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puzl
3rd Nov 2008, 12:03
Would you be happier? I never played the original Fallout games, but I really enjoyed Morrowind and Oblivion. I'm playing Fallout 3 now and it really does remind me so much of Deus Ex in places. The freedom and character interaction especially, but in particular the choice/consequence system. It really does raise the bar for linear storytelling in a non-linear environment.

I actually think Eidos Montreal is doing a fantastic job on DX3 and I love the art style in particular. I just wanted to raise the question of whether you think Bethesda would have made a good game in the DX universe. Many hardcore Fallout fans complained that they ruined the game mechanics by essentially making Fallout into "Oblivion with guns" but I personally think the DX world would work very well under this engine. Thoughts?

DXeXodus
3rd Nov 2008, 12:29
Bethesda are excellent game developers in my opinion. Sure, they fall flat in a few areas (character modeling, voice-acting, animation) but when it comes to a good story, memorable characters, immersive worlds, in-depth mechanics, etc, they are excellent. Again, my opinion.

I too love what Eidos Montreal are doing with Deus Ex 3, but I cannot help but wonder how much better/worse it could be in the hands of a developer like Bethesda. Based on what I have seen so far of Fallout 3, I think we would end up with a more complex game with "proper" RPG elements and maybe less of some of the "issues" we have seen so far from Eidos Montreal. I.e, Regen Health, no shadow stealth, etc.

I think each developer has their own pro's and con's, but at the moment I am just hoping for the best from the guys and girls at Eidos Montreal. I have full faith in them despite some of the choices they have made so far. I firmly believe Deus Ex 3 will be a great game in it's own right. How it fares when held up against Deus Ex 1 will be interesting to see.

spm1138
3rd Nov 2008, 13:54
I haven't played any Bethesda games. My friends are all yelling at me to get FO3 and I probably will after I clear my current batch of deadlines.

From what I'm hearing though I don't think they'd be right for DX.

My friends are making it sound quite open and non-linear in places.

DX is more about about clear progression of story with non-linear approaches to each problem.

I think most if not all of the choices EM have made are good ones. I'm replaying DX at the moment and it's as I remember. Great, but not perfect in every area. Some of the changes they're making fix things that I'd thought "Hmmm" about long before DX3 was announced.

If anything, the earlier branches in the storyline they mention in the EDGE review will be more Bethesda than DX1 was.

Icarus AI
3rd Nov 2008, 15:18
Dear God no!

That would be horrible. Their games are nothing like Deus Ex and quite frankly imo Fallout 3 (pretty decent game still) feels nothing like the original games.

Well there are few things that Bethesda's games has common with Deus Ex: horrible animations and AI.

Jerion
3rd Nov 2008, 18:23
Bethesda are excellent game developers in my opinion. Sure, they fall flat in a few areas (character modeling, voice-acting, animation) but when it comes to a good story, memorable characters, immersive worlds, in-depth mechanics, etc, they are excellent. Again, my opinion.

I too love what Eidos Montreal are doing with Deus Ex 3, but I cannot help but wonder how much better/worse it could be in the hands of a developer like Bethesda. Based on what I have seen so far of Fallout 3, I think we would end up with a more complex game with "proper" RPG elements and maybe less of some of the "issues" we have seen so far from Eidos Montreal. I.e, Regen Health, no shadow stealth, etc.

I think each developer has their own pro's and con's, but at the moment I am just hoping for the best from the guys and girls at Eidos Montreal. I have full faith in them despite some of the choices they have made so far. I firmly believe Deus Ex 3 will be a great game in it's own right. How it fares when held up against Deus Ex 1 will be interesting to see.

I agree, and the last bit is my opinion exactly.

I think that Bethesda had better send EM a cake when DX 3 ships though. :D

MaxxQ1
3rd Nov 2008, 20:50
:D
I agree, and the last bit is my opinion exactly.

I think that Bethesda had better send EM a cake when DX 3 ships though. :D

And it had better have several layers, to represent the layers of subterfuge and conspiracy that should be a part of the DX universe.

...and universal icing.*























*:D I hate icing, as well as universal ammo...

WhatsHisFace
3rd Nov 2008, 21:59
Being as Bethesda actually respects source material, I'd rather have Bethesda in charge of Deus Ex 3.

Mr. Perfect
3rd Nov 2008, 23:43
Hell no. They'd put SecureROM in it.

DXeXodus
4th Nov 2008, 03:36
but now I'm starting to believe that it's early to make premature judgments.

You better hope that one of our other members, CarloGervasi, doesn't read that statement. :D

mr_cyberpunk
4th Nov 2008, 04:53
Bethesda have the worst writers in the biz and the Worst Voice Actors.

**** Bethesda.. GET ME BIOWARE! ;)

Ritter
4th Nov 2008, 05:02
Bethesda have the worst writers in the biz and the Worst Voice Actors.

**** Bethesda.. GET ME BIOWARE! ;)

Bioware's used to be awesome but they've gone downhill since NWN1.Mass effect was a piece of overhyped crap.And no,I don't see Bioware can write a story full of conspiracies.Maybe obsidian can make Deus ex but their games are so incredibly buggy and have way too many cut-contents

GmanPro
4th Nov 2008, 05:06
HAH! Personally i wouldn't trust Bethesda OR Bioware to make this game. I love Bethesda and Bioware and all their games but this is not their game to ruin, its EM's to ruin!!!! :D

...

:(

Besides, i think that BioWare is going in the wrong direction right now. Mass Effect was ok but i don't like the style of the recent games they've made. Baldur's Gate was by far their greatest game series. They need to reunite Black Isle and make some more great games imo. :thumbsup:

DXeXodus
4th Nov 2008, 05:10
The older Bioware game are absolute class IMO. Baldurs Fate, Neverwinter Nights, KOTOR, etc.

Mass Effect..... Meh.

Ritter
4th Nov 2008, 05:11
HAH! Personally i wouldn't trust Bethesda OR Bioware to make this game. I love Bethesda and Bioware and all their games but this is not their game to ruin, its EM's to ruin!!!! :D

...

:(

Besides, i think that BioWare is going in the wrong direction right now. Mass Effect was ok but i don't like the style of the recent games they've made. Baldur's Gate was by far their greatest game series. They need to reunite Black Isle and make some more great games imo. :thumbsup:
Well frankly I think Bioware's overrated IMO,sure BG1 and 2 were some of the greatest RPG games ever made but those 2 games had Black Isle's hand in them

GmanPro
4th Nov 2008, 05:14
Well frankly I think Bioware's a overrated IMO,sure BG1 and 2 were some of the greatest RPG games ever made but those 2 games had Black Isle's hand in them

Which is why I will play that new NWN2 expansion (If they EVER decide to finally release it!) cause thats Obsidian. And I'm pretty sure that most of the Black Isle guys split away from Bioware to form Obsidian. I don't think that ANY of the guys who worked on actually making Baldur's gate are even still with Bioware anymore unfortunately...

Ritter
4th Nov 2008, 05:19
Which is why I will play that new NWN2 expansion (If they EVER decide to finally release it!) cause thats Obsidian. And I'm pretty sure that most of the Black Isle guys split away from Bioware to form Obsidian. I don't think that ANY of the guys who worked on actually making Baldur's gate are even still with Bioware anymore unfortunately...

NWN2 was much better than NWN1,but the game was too buggy and the system requirement was ridiculous for the game's sub-par graphic >_>.Personally I like both Kotor 2 and NWN 2 better than Kotor 1 and NWN 1

Ritter
4th Nov 2008, 05:24
Btw,Obsidian's making Alpha protocol,a third person action RPG with conspiracy theme :)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha_Protocol

GmanPro
4th Nov 2008, 05:25
NWN2 was much better than NWN1,but the game was too buggy and the system requirement was ridiculous for the game's sub-par graphic >_>.Personally I like both Kotor 2 and NWN 2 better than Kotor 1 and NWN 1


yeah i definitely agree that NWN1 official campaign was total crap. But Hordes of the Underdark was awesome. And correct me if I'm wrong here but I think Obsidian made that one. Kotor 2 was really good IMO, a shame that it was rushed at the end but i actually really liked KotoR 1 too for whatever reason.

mr_cyberpunk
4th Nov 2008, 05:26
Mass Effect Meh? were you people playing the same game?

The game is as non-linear as Deus Ex, it has plenty of Action and Stealth. Driving levels are Meh.

The problem with Mass Effect is that if you don't do side quests you basically miss out on why the game is so good. I don't like how they structured the main quest for that reason because ideally it should have incorporated the side quests more fluidly (you get triggered encounters, more of those would have been better since most players missed all the other stuff by rushing through the game).

Mass Effects story is very complex, if not the most complex that's ever been tried due to relying on sequels to continue the story branches. Meaning what you did in the first game will have a huge effect on the next one. Deus Ex failed miserably at that.

If you can't acknowledge the ground it made than you've obviously not finished the game. And if you have.. as if you missed that.. what the hell.

GmanPro
4th Nov 2008, 05:28
Btw,Obsidian's making Alpha protocol,a third person action RPG with conspiracy theme :)

:) Sweet. Not so sure about 3rd person (I mean seriously people, It was good in Max Payne and KotoR but that's about it), but at least they wont have auto heal. :D

I hope...

Ritter
4th Nov 2008, 05:59
Mass Effect Meh? were you people playing the same game?

The game is as non-linear as Deus Ex, it has plenty of Action and Stealth. Driving levels are Meh.

The problem with Mass Effect is that if you don't do side quests you basically miss out on why the game is so good. I don't like how they structured the main quest for that reason because ideally it should have incorporated the side quests more fluidly (you get triggered encounters, more of those would have been better since most players missed all the other stuff by rushing through the game).

Mass Effects story is very complex, if not the most complex that's ever been tried due to relying on sequels to continue the story branches. Meaning what you did in the first game will have a huge effect on the next one. Deus Ex failed miserably at that.

If you can't acknowledge the ground it made than you've obviously not finished the game. And if you have.. as if you missed that.. what the hell.
Gimme a break sidequests are the weakest point of Mass effect.Seriously,every quest in the game is almost identical in execution,the same for the layout.And the story's complex?Ahem,I can't recall ancient hidden enemy make a comeback to wipe out galactic civilizations is something new,it's been done to death b4.Yeah sure,we've not known the reason for their doing yet,maybe we'll get to know it in the next games,maybe the reason'll be something new,or maybe the reaper afraid that the new civilizations will grow too strong and the reapers are just paranoid beings like Bush.Seriously,the story's so damn generic and cliche.
And I've replayed the game to almost broken just to find something exciting,haven't found any yet.I'd appreciate it if you can tell me
And Mass effect has stealth approach?Now that's something new to me :scratch:

Ritter
4th Nov 2008, 06:07
yeah i definitely agree that NWN1 official campaign was total crap. But Hordes of the Underdark was awesome. And correct me if I'm wrong here but I think Obsidian made that one. Kotor 2 was really good IMO, a shame that it was rushed at the end but i actually really liked KotoR 1 too for whatever reason.

Horde of the Underdark was made by Bioware :)

GmanPro
4th Nov 2008, 06:08
To be fair dude, the main quest in Mass Effect was at least very well done. It reminded me of Baldur's Gate in that my character was actually important. So many RPG's these days just let u make some random dude to go and save the world. And It's like, I don't really care about this guy, you know?

I liked playing as the badass god-child or the first epic human-specter agent dude. The main quest was cool and cinematic, and I'm pretty sure that BioWare will learn from their mistakes and make the next Mass Effect a little better on the side-quest front. I'm pretty sure that they r gonna take out the driving levels, I really hope they do anyway.

Ritter
4th Nov 2008, 06:12
To be fair dude, the main quest in Mass Effect was at least very well done. It reminded me of Baldur's Gate in that my character was actually important. So many RPG's these days just let u make some random dude to go and save the world. And It's like, I don't really care about this guy, you know?

I liked playing as the badass god-child or the first epic human-scepter agent dude. The main quest was cool and cinematic, and I'm pretty sure that BioWare will learn from their mistakes and make the next Mass Effect a little better on the side-quest front. I'm pretty sure that they r gonna take out the driving levels, I really hope they do anyway.

Yeah,I gotta admit ME's main quest was really well done but the combat system and the side quests were disaster :(

Laokin
5th Nov 2008, 21:11
Yeah,I gotta admit ME's main quest was really well done but the combat system and the side quests were disaster :(

I played and beat mass effect, aswell as Baldurs gate and never winter. Kotor's sucked... yes both of them.

Mass Effect was brilliant.

The world was so lush and full of life... The combat was fine.
It may be to action oriented for you but it was fine.

The vehicles part was a good concept too, reminded me of Blaster Master from nes. All though there were issues with the Mako (lol always reminds me of DX) like it not being able to shoot down.... hopefully we'll get a redesign in mass effect 2. Other wise... I think most people set expectations that are unreachable. The side quests in ME were much better than any RPG of recent times. I loved the computer with the mind of it's own that was killing people and ultimately killed itself trying to kill you -- brilliant side quest IMO. Some of them though, like scanner the keepers were generic, but more often than not, they took the same approach as the main quest. I didn't see any stealth to be had in that game though... although I don't really feel like it's the sort of game that should of had stealth. Stealth isn't a necessity for a game to be good... after all, there are different genre's for a reason.

Sometimes I get really confused wondering how people don't enjoy great games. Ya know your expectations are ludicrous when you praise a game like DX 1 and you think ME sucks. DX 1 was not this end all god game that you all make it out to be -- it did how ever sport a story line way ahead of it's time. Combat was subpar IMO, and the stealth in shadows always seemed a little fake to me. Real immersion breaker, that game was fortunate enough to do more things right then wrong and that's what makes it a good game. There is no game without flaw.... just remember that.

P.S.
DX 1 was also fun cuz of the gimmick of biomods. Yes, I said gimmick.

Bio mods = special abilities like Fireball in diablo, they just took a creative writing course to explain it into the story.

Spiffmeister
14th Nov 2008, 13:13
Take note that while Fallout 3 has first person combat, the focus is still very much on the RPG element as such (personally I found that I could pump out far more damage with the V.A.P.S thingo). Deus Ex is an FPS with RPG elements, they seem the same, but game play wise their quite different (at least that's how I find them).

Lets let Bethesda stick to RPG's with FPS elements, and Edios Montreal make a perfect FPS with RPG elements.

Freddo
14th Nov 2008, 17:14
I would absolutely love to see a cyberpunk game with an open gameworld like the TES series and Fallout 3.

Infact, it's pretty much the foundation for what I consider to be the perfect game. Since the mid 90s I've been wishing for an openended cyberpunk game, but it hasn't arrived yet :(

Fallout 3 feels sort of like a Morrowind/Deus Ex hybrid to me, but in a wasteland, with all it's lockpicking, computer hacking and so on. Very cool, even if the wasteland is a far less interesting place to be than a large futurisic dystopian city.

I woudn't want Bethsoft to do Deus Ex, though. They can make their own cyberpunk universe :p

zauxz
14th Nov 2008, 17:35
if DX3 would be created by bethesda........ Adam would learn to moonwalk. Sad , but true.

SageSavage
14th Nov 2008, 19:22
I would absolutely love to see a cyberpunk game with an open gameworld like the TES series and Fallout 3.

Infact, it's pretty much the foundation for what I consider to be the perfect game. Since the mid 90s I've been wishing for an openended cyberpunk game, but it hasn't arrived yet :(

Fallout 3 feels sort of like a Morrowind/Deus Ex hybrid to me, but in a wasteland, with all it's lockpicking, computer hacking and so on. Very cool, even if the wasteland is a far less interesting place to be than a large futurisic dystopian city.

I woudn't want Bethsoft to do Deus Ex, though. They can make their own cyberpunk universe :p

Seconded.

GmanPro
14th Nov 2008, 19:24
I'd rather they just made another Elder Scrolls game.

You know, work out the kinks completely from Oblivion. Cause Fallout 3 was a lot better than Oblivion game-play wise, but it still had some elements reminiscent of Oblivion.

Until they get it completely right (the whole free-roam sandbox gaming style), I don't want them to make a flawed cyber-punk game.

Tracer Tong
15th Nov 2008, 08:11
Until they get it completely right (the whole free-roam sandbox gaming style), I don't want them to make a flawed cyber-punk game.


What's left for a getting it completely right? Destructible environment/cities (a la Megaton but dynamic) are the only thing I have in mind...

They even have dynamic radiation volume areas (try shooting a Fat Man)

GmanPro
15th Nov 2008, 08:23
No no no no no! :mad2:

That's what I don't want them to have. I don't care about the action part, they have that down just fine. In fact I think they have too much action and not enough role play.

I'm talking more about critical choices a la conversations. Meaningful decisions that change your character and other characters so that at the start of the game you are a somewhat generalized character and by the end of the game, through the choices you've made, you are a highly specialized character.

I want more depth. Oblivion, and a little bit in Fallout 3 as well, Bethesda sometimes just copies and pastes tiles into their maps. At least in their dungeons anyway. I want each dungeon to look differently and each mini quest to operate on a different mechanism.

Oblivion reminds me of GTA4, where each and every job you do is exactly the same as the last 100 jobs you've been doing. Now, Fallout 3 improved on this drastically, but there were times where i think that Bethesda just got lazy. This is why I said that they should make another elder scrolls, because I don't so much care about TES world, so they can continue to improve on their craft in another sequel. And surely after that, they will have honed their skills and knowledge to a satisfactory level to be able to make a truly awesome free-roaming sandbox style cyber-punk game. :thumbsup:

Jerion
15th Nov 2008, 08:36
More extensive character interaction, in other words. :thumbsup:

Abram730
15th Nov 2008, 13:44
Hell no. They'd put SecureROM in it.

At least they disabled the part that makes games you buy only leases(spore).

But yes I hate SecureROM... fallout 3 for the 360 was leaked about a month before you could buy it and yet it was a $300 Million Worldwide Launch. They could of hired more voice actors and cleaned up the animation...

It costs about 25 million to make a AAA game last I checked, so that's about a 12X return on their investment. Pirates are killing the industry? LMAO...umm NO!! DRM is more the threat then piracy.

I had a friend that was a pirate.. It wasn't just games that he wouldn't pay for.. I could give you a thousand examples.. he had thousands of CD's that he didn't pay for.. BMG/Columbia house... he'd order 10 CD's for $0.01 in other peoples names.. even cartoon names. 100 CD's per address.

Free phone calls on pay phones(doesn't work anymore)

He went on the slimfast diet and after he finished it he'd fill it with white flower and glue the foil back on and return it.
I could go on... He ran 8 porn sites. He was the type who had money, but did it for fun and wouldn't buy games if couldn't steal them.

I had another friend that would never get a pirate copy. I asked him what if the copies were exactly the same.. he said the pirate copy will not have the box. He'd spend $60 for a box just to do the right thing.


It's the honest people who get crapped on with DRM as it makes the pirate copies better then the retail copies.

I could think of a better way.

Psychopomp
21st Nov 2008, 05:59
The older Bioware game are absolute class IMO. Baldurs Fate, Neverwinter Nights, KOTOR, etc.

I concur.
Which is why I've had Dragon Age pre-ordered since 2005.

As for Bethesda? Keep them the **** away from my Deus Ex. They've lost all semblance of their former ability to make a deep, detailed world after they made Morrowind. They used to be amazing, but from Oblivion, onwards, they are dead in my book.

I have faith in Eidos Montreal. They have yet to prove that we can't trust them. Some of you might state "REGENERATING HEALTH," but Far Cry 2 has showed that a decent regen system is possible.

FrankCSIS
22nd Nov 2008, 08:20
If I had never played a Bethesda game, sure I might be happy with the result. As it is though, absolutely not.

Their biggest flaw so far is how incapable they are of leaving their own structure. I've just fired up Fallout 3, played a few hours, and it's amazing how much the game feels like Oblivion. Down to the beggar at the entrance of the first main city you encounter, it's a copy-cat adaptation of their previous title, modified to fit the Fallout universe. There are some awesome ideas in F3, but it just doesn't feel like Fallout (so far anyway) because of this. I'd most likely enjoy it a whole lot more if I hadn't played Oblivion.

And so with this in mind, I really couldn't stand to see another major franchise get the Bethesda treatment.

GmanPro
22nd Nov 2008, 08:40
Bethesda feels like a sports game company almost.

They did however learn from most of the mistakes they made in Oblivion. And I remain hopeful that they can turn out an even better game having learned from their Fallout 3 mistakes.

The way they design their games is fundamentally flawed imo. It feels like they want the player to just roam the environment and make up their own fun. It almost works in Oblivion, after you download about 30 mods, but it shouldn't be up to the players to finish making the game.

piippo
22nd Nov 2008, 12:58
Mass Effect was brilliant, hopefully they will fix the issues for the next iteration. Since the sidemission were good, but the places you wen't felt carboncopies, well interior had boxes in different locations. Also, I wan't to combat with SSV Normandy, spacefights. Great game. Deux Ex 3 as openworld? Well to certain extent, but you couldn't have the travel so that you walk from A to B, think about. You are in New York and will walk to Shanghai? The stripped version of this we allready had in Deus Ex.


if DX3 would be created by bethesda........ Adam would learn to moonwalk. Sad , but true.

Yep, I can't see why they can't fix those animation. I bet they don't even see such behaviour themselves.

GmanPro
22nd Nov 2008, 18:01
But ruining a franchise doesn't matter as long as there are several million puppies to buy copies, right?

Unfortunately. Sad but true.

WhatsHisFace
22nd Nov 2008, 22:04
Deus Ex is an FPS with RPG elements
Deus Ex is an RPG played from a first person perspective, with guns being on the list of weapons.

An FPS with RPG elements would be Daikatana. While you can level up your stats and weapons, you still run around at 50 mph shooting everything that moves.

sonn
22nd Nov 2008, 22:44
Actually, the reason I googled "deus ex 3" about a week ago and found this forum was because I'd basically been playing Fallout 3, and it reminded me of my experience playing invisible war.. I really hope that they'll get some good ideas from Fallout3 and try to raise the bar, not specifically the "free roaming" element of fallout environment, but mainly the character interaction, the consequence based on your actions, and the evolution of npc characters based on your decisions... I would rather see a robust element based on character AI on a smaller scale than a wast environment like fallout3.

APostLife
23rd Nov 2008, 07:39
What is 'Bethesda'. Thanks

GmanPro
23rd Nov 2008, 07:45
I actually live pretty close to Bethesda. Maybe I should try to get a job there :D

Romeo
23rd Nov 2008, 08:13
If Bethesda made Deus Ex 3, this game would already be sold out in pre-orders. People tend to be very trusting towards Bethesda, as they only release one game at a time, so virtually they dedicate all the information learned from previous titles to further their next game. Similarly it also makes it easier for fans to give them information for the next games.

GmanPro
23rd Nov 2008, 19:01
And yet they always seem to make the same game.

Jerion
23rd Nov 2008, 19:05
And yet they always seem to make the same game.

Because they aren't willing to take risks. ;)

GmanPro
23rd Nov 2008, 20:11
And why should they when Fallout 3 made over $300 million?

Although... Fallout 3 did sell much more than Oblivion, so maybe they will try even more new things with their next game in the hopes that it will make more moneyzz.

Fallout 3 was so different from its predecessors, Elder Scrolls V: Fallout might have been a more appropriate title.

sonn
23rd Nov 2008, 21:57
Meh.. I couldn't stand Oblivion to play it more than a week. Yet I think Fallout 3 is the best game of the year. So, yes, they are different, imo. not the game mechanics, but the game as a whole...

imported_van_HellSing
23rd Nov 2008, 22:15
Meh.. I couldn't stand Oblivion to play it more than a week. Yet I think Fallout 3 is the best game of the year. So, yes, they are different, imo. not the game mechanics, but the game as a whole...

Ditto. I loved Morrowind, then Oblivion was a big letdown, now Fallout 3 seems a return to form for Bethesda.

Tracer Tong
23rd Nov 2008, 22:24
Ditto. I loved Morrowind, then Oblivion was a big letdown, now Fallout 3 seems a return to form for Bethesda.

Completely agree. MW is 10/10, rivaling only DX1 in its greatness.

GmanPro
23rd Nov 2008, 22:30
I agree. MW was pure class. Although I wouldn't put it in second place behind DX on my top 10 list. But its there... somewhere.

Oblivion was better only in graphics and the abundance of mods. MW just felt much more balanced and deep.

imported_van_HellSing
23rd Nov 2008, 22:37
It wasn't just the gameplay either. There was a certain almost mystical aura to Morrowind. It felt otherwordly and alien, but somehow believable, like actually visiting a distant land and getting immersed into the culture. By comparison, Oblivion felt like a plastic fantasy theme park.

FrankCSIS
24th Nov 2008, 03:16
And why should they when Fallout 3 made over $300 million?

Because, perhaps, I know this sounds crazy, incomes and sales don't mean everything.

Besides, the direct correlation between money and success is easy to make, but it's a reasoning that will take you down with it. Always has, always will.

Creating an hegemony to avoid taking risks is always very dangerous in the long run, both for the actual incomes and, more importantly, for the integrity of the work in general. Every day you don't take risks, every day you don't innovate, is a waste of time. And time, in business like everywhere else, is the most valuable resource of all.

The day someone starts designing engines around a story, instead of patching a story to an existing engine, will be one of change and wonders for all. I still think the industry doesn't fully understand the actual purpose of the art they produce.

Romeo
24th Nov 2008, 04:38
And yet they always seem to make the same game.
Well, Fallout 3 is fairly different than Oblivion, and even Oblivion to Morrowind has some drastic differences. But it's not like they can completely re-design their game anyways, they're a sword-and-shield type of game. And do remember that they tried to change many aspects of Morrowind when they made Oblivion, and fan and critic reception was terrible as a result (although it sold well). Another reason they wont re-design the game, is because they already have a successful formula, and because they can apply their mod tools to the style they've created, which sells enough units all on it's own.

GmanPro
24th Nov 2008, 04:50
Their formula is far from perfect. A free roam sandbox style game can be really fun. We saw this with Morrowind, but then they just went off in the wrong direction with Oblivion imo. And it feels like they just tried to fix that formula instead of going with something better in Fallout 3. FO3 was a step in the right direction but they could have done it so much better. Bottom line is, as long as they continue to receive constructive criticism from their fans, their games will continue to get better. So I'm gonna keep criticizing them :thumbsup: