix em up), but it can wait. Bug-less stable and balanced gameplay always comes first.

What I think would be nice in not so long-future setting is just that limited-palette tinting\coloring for existing and soon-to-come skins and the default skins. It still has to come in non-immersion-breaking colors but that would be nice (a somewhat good example to look at is War of Roses, palette may be too bright but it really helps you distinguish players in-game even in non-expensive non-fancy-armor and that is very very nice).
Still classes and bug-less gameplay\client\interface come before that.