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Radius86
13th Jan 2009, 15:12
This thread does concern Adam Jensen, but I've left it out of the discussion board for him because it has more to do with a theory that involves events after the game's potential end.

I'm known to read a lot into events and proceedings, that more often than not I've been proved wrong, but I was just wondering last night after an impressive amount of inebriation and talking with a few friends...

Has anyone actually latched onto the idea that Jensen might be a father to Paul and JC? According to Juan Lebedev, JC's parents were employees of the United Nations and were killed when they started to object to MJ12s grand plans for their children.

Also, remember in DX, on the docks, JC is surprised that his father made a toast to Paul's augmentations on his graduation from the Academy, implying that he wasn't a big fan of them himself. "Strange that he could be so proud, when so much was due to...our augmentations.'

I sort of built this story in my head that Adam might be one of those security guards turned heroes who is simply in place accidentally. He might not want the heavy augmentations, but be compelled to use them. So he gets through the game, using the augs, And as the game ends, and he is rewarded for defeating the enemy, he could probably have been offered a job at a biomechanical factory linked to the government to study nano augmentation/ a UN organizational body to combat terrorism, that was top secret. That's where the game would end anyway, but not Adam Jensen's story. He thinks he's done good for himself and agrees to donate his little soldiers to create Paul and JC with good intentions. What if then just as we all did in the original game, Adam decides to question who his employers really are, and what they do? How would an organization like a potential MJ12 react to that? They'd kill him most likely.

Anyway, rambling with no facts is dangerous, so I'll stop this theory here. But Id like to know whether it might be possible that this could be true, in other words what the rest of you think. ;)

In serious retrospect, I think it would be a douche George Lucas move if it happened this way. (Rene, I hope you're listening. :whistle: )

Absentia
13th Jan 2009, 17:00
Yeah, the thought crossed my mind too, but the DX Bible does clearly state JC's parents as 'Mr. and Mrs Denton' - only the JC part is his codename. ('Welcome to the Coalition JC. I might as well start using your codename') so it doesn't seem likely at all that Adam Jensen is his father. Plus, the Dentons in 2027 would still be surrounded by MJ12 workers parading as regular people, trying for their second child. Paul would be something like 9 years old.
I'd really like to meet the Dentons as Adam though, or have them as key characters in the plot.

Spyhopping
13th Jan 2009, 17:35
I think its just a small inconsistency, but Denton is said to be a codename in one of Jamie Reyes emails to JC -

"Guess I'll have to get used to calling you "J.C." around the office. Not sure where they came up with that, but at least they gave you the same last codename as your brother."

René
13th Jan 2009, 18:04
That's an interesting theory. It's possible but I just don't know. It's probably split 50/50 on whether people would like that.

Absentia
13th Jan 2009, 18:07
I think its just a small inconsistency, but Denton is said to be a codename in one of Jamie Reyes emails to JC -

"Guess I'll have to get used to calling you "J.C." around the office. Not sure where they came up with that, but at least they gave you the same last codename as your brother."

Ooh, interesting...well, I guess it's hard to keep everything consistent once the very fine details have already been written down and set in stone..

ZylonBane
13th Jan 2009, 18:47
That's an interesting theory. It's possible but I just don't know. It's probably split 50/50 on whether people would like that.
I'm going to predict that the sort of gamers who loved DX, and hated IW, would find such a twist to be excruciatingly stupid.

Excessive, and excessively specific, references to future events are exactly the reason why prequels in general have such a horrible reputation. They're driven by pure fan service and laziness.

I suppose there's a certain irony to the fact the DX proposed a vast, global network of massive secret societies entangling with and battling against one another, which J.C. encountered only the tiniest sliver of in DX1, and yet people keep suggesting that DX3 have the player encounter that same sliver all over again.

It represents a stunningly abject failure of imagination on the part of these people.

K^2
13th Jan 2009, 19:04
It is a little known fact that Walter Simons reveals to JC that he is his father and offers to overthrow Page and rule the world as father and son.

Spyhopping
13th Jan 2009, 20:43
It would be interesting for Adam to have a link with the Dentons, but perhaps it would be more compelling if done in a subtle way. I'm not sure if the timeline would be right for it, but I like the idea that was expressed somewhere on the forum of Jensen having something to do with Sam Carters "merced operation".

Radius86
13th Jan 2009, 20:52
I'm going to predict that the sort of gamers who loved DX, and hated IW, would find such a twist to be excruciatingly stupid.

Excessive, and excessively specific, references to future events are exactly the reason why prequels in general have such a horrible reputation. They're driven by pure fan service and laziness.

I suppose there's a certain irony to the fact the DX proposed a vast, global network of massive secret societies entangling with and battling against one another, which J.C. encountered only the tiniest sliver of in DX1, and yet people keep suggesting that DX3 have the player encounter that same sliver all over again.

It represents a stunningly abject failure of imagination on the part of these people.


Whoa..You might have missed the fact that while I did post that as a theory, I didn't fully support it either. For two reasons, one being most of what you said up there, and the other being that it's a sort of easy escape route to take if you're writing the game. However you have to admit that its at least a little interesting, certainly not excruciatingly stupid. I'm not trying to argue with your point of view or anything, but I find your lack of faith rather disturbing...*Jedi choke hold* :o

However, that being said, we've all seen what comes of trying to detach yourself from the player and being thrust deep into the core of one of those massive secret societies and having every choice laid in front of you to choose as well. It's called IW. And I don't think it worked out too well, because the deviation was way too obtuse.

And Im not saying encounter the same sliver of the original game through to the very end. But it is vital in my opinion that however the developers do it, it has to somehow be acceptable that the events of DX are a possible if not probable future of the events of DX3.

Which actually made me think whether we needed 4 endings or not at the end of this game. While fans will slay me for saying this, I think I will respect the cojones of any developer who gives a free choice ride through a Deus Ex game, and end it with just one definite non linear ending. Considering its a prequel and all.

Of course, that's quite probably not going to happen, as its already been reported (somewhere or the other) that this game has multiple endings too. The only point Im trying to make with all this is trying to find the best way to tie the perfect knot on this series. If the devs can show me 4 ways of tying that knot, awesome! :thumb:

3nails4you
14th Jan 2009, 00:32
It is a little known fact that Walter Simons reveals to JC that he is his father and offers to overthrow Page and rule the world as father and son.

Um? Walton?

jamhaw
14th Jan 2009, 01:01
Well, Jenson does look a little like a Denton, although it could just be the sunglasses. (I'm assuming that Jenson is the one with the cigarette, some sites claim Jenson is the guy with the belt buckle)

jamhaw
14th Jan 2009, 01:03
Yeah, the thought crossed my mind too, but the DX Bible does clearly state JC's parents as 'Mr. and Mrs Denton' - only .

I don't think so, didn't someone comment in the game that it was nice that your last code/name was the same as your brothers?

iWait
14th Jan 2009, 04:16
I think AJ should be Gunther's cousin, and Gunther would be the father of the Dentons.

Makes perfect sense.

InGroove2
14th Jan 2009, 04:55
i think the only way this could pan out is to not relate the dentons and jensen at all. maybe make the dentons just a mention or two somewhere....

but it seems to me, a simple way to have 4 endings AND fit in with DX, is to simply decide for which side we fight for, that is the sides fighting it out in DX will be what Jensen has to decide, which cause he will champion... maybe none at all.

maybe be n the Illuminati, mj12, tong, unatco, NSF, SIlhouette, become nothing/just a regular dude....

so you could meet characters from DX, but not have to necessarily tie into the denton saga.

just spitballin here.

Dead-Eye
14th Jan 2009, 05:17
Adam should have no biological relation to the Dentons. Keep in mind how lame it was when you find out Alex D. is really Alex Denton... surprises, surprise the D is for Denton. :rasp:

GmanPro
14th Jan 2009, 05:32
AJ as JC's father? NOOOOOOOOOOO! (http://dvnooooo.ytmnd.com/)

Ihsan
14th Jan 2009, 06:41
Im not sure that it could work that he is their father. As was posted before it was stated that JC's parents where killed, and as you play towards the end of DX1 you actually meet and kill them (the 2 dudes in black in area 51, if i recall correctly). Doesnt seem to me that two mooks like that could take out Adam, from what iv seen of his powered up mods etc.

Alternatively they might have used a kill switch on Adam, but then that would cause inconsistencies. My view is that it would be nice to see the Dentons, but Adam being the father might be to cliche.

GmanPro
14th Jan 2009, 06:46
Im not sure that it could work that he is their father. As was posted before it was stated that JC's parents where killed, and as you play towards the end of DX1 you actually meet and kill them (the 2 dudes in black in area 51, if i recall correctly). Doesnt seem to me that two mooks like that could take out Adam, from what iv seen of his powered up mods etc.

Alternatively they might have used a kill switch on Adam, but then that would cause inconsistencies. My view is that it would be nice to see the Dentons, but Adam being the father might be to cliche.

If by 'them' you mean the parent's killers then yah.

Lol, I used to just lob an explosive into the elevator as it opened. Good times...

K^2
14th Jan 2009, 06:47
It is a little known fact that Walter Simons reveals to JC that he is his father and offers to overthrow Page and rule the world as father and son
Um? Walton?
Yeah, see, Walton used to use light augs, just like JC does, but Page later showed him how to use the dark ones. So that's why Paul told JC that his father died. But really, it was Paul who taught Walton Simons how to use augs to begin with.

spm1138
14th Jan 2009, 12:37
It'd be a bit soap opera-ey if it was the case.

APostLife
14th Jan 2009, 14:59
I think its just a small inconsistency, but Denton is said to be a codename in one of Jamie Reyes emails to JC -

"Guess I'll have to get used to calling you "J.C." around the office. Not sure where they came up with that, but at least they gave you the same last codename as your brother."

What!? I am totally confused!? Then what is "JC" real name is? Everyone officially calls him "JC Denton", so that would mean that is his real name - or they don't know his real name so they use his codename in place for his real name? And what is this bible ur talking about?

Spyhopping
14th Jan 2009, 16:03
They say that the Denton brothers' names are more or less code names. This allows you to put in a name of your choice at the start screen and the name subsequently comes up in a few emails in place of 'JC Denton'. It is a little inconsistent though

Deus ex bible-- http://archive.gamespy.com/articles/april02/dxbible/

^Give it a read, it's pretty interesting!

MaxxQ1
14th Jan 2009, 18:55
What!? I am totally confused!? Then what is "JC" real name is? Everyone officially calls him "JC Denton", so that would mean that is his real name - or they don't know his real name so they use his codename in place for his real name? And what is this bible ur talking about?

JC's real name is the name you type in at the character creation screen at the beginning of the game. There's a couple of newscast/booth thingys you can read in the game that mention JC's "real" name.

Absentia
14th Jan 2009, 19:27
Yeah, someone in UNATCO (I think it's Jaime) emails you near the beginning and calls you by your 'real' name.

Mindmute
14th Jan 2009, 23:22
What!? I am totally confused!? Then what is "JC" real name is? Everyone officially calls him "JC Denton", so that would mean that is his real name - or they don't know his real name so they use his codename in place for his real name? And what is this bible ur talking about?

Jamie, news around the world, e-mails concerning you and even the pod in the clone chamber at Area 51 have your "real name" (the name you can type in for your character), so yes JC Denton *is* just a callsign.

In fact, unless I'm horribly confused on Liberty Island Paul says "I might aswell start using your codename" after calling him JC.


The bible is a document that can still be found online that has the backstory and setting for Deus Ex, unless I'm wrong most of it comes directly from the dev documents.

FrankCSIS
15th Jan 2009, 00:04
Whatever happens at the end of DX3, be sure to treat AJ well, clean him up, and have his mind wiped :whistle:

singularity
15th Jan 2009, 11:12
Maybe I have my timelines a little fuzzy, but wouldn't JC and Paul have already been born by the time this game is taking place? Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't they be about 9 or so?

El_Bel
15th Jan 2009, 11:27
Paul is 9 years old. Jc is not born yet.
And i hope this cliche storyline does not make it in the game.

singularity
15th Jan 2009, 11:31
Paul is 9 years old. Jc is not born yet.
And i hope this cliche storyline does not make it in the game.

Gotcha -- thanks. For whatever reason, I kept thinking they were twins (which would be impossible if JC was the "secondary unit").
My vote is to also keep Alex and JC unrelated in as many ways as possible.

Spyhopping
15th Jan 2009, 13:50
Alex and JC

Nooooo! Not Alex, please! ;)

3nails4you
15th Jan 2009, 20:43
Yeah, see, Walton used to use light augs, just like JC does, but Page later showed him how to use the dark ones. So that's why Paul told JC that his father died. But really, it was Paul who taught Walton Simons how to use augs to begin with.

I think you have the wrong story...however, I was only correcting your use of Walter instead of Walton in the 1st post.

El_Bel
15th Jan 2009, 21:14
Gotcha -- thanks. For whatever reason, I kept thinking they were twins (which would be impossible if JC was the "secondary unit").
My vote is to also keep Alex and JC unrelated in as many ways as possible.

Well they ARE identical twins born eleven years apart.

JC is a clone of his older brother Paul Denton (thus, he is referred to as the "Secondary Unit" by Bob Page and Walton Simons and why Morpheus makes no mention of Paul as a relative) and a prototype created by shadowy organization Majestic 12 to test their nano-augmentation program. As a result of screening, Paul was found to have the right combination of biological and genetic factors to make him a good candidate for the nano-augmentation program. To create more compatible test subjects, Majestic 12 produced clones of Paul, but most failed to accept the augmentations. His parents, however, were infertile after Paul's birth. They approached MJ12 looking for a method to have a new baby. MJ12 offered one, in the form of the implantation of an embryo. This procedure produced a clone of Paul, which would later become JC Denton. -wikipedia and DX bible.

Alex Denton the same embryo clone, but was implanted in a different womb. The tank in area 51 is actually empty if you look at it with your targeting aug, so its a solid hologram.

I wonder if EM will consider this the cannon.. Rene, please answer even if the Dentons have nothing to do with DX3... I want to create some fan fiction and i want to get my cannon straight from the horses mouth!!

qJohnnyp
16th Jan 2009, 00:34
The bible is a document that can still be found online that has the backstory and setting for Deus Ex, unless I'm wrong most of it comes directly from the dev documents.

http://archive.gamespy.com/articles/april02/dxbible/ for your reading pleasure. Well, those of you who don't know it by heard already ;)

2018: Paul Denton born
2023: Paul, age 5, selected as test subject, cloned
2028: Tests on clones show limited success; Paul's mother impregnated with J.C.
2029: J.C. Denton bor

Well, AJ might discover those MJXII meddlings and even see Paul at some point but he can't be his father.

René
16th Jan 2009, 22:25
Rene, please answer even if the Dentons have nothing to do with DX3... I want to create some fan fiction and i want to get my cannon straight from the horses mouth!!

I can't answer that one way or another...the writing team would kill me! It's too early to say.

El_Bel
16th Jan 2009, 22:30
Wow, didnt know it was so much of a deal :eek: :nut: :D

But cant you just confirm that DX bible will be cannon? I dont want any other info except that......... Oh god damn it, i know you cant and i hate it that i cant ask questions about this!!! :D

Jerion
16th Jan 2009, 22:35
^^ You're not alone. ;) :D

ZylonBane
16th Jan 2009, 22:38
I want to create some fan fiction and i want to get my cannon straight from the horses mouth!!
Trust me, you do not want a cannon from a horse's mouth.

René
16th Jan 2009, 22:39
I can't say anything right now, sorry. Hmm but what's already out there...? Well, you know that Sheldon Pacotti is consulting, right? Not sure what that says on this particular topic but it's something. The DX Bible also says "What that means is that the related pieces of backstory should be considered truthful and should be supported whenever possible but not necessarily with religious fervor. It would be perfectly valid to re-imagine what's really going on at the "moon base," for instance."

So in terms of an fanfic, I think you have a license to modify things for your story.

Castrol GTX
18th Jan 2009, 05:53
Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Absentia
18th Jan 2009, 12:10
I think you have the wrong story...however, I was only correcting your use of Walter instead of Walton in the 1st post.

How is it not possible to see the joke?