PDA

View Full Version : Hylden



voldemuf
2nd Feb 2014, 15:06
Will be Hylden race playable?
In my opinion the main confrontation in single-player games was between vampires and hylden.
The last one were who corrupted vampires.
So I think in future there must be 3 playable races: Vampires, Hylden and Human.
Another way is to save 2 playable races as now, and add Hyldens as mobs later, may be in some PVE mode.
For example: Vampires and Humans (players) vs Hylden (mobs) :gamer:

RainaAudron
2nd Feb 2014, 15:25
"Will we be seeing any other type of faction, other than humans and vampires?"
George Kellion: I think we're going to be only seeing humans and vampires in this game. These are the two factions that are around in this era. The Hylden aren't there in this particular timeline.
This.

ParadoxicalOmen
2nd Feb 2014, 15:53
Not only did the Hylden not appear in the SR1 era, but i think it's safe to assume that they have been "re-banished" thanks to the events of BO2 (Nexus stone closing their portal and whatnot).

Vampmaster
2nd Feb 2014, 16:15
They were still able to possess corpses and humans even before they escaped the demon dimension. The vessels may not be as durable as Mortanius or Turel, but I doubt that would stop them trying.

I think as long as they aren't there in person and their name remains Unspoken (no one knows they're called hylden), then I dont think it would break canon. I think if they supported the war from the humans side my means of a channeller/medium or necromancer, that couldbe appropriate.

One of those could be a human class who gains power by allowing these "spirits" to possess their bodies.

Lord_Aevum
2nd Feb 2014, 18:17
Well, the Hylden had a particularly special stake in the events of Defiance. From their perspective, the champions' battle was supposed to be this last-ditch epic conflict to decide the future of their race, so of course they'd go to maximum lengths to influence Raziel and exploit his free will. The fact that the Binding was at its weakest ever, with the corruption and collapse of the Pillars straining the barriers between realms, uniquely allowed for this too.

I don't think they care to participate in the Soul Reaver era, though, if they actually can. They didn't try to manipulate Raziel when he was wandering around in that time period, and they can preview the timeline, so it's not likely they'd elect to fight in random skirmishes which history says they're going to lose. Plus, nobody aside from Kain is even really supposed to know that they exist at this stage.

The_Hylden
2nd Feb 2014, 18:35
Not only did the Hylden not appear in the SR1 era, but i think it's safe to assume that they have been "re-banished" thanks to the events of BO2 (Nexus stone closing their portal and whatnot).

This takes place on the timeline before Kain and Raziel went back and chancged history, so before BO2's events were introduced. On this timeline, Janos was never raised and the Hylden never crossed forth into Nosgoth for young Kain to fight.


Yes, the Hylden could still probably cross their souls over to possess people, maybe even morph them into hideous beasts/demonic monsters, but the question is what they would have to gain from it. I can't see much of a real reason for them to enter, especially in this war between vampires and humans. This doesn't help them in any way. Maybe a few Hylden would just do it out of boredom, or because they really just hate vampires that much that they'd want to help these already doomed lot fail (doomed, as in Kain's empire is ultimately doomed) ... but really there's not much of a reason for them here. However, they are quite mad, so reason doesn't really pertain to them :p

Plus, putting aside a real reason for them to be seen, perhaps the team could just implement some skins down the road with glowing green eyes, maybe even distorted and grotesque features, hinting at Hylden possession as just a nod only to the fans. Alternate skins, I mean, but no real lore attached to them. There's a lot more to do first for the actual game and lore, but yeah some things like this as nods I think would be welcome, eventually. It wouldn't make sense for something like Sarafan armor to be worn, as another for instance, but as a non-lore, non-cannon alternate skin later on-- things like this would be nice for that alone.

Vampmaster
2nd Feb 2014, 22:45
@Lord_Aevum You said the binding was at its weakest ever at Blood Omen/Defiance. Does that mean the binding started to recover after BO1? I thought the only difference between the second and fourth timeline (the one we're on now?) from the hylden's perspective was that they didn't have Janos as their incorruptable vessel before and now they do. So even after Kain dealt with them in BO2, they're as capable as they were when they first possessed Mortanius and Turel.

Besides that, they're not just going to give up accept that they're going to be there forever. It would *take* forever search through all of time to be absolutely certain they're never going to get out. It's like saying "show me what happens on day infinity". Whatever number you pick, there's always a day after. Then when time travel is involved, someone from a time beyond that which you've looked at could always come back and effect the past. In other words, there's always going to be something you can't predict.

@The_Hylden. As for what they have to gain, the extermination of the vampires has always been an agenda for many of them. They also have to set up any future chain of events they might be involved in. Turel's presence in Defiance is one event that a writer could decide to have them involved with, but they could have many schemes in motion.

If, as I was saying to Lord_Aevum, infinity is a moving goal post, then what I'd expect the hylden to do is make a bunch of plans, see what fate has to say about them, them make some more plans and repeat. It may turn out they are destined to carry out those plans even knowing they'll fail, or even that looking into the future to see that the plans would fail is what caused them to use those plans in the first place.

Lord_Aevum
3rd Feb 2014, 00:23
In the Defiance manual and other material, it's repeatedly said that "after the corruption of the Pillars of Nosgoth, the barriers between dimensions began to weaken". Janos specifically notes that the Binding is actually failing just before the Pillars collapse in Defiance, with the stresses of the corruption and Kain's refusal causing them to explode.

However, Daniel says (http://www.dcabdesign.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1954#p1954) "one thing to remember, the Pillars aren't completely destroyed as long as a single guardian exists (thus the binding holds)". This is in line with the suggestion throughout Soul Reaver 2 that Kain's decision to live on was the only factor preventing even greater devastation in Nosgoth.

So, at least as far as I interpret it, the Binding was first weakened by the corruption of the Pillars (allowing demons, revenants, tentacles to enter Material), and then it failed during the collapse of the Pillars (allowing for Janos's possession), but Kain's survival still enabled it to recover to a reasonable extent after the Blood Omen era ended. This is why there are no demons, Hylden, or possessed people running around in Soul Reaver despite the Pillars' collapse.

I don't think it should be considered a trivial matter for the Hylden to possess other entities in Material. The Defiance Prima guide contains the following quote: "due to the weakening of boundaries that separate the various planes of existence, the Hylden’s strength over the realm of Nosgoth is increasing. This allows them within various degrees the ability to possess hapless victims and subvert them to their cause". This practice of possession seems to be closely dependent on the events going on with the Pillars in that particular time period, and since they must project and expose their very souls in the process, it's obviously very risky.

It's just like you say, they have important plans to carry out and goals to accomplish. In general, there's probably not much of a compelling incentive for them to waste any of their limited resources on irrelevant battles in this era. If they want to escape the Demon Realm, they should be trying to murder Kain, and he is absent during these events, so there is no point in gatecrashing the war.

Sluagh
6th Feb 2014, 09:44
It's just like you say, they have important plans to carry out and goals to accomplish. In general, there's probably not much of a compelling incentive for them to waste any of their limited resources on irrelevant battles in this era. If they want to escape the Demon Realm, they should be trying to murder Kain, and he is absent during these events, so there is no point in gatecrashing the war.

I think that sounds a fairly decent explanation. Although the task of getting Turel (post-SR) would be interesting with Azimuth and Mortainius, as a Hylden sponsored plot. The latter Guardian becomes disenchanted with the Hash thing doesn't he, as he realises the Pillars must return to vampire guardianship? I always thought this was a sign of him not being quite as mad as the others Circle (with the exception of Moebius), as he is able to resist some of the possession he is experiencing. Also a question - if Raziel didn't enter the Reaver at the end of Defiance as occurred (and killed Turel prior to this), but instead entered it after killing his Sarafan self, changing the end of SR 2 then what would have happened to Turel otherwise? Would he just have died from being over possessed, or no longer useful? Would the Hylden have made some last ditch attempt to use him, without having a strong vessel like Janos?

Lord_Aevum
6th Feb 2014, 11:20
Also a question - if Raziel didn't enter the Reaver at the end of Defiance as occurred (and killed Turel prior to this), but instead entered it after killing his Sarafan self, changing the end of SR 2 then what would have happened to Turel otherwise? Would he just have died from being over possessed, or no longer useful? Would the Hylden have made some last ditch attempt to use him, without having a strong vessel like Janos?

I thought it would be hilarious to have Turel chance upon his future/past self. Amy Hennig did say "Janos and Turel - as immortal Vampires - could last forever, but Turel was trapped in the Catacombs". Since Raziel isn't around to kill him in this timeline, maybe Hash'ak'gik might live long enough to catch up to Turel in the Soul Reaver era :)

Sluagh
6th Feb 2014, 12:33
Yeah. It also made Moebius saying, "He is the last...to die." In Blood Omen (post paradox 1) a bit premature, as Hash/Turel was still under Avernus cathedral. Unless of course they'd already dealt, or planned to deal with him.

GeekedUpJuicy
7th Feb 2014, 02:57
This takes place on the timeline before Kain and Raziel went back and chancged history, so before BO2's events were introduced. On this timeline, Janos was never raised and the Hylden never crossed forth into Nosgoth for young Kain to fight.


Yes, the Hylden could still probably cross their souls over to possess people, maybe even morph them into hideous beasts/demonic monsters, but the question is what they would have to gain from it. I can't see much of a real reason for them to enter, especially in this war between vampires and humans. This doesn't help them in any way. Maybe a few Hylden would just do it out of boredom, or because they really just hate vampires that much that they'd want to help these already doomed lot fail (doomed, as in Kain's empire is ultimately doomed) ... but really there's not much of a reason for them here. However, they are quite mad, so reason doesn't really pertain to them :p

Plus, putting aside a real reason for them to be seen, perhaps the team could just implement some skins down the road with glowing green eyes, maybe even distorted and grotesque features, hinting at Hylden possession as just a nod only to the fans. Alternate skins, I mean, but no real lore attached to them. There's a lot more to do first for the actual game and lore, but yeah some things like this as nods I think would be welcome, eventually. It wouldn't make sense for something like Sarafan armor to be worn, as another for instance, but as a non-lore, non-cannon alternate skin later on-- things like this would be nice for that alone.

That would be awesome as a Beta-exclusive item or something similar.