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Wildeheart
26th Nov 2008, 13:14
Okay guys, now the new Tomb Raider game is out and getting somewhat mixed reviews and given that it uses the same engine that's being used for Deus Ex 3 what pros/cons can you see to the engine being used in Deus Ex context?

For me there seem to be two major pros:

Tomb raider features some motorbike levels and given that Mass Effect made heavy (and controversial) use of the mako I'm willing to bet player controlled vehicles will make an appearance.

Also, the character animation is absolutely stunning and given DX 1/2's failings in this area I'm looking forward to seeing all that fluid movement used in a DX setting.

Some potential cons:

All the TR reviews seem to point to some pretty major camera issues, this might not be too much of a concern given that DX3 will be mostly first person but obviously cut scenes and the cover mechanism may suffer.

I've also read one review that quoted the engine having some frustrating environment collision issues, namely invisible objects causing ledge jumps etc to fail spectacularly and without warning.

spm1138
26th Nov 2008, 13:33
The collision thing could just be sloppy mapping.

I've seen the same thing in Unreal Engine maps for example.

I had a quick look. Seemed decent enough.

It crashed as soon as I swam to the nearest cliff though. I should have another go.

Wildeheart
26th Nov 2008, 13:38
The collision thing could just be sloppy mapping.

I've seen the same thing in Unreal Engine maps for example.




Well from the reviews I read it said a lot of the collision issues weren't always repeatable. In my experience that suggests the engine creating "phantom" collisions, surely if the issues were with the mapping then the invisible object would be rendered the same every time?

K^2
26th Nov 2008, 14:39
The non-repeatable collisions can have to do with the state of animation. It can also point to a sloppy player-character collision model. It can be an engine issue as well, though. A game like DX3 will need a very carefully done collision system.

Camera isn't really part of the engine. Guys at EM will make their 3rd person camera work the way they need it to. I'm still hoping I won't need to use it so much.

René
26th Nov 2008, 14:42
Bear in mind that above and beyond the DX3 programming team which is making enhancements, we also have a separate team dedicated to working with Crystal on updating the engine. And beyond the technology itself, a game's artistic direction can really make a big difference, and this is one area where DX3 is certainly different than Tomb Raider.

I don't think we're ready to start talking about specific changes or enhancements so I'll have to leave it at that!

gamer0004
26th Nov 2008, 15:52
For me there seem to be two major pros:

Tomb raider features some motorbike levels and given that Mass Effect made heavy (and controversial) use of the mako I'm willing to bet player controlled vehicles will make an appearance.


What do yo you mean, player controlled vehicles is a pro? :scratch:

spm1138
26th Nov 2008, 15:54
What do yo you mean, player controlled vehicles is a pro? :scratch:

I think he means that player controlled vehicles would be a pro.

It could work in context actually.

Rid**** had you sneaking around in various stages of powerlessness for most of the game but towards the end had this fantastic change of pace where you got ahold of a Heavy Guard and chewed a bloody hole straight through a hojillion guards.

It'd certainly add to the "loud" option.

Jerion
26th Nov 2008, 16:30
Bear in mind that above and beyond the DX3 programming team which is making enhancements, we also have a separate team dedicated to working with Crystal on updating the engine. And beyond the technology itself, a game's artistic direction can really make a big difference, and this is one area where DX3 is certainly different than Tomb Raider.

I don't think we're ready to start talking about specific changes or enhancements so I'll have to leave it at that!

+1 :thumbsup:

Unstoppable
26th Nov 2008, 16:43
Bear in mind that above and beyond the DX3 programming team which is making enhancements, we also have a separate team dedicated to working with Crystal on updating the engine. And beyond the technology itself, a game's artistic direction can really make a big difference, and this is one area where DX3 is certainly different than Tomb Raider.

I don't think we're ready to start talking about specific changes or enhancements so I'll have to leave it at that!

The real question is, holiday 2009, or summer 2010? ;)

K^2
26th Nov 2008, 21:33
I don't think we're ready to start talking about specific changes or enhancements so I'll have to leave it at that!
Any chance you guys can give me a heads up if the algorithm on compressed DRM files (CDRM) will change?

AaronJ
26th Nov 2008, 21:43
All the TR reviews seem to point to some pretty major camera issues, this might not be too much of a concern given that DX3 will be mostly first person but obviously cut scenes and the cover mechanism may suffer.

I've also read one review that quoted the engine having some frustrating environment collision issues, namely invisible objects causing ledge jumps etc to fail spectacularly and without warning.

The first is a result of CD trying to flaunt Laura's model.

The latter is the dreaded invisible ledge from many, many games before this.


Wait a second, are these crits for the Legend engine, or have they made the exact same mistakes with Underworld?

jordan_a
26th Nov 2008, 22:44
Engine thread?

APostLife
27th Nov 2008, 06:32
Any chance they will make this engine as efficient as possible?

3nails4you
27th Nov 2008, 07:50
The engine isn't too, too important. Over time the engine's specifics are changed in most possible ways. Materials can be replaced, coding can and will be changed on an enormous level, etc. Basically, using a newer engine just means making more resources available and cutting back on a lot of required game-making time and determines the efficiency of the game's interaction with the actual system. Using this game as any comparison to what DX3 will be like is shaky at best, as everything about it (camera, detail, basically most things mentioned) can be changed around and probably will be.

Wildeheart
27th Nov 2008, 11:08
The first is a result of CD trying to flaunt Laura's model.

The latter is the dreaded invisible ledge from many, many games before this.


Wait a second, are these crits for the Legend engine, or have they made the exact same mistakes with Underworld?

Seems they've made the same mistakes with Underworld. I'm not a TR fan but my interest in the new game has been piqued by the engine's use for DX3

Wildeheart
27th Nov 2008, 11:09
Engine thread?

Well this was more supposed to be a debate about what elements of the new TR game might be good for DX and what might cause a few issues.

Feel free to close and redirect to the Engine thread though, I'm not sure we're getting much new said here (although it's all very interesting to read just the same :) )

Wildeheart
27th Nov 2008, 11:11
Bear in mind that above and beyond the DX3 programming team which is making enhancements, we also have a separate team dedicated to working with Crystal on updating the engine. And beyond the technology itself, a game's artistic direction can really make a big difference, and this is one area where DX3 is certainly different than Tomb Raider.

I don't think we're ready to start talking about specific changes or enhancements so I'll have to leave it at that!

This is the kind of info that makes 2010 seem far too long away! ;)

Jerion
27th Nov 2008, 16:10
^^ You'd be surprised. When you've been working on the foundations of something long enough, you reach a point where it becomes spectacularly easy to make loads of progress. :)