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jordan_a
4th Dec 2008, 22:53
Okay guys,

First of all, I urge you to read the entire CD-Action's interview (http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=83786) of M.Dugas, LD, and the following text, or you won't understand a thing.

-------------------------

So, I read this (http://archive.gamespy.com/articles/april02/dxbible/dx1/index2.shtm) first:

JC and Paul Denton -- A Detailed Biography

Work on nano-technology began in the early 2020's, and the Majestic 12 scientists assigned to the project (including Bob Page) had their work cut out for them. Mechanical augmentations were just starting to become widespread. Nanites would certainly be the next-generation technology available for augmentations -- but a number of hurdles had to be overcome. A self-replicating nanite that could interact with biological material had to be developed. The nanites also had to be able to interpret commands from the human mind, and to send visual and audio data to that mind in a form it could accept, layered on top of the subject's normal eyesight and hearing. All of these technologies would take years to develop.

What Majestic 12 needed was a test subject matching their selection criteria, and as young as possible.

How to find such a test subject? The Illuminati -- then in power, though no one knew it -- had done a great, secret census between 1940 and 1965, tracking everyone who received a small pox vaccine. From this they were able to build a database of the genetic codes of nearly all citizens of the United States and much of the rest of the world.

The conspirators' agents, posing as nurses and doctors, in pediatricians' offices and elementary schools across the nation, used the smallpox census data, to keep track of high potential candidates. The specialists in charge of the project were updated regularly on the progress of potential candidates. All the conspirators had to do was wait. Ma and Pa Denton -- two such potential candidates -- fell in love (perhaps even with some help from the conspirators!) and produced young Paul under the watchful, albeit covert eye of Majestic 12 operatives who played the parts of friends, family doctors, neighbors, school teachers and so on...

When Paul Denton was five, Majestic 12 scientists determined that his physique and genetic makeup were the most suitable for the nano-augmentation project. His immune system was excellent, yet he had no allergic reactions to non-biological foreign materials in his body. He also had no predispositions to myopia, obesity, or heart disease, and he was highly intelligent.

The scientists selected Paul as their test subject. Now they needed to find the precise spots in his brain where the nanites could intercept neural transmissions and convert them to commands. (These spots are different for every human being.) They also needed to implant nano-augmentations in Paul's body and test them.

Since Paul himself was considered too valuable to experiment on, Majestic 12 scientists created a number of clones of Paul. These clones were allowed to grow until their brains (especially the language centers) were fully developed. Then the scientists performed experiments on each of the child clones, trying to find the "sweet spots" in the brain that would allow the clones to control nanites and receive information.

For most of the clones, the experiments failed, and the clones were left as drooling vegetables -- or worse. Many of these failed experiments were destroyed. A few were allowed to live, so the scientists could perform further physiological and nano-technological studies on them as they grew older.

In one or two cases, though, the experiments were successful. These successes proved to the cabal leaders that direct mental control of nano-technology was possible.

Meanwhile, Paul started to grow up, blissfully unaware of the experiments being carried out in his name...

Paul's mother, who was unable to have any more children but wanted another, was approached by Majestic 12 operatives posing as fertility experts. She was told that she would be paid handsomely in exchange for participating in experimental surgery that would allow her to become pregnant. For Mrs. Denton, who'd been poor all her life, this was a dream come true -- she could have another child AND have enough money to raise her family in comfort. The "fertility experts" assured her that the surgery was minor and the risk was minimal.

She and her husband agreed to the experiment, unaware that their lives had been closely monitored by the cabal for many years. Although Paul's mother believed that the surgery would let her become pregnant again, in reality the Majestic 12 operatives implanted her with a cloned embryo of Paul.

Nine months later, J.C. Denton was born. Paul and J.C. were raised as brothers, under the careful and clandestine scrutiny of Majestic 12. Their parents never knew that the children were identical twins born eleven years apart.

At the same time, Majestic 12 continued to grow more clones and test nano-technology on them. Prior to J.C. Denton's birth, this was a cumbersome process. Each clone had to be grown in the womb of a mother, so the number of clones the scientists could produce was limited to the number of women employed by Majestic 12 who were willing to endure nine months of pregnancy in relative secrecy. This, as you can imagine, was not a large number. There was another disadvantage: each clone was gestating inside a different womb, each mother had a different metabolism, and as a result each clone was slightly different. The scientists had failed to reckon with the effects of pregnancy on their clones

Fortunately for the nano-augmentation program, technology marched onward. Shortly after J.C. was born, scientists invented an incubator that could bring a clone to term from the embryonic stage. The number of clones available for experiments grew dramatically, and the doctors could now perform their experiments with "control" clones. The pace of progress increased.

When Paul was 17 and J.C. was 6, it was becoming clear that Paul was a bit too unpredictable and independent for Majestic 12's tastes. Their leaders decided that J.C. should be raised in a more controlled environment, one in which the conspiracy's operatives would have direct involvement in his upbringing. To that end, they arranged to have his parents killed by a terrorist faction under Majestic 12 control. Paul was deemed expendable, and he was scheduled to die in the same attack.

To the surprise of the conspirators, Paul not only survived the attack that killed his parents, but also vowed to join UNATCO to avenge his parents' deaths. By this point UNATCO was nearly under the cabal's thumb, so Majestic 12 decided to let him live and work at the anti-terrorist agency, where they could keep a close eye on him. After all, Paul might be useful in the future, perhaps as a guinea pig for J.C.'s eventual nano-augmentation. Though they didn't know it at the time, letting Paul live would be their greatest mistake.

J.C., now a ward of the state, was sent to a special Swiss school (actually a front for Majestic 12) where his development could be more carefully controlled. The school tried to instill into J.C. an unquestioning loyalty to his superiors and a willingness to follow orders. Although the conditioning seemed to work, J.C. despised the school's rigid disciplinary style and developed a rebellious attitude that he kept hidden.

Paul, who was raised to adulthood by his parents, was flamboyant and happy-go-lucky, while his younger brother J.C. spent most of his childhood in Swiss schools and became serious, bitter and a little paranoid. (Score one for Nurture.)

Although Paul was busy with his duties at UNATCO, he still visited J.C. as often as he could. J.C. worshipped his older brother: Paul the UNATCO Agent, with his James Bond lifestyle and noble cause. J.C. decided to join UNATCO as soon as he was old enough. This fit in perfectly with Majestic 12's plans.

Shortly before J.C. signed up for UNATCO, Majestic 12 felt they were ready to try nano-augmentation on Paul Denton. UNATCO agents approached Paul, telling him he was a rare candidate for an experimental procedure that would make him stronger and faster -- an augmented human being without the clunky mechanical appendages. Paul had no idea that this offer was the culmination of nearly 25 years of behind-the-scenes experiments and manipulations on his life. He agreed.

A few years later, J.C. also became a UNATCO agent, and was offered the same procedure. He also accepted. In both cases, the augmentations were unqualified successes.

The underground shadow conspiracy known as Majestic 12 now had two nano-augmented agents in their ranks. A few more experiments, a little more testing, and the conspirators would be poised to create an army of unstoppable super-humans. Majestic 12 was closer to its goal of total world domination than it had ever been.

The Dentonian Timeline

* 2018: Paul Denton born
* 2023: Paul, age 5, selected as test subject, cloned
* 2028: Tests on clones show limited success; Paul's mother impregnated with J.C.
* 2029: J.C. Denton born; scientists perfect embryonic incubator; additional clones grown over the next 15-20 years
* 2034: Experiments begin on second generation of clones (~age 5)
* 2035: Paul and J.C.'s parents killed by Majestic 12; J.C. sent to Swiss school
* 2036: Paul goes to four-year university
* 2040: Paul, age 22, joins UNATCO
* 2044: Common emotional centers in brain discovered (+/- 2 years)
* 2046: Work on Ambrosia project begins (?)
* 2047: J.C. graduates from Swiss school
* 2049: Last kinks are worked out of nano-augmentation
* 2050: Paul is offered nano-augmentation; procedure is successful; work stops on
* clones; most clones destroyed
* 2051: J.C., age 22, joins UNATCO, trains, is offered nano-augmentation
* 2052: Nano-augmentation procedure is successful.

Then the CD Action interview.

Start to consider what matches, what we are sure of:

-Work on nano-technology began in the early 2020's [...] mechanical augmentations were just starting to become widespread

-There is a fierce competition between corporations to control the market of any kind of modification:
J-F Dugas: "We're discussing crucial, exceptional matters: market control"

-Sheldon Pacotti, lead DX1 writer, had some level of participation in the DX3 writing process

-In 2027, when Adam Jensen's company is under attack, Paul Denton is 9 and has been MJ12's test subject for four years.

-A year later, Paul being too valuable to be the only perfect subject, and every cloning attempt ending up a failure, Mrs Denton is impregnated with J.C. since her metabolism is stable.


My guess is:

The setting is when Bob Page and the Illuminati separate.

Adam Jensen works for the MJ12! It's the only way you can connect all these elements (the foetus -Paul-, Page, The Illuminati) and the next DX games to DX1!

I believe your task will be to defend MJ12's interests before, eventually, you discover their plan of world domination when Page seizes the organization.

The thriving Versalife may be an important element since it "was instrumental in fighting off the diseases and pandemics of the 2030s" and is Page's company in DX1.

The Illuminati, as weak as ever, might ask for your assistance

From there anything can happen! :D

I think the armed raid Jensen's company (MJ12 to my mind) undergoes concerns either the stealing of classified information for biomodification development or Paul's kidnaping.

But who perpetrated it?
-The Illuminati against themselves to accuse Page and cast him out ?
-Page, to become independent, control MJ12 then found Versalife?
-Another company?

GmanPro
5th Dec 2008, 05:42
Interesting. Seems probable, no doubt. :thumbsup:

IH-Denton
5th Dec 2008, 09:09
No, forget about Bob Page. Just remember DX1: Page was a lab assistant in Everett's affairs. Thats why in 2027th the first person of Illuminati is Everett (and he is not that agressive as Page was in 2053)

MJ12 - old government group, whos business is UFO. (and they exist really! :nut: )

So i dont think Adam has some connection to MJ12 at all.

GamerX51
5th Dec 2008, 12:04
Adam Jensen works for the MJ12! It's the only way you can connect all these elements (the foetus -Paul-, Page, The Illuminati) and the next DX games to DX1!

Well Jordan, your ideas are definitely well thought out, and I respect the tremendous amount of thought that obviously went into them, but I think you're trying way too hard to make DX3 "fit into" DX1.

You have to remember; DX3 is a completely different game set in a completely different world than the gritty, dysotopian, plague-infested hell hole we all know and love. The world in 2027 (judging from what little we know) is a much brighter, more economically sound place than it is in the DX1 timeline. The same conspiracies that might succeed in a DX1 world wouldn't really stand much of a chance of succeeding in a more stable, DX3 world.

Also, I don't think that MJ12 would want to risk exposing themselves to the public by carrying out a commando raid on a publicly traded corporation before they have *all* the necessary infrastructure in place to support their goals. A single corporation doesn't really constitute a stable power base, after all, and Bob Page will only be starting out as an entrepreneur at the time DX3 will happen, even if he does have a lot of money going into it. I don't think it would make much sense to have MJ12 be a major organization in DX3, or the Illuminati for that matter. I do think that some of their shell companies and shadow organizations could definitely play a role in DX3's plot, but The Illuminati and MJ12 would never directly touch global events "this early in the game" so to speak.

All in all, a very good theory.... but I just don't think it could work in the larger context of DX3's setting.

jordan_a
5th Dec 2008, 16:02
So you think they didn't remotely use the Pacotti's story?

AdamJensen
5th Dec 2008, 17:32
Very interesting! Though I believe they could tie in as much or as little as they want to DX1. If one really wants to any semi-related plot can be made to tie up much more deeply by adding more details.

Icarus AI
5th Dec 2008, 18:47
No, forget about Bob Page. Just remember DX1: Page was a lab assistant in Everett's affairs. Thats why in 2027th the first person of Illuminati is Everett (and he is not that agressive as Page was in 2053)

MJ12 - old government group, whos business is UFO. (and they exist really! :nut: )

So i dont think Adam has some connection to MJ12 at all.

Hmm I think Lucius DeBeers is the leader at that time.

i_is_a_moose
5th Dec 2008, 19:51
Very well thought out. Several of the points you discussed are ones I had pondered earlier. (especially the Adam-MJ12 relationship) The Swiss school was an interesting touch, I don't recall it from the game at present, so if it is an original idea, you get points, as it does explain JC's... rigid... characteristics.
The only flaws I saw is a contradiction between something Paul says on the dock on liberty isalnd. At his point he mentions how he wished he'd been there for JC at his UNATCO Academy graduation, since at Paul's the Denton-parent-units had been there, "Dad gave a toast..." (Paul)
The other contradiction I found was when Lebedev hints that JC and Paul were engineered, and their parents were employees.
Minimal conceptual flaws aside, I think they can easily be worked into your biography, which, on the whole, is a functional possibility.

Absentia
5th Dec 2008, 22:39
It's not his biography, it's the official DX Bible written by Sheldon Pacotti.

GmanPro
5th Dec 2008, 23:11
I have a feeling that MJ12 and the Illuminati are going to make some sort of appearance in DX3. But their presence should be subtle and their influence inconspicuous. Remember that most people are supposed to believe that they don't even exist.

I don't want to see any more factions openly walking the streets recruiting people like they are the Fighter's Guild or something. I want more DX1 style cloak-and-dagger conspiracies!

jc_lemon_lime
6th Dec 2008, 03:37
Okay guys,

My guess is:

The setting is when Bob Page and the Illuminati separate.

Adam Jensen works for the MJ12! It's the only way you can connect all these elements (the foetus -Paul-, Page, The Illuminati) and the next DX games to DX1!

I believe your task will be to defend MJ12's interests before, eventually, you discover their plan of world domination when Page seizes the organization.

The thriving Versalife may be an important element since it "was instrumental in fighting off the diseases and pandemics of the 2030s" and is Page's company in DX1.

The Illuminati, as weak as ever, might ask for your assistance

From there anything can happen! :D

I think the armed raid Jensen's company (MJ12 to my mind) undergoes concerns either the stealing of classified information for biomodification development or Paul's kidnaping.

But who perpetrated it?
-The Illuminati against themselves to accuse Page and cast him out ?
-Page, to become independent, control MJ12 then found Versalife?
-Another company?

i would be shocked if Bob Page and the iulluminati were not major players in the story.

Necros
6th Dec 2008, 11:25
I have a feeling that MJ12 and the Illuminati are going to make some sort of appearance in DX3.
Yep, Mary DeMarle hinted at this possibility. :)

APostLife
7th Dec 2008, 07:34
Finally some idea of DX3...

-|°
7th Dec 2008, 11:29
And since research in the field of nano-mods would have begun by 2027 and they'd have already selected Paul, who is genetically "compatible", then experiments around the Grey Death may begin, or even the epidemic itself (although it seems unlikely that DX1 people have suffered a 20 years old epidemic of this scale).
Haven't Page used the problem behind the implementation of nano-augs to make the virus ? If memory serves, Ford Schick tells something about the immunity to the virus depending on genetic coding for hemoglobins. Patients with an epsilon chain would resist Gray Death, and JC (and therefore Paul) were immune and some of the few human being who could accept nano-augmentations. And Dowd tells Page have altered some work on augmentation to engineer the Grey Death.
So, if Paul is already selected for the project and Page already plotting against the Illuminati, we might see the start of the engineering of Grey Death.

But I don't think that DX3 will mainly focus on DX1 events. The plot will be mainly influenced by the “Cyber-Renaissance” universe and all the themes it implies.

Nathan2000
7th Dec 2008, 19:38
And since research in the field of nano-mods would have begun by 2027 and they'd have already selected Paul, who is genetically "compatible", then experiments around the Grey Death may begin, or even the epidemic itself (although it seems unlikely that DX1 people have suffered a 20 years old epidemic of this scale).
The Gray Death epidemic started in 2051, a year before action of Deus Ex. But in 2030's there were pandemics of tuberculosis resistant to antibiotics and Spanish flu, which possibly killed billions of people. It was the time when VersaLife arose.

Haven't Page used the problem behind the implementation of nano-augs to make the virus ? If memory serves, Ford Schick tells something about the immunity to the virus depending on genetic coding for hemoglobins. Patients with an epsilon chain would resist Gray Death, and JC (and therefore Paul) were immune and some of the few human being who could accept nano-augmentations. And Dowd tells Page have altered some work on augmentation to engineer the Grey Death.
The Gray Death was an immune response of ordinary people's organisms against nanites. I believe, that the cells infected by them were recognized by immunoglobulins E (their role is to fight parasites) as enemies. Ford Schick said, that it was possible to prevent it by eliminating epsilon chains from immunoglobulins but that would leave people vulnerable to other threats. Everything after "I believe" is my speculation.

Antibodies in JC and Paul's body could tolerate nanites, but nobody knew why. That's why they were conducting tests. Scientists at Liberty Island even proposed to make thousands of clones, each one with different structure of immunoglobulins, and check with ones are right.

As we know from DXIW, 5% of the population is naturally immune to the Gray Death and can be biomodified. And I don't buy this talk that DXIW is not canon.

So, if Paul is already selected for the project and Page already plotting against the Illuminati, we might see the start of the engineering of Grey Death.
And one last note, Page ultimately took control over the Illuminati (I mean that he took over their assets and forced the leadership to hide) in 2035, but it could be a long process. 8 years? Well, maybe.

GamerX51
8th Dec 2008, 12:42
The Gray Death was an immune response of ordinary people's organisms against nanites. I believe, that the cells infected by them were recognized by immunoglobulins E (their role is to fight parasites) as enemies. Ford Schick said, that it was possible to prevent it by eliminating epsilon chains from immunoglobulins but that would leave people vulnerable to other threats. Everything after "I believe" is my speculation.

You're pretty much right on the money about the nature of the gray death. It works somewhat similarly to how the HIV virus causes AIDS; The nano virus itself isn't what kills you, it's your own immune system that eventually does you in. MJ12 wanted to find out why it was that JC and Paul's bodies could tolerate the nanites when most everybody else got sick and died. (That's why they kidnapped Ford Schick; he was an expert immunologist and had extensive knowledge of human physiology and cell biology.)

-|°
9th Dec 2008, 17:44
I believe, that the cells infected by them were recognized by immunoglobulins E (their role is to fight parasites) as enemies. Ford Schick said, that it was possible to prevent it by eliminating epsilon chains from immunoglobulins but that would leave people vulnerable to other threats. Everything after "I believe" is my speculation.
About this epsilon chain, I thought that was this allele which tolerates nanites, and the other were triggering this immune reaction which caused the sickness. I remember that Schick was telling something like "I knew that patients without the Epsilon chain would die".
Anyway, I'm not so sure about that either, adn that's not that important ^^ And Grey Death is unlikely to be one of the main points in DX3's plot. Actually, I think it'll be no more than something envisioned by MJ12 in some mail or datacube.

GmanPro
9th Dec 2008, 18:04
I think I know what can happen in DX3 also. AJ finds a giant Crate O' Cookies and lives happily ever after. :rasp:

lol, Bethesda needs to send a crate o cookies to EM now...

Jerion
9th Dec 2008, 18:06
After that cake it's only fair...