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poontang
16th Nov 2008, 20:29
cuz I can't........

i have to wiggle the mouse in big circles for 30 seconds before the area runs smooth, even on the lowest setting.

then after I run a few steps, or try to aim my gun with target-lock, it semi-freezes again.

I have 2gb of ram with WinXP, and when i checked the taskmanager, the game wasn't even using all my memory.

So I know the memory is enough.


I think the developers coded this game like crap. Lowest settings at 640x480 and still can't run smoothly????? come on!!

MissCroft88
16th Nov 2008, 20:39
it happened the same to me and i have exactly the same video card that you do :scratch: i think is something wrong with the demo because sometimes runs smoothly that others :scratch:

Rachie
16th Nov 2008, 20:55
This needs to be in the Demo Sub-forum.

poontang
16th Nov 2008, 23:27
I have a 7600gt card, and 2gb of pc3200 ddr ram.
athlon 64 3800+

You know when a game is a piss poor port/ horrible coding when 640x480 with all bells & whistles turned off, runs exactly the same as 1024x768 with most eye candy turned on.

Check this.
I can run into a corner of the level, with nothing but a plain stone wall..... take my gun out, right click aim, and there will be a 2 second freeze on the first shot. After that, the gun shoots fine.

Every 10 feet I run, the game stutters and freezes for 5 seconds, like it's trying to load textures and chit. But it's not loading anything, because I don't see my hard drive activity light blinking. So why the freeze?

how do you explain that?

I say it's sh1tty coding by the developers

rg_001100
16th Nov 2008, 23:36
how do you explain that?

I say it's **** coding by the developers

Haha, no it's your PC that's bad, not the game. If it runs well on every other computer, and you think it runs poorly on yours, the problem's on your end.

Bampire
17th Nov 2008, 01:13
What RG said. It's your computer, which doesn't make the requirements. My computer doesn't meet the required hardware, but I was able to play it as well. It was very laggy, slow, and tedious, but I still played through it, despite the fact that I cannot get through it faster then what I can complete on any other games, in that time span.

You're not the only one, but before you decide to get the game for your PC, I prefer you either upgrade your tower, or buy it for a console.

poontang
17th Nov 2008, 01:23
but even a pc like mine should be able to run 640x480 with EVERYTHING turned off.

it's the ugliest you can get. no shadows, no reflections, no special effects. everything is all pixelly.

my rig should be able to run that smoothly. But it's as choppy as 1024x768.

i can run even Crysis and Farcry 2 at 1024x768 smoother than tomb raider at 640x480.

crap coding.

rg_001100
17th Nov 2008, 01:54
but even a pc like mine should be able to run 640x480 with EVERYTHING turned off.

it's the ugliest you can get. no shadows, no reflections, no special effects. everything is all pixelly.

my rig should be able to run that smoothly. But it's as choppy as 1024x768.

i can run even Crysis and Farcry 2 at 1024x768 smoother than tomb raider at 640x480.

crap coding.

It's not "crap coding" if the one-off machine has a compatability issue. Most people can actually run the game pretty well, no issues. If it were "crap coding", that wouldn't be the case.
There's something up with your PC that TR:U isn't working with, it's hardly "crap coding" if you're the only one experiencing issues. (Have you tried updating drivers, perhaps?)

Shadow125
17th Nov 2008, 01:56
What's your processor speed?

K^2
17th Nov 2008, 02:35
While poontang's arguments don't make any sense, the fact remains. Crystal Dynamics didn't optimize the engine as they should have. There are many graphical problems that shouldn't be there. There are plenty of visual effects that suck up GPU and CPU power that can be turned off without loss of gameplay. And overall, the engine really shouldn't take up as much power as it does. (Edit: To be clear, I'm not bashing CD. Just pointing out the fact that engine could have easily used extra polish. Hopefully, guys at CD realize that, and the current state is due to economic constraints.)

That said, the fact that change of resolution doesn't change frame rate has NOTHING to do with engine quality. It merely tells you that the game is GPU intensive, and the bottle neck forms in weaker GPU and not in the fill rate.

rg_001100
17th Nov 2008, 02:36
While poontang's arguments don't make any sense, the fact remains. Crystal Dynamics didn't optimize the engine as they should have. There are many graphical problems that shouldn't be there. There are plenty of visual effects that suck up GPU and CPU power that can be turned off without loss of gameplay. And overall, the engine really shouldn't take up as much power as it does.


What sort of optimization usually occurs between demo and final version? I think I've found that final games will run better on my PC than demos will.

K^2
17th Nov 2008, 02:40
What sort of optimization usually occurs between demo and final version? I think I've found that final games will run better on my PC than demos will.
Depends. From none to a substantial. One of the things that Demos do is getting a whole bunch of people with very different setups run the engine. If devs find that a particular setup X runs worse than it should for no apparent reason, it will let them run some checks. I've seen before cases where it makes for great improvement. Even making the game run on some setups where it didn't launch at all.

But these really have to do with hardware problems. The more significant changes are in the design of the engine itself, and these things don't change from Demo to final.

poontang
17th Nov 2008, 02:59
that is right.

the engine can use a lot of polish.

you would slap your forehead if you saw how choppy the game is when standing in an empty hallway made of stone, turn to the left/right, and have the game freeze for 5-10 seconds.

there's nothing fancy about an empty stone hallway.

K^2
17th Nov 2008, 06:29
poontang, the game almost never renders just what you see. What's behind the walls? In all likelihood, all of that stuff is being rendered too. A good optimization routine will throw most of that stuff out, but even there its' more than just what you see.

And the freeze might have been due to a transition zone. I ran into one of these myself while having some other stuff run in the background. There appear to be 5 different zones in the demo. Each one is loaded seamlessly as you move from zone to zone. The stone hallway you mention sounds like the transition to the last of the zones, which is also the biggest at 46MB. If your system is struggling with running the game, the transition zone will cause a freeze for sure.

GoranAgar
17th Nov 2008, 07:13
how do you explain that?
Post your DXDiag results.

tiger
17th Nov 2008, 08:50
K^2, it sounds like you might be the perfect person for this question.

Is there anyway that TRU might be using relatively very slow virtual-memory for these transition zones, that it should be dynamically generated and smoothly swapped around within RAM, only? (And then there's RAM segmentation problems for a much larger zone like that one?)

(And yes, having certain very active anti-spy ware (up to 30 percent CPU) will definitely mean having sudden freezes.) ;)

K^2
17th Nov 2008, 10:09
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm not aware of a way to request that certain data is kept in physical or virtual memory. OS tend to manage these things by themselves. As such, if you have enough RAM for the game, all of it should be in physical RAM unless another process takes over.

As for RAM segmentation, it shouldn't be an issue as long as the levels are loaded object-by-object, rather than as a single archive at once. Most of the memory is used by textures, and I simply don't see a reason not to load them one by one.

Actually, I can check that with the TexMod a bit later.

Jurjen
17th Nov 2008, 11:54
Frequest stuttering (not low framerate, but just stalling for a while) is a problem with Nvidia drivers on GF 6 and GF 7 series, and related to shader usage. Recent Nvidia drivers are better at this as older ones, so make sure to update your drivers.

New Nvidia drivers might make things even better, though it depends on how much time Nvidia wants to spend on drivers for their hardware from a few generations ago...

There is actually a note about this in the ReadMe.

GoranAgar
17th Nov 2008, 12:29
There is actually a note about this in the ReadMe.
Exactly. It states:

"Low end nVidia hardware users may notice a slight stutter when first entering a location. This is a known issue with the current release of drivers (178.13). This should be addressed in an upcoming driver release."

I'll fix that thread title for you.

tiger
18th Nov 2008, 00:46
Yes sir, K^2! :thumbsup:
Players simply have to learn to dedicate their CPU/GPU processors and their RAM/VM storage to the current game, by reducing any and all other applications on their systems.

I have not played the tru demo, so I have to ask.
(Sorry no Shader3, here, so I can kind of feel for SunBeam's situation.) :o

But, is there a major event with lots of NPC and creatures being started, after that plain wall? (So I wonder what kind of devious trick could be used to "logically pause" the player, until all of that stuff is loaded? Perhaps, a rather long-winded CG movie of Lara debating something about this wall looks familar or something just spooked her or whatever?) :cool:

And isn't that little TexMod texture pre-processor, the coolest dynamic-modding utility, ever! :thumbsup:

emdeec
18th Nov 2008, 03:31
You're not alone.. I have the exact same problem.. and like somebody else said in another thread. The game is as choppy if I try 640X480 with all eye candy off.. as it is at 1360X768 (my native desktop res) with everything on.

I have two XFX 7600GT Fatalitys in SLI.

I'm running a Pentium D935 (3.2 GHz X 2 - 800 FSB) with..

3 Gb (2 X 512Mb, 2 X 1Gb) Crucial Ballistix 666MHz DDR in dual channel.

NOTHING is overclocked (the Fatality's are factory OC'ed).

THIS game is choppy as heck at ANY resolution for me. I am using the latest non-beta GeForce drivers (178.24).

TR Legends and Anniversary BOTH run fine for me at 1360 X 768 with ALL eye-candy turned on. Wanted to complete my "collection".. but won't be buying this game.. even Crysis & Far Cry 2 runs better for me than this.

Eidos & CD, and all the fanboyz can blame Nvidia or MS all they want.. the indisputable fact is.. NO other current-gen game I own (out of about 100) runs like this on my PC. Case closed.

OrionMDO
18th Nov 2008, 06:34
I run full resolution all specs maxed out to a DLP 65 inch TV through the HDMI port.
Smooth as silk like Lara. Same with Doom 3.
M15X w/xp pro
My processor is only running 2.1 ghz
2 gig ram
nvidia gtx 8700m is the key though. Get a better GPU.:cool:

emdeec
18th Nov 2008, 09:34
"Get a better GPU."..

No.. I won't do that.. not for this ONE game.. but you're right.. the demo runs fine on my friend's computer with two 8800GTs in SLI.

Times are tough.. in case you haven't heard. I have better things to spend my money on right now.. I'm 51 years old.. and have responsibilities. When I built this PC last year.. it was to carry me through at LEAST the next couple of years of service.

It's just plain stupid that CD couldn't optimize this to run on the OLDER cards they clearly state in their requirements.. the game supports.

As I said earlier.. I can play ALL of the other games out recently and clearly.. most other games due out into next year.. just fine with my two SLI cards (Fallout 3, BOTH Stalker's, the LAST two CODs, X3 - Terran Conflict to name a few more.. oh.. and did I mention Spore?).

I'm NOT gonna' shell out another $300.. nor even $200.. just to play the latest TR game.. period. I can live without anymore of Laura (real women are better).

This is something that COULD be fixed in the current game by the developers if they so chose. Yes.. it's mentioned and underplayed in the ReadMe.. but come retail time (tomorrow?), if they choose to release it as is.. they REALLY should mention that it is flat out unplayable on GF series 6 & 7s.. right out of the box.. as is.

GoranAgar
18th Nov 2008, 09:43
Right. Never ever in game history has a new graphic card driver improved game play.

Why do so many people think that unlike game programmers, driver programmers are flawless? :whistle:

Right because the other 100 games you play run without any problems. And those 100 forums for those 100 games are completly free of people with technical problems. :)

Wait for the next driver, try the demo again, if you are still interested and then please let us know if it works. :)

pleomax
18th Nov 2008, 10:36
I'm running an 8800gts 640mb overclocked on driver 180.43 beta, lowest recorded framerate was 39 doing the whole demo at 1680*1050 maxed with 4AA.

Sometimes the demo will freeze for a 'split second' , it's annoying because i think it's going to crash.

It does it with my card running at stock as well.

But i have other games that have problems.

emdeec
18th Nov 2008, 10:39
I'll do just that. Thank you.

But in the meantime may I suggest you "brace yourselves" for the massive influx of irate gamers (beginning tomorrow) who HAVE GeForce 6000 & 7000 series of cards and will buy the game.. take it home.. and run into this "documented" & confirmed problem? Many of whom will be 1/4 my age and even less "cordial" about it than I?

Good luck.. you guys will need it.

BTW though.. many thanks for someone who actually represents Eidos taking the time to address this issue.

GoranAgar
18th Nov 2008, 10:48
But in the meantime may I suggest you "brace yourselves" for the massive influx of irate gamers (beginning tomorrow) who HAVE GeForce 6000 & 7000 series of cards and will buy the game.. take it home.. and run into this "documented" & confirmed problem? Many of whom will be 1/4 my age and even less "cordial" about it than I?

I know. I know. ;)

Curious101
18th Nov 2008, 15:56
Wait, wait wait wait.

I thought the problem with these cards was mild and took place generally at the beginning of the level. If this is going to be a whole big thing where it doesn't work well at all, tell me now so I can cancel my pre-order.

There is nothing more enraging than buying a game that the System Requirements indicate you can run fine and finding that to be misleading, unless it's that you're stuck with a useless piece of software because the manufacturer couldn't be bothered to accurately report what is required.

So is this a major downfall for the nVidia 7000 series? I have a 7300LE, so I'd really like to know.

Urik
18th Nov 2008, 17:01
cuz I can't........

i have to wiggle the mouse in big circles for 30 seconds before the area runs smooth, even on the lowest setting.

then after I run a few steps, or try to aim my gun with target-lock, it semi-freezes again.

I have 2gb of ram with WinXP, and when i checked the taskmanager, the game wasn't even using all my memory.

So I know the memory is enough.


I think the developers coded this game like crap. Lowest settings at 640x480 and still can't run smoothly????? come on!!

I have: P-4 3.00 GHz, 2,5Gb DDR I, ASUS 7600GS silent (AGP).
Motherboard ASUS P4P800, monitor 1280x1024, Win XP sp3 32bit.
I tried different video settings,
from 1280x1024 to 640x480 60hz without any filtering etc.
I press "play demo", and it stucks on load,
even in 640x480 that circle is spinning with breaks and
text appearing not smoothly.
I tried to wait for a few minutes but it just keeps loading,
however, CPU load is not big, but pagefile goes up to 700mb.
the videocard driver I have is the original one, that was with the card, since 2007(or maybe2006),
haven't searched is there a new out yet.

Before I played TR Anniversary fine on top settings with no hangs or framerate slowings.

So, sadly I'll not buy Underworld then:(

Jurjen
18th Nov 2008, 17:22
If you are having problems with the game hanging at the loading screen, please just update your Nvidia drivers. This is simply a case of the old Nvidia drivers really not being very good at handling the large amounts of shaders the game is using.

The newer drivers are still not very good at it though, which leads to the stuttering, but it's a fair bit better.

emdeec
18th Nov 2008, 19:55
I don't want anybody to be dissuaded from buying the game today so let's just say "unplayable" is a relative term. In my case.. I have ALL of the stuttering problems described by the OP at the top of this thread.

For me.. the gameplay pauses about every 5 seconds.. for a half a second.. everywhere. It doesn't matter if it's the beginning, middle or end of a scene. As long as Laura is moving.. it noticeably "stutters". If Laura is standing still.. and I rotate the camera around her, or look around.. it stutters as well. The ONLY time it doesn't stutter for me is when the camera is static and she's not moving (at which point I probably couldn't tell anyway).

Someone said here or in another thread that they had the same problems and played the whole "game" (demo?) that way and didn't mind, but in my eyes.. as it is.. it's a "game breaker" at the moment. I wouldn't play (and in fact I didn't in the demo) more than 5 minutes of the retail release in this fashion.

It seems to affect ONLY GeForce 6 & 7000 series cards. I am using the even newer non-beta release of drivers than the OP on Windows XP home w/SP3 (178.24). Others have indicated that the new "beta" drivers released & semi-optimized for Far Cry 2 don't do any help at all either.. YMMV.

BTW.. the GeForce 7600GT supports pixel shaders 3.0 so that shouldn't be a problem.

I personally.. am simply going to do as GoranAgar suggested. Wait for the next stable driver release from nVidia.. try the demo again.. and take it from there.

Urik
19th Nov 2008, 16:52
Ok, I've installed latest nvidia driver for my 7600GS,
and now demo loads, however, still framerate hangs quite much.
Yeah, this game needs at least some 512mb nvidia's 8-series card, imho.

P.S. after driver install, I had few graphic crashes (one in Underworld demo menu,
one in Windows), it was like noise or pixels mosaic, like that, I did cold reset reboot.
Now it seems to be alright, but I'm downloading november's DirectX right now,
gonna reinstall it for sure.

Loran_69
20th Nov 2008, 11:36
Hi Guys,

The exact same problem here with the Demo. My GC Quadro FX 2500M as exact similar hardware than 7900GTX on my Dell M90 Laptop (Intel Core 2 T7400 2.16Ghz, 2Gb RAM and 512 MB video ram).

I'm always able to play other games full options but resolution (crysis at 1280x800, TRA at 1680x1050, Las Splinter Cell at 1920x1200, Assassin's Creed 1440x900, etc.) :whistle:

TRU run fine (> 30 fps) after I made a slow 360 degree around Lara to pre-load environment. As soon as something must be loaded (even a sound) I have this 1-2 sec freeze. A funny remark: even during this freeze time, sometimes some animation still smoothly running, like physics on Lara Hairs, some smoke, etc.)

My drivers are the last official one for Dell/Nvidia for my CG: 6.14.11.5683 from Nov 2007 (pretty old, thx Nvidia/Dell!). I liked enough Lara to finish the Demo twice like this :nut:

For me, it's look like a conflict with the Hard drive and CG. Loading a level or savedgame take around 5 full minutes. I installed the game on a fresh defrag disk and no file are fragmented at all. :mad2:

So no one can say to update my GC. It should be fine!

It's up to CD to fix this issue.

Have a nice day! :)

Loran_69

Meatbag05
20th Nov 2008, 12:58
Same problems here, but i did some testing, in an effort to draw attention to someone who might know what to do...

First of all, i am running the full game, and the problems are similar:
- loading a level takes 5 minutes
- starting cutscene is choppy like ****
- after moving the camera somewhat, the game is smooth, until i do something besides standing still

Hardware used
7600 go (mobile card),
XP-sp2,
2gb ram
and drivers are updated to latest version, downloaded from laptopvideo2go.com

I have tried other driver versions, similar problems with each.
I have also tried installing on an old pc with grapics card: 6800LE. It displays the exact same problems. (with newest drivers)
oh yeah, november release of directX doesn't make a difference


Something I noticed while 'playing'
It would seem that when i walk through the starting hallway, and walk back afterwards, the stuttering is gone! Seems the problem is isolated to areas not already visited in a single session.

My guess would be the geometry/texture/animation streaming-in system or whatever, is trying to access functionality of the graphics card that is not available, or localized elsewhere on the series 6/7 of nvidia cards.
This of course should be taken care of by the video drivers, so there is some blame to give there.
On the other hand, the game is trying to use resources that are unavailable by some systems, so to be fair, some sort of patch, or at least an official notice of the limitations of the game, should be announced sometime soon.


Well, that's my story so far. I wouldn't recommend anyone else to buy the game without having tried the demo...