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SuperE
4th Nov 2008, 19:45
If there is a altenative reality campaign do you think we might see some soviet ships because I would love to see the Sovyetskiy Soyuz class battleship.

I would kind of like to see what other people think that Stalin would have done.

Polarshark
4th Nov 2008, 20:01
If there is a altenative reality campaign do you think we might see some soviet ships because I would love to see the Sovyetskiy Soyuz class battleship.

I would kind of like to see what other people think that Stalin would have done.

0% chance about that happening

soviets aren't needed in the pacific

america would just fight with whatever they have or call in more briitsh troops

SuperE
4th Nov 2008, 20:30
Yeah but the main reason it took so long for the soviets to declare war on Japan was because Japan wasn't a direct threat to them also because they knew that the US would become an enemy so they let Japan and the US duke it out to weaken the US navy.

If the US was in danger of losing then I think the USSR would send in ships because Japan would become a threat to them and they would most likely send in some forces so Japan wouldn't have a chance to send an Invasion force into Siberia and from China. If that happened then the Soviets would be overwhelmed in a two front war and then the rest of the allies would fall with the Soviets because then Germany would have a lot of stress taken off of one front and would move more forces to Great Britan.

Really we might see less British warships and see some German ships like the Tirpitz, and captured French vessels like the Richelieu and Dunkerque and maybe a couple of Itailian vessels too because there would most likely be a German invasion of Alaska after Russia lost with a lot of the troops from the Russian front taking down Canada and the US with Mexican troops coming in from the South to start a two front war in North America.

If you think about it the Japannese lost the war for the Axis with a not total victory at Pearl Habour.

Other than that I would just like to see the Sovyetskiy Soyuz it because it would be a more powerful ship than the Iowa with its secondary as 12x150mm/6in guns and turrets increasing by one gun per turret so it has eqaul amount of main guns

tc2324
12th Nov 2008, 08:54
As mentioned before there is no chance of a Russian involvement within the game. The Russians declared war on japan in the closing weeks of the war for 2 reasons. 1. To look like they were doing something to aid their allies in the P.T.O. but the 2nd, and main reason, was that they saw an oppotunity to gain what they saw as easy territory. What they didn`t count on was the ferocity of the Japanese troops guarding that particular border and the Russian incursion was in the end very slight.

As for the comment about the Russians holding back so that the IJN and USN `dukeing` it out would weaken the USN, you have to remember that the USN come out of WW2 as the most powerful navy in the world. The fact of the matter is that the Russian Navy had always been beaten by the IJN in pretty much every minor conflict they had faced each other in prior to WW2 and coupled with the inexperience the Russian navy had during the war, no matter how big the guns they had, my money would have been on the IJN every time.

bread
15th Nov 2008, 17:09
not that it actually matter to anyone but the russians and japanese had a peace treaty or something after the russo-japanese war.

Arrow
15th Nov 2008, 19:11
not that it actually matter to anyone but the russians and japanese had a peace treaty or something after the russo-japanese war.

I believe that's the way war works - at the end of the war, you make a peace treaty. Otherwise it's not the end of the war ;)

crazyhorse128
16th Nov 2008, 16:00
Yeah but the main reason it took so long for the soviets to declare war on Japan was because Japan wasn't a direct threat to them also because they knew that the US would become an enemy so they let Japan and the US duke it out to weaken the US navy.

And also this guy called Hitler was running a mock in the west. With Lenningrad besiged, Stalingrad flattend and Moscow barely hanging on, keeping the eastern border was the only concern they had with japan. Only once the Germans are pretty much out of it then do the Sov's begin to think about attacking.
Plus what navy would CCCP wield during WW2? a few submarines!?

SuperE
18th Nov 2008, 04:25
During world war one the USSR had 12 battleships and they were working on four more battleships during world war 2 but one was in the shipyards of Lenningrad.

As for the USN it could have been severly crippled at pearl habour if the carreirs were taken out the subs sunk and the oilfields destroyed. With all of that gone the japanesse could have attacked the shipyards on the West Coast

YUKIMURA300
18th Nov 2008, 15:20
Russia had four battleships and were lent one more by the Royal Navy.

12 my ass.

It3llig3nc3
18th Nov 2008, 17:01
Russia had four battleships and were lent one more by the Royal Navy.

12 my ass.

LOL :lmao:
Another fine example of that a little research never hurts. When on the internet GOOGLE or WIKIPEDIA are quickly accessible to validate a few facts.

My GUESS is that the 12 battleship our friend SuperE was talking about are partly fictious or ones that has been already broken up or decommissioned when WWII started OR they were in build but never launched:

Dreadnoughts
Battleships-of-the-line ("lineinyi korabl’").
Sevastopol’ (1911) class (4 units)
Sevastopol (1911 BF) - Renamed Parizhskaya Kommuna 1921, transferred to the Black Sea Fleet 1929-30, renamed Sevastopol’ 1943, Training Battleship 1954, BU 1956-1957
Petropavlovsk (1911 BF) - Renamed Marat 1921, damaged in 1941 but repaired and used as floating battery, renamed Petropavlovsk 1943, Training Ship 1951, decommissioned 1953
Poltava (1911 BF) - Renamed Frunze 1929, burnt 1919 & 1923, decommissioned 1941, BU 1949
Gangut (1911 BF) - Renamed Oktiabrskaya Revoliutsiya 1925, Training Battleship 1954, BU 1956-1957

Imperatritsa Mariya class (4 units)
Imperatritsa Mariya (1914 BSF) - Sank 1916 by ammunition explosion, refloated 1918, BU 1922
Ekaterina II (1911 BSF) - Renamed Imperatritsa Ekaterina Velikaya 1915, renamed Svobodnaya Rossiya 1917, scuttled at Novorossiysk to prevent capture 1918
Imperator Aleksandr III (1914 BSF) - Renamed Volya 1917, captured by Germany 1918, captured by the United Kingdom 1918, delivered to White Army 1919, renamed General Alekseev, interned by France at Bizerte, returned to Soviet Russia in 1924 and sold for BU, BU by 1936
Imperator Nikolai I (1916 BSF) - Not completed. Renamed Demokratiya 1917, BU after 1927

Super-Dreadnoughts (LK)
Battleships-of-the-line ("lineinyi korabl’ (LK)").
Project 23 (Sovetsky Soyuz class) (4 units) (none launched)
Sovetsky Soyuz - Decommissioned 1941, BU 1948-49
Sovetskaya Ukraina - Decommissioned 1941, BU 1946
Sovetskaya Byelorussia - Decommissioned 1941, BU 1945-46
Sovetskaya Rossiya - Decommissioned 1941,BU 1940s

Arkhangel’sk (1915; ex-British HMS Royal Sovereign, transferred 1944 Northern Fleet in account of reparations from Italy) - Returned 1949 (instead of Giulio Cesare), BU after 1949
Novorossiysk (1911; ex-Italian Giulio Cesare) - Taken according to reparations from Italy, transferred 1948 (BSF), Exploded by non cleared up reason 1955

(C) Wikipedia - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Russian_battleships#Battleships

andy3536
18th Nov 2008, 21:44
Thank god the devs don't listen to all these hairbrained scemes.

Wheres the Italian Navy?

How about the French.......


If they wern't there in real life they shouldn't be in the game, might aswell be playing command and conquer if you start thinking like that.

You wouldn't have a first person shooter set in stilingrad with British or US troops, or japanese troops defending the beaches of normandy. Just wouldn't be right.

Red October
18th Nov 2008, 22:21
Thank god the devs don't listen to all these hairbrained scemes.

Wheres the Italian Navy?

How about the French.......


If they wern't there in real life they shouldn't be in the game, might aswell be playing command and conquer if you start thinking like that.

You wouldn't have a first person shooter set in stilingrad with British or US troops, or japanese troops defending the beaches of normandy. Just wouldn't be right.


LOL while your at it throw in some Aliens and Zombies. :lol:

YUKIMURA300
19th Nov 2008, 00:14
LOL :lmao:
Another fine example of that a little research never hurts. When on the internet GOOGLE or WIKIPEDIA are quickly accessible to validate a few facts.

My GUESS is that the 12 battleship our friend SuperE was talking about are partly fictious or ones that has been already broken up or decommissioned when WWII started OR they were in build but never launched:

Dreadnoughts
Battleships-of-the-line ("lineinyi korabl’").
Sevastopol’ (1911) class (4 units)
Sevastopol (1911 BF) - Renamed Parizhskaya Kommuna 1921, transferred to the Black Sea Fleet 1929-30, renamed Sevastopol’ 1943, Training Battleship 1954, BU 1956-1957
Petropavlovsk (1911 BF) - Renamed Marat 1921, damaged in 1941 but repaired and used as floating battery, renamed Petropavlovsk 1943, Training Ship 1951, decommissioned 1953
Poltava (1911 BF) - Renamed Frunze 1929, burnt 1919 & 1923, decommissioned 1941, BU 1949
Gangut (1911 BF) - Renamed Oktiabrskaya Revoliutsiya 1925, Training Battleship 1954, BU 1956-1957

Imperatritsa Mariya class (4 units)
Imperatritsa Mariya (1914 BSF) - Sank 1916 by ammunition explosion, refloated 1918, BU 1922
Ekaterina II (1911 BSF) - Renamed Imperatritsa Ekaterina Velikaya 1915, renamed Svobodnaya Rossiya 1917, scuttled at Novorossiysk to prevent capture 1918
Imperator Aleksandr III (1914 BSF) - Renamed Volya 1917, captured by Germany 1918, captured by the United Kingdom 1918, delivered to White Army 1919, renamed General Alekseev, interned by France at Bizerte, returned to Soviet Russia in 1924 and sold for BU, BU by 1936
Imperator Nikolai I (1916 BSF) - Not completed. Renamed Demokratiya 1917, BU after 1927

Super-Dreadnoughts (LK)
Battleships-of-the-line ("lineinyi korabl’ (LK)").
Project 23 (Sovetsky Soyuz class) (4 units) (none launched)
Sovetsky Soyuz - Decommissioned 1941, BU 1948-49
Sovetskaya Ukraina - Decommissioned 1941, BU 1946
Sovetskaya Byelorussia - Decommissioned 1941, BU 1945-46
Sovetskaya Rossiya - Decommissioned 1941,BU 1940s

Arkhangel’sk (1915; ex-British HMS Royal Sovereign, transferred 1944 Northern Fleet in account of reparations from Italy) - Returned 1949 (instead of Giulio Cesare), BU after 1949
Novorossiysk (1911; ex-Italian Giulio Cesare) - Taken according to reparations from Italy, transferred 1948 (BSF), Exploded by non cleared up reason 1955

(C) Wikipedia - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Russian_battleships#Battleships

Unlike the majority, I'm not stupid enough to count pre-dreads and Stalinist pet projects that weren't even half built when they were scrapped.

And that Italian was transferred AFTER the war.

The Yamato
19th Nov 2008, 17:08
The only reason for Russia to declare war on Japan was to cover up more the mistake they made at the begining of the war when they helped Germany invade Poland. In 1939 Germany and Russia saw each other as simular (they both had dictatorships) and held several meetings with each other to plan the invasion together. Stalin sercretly agreed that a German military base was put in the middle of north which was part of the agreement. So that Russia and Germany could control the north sea so it could be used as a supply line in a top secret operation. However Stalins men had a feeling that Germany would betray them but Stalin kept on dismissing it as not true intill Germany started to invade. Then Russia switched sides after being betrayed because Stalin wanted to be on the winning side so Russia could get more land for itself. Stalin covered up the mistake to France and Great Britian etc because if they found out that they helped Germany in 1939, Russia would find themselfs on no ones side. Stalin moved Polish people to Kazakstan away from Poland because he saw the land gained in Poland as Russias new land. He killed many Polish too in displicable acts of genocide which went unoticed to the allies. All of this has only been revealed in recent years after being hidden for so long. Russia Knew they couldn't fight two fronts on its borders therefore Stalin tried to avoid for as long as possible not go to war with Japan. Russia only did so was because they was forced by the cover up mistake they made at the begining of the war. I watched a documentary on this but I cant remember the name of it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Poland_(1939)

SuperE
20th Nov 2008, 04:13
[QUOTE=YUKIMURA300;893347]Unlike the majority, I'm not stupid enough to count pre-dreads
[QUOTE]

I don't know what is your definition of a battleship is but mine is the original definition which is the "line-of-battle ship". That does include pre-dreads.

tc2324
20th Nov 2008, 13:33
Blimey, I hope they include the elusive `handbag` navy in the game as alot seem to get thrown on this thread! :lol: :lol: :lol:

It3llig3nc3
20th Nov 2008, 13:54
This thread is obviously going into a wrong direction.
The fact that many people does not even know the size and composition of the USSR Navy for the game's time period does not really help the discussion.

I still believe that the focus of the Battlestations "series" should be kept on the major scenes with the key forces.

The thing is that the BS:M/BS:P game concept is invoking a lot of thoughts and grabs anyone's interest who likes WWII naval history. Many times this interest include small special details for each individual.

The unfortunate part is that EIDOS on purpose cuts all the ways for the community to mod the game, therefore these special interests and "needs" can not be realized. Wouldn't it be beautiful if BS:P had been moddalbe, so if somebody likes the idea just builds a map and a few Russian ships? Who would be bothered? Nobody. It is too bad that the community can't take this thing into it's own hand. Obviusly for EIDOS it is simply does not worth to invest into specialized areas like that. But for FANs this is everything.

I really hope one day this game or a future version of it will be moddable and the discussion here on the forum won't be about dreaming about such things, but more exchanging links as where to download from...

SuperE
3rd Dec 2008, 01:19
Not everyone on this forum play this game on the PC and the only way things happen for the Xbox is if we ask.

dont say anything nothing happens

It3llig3nc3
3rd Dec 2008, 10:00
Not everyone on this forum play this game on the PC and the only way things happen for the Xbox is if we ask.

dont say anything nothing happens

:confused: What????? :confused:

SuperE
4th Dec 2008, 03:15
basicly what i said is that there are no mods on xbox

CaptHawkeye
29th Dec 2008, 14:12
And also this guy called Hitler was running a mock in the west. With Lenningrad besiged, Stalingrad flattend and Moscow barely hanging on, keeping the eastern border was the only concern they had with japan. Only once the Germans are pretty much out of it then do the Sov's begin to think about attacking.
Plus what navy would CCCP wield during WW2? a few submarines!?

As it was the Soviet Union effectively had no Navy. They had a few dreadnoughts but most of them were either obsolete or in poor condition. This wasn't unexpected, since Soviet Defense Policy had stressed the inevitability of a land war with any conceivable future opponent. Japan had made attempts to attack Russia early in the war but they proved so disastrous that Japan abandoned any plans to invade Russia entirely.

Once Barbarossa happened any call for a naval force effectively ceased. The Germans were invading the huge mass of Russia itself, not the Baltic or Caspian. Production concentrated on infantry equipment, tanks, and aircraft. When the war ended their was call for a naval force to deal with NATO's own massive Maritime capabilities, but the victory over Germany had been fought 99.9% on land. This convinced the Kremlin that Russia would never have any real need for a huge Navy and they've never had one since the end of the Czar as a result. What they've got now are some Cruiser/Carrier hybrids and a couple of really big missile cruisers. Lots of submarines, but subs don't constitute a "real" naval force.

Waffen
3rd Jan 2009, 20:57
yea. Here how it was before and after pearl. on power.

Before
Land: Germans, UK, Russia.
Sea: U.S. Jap's, some what brits.
Air: Germans, Brits, Japs,

After
Land:Germans,UK,Russia,U.S
Sea:U.S. (<-- very later ) Japs( barley) brits.
Air:Germans ( till a little after D-day ) japs, U.S. with there mustangs.
I made this list on the beter stuff like the Zeros where more then a macth for a F-4 wildcat and with the germans BF-109's easily crushed Russian air power. And in North Africa and Eroupe the British had more fire power. And i air power of fighters.