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View Full Version : Eidos lay off 30 staff members from Crystal Dynamics



Omega
11th Jan 2009, 12:37
Link to news article (http://www.developmag.com/news/31073/Lay-offs-hit-Tomb-Raider-developer-Crystal-Dynamics).

Basically due to poor sales, Eidos made 30 people jobless within Crystal Dynamics.

They also go on to say:


Unlike other publisher-owned studios, which have linked lay-offs to the economic pinch, Eidos said the move was part of a 'reduction of headcount' at the studio as it looks to focus on just the Tomb Raider titles.

Does this mean no more Legacy of Kain?

What about our very own Butterfly Lord?

I'd just like to point out, however, for people not to take my above question too seriously. Let's remember that people are losing their jobs, and a next Legacy of Kain game isn't as important as peoples livelihoods.

hellwalker
11th Jan 2009, 16:02
I'd just like to point out, however, for people not to take my above question too seriously. Let's remember that people are losing their jobs, and a next Legacy of Kain game isn't as important as peoples livelihoods.

it is :mad2:
people are no more than a cattle whose only purpose is to provide blood to vampires.. or make games about them.

TheWatcher
12th Jan 2009, 16:48
I'd say that's a huge mistake, whether we get another LoK title or not. As with most other aspects of life, strength lies in diversity and Eidos hanging its hat on the success of a single series almost insures failure down the road.

The Tomb Raider series will eventually fall out of favor, and the article itself states that the latest TR title suffered from "disappointing sales". What sense does it then make to focus the efforts of an entire studio on that franchise?

Yautjatraker/Albatraous
12th Jan 2009, 17:05
Tomb Raider was moved from Core Design to Crystal Dynamics, whose to say that something like this couldn't happen with LOK? If CD are "stuck" with TR development, I would be more than happy to have a different team make the next game. So long as they stayed true to the source material and storyline of course.

krycekuva
12th Jan 2009, 18:47
well lik it or not,.. making another TR or LoK would feed those families... so i rather have teams working on those both mega titles, instead of trying to milk the cow and do bad decisions all the time...

dragonfly2
12th Jan 2009, 19:35
I find it strange that they would just stick to one game that they think makes the bucks since I read on Game spot that eidos lost money with the new Tomb Raider Under World. Sales for the game plummeted.

Omega
12th Jan 2009, 20:57
Sales didn't plummet.

If I recall, sales were only around 25% less of what Eidos were expecting.

Given the current economic climate (blimey I hate that phrase), I'd say that was pretty good...

UMIST_For_Ever
12th Jan 2009, 21:41
Forecasting involves many strings of input including economic conditions.

Either the Finance department believe that they are untouchable (highly unlikely in the current economic conditions) or this profit forecasting is worrying - if they anticipate such high sales and ignore the economic climate, then there are some very large, deep, dark problems that they are not prepared to release to the general public.

edit: as long as it isn't the lovely Keir or the brand Manager Kathryn, it should be okay - the pair of them clearly have a dedicated work-ethic and booting them out would be a BIG mistake.

rg_001100
12th Jan 2009, 23:36
The Tomb Raider series will eventually fall out of favor, and the article itself states that the latest TR title suffered from "disappointing sales". What sense does it then make to focus the efforts of an entire studio on that franchise?

Would a new LoK game necessarily fall into the favour that Eidos wants?
Would the new LoK game be as successful as they hope a TR game could be?
Perhaps Eidos think it is safer to remain with TR, rather than LoK.

Shrykull_the1st
13th Jan 2009, 00:30
Man, pass it to Naughty Dog....they're awsome...

TheWatcher
13th Jan 2009, 02:45
Man, pass it to Naughty Dog....they're awsome...lol, that would probably be Amy Hennig's worst nightmare (assuming she's even still there). I'm sure one of the reasons she went to Naughty Dog was to get away from LoK. :lol:

Shrykull_the1st
13th Jan 2009, 09:34
Why don't they sell the franchise already? One would think they still have plans for it if they don't do so....OR noone want's to buy it =P which I don't think is the case... OR could the employees have a say on the matter?? Like they not wanting LoK to be sold so they can still work on it...

mort
13th Jan 2009, 15:36
ok, i can understand them reducing the amount of games... but forusing soiuly on TR... bad idea. bad idea to focuse on any one game.

after all the logic is that people will have to keep buying the games, fine but only so many people will be interested. this amount will reduce as you keep producing new games that are under the same title because eventually it will get boring and repetartive for your players.

in this situation i dont mind lok being set back, peoples lives are more important. but i do think that it is a big mistake to just focuse on one game.

tho this is talking without figures of sales.

Linikratyo
13th Jan 2009, 17:34
I'm now getting a bit depressed I think...... :(

Vampmaster
13th Jan 2009, 23:00
So they put all their eggs in one basket and then if the next TR game doesn't sell, the whole studio gets shut down. Great plan Eidos! :rolleyes: If Underworld was as rushed as it looked judging from the number of times it crashed when I played it then less people would certainly not make it any better. Couldn't these 30 people be patching up all these bugs or better yet, working on the next Kain game? If two games are being made at once, then any code that isn't specific to to one project gets the benefit of twice as much effort and if one game doesn't sell the other still might, so it's less of a risk.

Anyway, I think this is less to do with CD's performance and more to do with paranoia about the "current economic climate", Eidos own impatience and probably some 12 year old's rant over on the TR forums. There's no way the developers would miss the bugs in that game unless they were deliberately told to ignore them for the same of getting the game out in time.

Shrykull_the1st
13th Jan 2009, 23:46
That's absolutely right! And they needed someone to tell them that right in they're faces...

It's all about the money.....what a shame that these publishers only see games as money making products...and there's nothing to do about it isn't it?...

RainaAudron
14th Jan 2009, 20:07
So they put all their eggs in one basket and then if the next TR game doesn't sell, the whole studio gets shut down. Great plan Eidos! :rolleyes: If Underworld was as rushed as it looked judging from the number of times it crashed when I played it then less people would certainly not make it any better. Couldn't these 30 people be patching up all these bugs or better yet, working on the next Kain game? If two games are being made at once, then any code that isn't specific to to one project gets the benefit of twice as much effort and if one game doesn't sell the other still might, so it's less of a risk.

I totally agree with your post - now it seems Eidos wants to focus on TR franchise only, which is scary really...I hope it gets sold to another company now..it seems like the old days when Eidos published many games is over...:(

The_Hylden
14th Jan 2009, 21:18
Yup, I agree. Underworld went out with some much-needed tweaking still left to do. I felt also the ending was completely rushed. As pointed out in the Tomb Raider: Underwrold board by Raina, the article posted also stated that the game sold 1.5 million copies, yet was still less than what was projected. This is the reason for the lay-offs... I can't remember what Defiance sold, but it wasn't 1.5 million, I am fairly sure. It's like, what were they expecting?? They're lucky they got what they did, given the bugs in a lot of the copies of the game and how short it is, not to mention the games it was going up against that were released at that time. It's a good game, but it feels much more unfinished than any LoK games, and we know how much content has been cut out of each of those, lol.

Anyway, it's a foolish idea to put all of their efforts into one franchise, and ignore the rest. And the fact is, they currently aren't, so I am not sure when this major truncation is supposed to take effect. You have this Highlander game Eidos is publishing, still in the works, the Dues Ex game, and currently Batman: Arkham Asylum, which is set for later this year and looks fantastic/amazing/incredible... So, they aren't yet going full Tomb Raider only... You kind of wonder what they're talking about, given this, or if someone in the company just panicked and put out a stupid, untrue statement... Anyway, it's all a bit ridiculous. It's been this way with Eidos since a couple of years ago when they first had to sell the company due to poor profits and hasn't gotten any better since, the past few times they've been bought out...

rg_001100
14th Jan 2009, 21:21
So they put all their eggs in one basket and then if the next TR game doesn't sell, the whole studio gets shut down. Great plan Eidos! :rolleyes: If Underworld was as rushed as it looked judging from the number of times it crashed when I played it then less people would certainly not make it any better. Couldn't these 30 people be patching up all these bugs or better yet, working on the next Kain game? If two games are being made at once, then any code that isn't specific to to one project gets the benefit of twice as much effort and if one game doesn't sell the other still might, so it's less of a risk.

Anyway, I think this is less to do with CD's performance and more to do with paranoia about the "current economic climate", Eidos own impatience and probably some 12 year old's rant over on the TR forums. There's no way the developers would miss the bugs in that game unless they were deliberately told to ignore them for the same of getting the game out in time.
The idea to stick with one game that they hope/think is going to work, rather than multiple projects, allows them to put more focus on that project. If the resources were to be shared across multiple games, they wouldn't be as good or as big as hoped, and cumulatively probably wouldn't have made as much money as focusing on one. It's "less risk" in that one might sell, would only benefit if the success of one game overrules the loss of another, unlikely to happen if it was made with less resources.
TR:U managed to sell pretty well, not as well as Eidos was hoping for. It was rushed, (I didn't encounter the bugs you encountered, though), Eidos was just desperate for that Christmas release, and the rushing ended up costing them with the bugs. The advantage with the multiple projects would probably be that they wouldn't be rushed, because they wouldn't need to be.


I totally agree with your post - now it seems Eidos wants to focus on TR franchise only, which is scary really...I hope it gets sold to another company now..it seems like the old days when Eidos published many games is over...:(

Although I would say TR is a big focus for Eidos in general, it seems that they'll want CD to focus on TR rather than other games.

Vampmaster
14th Jan 2009, 23:54
The idea to stick with one game that they hope/think is going to work, rather than multiple projects, allows them to put more focus on that project. If the resources were to be shared across multiple games, they wouldn't be as good or as big as hoped, and cumulatively probably wouldn't have made as much money as focusing on one. It's "less risk" in that one might sell, would only benefit if the success of one game overrules the loss of another, unlikely to happen if it was made with less resources.
TR:U managed to sell pretty well, not as well as Eidos was hoping for. It was rushed, (I didn't encounter the bugs you encountered, though), Eidos was just desperate for that Christmas release, and the rushing ended up costing them with the bugs. The advantage with the multiple projects would probably be that they wouldn't be rushed, because they wouldn't need to be.

Although I would say TR is a big focus for Eidos in general, it seems that they'll want CD to focus on TR rather than other games.

You say they don't have enough resources to work on two games at once, but I was saying that they might have done if they hadn't just laid off 30 people. Afterall, CD managed to work on SR2 and BO2 at the same time. What I meant about the less risk in working on two games wasn't that one good game would compensate for all losses made on another, but at least it would help avoid a total loss.

The_Hylden
15th Jan 2009, 00:08
Oh, forgot to add:

Amy Hennig is still working with Naughty Dog. She's the Creative Director on Uncharted 2: Among Thieves for the PS3, currently in development. As per the last issue of Game Informer. She was the same on the first Uncharted, which came out November of 07. From what I've read here, that game looks absolutely amazing (Uncharted 2). I know this is way off topic, but a quote by her on the character of Nathan Drake from that game and the game, itself:

"We wanted to get him back in his element. We want to see him back in the real world that he regularly inhabits. What drives him is the solving of this historical mystery -- figuring something out that's been left unsolved for so long." She's talking out the fact he's after the treasure of the lost 13 ships of Marco Polo, which the game centers around, and him deeply immersed into the underworld of thieves he associates with to solve this.

Anyway, just popping that in here to let all ye know she still is working hard with Naughty Dog. I haven't a PS3, so alas I won't be getting this game ... unless they port it to PC anytime afterwards...

NG spent a lot of time at Hollywood screenwriting seminars and are making this game without any load times, ever, completely cinematic as the story blends without pauses really for cut scenes, and as such, I'd love to see Miss Hennig, or someone from NG (she's not the writer, or director, so there's more to the game than her talents) work on the next LoK. Not going to happen, but as immersive an experience as this looks to be, it would rock our world if it could happen...

Shrykull_the1st
15th Jan 2009, 01:34
What can we do to make ourselves heard? Why don't we get an answer already? In the interviews they keep giving us hope with those uncertain answers!

In fact, I just thought CD was giving us an hidden message when they put Kain giving that speech about hope at the end of Defiance. Hope for the saving of Nosgoth and for a new LoK game to see that happen!!

Who decides what to do with the franchise? If Eidos wants to sell LoK to another publisher, what does CD has to say in the matter?

blincoln
15th Jan 2009, 04:37
I really liked Underworld (I played the 360 version, so no crashes although I did encounter a few minor bugs), and I still think it's unwise for Eidos to put all of Crystal Dynamics' eggs in one basket. No franchise can keep going indefinitely and stay fresh.

Look at how long it took for Superman and Batman films to come around again. Look at what happened when Rick Berman refused to give Star Trek a break when it started to get predictable (I will avoid saying specifically when I think that was, to avoid a tangential debate). Look at the span of time between Metroid 3 and Metroid Prime, or between Fallout 2 and 3.

Tomb Raider is one of the most iconic game series in modern pop culture - the only other two that I can think of on its level are Halo and Grand Theft Auto, and neither of those have been turned into live action films. About the only game character I can think of who is more widely recognized than Lara Croft right now is Mario. But if there's always another Tomb Raider game right around the corner, it will stop being special and gamers will go elsewhere.

Crystal Dynamics did an impossibly good job turning the TR franchise around. I would be very sad if Eidos squandered that feat by turning them into a TR sweatshop. I almost feel like Eidos should do that more often - rotate *all* of its franchises through its various dev houses, so that no one team gets too comfortable. But give even the most successful series a break some of the time. Give the fans of those series time to wish for another, instead of assuming they will want whatever is released, whenever it's released.

Linikratyo
15th Jan 2009, 19:21
MY GOD!!!!!!!!! :eek: Just imagine that Eidos will look like it focuses on TR, but in fact they work on a secret new LoK game!! :D Then they would be surprising us by saying that the cancelling of The Dark Prophecy was just to get more interest..... and then they tell us a month before the release that it would be there!! :cool:

Just dreaming though....... :whistle:

Sina
25th Mar 2009, 12:04
That's absolutely right! And they needed someone to tell them that right in they're faces...

It's all about the money.....what a shame that these publishers only see games as money making products...and there's nothing to do about it isn't it?...

hey... are you sane?
game devs develop games for making money, not for fun & making huge fans for nothing.
how old are you?

Sina
25th Mar 2009, 12:21
The reason of focusing on 1 title, Tomb Raider, is so simple:
Why Tomb Raider? because it's the only title of Eidos that sells much higher than other titles.
I told you guys, Eidos marketing is horrible.
All of Legacy series sold less than 1 million copy, that's the reason why they dropped Legacy series: poor sale results.
Also, they don't have enough budget for developing lot's of new games.
Also, the worst part of the story is: Square Enix.
Why Square Enix?
Where's Ubisoft or EA?
What a terrible nightmare...?

mega man
10th Apr 2009, 16:41
just read it carefully and then you might understand what Eidos wants

http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=84283

VipericVampire
13th Apr 2009, 13:59
WHAT??? NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:mad2: :mad2: :mad2: :mad2: :mad2: :mad2: :mad2: :mad2: :mad2:

mega man
13th Apr 2009, 18:12
WHAT??? NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:mad2: :mad2: :mad2: :mad2: :mad2: :mad2: :mad2: :mad2: :mad2:

venomus vampire

well this
http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=84283
is not that bad that you are :mad2: :mad2: :mad2:

VoRaDoR
14th Apr 2009, 14:44
Hi ppl. It's been a long time since I last post a message. Still however there's no news on a new LOK game :scratch: 6 Years have past since I last played LOK Defiance. A good storyline, action packed game. It saddens me to think that LOK game is being held back by a loser who thinks the money is in Tomb Raider titles. This loser I protest.

By the way I haven't bought any Eidos Title after Hitman - Blood Money. A good 3+ years now. How about that then. :wave:

Linikratyo
14th Apr 2009, 18:41
Hi ppl. It's been a long time since I last post a message. Still however there's no news on a new LOK game :scratch: 6 Years have past since I last played LOK Defiance. A good storyline, action packed game. It saddens me to think that LOK game is being held back by a loser who thinks the money is in Tomb Raider titles. This loser I protest.

By the way I haven't bought any Eidos Title after Hitman - Blood Money. A good 3+ years now. How about that then. :wave:

Maybe you would like to know that there are many fan games being made by now, so you could play those :D

VipericVampire
14th Apr 2009, 20:31
well this
http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=84283
is not that bad that you are :mad2: :mad2: :mad2:

I might turn like that as well XD

VoRaDoR
22nd Apr 2009, 12:35
Maybe you would like to know that there are many fan games being made by now, so you could play those :D

:scratch: Thanks dude.