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Lo
6th Nov 2008, 05:52
Simple enough question ;)

No matter what your choice, feel free to elaborate as to your chosen category.

Maybe you are torn between both the older and newer games. Perhaps you prefer the gameplay of the old-skool TRs but prefer the graphics of the next generation games.

My personal favourites will always be the old-skool games (shock, horror :lol: ).

Here are my reasons:

1) Much more scope for adventure - the environments are far more expansive.

2) The controls [keyboard] are far easier and more compact and user-friendly.

3) Unlimited saves [PC] as opposed to the tedious checkpoints of newer games.

4) The locations seem infinitely brighter - not as dull as the palette used in next-gens (Think Venice!)

It would be interesting to see just how many of us Raiders prefer the older games. You do not have to give reasons but it may help if you do in order that we can all get a better understanding of what fans really want out of a modern Tomb Raider game.

Do you think too much emphasis has been put upon fancy graphics as opposed to quality game play?

Over to you, Raiders! :)

rg_001100
6th Nov 2008, 06:04
2) The controls [keyboard] are far easier and more compact and user-friendly.


I would happily take you up on this point :) The CD TR:L/TR:A controls aren't harder than the Core controls... it's easier. :p (some people who are not great gamers do struggle initially with CD's controlling system, while being used to Core's game controlling style... I lay this on the individuals rather than the game)

But I voted "indifferent".

In brief:

The Core Design games definitely have their great moments, as evident in so many people around here loving + supporting the classic Tomb Raider games. They also have their downsides... Core isn't making TR games anymore for a reason.

The Crystal Dynamics games also have their positives and negatives, although I would admit that the positives are harder for Core-fans to see, and CD games have not been targeted only at "Core-fans".

EDIT:
I would add, though, that CD and Core games are both different takes on the same concept of a game; they will appeal to different people based on the subtle differences between the two styles.

Bampire
6th Nov 2008, 08:11
I chose "Indifferent".

I love both. The graphics for both generations are fantastic, for their age. How free you can be in the classics, compared to the newer TR games, but that's about to change, especially with TR:U.

I'll just stop here and say I concur with RG, on this one.

naraku
6th Nov 2008, 08:26
I voted indifferent too. I kinda wish they could merge both into an awesome game, yet the end result would most likely be a TRA type game.

Devil666
6th Nov 2008, 08:47
I voted indifferent too ... Love both ... There shouldn't be any Core/Crystal separations between fans ... We're in 21st century so it's a normal evolution for Lara too :)
She's cool both ways :)
The games are great :) All of them :)

RCO611
6th Nov 2008, 09:49
The New-Gen looks younger than the old-gen. How about you, whats your opinion?

_Love2Raid_
6th Nov 2008, 15:00
Another indifferent person right here! :nut:

I love the oldies, because the levels are longer and you can explore so much so it takes longer to finish the game. The traps are great and the animals jump right at you when you least expect it. That scared the crap out of me many times :o For those reasons and many others that have already been described by Lo, I still play them :D
Allthough there are some negative points that need to be mentioned. The least important is the bad graphics, I don't really care about bad graphics if the rest of the game is great, which all of them were (exept Chronicles, didn't like that one much). I think the controls are quite hard in my opinion, the movements are 'stiff' (compared to the new games) and when Lara stands with her back against a wall, you can't see where the heck you are heading (which can also scare the crap out of you sometimes :lol: ).

I love the new games (TRL, TRA and TRU-demo) as well. I think the controls aren't difficult at all, I love the camera which makes it a lot easier to see where you are going. And of course, everything looks beautiful and detailed. Every room you enter makes you stop for a moment to stare at everything in amazement. ;)
I must say that TRA and especially TRL were very easy compared to the oldies and quite lineair. Thank god they did something about that in TRU. Checkpoints can be frustrating sometimes, when there is no other way then to let Lara die on purpose to get back.:mad2: The traps are way to easy to go through, the animals and creatures are being announced by the music half an hour before they even show up...........And I really don't know what to think of the new gadgets like the PDS and the binoculars. I hardly ever use them :o

So in conclusion, I like them both! :p

JustMe
6th Nov 2008, 15:03
another indifferent person here :nut:

Jurre
6th Nov 2008, 15:04
There shouldn't be any Core/Crystal separations between fans ... We're in 21st century so it's a normal evolution for Lara too :)
That is an outstanding statement :thumbsup:

Raindrops Melody
6th Nov 2008, 15:12
I like the old ones better. It's a lot more fun I think. The music is also a lot better. I miss it a lot.

_Tomb_Raider_
6th Nov 2008, 15:16
next Gen Rock!!!!

Werner Von Croy
6th Nov 2008, 15:50
Old Skool :D

iDrifter
6th Nov 2008, 15:58
Indifferent here. I like how Lara has matured with every series.

rg_001100
6th Nov 2008, 17:32
There shouldn't be any Core/Crystal separations between fans ... We're in 21st century so it's a normal evolution for Lara too :)

There will inevitably be fans forced to "split" from CD's games due to lack of evolving themselves, though.
I am indifferent as to the games; but I do favour Crystal Dynamics over Core Design. This evolution of Tomb Raider/Lara Croft has been demonstrated as necessary, and CD are 'evolving' TR in brilliant ways. :)

caiounder
6th Nov 2008, 18:22
I chose "Indifferent".

I love both. The graphics for both generations are fantastic, for their age. How free you can be in the classics, compared to the newer TR games, but that's about to change, especially with TR:U.

I'll just stop here and say I concur with RG, on this one.

me too :thumbsup:

Rexie
6th Nov 2008, 18:23
I'm indifferent - both have their good and bad points.

GoLarago
6th Nov 2008, 20:23
I love the old ones. No worries about politcal correctness. Slaughtering endangered animals just because we can. I think If I remember right I only had to kill 3 people total in TR1. People are always more important than animals, (tho I wouldn't want to live in one without them.). Levels were long and many.

The new ones have great eye candy, but that does not a great game make. These new gen games (and I'm not just talking TR) are short. It just takes too long to do the graphics anymore. They are darker . I'm not to sure I like the "Max Paine" personality she has aquired. She has become the terminator. She kills anything human. And there are lots of them to kill. I really liked the lite harted tomb robber mentality of the old. I do enjoy the new controls tho I miss the "delete key" flip turn. I think Underworld will be the tipping point for me weither I stay indifferent or become enthuiastic about the new Lara. I am however looking forward to its release . Played demo and loved it.

Lo
6th Nov 2008, 21:52
I love the old ones. No worries about politcal correctness. Slaughtering endangered animals just because we can. I think If I remember right I only had to kill 3 people total in TR1. People are always more important than animals, (tho I wouldn't want to live in one without them.). Levels were long and many.

The new ones have great eye candy, but that does not a great game make. These new gen games (and I'm not just talking TR) are short. It just takes too long to do the graphics anymore. They are darker . I'm not to sure I like the "Max Paine" personality she has aquired. She has become the terminator. She kills anything human. And there are lots of them to kill. I really liked the lite harted tomb robber mentality of the old. I do enjoy the new controls tho I miss the "delete key" flip turn. I think Underworld will be the tipping point for me weither I stay indifferent or become enthuiastic about the new Lara. I am however looking forward to its release . Played demo and loved it.

Well said.

I'm kinda veering away from the next-gens however and have failed to pick up Anniversary since I encountered a glitch after killing the T-Rex (which was a mean feat and the area was all so contained and with nowhere to hide :whistle: ).

Thank goodness for custom levels. That's what I prefer to play now and I am discovering new and cool levels all the time so don't feel drawn to the newer games all the time there are unlimited custom levels to discover :D [/COLOR]

RCO611
6th Nov 2008, 21:57
Indifferent for me. I cant decide, there both okay to me.

GoLarago
6th Nov 2008, 23:06
Well said.

I'm kinda veering away from the next-gens however and have failed to pick up Anniversary since I encountered a glitch after killing the T-Rex (which was a mean feat and the area was all so contained and with nowhere to hide :whistle: ).

[/COLOR]

I agree I could not believe that they didn't provide any hiding places. I'm a long distance killer whenever possible. I like to reach out and touch someone or thing from safety. Dieing so totally sucks. lol:lmao:

rg_001100
7th Nov 2008, 08:36
The new ones have great eye candy, but that does not a great game make.... I think Underworld will be the tipping point for me weither I stay indifferent or become enthuiastic about the new Lara. I am however looking forward to its release . Played demo and loved it.

Why wait at Underworld? Look at the trends:
CD's development of TR has so far improved with every release, and no sign of stopping. TR:L was short, eye-candy with little raiding, and a lot of merc-shooting, but there's no doubt TR:A was an improvement on this. TR:A had some good raiding parts, and had some not so great raiding parts, but was ultimately better than TR:L. TR:U is an improvement upon TR:A, even. The raiding we have seen from the demo might have been fairly simplistic, but there was so much more of the sense of exploration in the TR:U demo than was in TR:L and TR:A. There weren't simple "corridor" spaces to fill the gaps between areas as was done in TR:A.
CD have also begun to implement brilliant features in TR:U such as "Player Tailoring", the Sonar Map, and Lara's help (within the PDA menu). These features allow CD to cater to the broader audience of fans it seeks to play TR, as well as being able to make a challenging game. CD may not have made full use of these systems in TR:U, but I have no doubt that they will impress, and they will be improved upon in better, future TR games from Crystal Dynamics.

tiger
8th Nov 2008, 02:34
rg, those were all very good and interesting points about TRU.

But it will be sad, if TRU beauty and gimmicks destroys their PC market. :(
PC demo players - are you able to play the demo OK? (http://www.tombraiderforums.com/showthread.php?t=137354)

So, is the huge world and audience of TR worth two versions of a new release?
TRA plays just fine on my PC, while TRU will not even start.

(And please, don't argue about buying this and that for TRU, because certain European and Asian folks will simply ignore you and then simply walk-away from TRU. And when TRU fails those markets, this Christmas, Eidos might understand them?) :cool:

*** GoLarago, I put several versions of that flip-turn in my AHK mods, but you have to decide which keys? ;)

rg_001100
8th Nov 2008, 04:34
rg, those were all very good and interesting points about TRU.

But it will be sad, if TRU beauty and gimmicks destroys their PC market. :(
PC demo players - are you able to play the demo OK? (http://www.tombraiderforums.com/showthread.php?t=137354)

So, is the huge world and audience of TR worth two versions of a new release?
TRA plays just fine on my PC, while TRU will not even start.

(And please, don't argue about buying this and that for TRU, because certain European and Asian folks will simply ignore you and then simply walk-away from TRU. And when TRU fails those markets, this Christmas, Eidos might understand them?) :cool:


Results of the TRF Poll (as of time of posting):

Yes. Runs beautifully (173) 35.02%
Yes. Runs OK (99) 20.04%
Yes. Runs poorly (79) 15.99%
No. I am not able to play the demo (143) 28.95%

55.06% can run it vs. 44.94%
Slim margin, however, still in positive for PC...
It must be said, though, that the Tomb Raider games developed by CD (CD-TR) are not primarily PC games, and although some features of the PC have been used, CD-TR is much more of a console game. This is evidenced by the controls/camera, playable on the PC by any decent PC gamer, but typically easier with a gamepad.
And the number of people playing TR games on a PC isn't going to be majority either, regardless of what the performance stats would be. I don't think any online poll is going to cover this... more people with a PC that plays TR will vote in an online poll than people who play it on a console.

Of the losing the PC gaming market because of TR:U? I personally do not buy this. The requirements for TR may be steeper than would be expected, but this is more of a good thing than a bad thing. It's an indication that TR is once again reaching high-end graphics of games; TR1 was revolutionary for graphics, it's about time that TR started taking this place once again (and that means some good hardware).
But also if steep hardware requirements for a game, that make a PC unable to play TR, are going to stop a PC gamer from gaming on a PC, then they don't deserve to play on the PC and should play on a console, where the requirements are constant and consistant. Upgrading is a necessary and routine part of PC gaming.
It is worth noting that many of the people marked under "will not run PC demo" would have intended to play on Laptops, of which a majority would have poor chipsets to play any game, let alone TR. Ability for the laptops to play TR:L/TR:A is more/less due to the fact the games are now old technology-wise.

Kami
8th Nov 2008, 22:00
Both have good and bad points ;)

GoLarago
9th Nov 2008, 20:03
rg, those were all very good and interesting points about TRU.

But it will be sad, if TRU beauty and gimmicks destroys their PC market. :(
PC demo players - are you able to play the demo OK? (http://www.tombraiderforums.com/showthread.php?t=137354)

So, is the huge world and audience of TR worth two versions of a new release?
TRA plays just fine on my PC, while TRU will not even start.

(And please, don't argue about buying this and that for TRU, because certain European and Asian folks will simply ignore you and then simply walk-away from TRU. And when TRU fails those markets, this Christmas, Eidos might understand them?) :cool:

*** GoLarago, I put several versions of that flip-turn in my AHK mods, but you have to decide which keys? ;)

You know I just started doing mods in the last year or so. But yah know I never once thot about mods for TR. I know they are out there now, but it never crossed my mind (what little I have left) lol

GoLarago
9th Nov 2008, 20:21
Why wait at Underworld? Look at the trends:
CD's development of TR has so far improved with every release, and no sign of stopping. TR:L was short, eye-candy with little raiding, and a lot of merc-shooting, but there's no doubt TR:A was an improvement on this. TR:A had some good raiding parts, and had some not so great raiding parts, but was ultimately better than TR:L. TR:U is an improvement upon TR:A, even. The raiding we have seen from the demo might have been fairly simplistic, but there was so much more of the sense of exploration in the TR:U demo than was in TR:L and TR:A. There weren't simple "corridor" spaces to fill the gaps between areas as was done in TR:A.
CD have also begun to implement brilliant features in TR:U such as "Player Tailoring", the Sonar Map, and Lara's help (within the PDA menu). These features allow CD to cater to the broader audience of fans it seeks to play TR, as well as being able to make a challenging game. CD may not have made full use of these systems in TR:U, but I have no doubt that they will impress, and they will be improved upon in better, future TR games from Crystal Dynamics.

Not real sure I understood what "Why wait at Underworld" meant but. I in NO way was dissing Underworld. I thot the Demo was fantastic except for some minor glitches that didn't effect game play for me. I myself have been playing since TR1, but want anyone taking over any franchise (reguardless of what it might be.),to stay true to the "history" so to speak. If you are going to change the character so much that they no longer resemble the original why bother using the name. I'm talking personality wise here not graphics. Its kind of like these people that do a movie based on a book and when the movies done all that remains of the book is the title and the main characters name.
Looking at the demo I'm seeing that maybe we have got TR back up to speed and ready to rock the way the old ones did . That way we get the great play of the old with the new controls and graphics of next-gen. That would really be a great combination.:D

Jurre
9th Nov 2008, 21:15
If you are going to change the character so much that they no longer resemble the original why bother using the name.
After seeing what happened over the years to characters like James Bond, the Prince of Persia, Spike and Suzy and what not all I can say is: welcome on earth...

rg_001100
10th Nov 2008, 01:46
Not real sure I understood what "Why wait at Underworld" meant....

I was saying equivalent of "Why have TR:U as your do or die game?", in that from CD it's only going to get better than TR:U, if you look at the trends. Whereas with Core, they ended with games like TR5 and TR:AoD, not marked high up on the list by fans... I'd be willing to bet that TR:U will appear higher on the favourites lists (that people have) than TR:L and TR:A, no matter what preference of "old-skool" or "next-gen".

GoLarago
10th Nov 2008, 04:17
I was saying equivalent of "Why have TR:U as your do or die game?", in that from CD it's only going to get better than TR:U, if you look at the trends. Whereas with Core, they ended with games like TR5 and TR:AoD, not marked high up on the list by fans... I'd be willing to bet that TR:U will appear higher on the favourites lists (that people have) than TR:L and TR:A, no matter what preference of "old-skool" or "next-gen".

I couldn't agree more. That wasn't what I meant. Example: I love James Bond movies but since Craig and Broston they don't seem like Bond movies. They are too Bourne Identity like. Great movies but too different to think of as Bond. There was alot of humor in the old ones. The new ones for all the great Bond gadgets are too serious. I just don't want to see Laras' personality changed so much that shes not Lara anymore.

If the demo is any indication of the quality of the full game, It will be the best of the 3 new ones. Don't get me wrong I do love the great new graphics. They get more realistic each year it seems. What has happened though is that to achieve those graphics game makers have had to short change us so to speak on the length of our beloved games. Games cost too much to plop down $50 to $65 for 4 or 5 hours worth. And from what I've heard, if I'm correct the fans in Europe pay even more.