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View Full Version : Deus Ex 3 + The Birth of UNATCO = Necessity



AaronJ
9th Jan 2009, 21:10
It's a prequel, the birth of UNATCO is a requirement in this game. How do you think they'll do it?

Personally, I think the game could span over a few years, depicting the West Coast Quakes, and therefore the emergence of the NSF. Now, on the wikipedia page, it says this interesting bit about UNATCO:


"Although it is implied that UNATCO was formed in the early 21st century, the exact date of the genesis of UNATCO is unclear. Several of the game's characters have worked for the organization for many years, including Joseph Manderley, Sam Carter, Paul Denton, and Gunther Hermann. The game's protagonist, 23 years old in the game, also mentions adolescent dreams of working for the organization."

I took three things from that:

1) Maybe Ion Storm left that open for their own prequel.
2) UNATCO had been around for some time, at least before 2031 (which is good for the West Coast Quakes storyline)
3) The emergence of such UNATCO veterans can be shown. As well as one of my favorite characters...

SAM MOTHERF%&@IN CARTER

Jerion
9th Jan 2009, 21:33
I agree! I think perhaps we could see the construction of UNATCO HQ on Liberty Island. It would be fun to explore the MJ 12 facility as it's being dug out. :D

imported_van_HellSing
9th Jan 2009, 21:38
About the quakes - I had an idea where one of the DX3 endings would make you involved in some way with causing the quakes via underground nuke detonations orchestrated by one or other conspiracy group.

Nathan2000
9th Jan 2009, 22:01
It's a prequel, the birth of UNATCO is a requirement in this game. How do you think they'll do it?

I strongly doubt, that UNATCO have existed for a very long time before 2052. Even if so, they didn't operate in America. In the game, it is said, that USA became member of UNATCO charter in 2051 (or shortly before 2051). It can be deduced from three fragments:

U.S. President Philip Riley Mead lobbied the Congress to make the U.S. a UNATCO member nation: "Enough is enough!" he declared (...). Not only did the United States become a charter member of UNATCO, but UNATCO headquarters are now located on Liberty Island in the shadow of that shattered monument to FREEDOM.


Few can forget Mead's impassioned declaration that the shattered Statue of Liberty would not be repaired (...). It was shortly thereafter that Liberty Island was selected as the location of UNATCO headquarters...


Recently released evidence from last year's bombing of the Statue of Liberty supports growing rumors that link the incident with the French terrorist group "Silhouette".

The earliest mention of UNATCO in Continuity Bible is in 2040, when Paul joins it. JC is eleven then. There is no exact date of formation. UNATCO Handbook only states:


In recent years the swelling tide of international terrorism (...) has resulted in the decreasing effectiveness of local law enforcement. To resolve the problem, a neutral agency was required to enforce international law in an impartial manner around the world."

By the way, in an email to Gary Savage, Carter says, that he started working for UNATCO "a couple years back" - when he left army. Not sure, whether he means "a few" or "two years". Anyway, in some cases Wikipedia doesn't know better.

Jerion
10th Jan 2009, 00:51
Good points. Hmm...

Spiffmeister
10th Jan 2009, 17:31
UNATCO was formed after the terrorist strike on the statue of liberty, and AJ (DX1 AJ not DX3 AJ) says something about Silhouette claiming responsibility for the strike. The way it was said makes me think that UNATCO was only a pretty new organisation :p unless there's stuff in DX1 that says how old UNATCO is, I never really noticed lol.

Does DX3 really have to have so much to do with DX1 though? I'd prefer it if DX3 showed us how it was before the depression.

Just my 2 cents :D .

And yeah, what Nathan2000 said :p

AaronJ
10th Jan 2009, 18:44
About the quakes - I had an idea where one of the DX3 endings would make you involved in some way with causing the quakes via underground nuke detonations orchestrated by one or other conspiracy group.

I get where you're coming from, but the West Coast Quakes were just part of Deus Ex's inclusion of many, many conspiracy/disaster theories, in which the WCQ is the whole California breaking off thing.


USA became member of UNATCO charter in 2051 (or shortly before 2051)

Even if that's the case, Jensen will travel. Apparently he's going to Montreal (?), so it's likely that they'd have something start here in Canada. After all, we're all so peaceful. :D

Also,


By the way, in an email to Gary Savage, Carter says, that he started working for UNATCO "a couple years back" - when he left army. Not sure, whether he means "a few" or "two years". Anyway, in some cases Wikipedia doesn't know better.

I meant his entire story. The NSF, his family, his leg, his scars. The purpose of a prequel is to explain such elements.

Radius86
10th Jan 2009, 20:41
'The Merced Operation.'

Hey, if there's an event that has JC saying he's honoured about, I want to know about it. :)

We might just see the beginning of UNATCO. A skeletal look at Liberty Island restructuring for the anti terrorist coalition. Maybe at the end of the game even, a la Episode Three of Star Wars and the sight of the incomplete Death Star.

(Although I would hate it if Lucas inspires any of this particular game's development. If that's the case, we can possibly expect a love triangle between Shannon, Paul Denton and Jock :nut: )

Dead-Eye
11th Jan 2009, 00:57
In the into to the game Simon said "Formed by executive order after the terrorist strike on the statue. I have someone in place though, I'm more concerned about savage..."

So UNATCO must have been formed after the terrorist strike on the statue of liberty or at lest the Headquarters was. Seeing as Paul was a member for 10 years when the game starts that would mean that UNATCO has been around for at lest 10 years... although that makes little sense because why would Page and Simon even consider talking about something 10 years old.

Here is what I'm thinking. Paul joined the UN as a peace keeper. The UN probably had it's own peace keeping force and anti-terrorist group that employed augmented agents to carryout orders all over the globe. This group may have been called UNATCO or something else but was primarily under the control of the UN. When the terrorist strike on the statute happened the people became scared. The People where seeing the US government as week because of the declining economic situation and the lake of ability to fight off terrorism. MJ12 needed UNATCO out from under the control of the UN. The UN needed more funding. The US government needed something to convince the people there was hope for the future. So the US government "employed" UNATCO has a major organization to fight off terrorism giving huge amounts of funding to the UN. However in reality this was all to allow MJ12 complete control over UNATCO.

So Paul may have joined UNATCO but it was not the same UNATCO in 2054 as it was in 2040.

NK007
11th Jan 2009, 06:56
My vagina just got wet with the prospect of Sam Carter in the game. I remember looking for ways in DX to get into his booth just to be close to him. If there top 3 returns it should be: Gunther Hermann, Sam Carter and Anna Navarre, in that order. I would also be dissappointed if he didn't get major screen time.

About the birth of UNATCO: I could care less... it's the people that made the organization, even though I thought the usual armed staff looked pretty badass.

Nathan2000
11th Jan 2009, 13:25
MJ12 needed UNATCO out from under the control of the UN. The UN needed more funding. The US government needed something to convince the people there was hope for the future. So the US government "employed" UNATCO has a major organization to fight off terrorism giving huge amounts of funding to the UN. However in reality this was all to allow MJ12 complete control over UNATCO.

The only weak point in your theory is that UNATCO IS under UN control ("Jaime Reyes: A deployment of UNATCO troopers is the central component of all UN peacekeeping occupations") and UN is under MJ12 control ("Lebedev: The U.N. and UNATCO are just a couple of their tools"). And it's hard to believe that USA gives the UN extra funding while not even paying fees on time.

That sentence doesn't make sense. I usually ignore it.:rasp:

Sabretooth1
11th Jan 2009, 15:43
UNATCO's formation should be an interesting element to the plot. Wonder if we'll get to see a younger Joseph Manderley and of course, Sam Carter kicking ass. :D

Lilith
11th Jan 2009, 19:48
From what I understand.

UNATCO is basically the 'anti terror' group of the United Nations.

The UN angle isn't really played up unless you look for it. But remember the huge main theme for DX1 was a big dose of centralization. And whats the biggest centralized organization prior to 2000? (Real life). The European Union wasn't much and the UN although a joke had some promising crap going on.

Inject power into the UN and you would have a VERY strong organization. I honestly don't think they're going to do much of a UN angle in DX3, but as for the forming of UNATCO.

I think, this is guesswork here.
UNATCO were not formed after the attack on the statue, but rather this branch was. The USA signed into the charter fully and funded it with support from FEMA? / INTERPOL? / BOB PAGE? the Liberty Island HQ was formed. Thoughts?

Lilith
11th Jan 2009, 19:53
Garh!

I fail.

This is simple.

UNATCO was created from a staged event, been thinking about this from the wrong angle and I forgot to account that the statue was staged.

UNATCO therefor either as this branch or a whole organization would basically be a section of MJ12 legitimized as reaction to the statue.

To account for prior UNATCO existence under that alias, I guess. Umm keep before mentioned idea, and add that to justify funding and public presence?

So as appearing in DX3 anything from mention of the plot to actually seeing it happen?

Jerion
11th Jan 2009, 19:54
Hmm...the first branch of UNATCO in Shanghai then? :scratch:

Lilith
11th Jan 2009, 20:00
Hmm...the first branch of UNATCO in Shanghai then? :scratch:

This goes over my head to be honest.

As for formation?

Umm, I'd say because of the nature of the UN. A large group of NGO (No Government Organizations) operating under a charter.

Either, UNATCO joined that charter (unlikely I think).

Or it was formed via that charter, so the first branch would've been honestly no idea. Possibly on international soil?

AaronJ
11th Jan 2009, 22:15
I just don't want to be on wikipedia in a year and be reading about everyone's negative response to DX3 because it lacked all elements of a prequel.

jamhaw
11th Jan 2009, 22:36
I meant his entire story. The NSF, his family, his leg, his scars. The purpose of a prequel is to explain such elements.

That would be cool. But the character that I most want to see is a young Gunther, since he is my favourite character. I recently had an off the wall theory about Sam, see, I always found it weird the way in which he seemed (to me) to dislike JC's hero worship of him, and the way he said that part about having to grow up without your parents and which required more courage. This bascially gave me the crazy idea that Carter had something to do with the murder of JC's parents! That he helped out the MIB who killed that or had something to do with it.

Larington
12th Jan 2009, 00:36
When UNATCO was formed they probably pulled a bunch of operatives, soldiers and peacekeepers from other operations, so its not unreasonable to assume that the pieces of UNATCO had been put together some time before the conspirators caused the incident which ultimately resulted in UNATCO being set up on liberty island.

Joseph Manderley's Corpse
12th Jan 2009, 04:32
SAM MOTHERF%&@IN CARTER

PUHLEEEEEEZEEE.....:rolleyes:

Carter was a LIGHTWEIGHT. You should have seen me in my prime...100% BEEFCAKE.

Radius86
12th Jan 2009, 07:14
PUHLEEEEEEZEEE.....:rolleyes:

Carter was a LIGHTWEIGHT. You should have seen me in my prime...100% BEEFCAKE.

...and the husky voice of a trailer voice over guy. :rasp:

AaronJ
12th Jan 2009, 20:41
The story behind JC/Paul's parents is fuzzy as well. All we really know is that his mother was poor and his father had a brown suit. That must be dug into.

Tracer Tong
12th Jan 2009, 23:48
I truly love all of the ideas presented here. You are very determined and know your way through The Bible (the DX bible, of course) and the datacubes.

After all, UNATCO could have had a base of operations in China/Hong Kong...



Even though most of it doesn't correlate with what we know about DX3, I really want these ideas to be developed.

jamhaw
13th Jan 2009, 03:20
My thought on the subject is that UNATCO existed at this time but they were pretty insignifigant and poorly funded. I WANT TO SEE THOSE LITTLE WHITE HELMETS! :cool:

gamer0004
13th Jan 2009, 13:41
The story behind JC/Paul's parents is fuzzy as well. All we really know is that his mother was poor and his father had a brown suit. That must be dug into.

Which means that in DX3 the mother will be an alien with a lasergun and the father actually a Riot Cop wearing nothing but shirts and badass armour.

Dead-Eye
14th Jan 2009, 01:04
My vagina just got wet with the prospect of Sam Carter in the game.

There are no girls on the Internets... so you lie. :cool:

Back on topic: I do recall that MJ12 had the UN up their sleeves. However I think MJ12 only had the UN up their sleeves because they had UNATCO up their sleeves. UNATCO is the musical behind the UN without it the UN is just a powerless organization. As such when MJ12 got UNATCO the UN became a powerless figurehead at the mercy of MJ12's will. It helps to support the idea that Paul Denton would have worked for UNATCO for 10 years because it was under the control of the UN; something that Paul believed in.

However Paul started to realize that UNATCO was changing. More control by the US after the attack on the statue. Orders to kill targets instead of arresting. The UN seemed to be lacking in leadership. Paul must have realized something was wrong. In Hong Kong he must have found out the truth (His report on Walton Simmons Payoffs to UNATCO and Mandorly?) The UN's payoffs from the US government? "A superpower dose not pay rent!" The US was not paying rent it was paying bribes. At what time Paul defected I don't know but I think that the UNATCO Paul joined was vary different then the UNATCO JC joined.

AaronJ
14th Jan 2009, 01:09
My thought on the subject is that UNATCO existed at this time but they were pretty insignifigant and poorly funded. I WANT TO SEE THOSE LITTLE WHITE HELMETS! :cool:

OH MY GOD!!! I COMPLETELY FORGOT ABOUT THAT!!!!!



Which means that in DX3 the mother will be an alien with a lasergun and the father actually a Riot Cop wearing nothing but shirts and badass armour.

You forgot grenade belts and chaingun arms.

NK007
14th Jan 2009, 03:07
There are no girls on the Internets... so you lie. :cool:



I'm a 16 year old gurl. Plenty of those on the web, right :P?

This topic just reminds me how I hate the UN.

Dead-Eye
14th Jan 2009, 03:21
I'm a 16 year old gurl. Plenty of those on the web, right :P?

Nope there are no girls on the internets:

Dead-Eye
14th Jan 2009, 03:23
I'm a 16 year old gurl. Plenty of those on the web, right :P?

Nope there are no girls on the internets.

Just go to encyclopedia dramatica.
and look up "No girls on the internet".

Big Orange
16th Jan 2009, 00:39
UNATCO could be around in DX3, but they could be more of an internal security force that is policing the United Nations itself, clearing out the more incompetent, corrupt leaders in order to make the UN more mallable to the Illuminati's plan of a global government.

We could easily have Manderly and that quatermaster, but they would be in their original pre-UNATCO careers as much younger men.

iWait
16th Jan 2009, 01:16
Nope there are no girls on the internets.

There may be no gurls on teh interwebs, but there are girls on my computer.

That''s gotta count for something, right?

AaronJ
16th Jan 2009, 03:10
UNATCO could be around in DX3, but they could be more of an internal security force that is policing the United Nations itself, clearing out the more incompetent, corrupt leaders in order to make the UN more mallable to the Illuminati's plan of a global government.

Yes, the little white hats thing.


We could easily have Manderly and that quatermaster, but they would be in their original pre-UNATCO careers as much younger men.

DON'T FORGET!!

PASSWORD: KNIGHTKILLER

!!!!!!!!!

qJohnnyp
16th Jan 2009, 03:17
The bombing of the Statue of Liberty that was the pretext for the establishment of UNATCO's permanent base on Liberty Island was actually engineered by UNATCO with the complicity of the American president. Before this, UNATCO was the blanket term for counterterrorist units deployed alongside UN peacekeeping forces

http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Silhouette-(Deus-Ex)
though I don't know how much of a reliable source this is

Radius86
16th Jan 2009, 09:21
Manderley was quite obviously involved in an operation against the Templars. The password, and also some datacubes lying around his office state as much. Would love to meet him as a UNATCO grunt, doing that. :)

Nathan2000
16th Jan 2009, 10:24
http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Silhouette-(Deus-Ex)
though I don't know how much of a reliable source this is

Just a little less than Wikipedia. As much as you can get for copying Wikipedia and not updating often.

Description of MJ12 commandos gives me nightmares.

Dead-Eye
16th Jan 2009, 10:42
http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Silhouette-(Deus-Ex)

Fixed URL

Joseph Manderley's Corpse
16th Jan 2009, 11:18
Manderley was quite obviously involved in an operation against the Templars. The password, and also some datacubes lying around his office state as much. Would love to meet him as a UNATCO grunt, doing that. :)


Damn, Skippy. :D

Big Orange
16th Jan 2009, 11:26
Manderley was quite obviously involved in an operation against the Templars. The password, and also some datacubes lying around his office state as much. Would love to meet him as a UNATCO grunt, doing that. :)

Joseph Manderley was rumoured to be a member of Interpol, so would patently not be a officer of UNATCO, but most certainly his career was working for the Illuminati then MJ12 by the sound of things.