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AaronJ
20th Nov 2008, 05:12
Right now, I'm thinking The Matrix+Gears of War+BLACK OPS COMMANDOS!!!!!!

But what do you think, forum?

Jerion
20th Nov 2008, 05:19
Taking off the Mod badge for a second,

I think It's looking at DX + A slightly brighter world + Something else we haven't seen yet. As far as the other gameplay features, well, I'm on the fence about those.

I don't feel this will be a terribly mainstream game, instead I think it will be a golden egg that the mainstream will partially discover.

AaronJ
20th Nov 2008, 05:25
Much like Fallout 3.

Jerion
20th Nov 2008, 05:28
As far as it's popularity among consumers, yes.

GmanPro
20th Nov 2008, 05:36
If this DX3 turns out to be as good as I hope it will be, then it will sell a lot of copies. At first maybe it won't sell as much as Fallout 3 did, but over time, as word starts to spread of it's greatness, then more and more people will buy it and it will become mainstream.

But more realistically, if DX3 is a good game (not quite DX1 but still better than IW), then I think it will still sell a respectable amount, about on par with Mass Effect or BioShock.

ZylonBane
20th Nov 2008, 05:43
I'm thinking: Very.

AaronJ
20th Nov 2008, 05:45
And what if it isn't a good game?

GmanPro
20th Nov 2008, 05:53
^^
Blasphemy! :eek:

K^2
20th Nov 2008, 06:21
I'm thinking: Very.
I would rather say too mainstream. I don't know how much exactly. Maybe not much at all. But I"m sure it will be too much anyway. Keep in mind that any attempt to sell more copies of the game will have such result. On the brighter note, I'm sure it will actually succeed at being mainstream, unlike IW that somehow tried and failed.

spm1138
20th Nov 2008, 07:22
I'll go with "Somewhat".

Nobody wants to make a triple A title and then not have it sell.

The sexy thing about Deus Ex was that it alluded all of these ideas but wrapped it up in cyborgs and X-Files silliness which made it accessible to any sci fi fan.
It didn't strike me on the first play through how they were getting at some quite heavy stuff with the endings for example. Put in quotes from the Bible, Milton and a ponder of philosophers and you'd have a Mamoru Oshii movie but they manage not to beat you over the head with it.

The gameplay was broad but not hugely/overly deep. You could try a bunch of stuff without having to really get good at anything.

The setting really made it accessible too. It's a world that is both internally consistent and roughly externally consistent (even if only with bad cinema). You don't have to get used to magic or teleporters. Plus ca change is in full effect. A gun is still a gun, a lock pick is still a lock pick (as time goes by).

I'm expecting the same kind of mix of accessibility and engaging gameplay and storyline from DX3.

The "mainstream" started gaming in the 70s or 80s and never stopped and although we're not too old for the likes of GoW2 I guess a lot of us would like some more grown up games mixed in with the stuff that's basically Space Invaders redux.

This is where games like DX3 come in.

imported_van_HellSing
20th Nov 2008, 14:32
A slightly brighter world

Something I forgot to mention in my recap of the NEOplus article: Shanghai is pretty much on the verge of a riot. (The underclasses are starting to get desperate. Your turn. ;) )

René
20th Nov 2008, 14:40
Right now, I'm thinking The Matrix+Gears of War+BLACK OPS COMMANDOS!!!!!!

But what do you think, forum?

No, it's more Blade Runner/Ghost in the Shell/Deus Ex 1.

imported_van_HellSing
20th Nov 2008, 14:44
No, it's more Blade Runner/Ghost in the Shell/Deus Ex 1.

That was the exact same comparison used in the NEOplus article as well, I thought that was their own comparison. Now I wonder... ;)

spm1138
20th Nov 2008, 14:48
Oh I dunno. Both are quite clear points of visual reference for the visual design we've seen.

GiTS was a big theme in DX the first too.

imported_van_HellSing
20th Nov 2008, 15:12
The difference is, DX1 was influenced mostly by the first GitS movie, while DX3 seems to heavily borrow from GitS: Innocence. The amber lighting, Barrett's gun-arm is pretty similar in style to Batou's, etc.

rhalibus
20th Nov 2008, 16:31
I'm really beginning to like the focused vision Eidos has for this game: an immersive GitS/Blade Runner visual style. I also see threads of Richard Morgan's novel "Altered Carbon" woven into some of the images...

Bluey71
20th Nov 2008, 17:04
While I agree with some of the comparisons here, I still think the automatic third person switch is a push too far.

Is it a push towards the 'mainstream'? Yea I think so, Eidos wants 'other groups of gamers' to feel at home in DX 3 so they give them a third person viewpoint in parts of the game. Its a strange decision imho especially when you think that most of this game is/supposed to be, in first person.

JakePeriphery
20th Nov 2008, 17:42
If DX3 turns out anything like Gears Of War you can count me out.

AaronJ
20th Nov 2008, 17:46
No, it's more Blade Runner/Ghost in the Shell/Deus Ex 1.

Obviously I'm a little skeptical because of the possible bias, but...

I've heard many of times that Deus Ex 1 was majorly inspired by both of those titles. So that makes it Deus Ex 1/Deus Ex 1. Sounds good to me.

BUT WAIT!

/BLACK OPS COMMANDOS!!!!!!

spm1138
20th Nov 2008, 17:54
The difference is, DX1 was influenced mostly by the first GitS movie, while DX3 seems to heavily borrow from GitS: Innocence. The amber lighting, Barrett's gun-arm is pretty similar in style to Batou's, etc.

Yup.

OFC GiTS + Blade Runner gets you somewhere near GITS2 anyway with the more baroque look things (including the mechanicals) have and the film noir feel of a lot of the interiors.

It's really the mechanical design that's totally different in GITS2. Apparently that was down to "Atsushi Takeuchi" again (Production I.G. guy, did the first movie too). I wonder where they got that bit of inspiration from? It was totally out of left field, especially the Locus Solus sequence.


If DX3 turns out anything like Gears Of War you can count me out.

I hear it has guns and shooting in.

GoW has guns and shooting in.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

gamer0004
20th Nov 2008, 18:15
No, it's more Blade Runner/Ghost in the Shell/Deus Ex 1.

Nah, they're just using GitS and Blade Runner as an excuse for all kinds of weird choices so they can at least keep telling everyone they're listening to the fans.

Many DX fans like STALKER, but does that mean that DX3 should take place in Chernobyl (no, I do not know how it sould be spelled and I'm too laxy to try google)? I think not.

LeatherJacket
20th Nov 2008, 19:13
No, it's more Blade Runner/Ghost in the Shell/Deus Ex 1.

If this is official and if you guys really pull it off it would be my dream come true. :thumbsup:

I have to say though while the concept art looks really really good, the screenshots - especially the one with Barett's back somehow doesn't suit the mood I expect. It looked like the standard plastic lighting. I'm hoping its because its still too early in the development.

Jerion
20th Nov 2008, 19:15
If this is official and if you guys really pull it off it would be my dream come true. :thumbsup:

I have to say though while the concept art looks really really good, the screenshots - especially the one with Barett's back somehow doesn't suit the mood I expect. It looked like the standard plastic lighting. I'm hoping its because its still too early in the development.

Oh, it's still very early in development. Considering the progress they've made so far I have high hopes for the finished product.



I hear it has guns and shooting in.

GoW has guns and shooting in.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:lol:

Decard
20th Nov 2008, 23:17
Hello there!
Today I found this (http://youtube.com/watch?v=ZpEoLH0cUSw) video somewhere in the archives of yt.

Yes. It's old, nerdy and modest, but it's kinda...human. This style allows you to feel more like home. You can clearly feel, that the game was developed by human beings, not some cold money-making machines from hollywood.

So, almost year ago, when I heard that loud, blank voice says 'for centuries, man has struggled to understand his true nature' etc it just doesn't feels right.

Current games are just...empty. Made for fat, retarded console children.

DX had that human element, that little spark of genius, which made this game almost perfect.

So, please EM... do not follow mainstream. Just stay close to your heart...



[Please, ignore my terrible english ;)]

El_Bel
20th Nov 2008, 23:28
Here comes another merge :p

spm1138
20th Nov 2008, 23:34
Hahaha. On the comments:

Luckily the game was better than this trailer.

Lazarus Ledd
21st Nov 2008, 00:03
I understand that Bethesda didn't sell 4,7 million copies of Fallout 3. 4,7 million copis were delivered to retail outlets. That doesn't represent amount of end users.


Now on-topic.
I think it foolish to compare Gears of War or any system seller with DX3. I think EM is not looking up to the title that will be 2 years old when DX3 ships out, and what DX is trying to pull off, not many titles can look up to it's knees of what DX3 will be: Xenus: Boling point, Xenus2: White Gold, Stalker 0&1.
I'm sure EM is aware that what's mainstream is today won't be after two years. They have inner managment, they can fight off the surrounding threats =D

-|°
21st Nov 2008, 18:23
Made for fat, retarded console children.
While reading this, I just imagined them wandering in DX Wan-Chai Market, and had a thought about Louis Pan (http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=UuN-N3ti3v4).
DX players must not like children. We'll have them killed, and we won't even blink an eye :D

GmanPro
21st Nov 2008, 18:35
Awesome. :lol:

No one cares about the children, Oblivion didn't even have kids lol.

Jerion
21st Nov 2008, 18:38
Children in DX were two-faced little punks. First they needed you for food, then they just wanted to use you to get rid of the bad man in the secret room behind some boxes, then they just gave up the pretense and were plain mean.

GmanPro
21st Nov 2008, 18:39
^^

And getting caught on secret missions to the ocean lab. :D

Although she was pretty much grown up at that point.

Jerion
21st Nov 2008, 18:42
Yea, she was grown up. Still though, you'd think Savage could give you a little more than a single aug upgrade for saving his daughter from certain death. Some rockets to take out page, maybe. :D

WhatsHisFace
22nd Nov 2008, 21:53
This game is going to be very aimed at the mainstream. They've got a cover system and regenerating health. It's like the "Quantum of Solace" game with a few RPG elements.

:mad2:

Of course, it's not going to perform as well as Fallout 3 and probably not even as well as the first Deus Ex. This franchise strayed too far from it's roots in the second game to keep the fans, and the third game is straying even further... but isn't macho enough to capture the Gears of War crowd.

APostLife
23rd Nov 2008, 07:48
This game is going to be very aimed at the mainstream. They've got a cover system and regenerating health. It's like the "Quantum of Solace" game with a few RPG elements.

:mad2:

Of course, it's not going to perform as well as Fallout 3 and probably not even as well as the first Deus Ex. This franchise strayed too far from it's roots in the second game to keep the fans, and the third game is straying even further... but isn't macho enough to capture the Gears of War crowd.

Then why EM be very listenative and not be stuck up crowd booers - I don't even think listenative is even a real word. Lol

GmanPro
23rd Nov 2008, 07:59
Actually the Quantum of Solace game doesn't look that terrible :o . Looks like it could be fun for a little while, maybe with some co-op. :thumbsup:

But I don't want DX3 to be anything like it, tho unfortunately, from what EM has stated, it probably will be. :mad: Third person cover comes to mind.

Romeo
23rd Nov 2008, 08:07
Much like Fallout 3.

As far as it's popularity among consumers, yes.
I think you're crossing your fingers a little too much there boys. People bought Fallout 3 because Bethesda is a very established brand, and only release maybe one game a year, if that. Which makes them very desirable when they do. Eidos on the other doesn't have the same "fan effect" as Bethesda, and Deus Ex doesn't have a far-reaching name like other games. Attracting new fans will be hard.

Romeo
23rd Nov 2008, 08:09
This game is going to be very aimed at the mainstream. They've got a cover system and regenerating health. It's like the "Quantum of Solace" game with a few RPG elements.

:mad2:

Of course, it's not going to perform as well as Fallout 3 and probably not even as well as the first Deus Ex. This franchise strayed too far from it's roots in the second game to keep the fans, and the third game is straying even further... but isn't macho enough to capture the Gears of War crowd.
Wow. Quantum of Solace huh? So, basically, what you're telling me is that Deus Ex to you is all about the fact you're health doesn't regenerate? Because even in Deus Ex there were still moments of third person, Einstein.

AaronJ
23rd Nov 2008, 16:05
Wow. Quantum of Solace huh? So, basically, what you're telling me is that Deus Ex to you is all about the fact you're health doesn't regenerate? Because even in Deus Ex there were still moments of third person, Einstein.

A smell the stench of mod bias.

spm1138
23rd Nov 2008, 18:35
A smell the stench of mod bias.

You said something dull and he called you on it. Don't try and wriggle out of it by crying mod bias.

GmanPro
23rd Nov 2008, 18:43
Wow. Quantum of Solace huh? So, basically, what you're telling me is that Deus Ex to you is all about the fact you're health doesn't regenerate? Because even in Deus Ex there were still moments of third person, Einstein.

Those moments were cut-scenes and dialogues. Not gameplay. Why can't they just keep it that way in DX3!? It wouldn't be hard at all to implement a Bethesda style option to switch to 3rd person if u really want to.

Jerion
23rd Nov 2008, 19:03
I'm glad you said that Romeo. :D


Those moments were cut-scenes and dialogues. Not gameplay. Why can't they just keep it that way in DX3!? It wouldn't be hard at all to implement a Bethesda style option to switch to 3rd person if u really want to.

Well, technically speaking, conversations were part of the gameplay. That said, switching to third person to see AJ do certain things isn't too difficult to wrap one's head around. I can imagine that in some situations using an aug from first person perspective would be difficult at best.


You said something dull and he called you on it. Don't try and wriggle out of it by crying mod bias.

:thumbsup:

gamer0004
23rd Nov 2008, 19:27
Well, technically speaking, conversations were part of the gameplay. That said, switching to third person to see AJ do certain things isn't too difficult to wrap one's head around. I can imagine that in some situations using an aug from first person perspective would be difficult at best.


That's the same as saying that conversations in action movies should always be accompanied by explosions because there are some in the chasing scenes too, right? :mad2:

Jerion
23rd Nov 2008, 19:28
That's the same as saying that conversations in action movies should always be accompanied by explosions because there are some in the chasing scenes too, right? :mad2:

No.

gamer0004
23rd Nov 2008, 19:30
Lol :rasp:

GmanPro
23rd Nov 2008, 20:05
I just don't want the game to throw me into 3rd person when I'm in the middle of a fire fight. That's all.

René
23rd Nov 2008, 20:18
^^ It won't. It's contextual and you have to enable it by pressing a key. It doesn't happen on its own.

Jerion
23rd Nov 2008, 20:31
The Light! It has been shed! :eek:

I have a screenshot of this. Now whenever somebody complains about 3rd person being forced I can toss them the link. :D

LatwPIAT
23rd Nov 2008, 21:03
Let's get back to how it looks. Deus Ex' visual style was that of bland concrete, brick walls, dull grey metal and other, dark, tones. DX3 on the other hand, seems to go another way with it's focus on coloured light and shiny surfaces. Maybe it's the engine technology, but nearly everything I can see from the screenies has a certain amout of shine and reflection to it. While this certainly is in line with cyberpunk visuals, and that office looks like it was taken straight out of Blade Runner (Whose officer was taken straight out of Metropolis...) it has still changed focus from darkness and blandness to light and shine. This isn't neccisarialy a bad thing, but it is non-the-less an art shift.

Really, if the art team wanted us hardcore, no-game-can-ever-beat-Deus Ex-ever, they-changed-it-now-it-sucks fans to like it, they should have played more around with darker, blander colours, more concrete, dark grey and unpolished sufraces with little reflections. More GitS and Blade Runner (Except the aforemented office and Deckard's apartment), less GitS2: Innocense and Star Trek-as-seen-through-sunglasses.

Oh, and because SMAC is awesome, I'll link to a video from another game that somehow captured the style of DX a year before DX was made:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwqN3Ur-wP0

Jerion
23rd Nov 2008, 21:21
It's really just that we haven't seen more of the darker seedier areas yet. :)

Story-wise, the more high-end "upscale" areas in DX 1 didn't look that upscale then because of the global Grey Death pandemic (I'm too lazy to go into that). However, a big limitation was the engine. :)

GmanPro
23rd Nov 2008, 21:25
^^ It won't. It's contextual and you have to enable it by pressing a key. It doesn't happen on its own.

Yay! :D

imported_van_HellSing
23rd Nov 2008, 21:37
I call shenanigans this time:

The game is FIRST person, but automatically switches to third person for some contextual actions.
You, as the player, do not have the ability to swap between views...it's a first person game but there are times where we want you to see Adam doing cool things.


MULTI KILL

When faced with multiple opponents, Jensen can unleash a combo of devastating martial arts moves, with the action switching to third person


It's contextual and you have to enable it by pressing a key. It doesn't happen on its own.

DOES NOT COMPUTE

Clarification needed.

Jerion
23rd Nov 2008, 21:39
Things have changed between now and then. See? The devs do listen to these forums. :)

GmanPro
23rd Nov 2008, 21:41
Things have changed between now and then. See? The devs do listen to these forums.

Double Yay!!! :D :D


http://www.tinyurl.com/yvrnfe

So appropriate!

AaronJ
24th Nov 2008, 03:31
You said something dull and he called you on it. Don't try and wriggle out of it by crying mod bias.

I won't tell you what is wrong with your post, I'll just advise you to "lurk moar".

LatwPIAT
24th Nov 2008, 07:43
I won't tell you what is wrong with your post, I'll just advise you to "lurk moar".

Wait, so he called you on being biased, so you called his Fallacy-fallacy, which must make your latest post a fallacy-fallacy-fallacy, and since you shouldn't use fallacy-fallacy-fallacies, I'll claim your statement is wrong and make my post a fallacy-fallacy-fallacy-fallacy.

GmanPro
24th Nov 2008, 07:52
Too many double-negatives!! :mad2: :mad2:

Jerion
24th Nov 2008, 07:53
Too many?


Or not enough? :D

GmanPro
24th Nov 2008, 07:56
touché :thumbsup:

AaronJ
24th Nov 2008, 21:18
Wait, so he called you on being biased, so you called his Fallacy-fallacy, which must make your latest post a fallacy-fallacy-fallacy, and since you shouldn't use fallacy-fallacy-fallacies, I'll claim your statement is wrong and make my post a fallacy-fallacy-fallacy-fallacy.

No, I meant that I wasn't even the one who made the Quantum of Solace comment.

Badges for all of you.

spm1138
24th Nov 2008, 21:32
Whoops.

I formally apologise to you AaronJ for slandering your good name. :whistle:

DXeXodus
25th Nov 2008, 04:46
I formally apologise to you AaronJ for slandering your good name. :whistle:

:lol:

Jerion
25th Nov 2008, 04:47
:lol:

My thoughts exactly. :D

K^2
25th Nov 2008, 08:16
DOES NOT COMPUTE

Clarification needed.
All very simple. First statement, made early on. Back then, there was no way to enable/disable 3rd person. There were certain "cool things" that enabled 3rd person automatically. PC Zone gives example with "Multikill". (That, by the way, is exactly what I didn't want to happen.)

The final quote is after some modifications to stealth have been made. It refers specifically to use of 3rd person in stealth. You have a choice of whether or not to use 3rd person stealth. That's what you need to hit a key to enable. "Contextual" 3rd person for "cool things" remains unchanged and happens regardless of whether you want it or not.

I'm sure the "cool things" really will be cool. The first time for sure. Maybe even the first 5 times. But I have a feeling that I'll want to smash the screen when it happens for one-hundred and fiftieth time in my 4th hour of gameplay, like it happens to so many other games that wanted the player to see "cool things".

Edit: After looking at the sources, I seem to be mistaken. Maybe they did change something there.

Yargo
25th Nov 2008, 16:54
All very simple. First statement, made early on. Back then, there was no way to enable/disable 3rd person. There were certain "cool things" that enabled 3rd person automatically. PC Zone gives example with "Multikill". (That, by the way, is exactly what I didn't want to happen.)

The final quote is after some modifications to stealth have been made. It refers specifically to use of 3rd person in stealth. You have a choice of whether or not to use 3rd person stealth. That's what you need to hit a key to enable. "Contextual" 3rd person for "cool things" remains unchanged and happens regardless of whether you want it or not.

I'm sure the "cool things" really will be cool. The first time for sure. Maybe even the first 5 times. But I have a feeling that I'll want to smash the screen when it happens for one-hundred and fiftieth time in my 4th hour of gameplay, like it happens to so many other games that wanted the player to see "cool things".

Edit: After looking at the sources, I seem to be mistaken. Maybe they did change something there.

Do you play fallout 3 because vats does the whole 3rd person switch-a-roo and everyone I've talked to loves it. I get friends over my shoulder saying, "V.A.T.S. him up" :D. Not saying I agree with the idea though.

Wildeheart
26th Nov 2008, 13:31
Do you play fallout 3 because vats does the whole 3rd person switch-a-roo and everyone I've talked to loves it. I get friends over my shoulder saying, "V.A.T.S. him up" :D. Not saying I agree with the idea though.


I loved V.A.T.S. but it was hideously over-used in F3, at first it was great but after a while you enter a room of bad guys and you just wanna get on with capping them. V.A.T.S. really slows things up in this respect, even a one hit kill takes like 10-20 seconds, that means clearing an area of 10 enemies can take nearly 3 minutes! That's an awful lot in a game that's pretty combat heavy.

Don't get me wrong, I love V.A.T.S. turn based nature but the slow mo animation is really starting to get to me after 60 hours of play and since things are going downhill rapidly as I progress to tougher areas I'm starting to wonder if I can keep up the will to finish the game (I'm nowhere through the main story as most of my play time so far has been on side-quests or exploration.)

imported_van_HellSing
26th Nov 2008, 13:35
Ah yes, ye olde Final Fantasy VIII syndrome...

GmanPro
26th Nov 2008, 15:52
I hardly ever use vats anymore. I have 10 luck and took the finesse perk. Every other shot is a critical and usually an instant kill for me. I don't even have any skill points into energy weapons, but I can still rape with a plasma rifle. Kinda dumb when you think about it, and DX3 is going to do the same thing unfortunately.

spm1138
26th Nov 2008, 15:56
Er... DX3 isn't going to have "critical hits".

Every shot will be a critical hit if you can aim.

If your guide dog isn't on the jazz today none of your shots will be critical hits.

Yargo
26th Nov 2008, 16:02
My biggest beef with the turn-based system is when I try to enter VATS I have to wait my turn so I sometimes end up mashing the tab key like WTF :mad2: . Another problem is the whole waiting to get shot in the face ordeal that happens if you don't kill the baddie in the first 2 shots :scratch: . But other than that I think fallou......fallo.....fallou.....great..... ERROR! :D

GmanPro
26th Nov 2008, 16:08
Er... DX3 isn't going to have "critical hits".

Every shot will be a critical hit if you can aim.

If your guide dog isn't on the jazz today none of your shots will be critical hits.

Not critical hits, I was referring to the weapon system. I won't need to put any skill points into a gun to be able to pwn with it.