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Lady_Of_The_Vine
26th Oct 2008, 22:11
I don't think we have a thread to discuss the future demo release. :)

As some of us have doubts about how the game mechanics of DX3 will work/feel, a playable demo (closer to release date) will hopefully be an opportunity for us to try out the game before we buy.

So, what do you hope to experience whilst playing the demo?

I'm assuming we will play as Adam and will either be at the start of the first mission in the game or find ourselves inside the training level.
If this is the case, what do you want to experience from either of these two scenarios? For example, combat, stealth, exploration etc, or ALL aspects of game play.

Perhaps you have a better suggestion for what the demo content should be/include?

Maybe you prefer a completely exclusive Adam demo that has absolutely nothing to do with the final release, so as not to present any form of spoiler?
Perhaps you think it is best to play the ENTIRE training level for a better idea of what is to come?


Whatever you want, or don't want... share in here. :)

EDIT (25 March 09):

Another question is if a playable demo is going to be made, WHEN do you think it should be released? :)

Decard
26th Oct 2008, 22:21
Don't you EVAR say that name again!























Alex, LOL :p

Flobulon
26th Oct 2008, 22:26
Haha yeah, you might want to do a quick edit MrsP :D

Anyway, I personally would love a completely different level made just for the purpose of the demo, so as not to spoil anything (assuming the plot is worth not spoiling). I however highly doubt this will happen. We'll probably just be stuck with the first/second level.

Lady_Of_The_Vine
26th Oct 2008, 22:26
LMAO, if that's not a Freudian slip, I don't know what is! :o

Just call me a "subconscious hardcore" fan. ;) :cool:


.. I edited, sorry... hehe. :D

DXeXodus
27th Oct 2008, 04:09
I don't think they will make a demo available before the release of the game. Eidos Montreal have, in all honesty, made some very controversial decisions just like the DX2 team did. Now, if we look at what happened when the DX2 demo came out we can expect all sorts of outrage from unhappy fans. So many people canceled their pre-orders as a result. I think it would do more harm than good in all honesty.

I swear if Deus Ex 3 ends up failing I am running very far away from these forums. :D

mr_cyberpunk
27th Oct 2008, 04:28
the fact that they won't release a demo just shows how profit hungry the publisher is.

You do realize that the Demo of Deus Ex 1 was the very reason I bought the game right? Hows about EM take that feedback on board.

Also the fact that fewer and fewer companies are releasing demos just shows that they're a bunch of cowards.. When I do end up running my own studio later in my career I know my games will be good enough to send out for free Demo to all my potential customers since I know I won't have anything to fear.

Plus you're encouraging piracy by not giving people a demo to test the water because majority of people who do pirate will do so because of a lack of playable demo.

Tracer Tong
27th Oct 2008, 09:24
I swear if Deus Ex 3 ends up failing I am running very far away from these forums. :D

Seconded.

DXeXodus
27th Oct 2008, 09:28
Lol. But I have different reasons. My reason is that it will be like Crimsonland over here. I will be the little soldier trying to do my job and the masses will eventually overwhelm me :D

Patakreps
27th Oct 2008, 09:58
Sorry to bring this subject on the table :whistle:, but Eidos should release the game's demo before its released date because I think that it greatly helps against some kind of piracy. You see, there's two kind of pirate in the world (of the Internet), those who will pirate whatever happens because they just don't want to pay for the game and those who will pirate because :

1) They are not sure that this is their kind of game, especialy since that Deus Ex is very different from other shooters in the market.

2) Some are worried about the question "Will this game ever run on my PC? ".

3) Intrusives DRMs with no guarantie for the game to be playable years after release (the publisher goes bankrupt or whatever reasons).

4) Others reasons.

Even if a significant number of the first kind of pirates will present themself as the second kind of pirates, there is some gamers who are actually concerned with the points above. I think that Eidos can't help with the first kind of pirates, but to release a demo before the game's released date or should I say, before that the pirated copy of the game is published on the Internet, will greatly reduce the number of the second kind of pirates who feel concerned with the points 1, 2 and 4.

I hope that you understand that I do not support piracy in any way, but it seems to me that these days publishers are less used to make a demo of their games than before and justify it with bad reasons. For exemple, Ubisoft said that Assassin's Creed couldn't have a demo version because of the sandbox nature of their game. Anyone who have played Assassin's Creed knows that this is completely wrong. In this case, for most PC gamers, Assassin's Creed demo version appeared to be the pirated copy of the game.

El_Bel
27th Oct 2008, 10:24
I don't think they will make a demo available before the release of the game. Eidos Montreal have, in all honesty, made some very controversial decisions just like the DX2 team did. Now, if we look at what happened when the DX2 demo came out we can expect all sorts of outrage from unhappy fans. So many people canceled their pre-orders as a result. I think it would do more harm than good in all honesty.

I swear if Deus Ex 3 ends up failing I am running very far away from these forums. :D

There is a simple solution if they dont release a demo. It is called torrents and if the game is good i'll buy it.

DXeXodus
27th Oct 2008, 10:31
Don't make me get all retentive and post the piracy promotion rule from the Eidos Terms Of Use.

El_Bel
27th Oct 2008, 10:37
Well if they dont release a demo, how the heck are we going to check if the game is good or if it plays well on my pc? Thats what the demo is for.

DXeXodus
27th Oct 2008, 10:44
I'm just saying. Piracy isn't something we condone on this forum. In any form whatsoever. I'm not trying to pick a fight by the way, just doing my job. :)

Lady_Of_The_Vine
27th Oct 2008, 11:34
Wait! :eek:

Is there an *official* declaration that there will definitely NOT be a playable demo? :scratch:

Only, if not.... should we feel the need to panic, just yet? http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc159/eternaltreasure/chewnails.gif:o

DXeXodus
27th Oct 2008, 12:22
Exactly. People are really jumping the gun here.

Officer Half
27th Oct 2008, 13:09
I don't think we have a thread to discuss the future demo release. :)

As some of us have doubts about how the game mechanics of DX3 will work/feel, a playable demo (closer to release date) will hopefully be an opportunity for us to try out the game before we buy.

So, what do you hope to experience whilst playing the demo?

I'm assuming we will play as Adam and will either be at the start of the first mission in the game or find ourselves inside the training level.
If this is the case, what do you want to experience from either of these two scenarios? For example, combat, stealth, exploration etc, or ALL aspects of game play.

Perhaps you have a better suggestion for what the demo content should be/include?

Maybe you prefer a completely exclusive Adam demo that has absolutely nothing to do with the final release, so as not to present any form of spoiler?
Perhaps you think it is best to play the ENTIRE training level for a better idea of what is to come?


Whatever you want, or don't want... share in here. :)

A training level that has nothing to do with the plot. In the original DX1 you came into the game augmented. (Remember the little flashlight in your head?) This game, I don't think we will. I don't want to ruin any surprises by having an augmentation training level. So I vote for a normal training level. Maybe like a mandatory fitness test for security guards?

I think that the augmentation training might come in the middle of the game anyway, If a few of my theories are right.

(And on a side note? I actually liked IW. I understand that it isn't as good as the first, but I still loved playing it.)

Mr. Perfect
28th Oct 2008, 00:15
I don't think they will make a demo available before the release of the game. Eidos Montreal have, in all honesty, made some very controversial decisions just like the DX2 team did. Now, if we look at what happened when the DX2 demo came out we can expect all sorts of outrage from unhappy fans. So many people canceled their pre-orders as a result. I think it would do more harm than good in all honesty.

I swear if Deus Ex 3 ends up failing I am running very far away from these forums. :D

But, in all honesty, that's what demos are for. If an individual doesn't like what they see, it costs them nothing and move on. If people have to spend a non-refundable $50+ dollars to find out that they don't like the game, they're going to be seriously pissed. THEN you run away form the forums. :D

DXeXodus
28th Oct 2008, 03:45
Lol. :lol: True.

But I am just saying that that it is probably the main reason that a developer wouldn't issue a demo for their game. Especially before initial release.

Tracer Tong
28th Oct 2008, 06:12
They should hire many QAs and release an initial review version for reviewers (what led to the fall of Fallout 3, namely, its leak)

They're already on the right track, they had their Proof of Concept stage and they passed it.

mr_cyberpunk
28th Oct 2008, 09:44
Lol. :lol: True.

But I am just saying that that it is probably the main reason that a developer wouldn't issue a demo for their game. Especially before initial release.

You realize that Invisible War had a demo. People still thought it was alright.. People still bought the game didn't they? Some people even liked it. I however felt it didn't live up to the brand name, same goes with SnowBlind (even that had a Demo :P).

DXeXodus
28th Oct 2008, 09:50
I know it had a demo. I have acknowledged that already. I am not saying I don't want a demo. In fact, I really do want a demo. All I am saying is that if you look back at what happened when the Invisible War demo came out you will see why a developer wouldn't want to release one before the game is released.

The company lost so many pre orders as a result. Once again, I am not saying I don't want a demo. Just to be nice and clear. :)

spm1138
28th Oct 2008, 09:54
I'm just saying. Piracy isn't something we condone on this forum. In any form whatsoever. I'm not trying to pick a fight by the way, just doing my job. :)

That illustrates how people think these days though.

No demo only encourages that line of thinking.

It also looks really suspect. It's like films not screened for critics.

Controversial design decisions are an excellent reason to release a demo.

1) Make cool game
2) Release demo showing that the decisions made work
3) ????
4) Profit

mr_cyberpunk
28th Oct 2008, 09:54
@ DXeXodus: But you're justifying why they should.. and also Pre-Orders? that's SOO misleading to consumers.. if the game sucks I want to know about it in advance. Of course these days the industry relies on biased Reviews by Gamespot and IGN for that.. No need for Demos anymore when you've got trained monkeys telling people what its like. Its all about Money now.. Not about the art itself!

DXeXodus
28th Oct 2008, 09:59
I know that. I am merely commenting on what happened with Deus Ex 2: Invisible War. Stating fact. It isn't even opinion.

You are really misunderstanding me here.

Lady_Of_The_Vine
28th Oct 2008, 10:47
I've purchased an equal amount of games with a demo, and without one.
For me to not buy a game based on the playing of its demo - that game had to be seriously bad. And I mean seriously bad - even DX:IW didn't fall into this category for me. I actually liked some elements of IW, even though it fell short of what I loved about DX1. So, demo or not, I would of still purchased the game.

I have absolute faith in EM and I very much doubt that DX3 will be utter cr@p.... different, yes, but independent/different isn't anything to be ashamed of or worry about. Hey, I actually like 'different'... :p ;)

So, I hope there is a demo. I hope the devs feel very proud of what they have achieved/made. :cool: :thumbsup:

DXeXodus
28th Oct 2008, 10:58
I also really hope that there is a demo. I just cannot wait to play this game. I really respect Eidos Montreal for taking the bold steps which they have. Not to say that I agree with every single choice they have made so far, but I am interested to see how those choices become realized.

mr_cyberpunk
28th Oct 2008, 12:01
I've noticed that the industry at the moment is taking this whole Leap of Faith policy with nearly everything. The idea that you can trick consumers into thinking something is great, build up their faith in the product and brand, then they buy it and all that dreaming and waiting suddenly leaves a bitter taste.

Spore was the last game that did this to me. Now Spore did have a demo yes.. but it didn't display any of the GAMEPLAY that would be in the full version. For a demo it was amazing.. for a game though it was terrible- a trick.

The key to a successful demo, simple. Put them right in the middle of the game (not at the start and not near the end, just BAM right in the middle, give them no idea or clue as to what the hell they are doing). The reason why I say this is because the middle of the game is usually where the Gameplay is at its high point, its like with a novel or film the best parts are always in the middle.

The best things that I find about Demos is that they basically give you the chance to get feedback on the game before you even go gold with it, its like market research. So if the Demo is bad, you can at least salvage the game from being a total commercial flop.. Why more developers don't do this is beyond me.. so many games could have done soo well but instead flopped.

Once a game goes gold then you're basically praying all goes well.

One thing I still don't get about this industry is why all the secrecy? why the need for NDAs? I mean seriously, all games are related to each other in some way- its just how the industry has evolved- hence the whole RTS,RPG,FPS ect ect Genres. Game companies should just seriously stop being so afraid and open up a bit. I know why they do it though, its the whole criticism thing- once someone criticizes something it stops becoming cool.

Bethesda were good at screwing this up, the covered up Fallout 3 for AGES.. no screenshots, footage, NOTHING! they just hyped with loads of Teasers..

When gameplay did come along.. Well we know what happened.. NMA happened. They went crazy with anger because Bethesda basically failed to prove their concept was doing the brand justice. Lets not forget that Fallout is one of the industry's most important games, it was one of the games that launched Brian Fargo's career, it founded Interplay as a serious publisher (one of the biggest throughout the 1990s). All they had to do was release a Demo, which they had, they were showing it off at E3.. Why then did they not release that?!

Unfortunately I don't see this getting any better.

EA has been talking about System Shock 3 and a new Syndicate. Both of these games launched two legends of the industry's careers, Warren Spector and Peter Molyneux.

I seriously hate seeing good classic games that invented the industry desecrated in pursuit of a quick buck.. No more leap of faith sales. Is no franchise scared anymore?!

spm1138
28th Oct 2008, 13:47
Fallout 3. Hmm.

Finished product:
http://www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/ps3/fallout3
http://www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/pc/fallout3
http://www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/xbox360/fallout3

Everyone loves it. It turned out great, 'spergin nerd ragin' interwebs forums notwithstanding.

If they'd had a demo out I suppose people could have seen it was working out in advance.


One thing I still don't get about this industry is why all the secrecy? why the need for NDAs? I mean seriously, all games are related to each other in some way- its just how the industry has evolved- hence the whole RTS,RPG,FPS ect ect Genres. Game companies should just seriously stop being so afraid and open up a bit.

It's partly because if you show off early WIP before you can really see it in a together state it doesn't look that impressive (there's a lot of work goes into a game that doesn't result in any real eye candy) and partly so other companies don't steal your ideas.

What is Spector doing nowadays? Last I heard he was working for Disney.

Bluey71
28th Oct 2008, 16:55
I don't think we have a thread to discuss the future demo release. :)

As some of us have doubts about how the game mechanics of DX3 will work/feel, a playable demo (closer to release date) will hopefully be an opportunity for us to try out the game before we buy.

So, what do you hope to experience whilst playing the demo?

I'm assuming we will play as Adam and will either be at the start of the first mission in the game or find ourselves inside the training level.
If this is the case, what do you want to experience from either of these two scenarios? For example, combat, stealth, exploration etc, or ALL aspects of game play.

Perhaps you have a better suggestion for what the demo content should be/include?

Maybe you prefer a completely exclusive Adam demo that has absolutely nothing to do with the final release, so as not to present any form of spoiler?
Perhaps you think it is best to play the ENTIRE training level for a better idea of what is to come?


Whatever you want, or don't want... share in here. :)

Its real nice to see so many ppl on the same wavelength re the demo level - I too dont wish for any plot spoilers at all. EM have told us that there will be multiple ways to complete an objective - so I say the demo should be the training level, with the usual press this for that, press that for this etc. Ending in a short objective that can be completed multiple ways.




the fact that they won't release a demo just shows how profit hungry the publisher is.

You do realize that the Demo of Deus Ex 1 was the very reason I bought the game right? Hows about EM take that feedback on board.

Also the fact that fewer and fewer companies are releasing demos just shows that they're a bunch of cowards.. When I do end up running my own studio later in my career I know my games will be good enough to send out for free Demo to all my potential customers since I know I won't have anything to fear.

Plus you're encouraging piracy by not giving people a demo to test the water because majority of people who do pirate will do so because of a lack of playable demo.

I think everyone will have noticed the lack of demo's these days. I think what you have said could well be a part of the reason yes - but I also think a games length is a deciding factor ie lots of games are pretty damn short these days.

mr_cyberpunk
28th Oct 2008, 21:58
in a together state it doesn't look that impressive (there's a lot of work goes into a game that doesn't result in any real eye candy) and partly so other companies don't steal your ideas.

Yes that's true, basic prototypes though shouldn't be demoed. Stealing ideas? um if you haven't noticed EVERY game ever made has done that. Its called trends.

I think NDAs in the practical sense are put in place to protect the technologies and the IPs- I've signed many before, they're just there to stop employees doing the wrong thing by the company.. however the secrecy thing just doesn't make a lot of sense when you consider that no game stays original for long. Just goes to show how profit focused the industry is, I'm more for variety, there are always cases where people will do things differently, an example would be Saints Row (THQ) vs GTA (R*), these games are similar but they are good at their own things and were developed at the same time. Both will probably sell well.. so I don't see what the point is.

If you're game is good, people will buy it.

Lady_Of_The_Vine
28th Oct 2008, 22:00
So, Fallout 3 never had a demo... correct? :scratch:
Only this game doesn't appear to have suffered from the lack of one... :cool:

mr_cyberpunk
28th Oct 2008, 22:54
Only this game doesn't appear to have suffered from the lack of one...

Trust me it has. They've probably lost several millions of dollars as a result of them not releasing a demo for people to try and see if they like the game.

Lady_Of_The_Vine
28th Oct 2008, 23:08
Trust me it has. They've probably lost several millions of dollars as a result of them not releasing a demo for people to try and see if they like the game.

Okay, but when you say probably LOST several millions... is that a figure that also relates to pre-orders and do you think that people haven't and won't buy the game 'just because there was/is no demo'?

I see the fresh/current game reviews are scoring it very high (10/10 from OXM, for example) - surely this will go a long way to convincing fans that the game is worth buying? What the devs didn't get in possible 'pre-orders' will now realistically be attained from existing and new orders. Correct? :o

spm1138
28th Oct 2008, 23:22
um if you haven't noticed EVERY game ever made has done that. Its called trends.

Yes and no.

Yes, eventually it is inevitable.

No, it is not automatic while a game is still in development.

What you don't want is another game to nick your killer feature or really awesome way of implementing something and come out before or at the same time as your game.

People do still have new ideas from time to time :D

Fingers crossed for DX3 to have a few features worth stealing :thumbsup:


Trust me it has. They've probably lost several millions of dollars as a result of them not releasing a demo for people to try and see if they like the game.

I dunno if I'd guess a dollar figure, but I agree with you that what you don't want is people with pre-orders and people thinking of pre-ordering going looking for the DIY demo because then you're on the honour system.

On the bright side for FO3 it's a big game so only the most dedicated poopsocker will be finishing it before their pre-order arrives.

Lady_Of_The_Vine
1st Nov 2008, 10:34
Well, I certainly hope that EM releases a demo. I can't see it realistically doing any harm to sales. :)

Laokin
1st Nov 2008, 12:25
I'm just saying. Piracy isn't something we condone on this forum. In any form whatsoever. I'm not trying to pick a fight by the way, just doing my job. :)

Not for nothing, but -- when you buy a car, you get to test drive it. When you buy a house... you get to walk around inside it. No matter what, 99.99% of all products available, that are non consumable, have some sort of "try it before you buy it" model. This current phase in PC gaming is sad. In the day and age when the system requirements on a box (even if you have the RECOMMENDED Specs) don't amount to squat (see Spiderman Web of Shadows, I WELL exceed both sets posted on the box, yet the game is virtually unplayable), does Eidos really expect us to all blindly purchase their game because they say "We're Honest.... Honest!"???

This is just ridiculous to even say. Why would anybody purchase a product before they had the opportunity to see if they can even "use" the product. You know what that's called? Extortion, which is yes.... Illegal. You know what happens when there are system reqs on a box... and you meet/exceed all printings, and the game doesn't run PERFECTLY? You run the risk of being sued.... WHICH YOU WILL LOSE, for false advertising.

I don't wanna hear any counter arguments unless you have a real point to make. I for one, and I'm sure most of the community here, am SICK with corporations walking all over their consumers. The worst part.... They expect us to still give them respect and put MY MONEY... the MONEY I WORKED HARD FOR, in the pockets of a corporation that didn't work hard, and probably vacationed half of their dev time on an UNFINISHED game. Plain and simple... I'm not condoning piracy, but the fact is... we are left with no other choice, PERIOD.

If Eidos really doesn't want to condone piracy... logic would tell you to launch every counter measure you can against the REASONS people pirate and not the pirates themselves. Look at blizzard, they said almost nobody pirated Diablo II, they realize the people who did pirate it would have never bought it anyway, which means they lose NO money. They also said, the best counter to piracy is a QUALITY PRODUCT. You have to present a product that is worth investing 60$ in. Games that are the same thing rinse and repeat with no depth ALA gears of war... are destined for piracy. If your game is monotonous who is going to wanna buy it? If you sell cars, and you have a slow ugly cramped compact car that eats LOTS of gas, and cost the same as a civic hybrid.... who is gonna want to buy it? The FACT here... is you have to make games for YOUR market. The sad thing is, this industry is content with making garbage games... then they try to stop piracy by implementing services like Sony's securom, which is actually illegal, that only hurts the consumer. Every DRM game that's been made has been cracked. It doesn't matter if it's Securom, Tages, SafeDisc.... they have all been cracked, yet the honest consumers are being punished with limited installs which effectively serve as a "lease." If you for one second think you own any game with DRM in it, your mistaken. Also what happens when the DRM servers go down? They would have to issue a patch or a *gosh* should I say it... a CRACK, just to be able to play the game. If the company goes under, who is going to make this patch? You guessed it... PIRATES. There is no effective way to battle piracy by doing combat with hackers. Everything can be reverse engineered, and is in fact protected by law. With that said, it's impossible to beat the crackers. The only solution is to produce a product that people actually WANT to buy, for an AFFORDABLE price. If game Dev's dropped ALL games to the price of $29.99 they would make MUCH more money, they would move more units. It's pretty simple math really. For every action there is an opposite action. For every greedy person, there is a stingy person to go with him. It's pretty clear, that the owners of these studios want MEGA money, so they cut the cost of production... or FUND it too much, with higher expectations of making more money back. For instance, the developers make a decent living... well rather "comfortable." The owner of Eidos is probably a billionaire. If he were to cut the price for the game, spend a little more making it and just be happy being rich... instead of pursuing billions(which you cannot spend.... EVER, unless you gave it away or bought half the globe) then pirates wouldn't exist either. Piracy is caused by the industry, not the people. There is only a handful of game crackers in the world, and I personally tracked down Reloaded and Darkc0der. If I was able to find them, surely Eidos can. So Eidos can just quit their *****ing about piracy and get off their lazy asses and stop it. Instead, they are all apathetic... because it cost money to stop it. The industry is killing itself with morons like Cliffy B, who said GoW2 wouldn't come to PC because it would be pirated... yet the 360 exclusive title is floating around on the internet a whole month before release and within the first week downloaded over 800,000 times. How was it available a month early if it wasn't the industry that leaked it? I rest my case.

P.S.
Tomb Raider: Underworld is a prime example of Eidos ripping off the PC gaming community. That "Demo" was hardly playable. While it ran fine, it's not worth a penny... it's of considerable less quality than any game I know of released under the name "Eidos." I for one am GLAD they released a demo, now I KNOW I won't be purchasing that game... let alone pirating it.... It's just a waste of HD space.

P.S.S.
How in the fudge did they get away with releasing a demo for a game that has OBVIOUSLY never been through a REAL QA test environment? Also, don't assume everyone here is naive, more people than you realize understand in depth the process of making games and the phases of testing they should be "Required" to go through before putting something as atrocious as TRU on the shelf.

If you wanna see facts about why the game is terrible (yes facts, things that aren't a matter of opinion.... if bugs are there, they are indeed fact.)
Check out my thread on the TRU:Demo forums here. http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?p=874931#post874931

P.S.S.S.
This makes me nervous for the release of DX3, since it's on the same game engine as TRU. The only good thing about this engine is.... it runs smooth. Unfortunately, everything else is pretty sad.

Jerion
1st Nov 2008, 12:55
^^^

Wow, um...

The game engine has almost nothing to with the final game. It's just a foundation for the game to be built on top of. The content of the game is where it counts, and DX 3 and TRU are nothing alike.

Physics. Animations. Hitboxes. Terrain. Shaders. Textures. DoF. Motion Blur. Speech. Weapons. Health. Powerups. Movement. Maps. Deaths. Interactions. Stealth. AI. Missions. Scripts. Cutscenes.

All of those, and then some, are in the Content. TRU being a less-than desirable game does not reflect poorly on DX 3.

Put your nervousness for the release for DX 3 aside. ;)

I agree that TRU leaves a lot to be desired.

As far as the test-driving & requirements thing...It is reasonable to see if you can use the product before you buy it. However, The system requirements posted on the box are, if I'm not mistaken, always the base system requirements for the game engine. They use these requirements, because it is a practical impossibility to test the PC game's performance on the millions of possible setups. It's more that the studio wants to give you a solid baseline, rather than a iffy guess at what might or might not work properly. It sucks sometimes, but a good rule of thumb is to look at the requirements, and if you have at least 1.5x the minimum needed RAM and a video card at least a generation newer than what it says on the box, you're probably good to go.

-K :)

spm1138
1st Nov 2008, 15:31
Calm down. They didn't say there wouldn't be a demo yet :rasp:

edit
System reqs are to be taken with a pinch of salt.

They have been a little shared joke between the publisher and the gamer since time immemorial.

Laokin
1st Nov 2008, 19:48
^^^

Wow, um...

The game engine has almost nothing to with the final game. It's just a foundation for the game to be built on top of. The content of the game is where it counts, and DX 3 and TRU are nothing alike.

Physics. Animations. Hitboxes. Terrain. Shaders. Textures. DoF. Motion Blur. Speech. Weapons. Health. Powerups. Movement. Maps. Deaths. Interactions. Stealth. AI. Missions. Scripts. Cutscenes.

All of those, and then some, are in the Content. TRU being a less-than desirable game does not reflect poorly on DX 3.

Put your nervousness for the release for DX 3 aside. ;)

I agree that TRU leaves a lot to be desired.

As far as the test-driving & requirements thing...It is reasonable to see if you can use the product before you buy it. However, The system requirements posted on the box are, if I'm not mistaken, always the base system requirements for the game engine. They use these requirements, because it is a practical impossibility to test the PC game's performance on the millions of possible setups. It's more that the studio wants to give you a solid baseline, rather than a iffy guess at what might or might not work properly. It sucks sometimes, but a good rule of thumb is to look at the requirements, and if you have at least 1.5x the minimum needed RAM and a video card at least a generation newer than what it says on the box, you're probably good to go.

-K :)


No, there is Required system reqs, and Recommended system reqs, the recommended system reqs is what the dev recommends for smooth performance. I have bought numerous games in which my PC WELL exceeded both sets on the box and had it play with like 15 - 20 fps, no matter the settings. Like I said, I have a C2D 3.16 4gbs of ram and a 9800GX2, and spiderman web of shadows chugalugalugs along like I'm just below min spec. Mind you, there aren't even any graphics options. Only v-Sync. If you download 1.1, the game freezes every time in numerous spots, so the patch is game breaking. Hell, the patch they released was in an rar from seizecontrol.com and the rar is corrupt. It's like performing magic just to install it. You would think they'd fix it and repost -- here we are about 2 weeks if memory serves and still they just left the game broken. How are they not responsible?

Aslo, yes the engine matter very very very much so. The "features" of a game are programmed into the engine. GoW uses a cover system, so if someone were to build a game off the GoW iteration of the unreal engine... and they used a cover system -- you can imagine they aren't going to touch it. The animation glitches and the physics making mistakes are all part of the engine... not principal code that they add. Most people think a game engine is the just the Graphics render tech, in fact it's much much more. The engine will default values aswell, and when making a game built on a pre-existing engine it's pretty challenging to not forget to change certain things. CoD 5 still feels like Quake 3 Arena. That's largely because it's actually on the Quake 3 arena engine, they just heavily beefed up the Render Technology. It's so aparent from the carrots ^1 being colors in your name, down to the phone jack icon that gets displayed when you time out. All things that are 1:1 with Quake 3 Arena. There is also seemingly no physics in Call of Duty World at War. I have the MP beta, when you kill people it's like the soldier of fortune series. You blow a leg off the guy grabs his leg as he falls. This is also seemingly a remnant of the Quake 3 engine, since SoF:Double Helix was in fact built on the Q3A engine. Doom 3, and quake 4.... still the quake 3 engine, even though Carmack refers to it as the doom 3 engine. It's just an updated version to keep with the times... how updated?? Practically none at all since the only thing they touched was the Renderer. The netcode is 1:1 with Q3A with the anti-lag prediction mod from the later patch. The engine you build your game on matters very much so and there is a reason that games built on the same engine always feel alike. This is the reason why I'm afraid for DX3, also for the fact that Eidos is it's publisher. (ya know the same company that is publishing TRU) Alot of game decisions come from the publisher and are later filtered down to the developers.

I'm pretty well educated on this subject -- it's even more apparent if you've ever been on a mod team or had a look at the SDK for games on the same engine. It's very conceivable that there are glitches with the engine itself and not with the animations or the programmers input for the animations. Unless you have an open source version of the TRU demo, it's impossible to say... but the rule of thumb is usually Buggy Engine = Buggy Games built on that engine.

Oh and yeah... I'm well aware that he wasn't saying we aren't getting a demo. I was stating my feelings on this revoltution thats going on with the developers accusing everyone of piracy and this and that and this and that... all they do is whine like a bunch of babies when it's their own fault AND it doesn't cost them as much as they make it out to be. This is a fact as well. Numerous dev's including EA and Blizzard have come out and said that piracy is really almost a non issue. Other however stick to their guns and accuse people and complain, when in fact they aren't making the revenue because the games they make just simply suck. **cough cough** Kane and Lynch.

P.S.
Have a run over at the Red Alert 3 official forums to see how ridiculous they are. They are actually trying to dupe and manipulate people on that forum to see who has a retail or a pirated copy..... like the person who pirated it is the problem. It's like cops arresting people for doing drugs.... it's just pointless. It's a waste of time and money, people will always do drugs if there is a supply -- people will always pirate games if there is a crack. You want piracy to stop, leave the consumers alone and focus on A.) The people who work at your own company leaking it out. B.) The crack teams that are crack (which is not illegal) then UPLOAD (that's the illegal part) so the rest of the people can download it. Leave me out of it and quit threatening me. They made such a big deal about it that President Bush signed the Pro-IP Act to try to save the revenue that's not missing for the corporations... which in fact is only going to hurt the corporations as much as the consumers. See what happens when you whine and whine and whine and cry wolf -- since everyone believes now that piracy is stealing millions from these developers there is no changing minds how ever untrue it is. We all get punished, GG video game industry.

Ketchup
1st Nov 2008, 20:17
I don't think they will make a demo available before the release of the game. Eidos Montreal have, in all honesty, made some very controversial decisions just like the DX2 team did. Now, if we look at what happened when the DX2 demo came out we can expect all sorts of outrage from unhappy fans. So many people canceled their pre-orders as a result. I think it would do more harm than good in all honesty.

I swear if Deus Ex 3 ends up failing I am running very far away from these forums. :D

I agree with DXeXodus on this. First they made a game that went way ahead to after the collapse, now they are going back to before nano tech. They say that they want to please the original DX fans but in the end they just seemed confused about what dx fans really want. I hope i dont speak only for a few of us when i say that people were expecting JC denton to the be lead of the 2nd Deus Ex. I was expecting it would be a sequel to the original. Seems to me that Eidos is just using the Deus Ex title to make more money. Why couldn't they just do what half life did by allowing the original character to remain the lead all the way through the series?

I will say from what i read DX3 does sound cool, the new augmentations, being able to punch through walls, all very interesting things, as with dx2 i found the augs to be quite unique and fun (especially the black market augmentations) and there were certain things about the games that were quite unique, but still very different from the original.

The only people that seem to be doing the game justice are the modders, mods like The Nameless Mod, Men In Black, and Deus Ex HDTP. They are taking the original game and making it better. Some of the storylines are actually set right after the collapse. Deus Ex HDTP is taking the original weapons and characters and remaking them. I really think that if there were enough modders and mappers left in the original Deus Ex community, that if they got together, they could make a great Deus Ex 3.

I'll just tell you my idea of what should have happened with DX3, lets for the sake of connection eliminate DX2 and say it doesn't count, therefore calling DX3 the sequel to DX 1. First of all, when you first load the game, the orginal dx logo shows up, maybe modified by a better engine to look alot better, (perhaps im just suggesting)

Then, after all the logos fade, a menu would appear, then upon hitting "new game" and it would do a recap. After recap is finished, showing bits and pieces of each ending perhaps, the game would ask which ending you chose. Then a new intro would begin with whatever sanction you chose to side with.
At the end of Deus Ex 1, there was many many different endings and countless possibilities to ways in which the story could continue to unfold. DX2 destroyed all those possibilities by setting the game in a place way beyond what we were shown before. Now DX3 is going to take us in another direction, to a place way before what we were shown. Now one thing i can say that DX2 did right is that the story does kinda tie into the original, but theres so many mistakes in the gameplay, so many things they took out.


Anyways im done my rant. As i wrote this i realized that even Deus Ex could have been done better giving more choice as to whether you wanted to stay with Unatco or NSF. Im just throwing some ideas out there to you guys. Just saying theres so much that could be centered around the original game, choices that could have been made that were not allowed. Seems nowadays the game developers are sacrificing storyline for graphics, its pretty lame. sorry i wrote so much. Happy Reading

Bluey71
3rd Nov 2008, 16:42
I have absolute faith in EM and I very much doubt that DX3 will be utter cr@p.... different, yes, but independent/different isn't anything to be ashamed of or worry about. Hey, I actually like 'different'... :p ;)

So, I hope there is a demo. I hope the devs feel very proud of what they have achieved/made. :cool: :thumbsup:

Different isnt what everybody is worried about. Folks are worried about the game down being dumbed down to attract a wider audiance ie

third person elements + third person every time you use an aug

Ridiculous aug names (Im hoping those are just working titles)

Non lethal takedowns - a core element of DX1 gameplay, no confirmation of this yet

Self regenerating health

Combat not being influenced by stats *F P S*

I dont think DX3 will be cr@p either - but will it be a DX game...

Unstoppable
4th Nov 2008, 00:47
If the demo will delay the launch of the game by more than 2 weeks I don't want one. Rather have the game 2 weeks early.

Lady_Of_The_Vine
25th Mar 2009, 13:34
Now that we have some further information on the game - any new ideas for what the demo should include? :)
When do you think one should be released?

Jerion
25th Mar 2009, 16:03
I think one should be released a month or two before the game ships.

IOOI
25th Mar 2009, 16:36
I think one should be released a month or two before the game ships.

Yep, that sounds reasonable. I liked the DX demo with the training part first and then going into action in a level where you could be able to experiment different approaches. In the end cut scene you should enter some important building or find some augmented body part, that should be enough to tease and create expectations.


EDIT: If the devs have doubts about the game they should release a demo in November. That way they would have time to correct something if needed until release in May-July 2010.

GmanPro
25th Mar 2009, 16:40
I never played the DX demo. I did play the Thief: The Dark Project demo a long time ago. It made me want to play the rest of the game soooo bad.

Ashpolt
25th Mar 2009, 17:16
I agree with a demo being released about 2 months before planned release. Then Eidos Montreal can see the influx of even more people saying "regen health WTFUX?" and "OMG 3rd person sux" and delay the game by six months and make these things optional as they should be doing already. But I digress...

What section should be released as a demo depends on the game, really. For the original Deus Ex, the first level worked because it pretty much threw you into the game with no faff. If we're going to have a fairly "Hollywood" largely scripted, action packed intro though - like Invisible War, to a degree - then that shouldn't be used, because it shouldn't be spoiled before the game's released. In this case, take a fairly structured mission from near the start - something like Castle Clinton from DX 1 - that has set objectives and a limited play area, but still gives you ideas of the different approaches to situations. Also, limit it to one (strong) main objective and one side objective. You don't want to give players too much - like, say, the whole of Seattle from IW, or Hell's Kitchen from DX1 - because a) it'll overwhelm them (in a bad way) and b) it'll give too much of the full game away.

Lady_Of_The_Vine
25th Mar 2009, 17:44
I agree with a demo being released about 2 months before planned release. Then Eidos Montreal can see the influx of even more people saying "regen health WTFUX?" and "OMG 3rd person sux" and delay the game by six months and make these things optional as they should be doing already.


Interesting. :)
I actually hold the opposite view. I'm figuring people will play and say "actually, auto-health works really well, I'm pleasantly surprised. Its well-balanced and the fact that you have to ...... before you can ...... is awesome and well worked out! Auto-health in DX3 rocks!" and "OMG, why the hell did I think it was 3rd person? Its 1st person, but those occasional moments when you are shown 3rd person are actually freakin' amazing!" and there will be no delay in the game to make any changes because EM got it right all along. :thumb:

Hehe... :D

Jerion
25th Mar 2009, 17:45
Interesting. :)
I actually hold the opposite view. I'm figuring people will play and say "actually, auto-health works really well, I'm pleasantly surprised. Its well-balanced and the fact that you have to ...... before you can ...... is awesome and well worked out! Auto-health in DX3 rocks!" and "OMG, why the hell did I think it was 3rd person? Its 1st person, but those occasional moments when you are shown 3rd person are actually freakin' amazing!" and there will be no delay in the game to make any changes because EM got it right all along. :thumb:

Hehe... :D

This comes to mind for the two standpoints:

http://www2.csusm.edu/rms/images/yingyang.gif

Lady_Of_The_Vine
25th Mar 2009, 17:47
This comes to mind for the two standpoints:

http://www2.csusm.edu/rms/images/yingyang.gif

^
I am enlightened... *meditates* :cool:

:D

GmanPro
25th Mar 2009, 17:47
Interesting. :)
I actually hold the opposite view. I'm figuring people will play and say "actually, auto-health works really well, I'm pleasantly surprised. Its well-balanced and the fact that you have to ...... before you can ...... is awesome and well worked out! Auto-health in DX3 rocks!" and "OMG, why the hell did I think it was 3rd person? Its 1st person, but those occasional moments when you are shown 3rd person are actually freakin' amazing!" and there will be no delay in the game to make any changes because EM got it right all along. :thumb:

Hehe... :D

And sheep can fly! http://www.worms2.com/images/icons/good_chea_shee.gif

No but really, I do want it to succeed and for DX3 to be great. I like everything else about this game except the health system. Yes, even third person whatever, it doesn't bother me anywhere near as much as regen.

Lady_Of_The_Vine
25th Mar 2009, 17:56
And sheep can fly!

No but really, I do succeed and for DX3 to be great. I like everything else about this game except the health system. Yes, even third person whatever, it doesn't bother me anywhere near as much as regen.

Hehe, cute! :p
Well I don't expect a delay in the game and I'm confident EM chose auto-health for a good reason... so I guess that means sheep don't need to fly. :D

Jerion
25th Mar 2009, 17:58
Hehe, cute! :p
Well I don't expect a delay in the game and I'm confident EM chose auto-health for a good reason... so I guess that means sheep don't need to fly. :D

Nuts. I've always wanted an augmented sheep equipped with hoverjets. :( It's right up there with wanting a hovercraft. Why, you ask? To that I respond, "Why not?"

:D

Lady_Of_The_Vine
25th Mar 2009, 18:00
I'd love my own hovercraft... just not sheep-shaped though. :D

Jerion
25th Mar 2009, 18:01
I'd love my own hovercraft... just not sheep-shaped though. :D

I mean, really! :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jBE_GXeyc0

Lady_Of_The_Vine
25th Mar 2009, 18:03
LMAO, so cheap to buy too. :D
I could be tempted.... :whistle:

Spyhopping
25th Mar 2009, 18:03
Another HIGHLY relevant video ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vkw2DdoskPY

Lady_Of_The_Vine
25th Mar 2009, 18:04
OMG, yeah, I love Monty Python! :cool: :thumb:

Spyhopping
25th Mar 2009, 18:07
So lemmie get this straight. You want an augmented sheep equipped with hoverjets. And an onion-toaster-tear-gas aug. :eek:

Jerion
25th Mar 2009, 18:09
So lemmie get this straight. You want an augmented sheep equipped with hoverjets. And an onion-toaster-tear-gas aug. :eek:

http://www.kof.invisionzone.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/crazy.gif

Hey, the strangest things come up in conversation at 2 a.m. But while we're on the subject, can the sheep be augmented with the toaster aug? It'd be the perfect room-clearing weapon. While all the bad guys are confused as hell, they're put off-guard and get knocked out!

Think about it.

Ashpolt
25th Mar 2009, 18:35
I actually hold the opposite view. I'm figuring people will play and say "actually, auto-health works really well, I'm pleasantly surprised. Its well-balanced and the fact that you have to ...... before you can ...... is awesome and well worked out! Auto-health in DX3 rocks!" and "OMG, why the hell did I think it was 3rd person? Its 1st person, but those occasional moments when you are shown 3rd person are actually freakin' amazing!" and there will be no delay in the game to make any changes because EM got it right all along. :thumb:

Hehe... :D

Well, let's hope so, but I'm not going to hold my breath.

Either way though, all the more reason to get the demo out early: so it gives them time to make the changes once people complain, or so it can shut us naysayers up.

Spyhopping
25th Mar 2009, 18:49
You've gone mad! But here you go.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/3170B5QZ8HL._SL500_AA250_.jpg

Spyhopping
25th Mar 2009, 19:19
It should poo LAM's


Hehehe, sheep - LAMs, geddit?

No? Just me then.....

Ashpolt
25th Mar 2009, 19:22
Hehehe, sheep - LAMs, geddit?

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3094/2713049064_a756f5dceb.jpg

FrankCSIS
25th Mar 2009, 22:46
Unless they start the hype early on, I don't see what good releasing a demo a month in advance will do. By the time it actually reaches everybody's hears, and computers, the game will already be shipped. Kinda destroys the whole point. The sooner they can come up with a decent stage for everyone to try, the better.

As for what to put in it, I really liked what Half Life did. As some may recall, it was a condensed, washed down version of the actual game intro, and yet totally different from the real level itself. It also played much like the old sharewares, with a beginning and somewhat of an end. It gave a very good portrait of the whole mood without revealing anything at all. Most importantly, it wasn't a spoiled stage you'd have to play again in the game itself.

Lady_Of_The_Vine
25th Mar 2009, 23:40
You've gone mad! But here you go.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/3170B5QZ8HL._SL500_AA250_.jpg

LOL, how adorable. :D

maikkeey
26th Mar 2009, 11:34
I hope there's gona be a demo a few months before DX3 comes out so I can download it and see if it will run on my laptop (highly doubtful) so I can decide whether to buy it for PC or PS3.....assuming its coming out for PS3:scratch:

Necros
28th Mar 2009, 19:37
I hope there's gona be a demo a few months before DX3 comes out so I can download it and see if it will run on my laptop
You meant a few weeks, right? I'd be happy if we get it a few days before release. Let's hope this will be the case. I really don't understand why is it good puting them out after the game's been released. Or just making demos for the consoles. I mean, the PC gamers need the demo a lot more than them.

Ah, to hell with it, just gimme a beta or whatever version that you've already got running and I'll be happy. :D

AaronJ
28th Mar 2009, 21:37
I would like one, but I don't expect them to do it.

Lady_Of_The_Vine
28th Mar 2009, 21:55
I hope we have a demo... but I've chosen to buy the game anyway, so I guess it doesn't really matter that much to me. But would still be nice to get one all the same. :)

GmanPro
30th Mar 2009, 18:21
I'm not really interested in a demo. Usually videos are enough for me to judge how a game might turn out. Besides if I had played a demo of the Witcher first, and that demo was only the first area, then I would have gotten a bad impression and maybe decided not to buy. That first area doesn't do the rest of the game justice, it doesn't even really represent the kind of gameplay that is to come.

Lady_Of_The_Vine
7th Apr 2009, 23:10
I'm not really interested in a demo. Usually videos are enough for me to judge how a game might turn out. Besides if I had played a demo of the Witcher first, and that demo was only the first area, then I would have gotten a bad impression and maybe decided not to buy. That first area doesn't do the rest of the game justice, it doesn't even really represent the kind of gameplay that is to come.
^
That is a very good point. :cool:

Firepith
8th Apr 2009, 03:56
My 2 cents:

If there is no demo, and the reviews are anything less than stellar, I will probably wait to try it out, or wait until the price drops. I really will.

I've been pleasantly surprised by games I waited to play until they were cheap, but I've also been massively disappointed by games I paid full price for on day one. Deus Ex may get the benefit of the doubt, but I can't promise anything. Hell, I haven't even seen a gameplay video yet.

Hey, how about some gameplay videos?

jamhaw
8th Apr 2009, 04:27
I'm not really interested in a demo. Usually videos are enough for me to judge how a game might turn out. Besides if I had played a demo of the Witcher first, and that demo was only the first area, then I would have gotten a bad impression and maybe decided not to buy. That first area doesn't do the rest of the game justice, it doesn't even really represent the kind of gameplay that is to come.

I think Bioshock had a really good demo. It showed that it would work good on my computer and that it was fun. The movies just made me think the game was weird really. Although I suppose it really depends on the game as to whether the demo would give a clear idea of whether it was good or not. Some games take awhile to get into which can not be captured into the 2 or 3 hours that a demo requires.


My 2 cents:
If there is no demo, and the reviews are anything less than stellar, I will probably wait to try it out, or wait until the price drops. I really will.


I'm not sure if your supposed to discuss this on this forum. I think it violates the Terms of Use. (although I may be mixing it up with TTLG)

Jerion
8th Apr 2009, 05:34
Right. Don't start discussing torrents of Eidos games or your posts (and maybe you! :eek: ) will be on the fast track outta here.

http://forums.eidosgames.com/announcement.php?f=252&a=29

Rule #2.

Irate_Iguana
8th Apr 2009, 06:43
and the reviews are anything less than stellar

Ever since Fallout 3 I have to say I don't trust the game journalists anymore. Most are plain horrible. Full of inconsistencies and fanboyish ranting and raving. Hardly the pinnacle of good journalism. The number they give the game represents nothing more than the amount of cash the publisher was willing to spend on advertising.

If I do have to trust a review it will be a community one made by people that I know share the same interests as me.



Hey, how about some gameplay videos?

Greedy. We haven't even had proper screenshots and you want a gameplay video?

Lady_Of_The_Vine
8th Apr 2009, 09:36
Right. Don't start discussing torrents of Eidos games or your posts (and maybe you! :eek: ) will be on the fast track outta here.

http://forums.eidosgames.com/announcement.php?f=252&a=29

Rule #2.

I edited out the references in the posts too.

Gary_Savage
9th Apr 2009, 20:37
If ... the reviews are anything less than stellar

Personally, I don't trust game reviews. Let me cite two examples:

(1) The Gamespot reviews that I used to read looked a lot like the reviewers were just picking away at the games' flaws, even when they gave the games high scores -- If I would have looked at the reviews, without looking at the scores, I would have concluded that I should not buy some of the games that I bought and enjoyed.

(2) Deus Ex 1, my all time favourite game, got a Gapespot score somewhere around 8, while I totally think the game deserved a 10 (9.89, or something, really). There is the fact that reviewers might be looking at reviews as chores, while gamers have different objectives, that reviewers and gamers have different preferences, or, a more extreme case: the game might be more suited to a niche market, and the reviewer may not fall into that intended audience category.

So, I tend to take reviews with more than a pinch of salt, though I do not disregard them, entirely.

As for demos, I think they are very important. When I first tried the demo of DX1, that demo hardly ran on the computer that my friends and I had installed it on. We waited many months before one of us upgraded his rig (and the full version of DX1 just happened to be one of the games bundled with his new system), and we could see DX1 in all its glory. I liked the game so much that after I upgraded my system I still saved up for about 9 months (yeah, I was in high school) to buy it. Had we not noticed that demo with the funny sounding name, I would probably not have bought it, so I want a demo for this game, too.

IOOI
9th Apr 2009, 21:42
Personally, I don't trust game reviews. Let me cite two examples:

(1) The Gamespot reviews that I used to read looked a lot like the reviewers were just picking away at the games' flaws, even when they gave the games high scores -- If I would have looked at the reviews, without looking at the scores, I would have concluded that I should not buy some of the games that I bought and enjoyed.

(2) Deus Ex 1, my all time favourite game, got a Gapespot score somewhere around 8, while I totally think the game deserved a 10 (9.89, or something, really). There is the fact that reviewers might be looking at reviews as chores, while gamers have different objectives, that reviewers and gamers have different preferences, or, a more extreme case: the game might be more suited to a niche market, and the reviewer may not fall into that intended audience category.

So, I tend to take reviews with more than a pinch of salt, though I do not disregard them, entirely.

As for demos, I think they are very important. When I first tried the demo of DX1, that demo hardly ran on the computer that my friends and I had installed it on. We waited many months before one of us upgraded his rig (and the full version of DX1 just happened to be one of the games bundled with his new system), and we could see DX1 in all its glory. I liked the game so much that after I upgraded my system I still saved up for about 9 months (yeah, I was in high school) to buy it. Had we not noticed that demo with the funny sounding name, I would probably not have bought it, so I want a demo for this game, too.

I entirely agree. :thumb:
I even reconsider to buy DX:IW.

Icky6
9th Apr 2009, 22:36
Absolutely. I remember it was like a march or april 2000 issue of pc gamer, and my brother and i tried out this demo of a game called thief II: the metal age found on the disc. The level was the level Life of The Party, albeit slightly different from the final version found in the game. It ended up being my all-time favorite game.

Of course, then again, I bought Deus Ex because I read one of "interview with the devs" type advertisements in PC Gamer from the same issue, and bought it solely because it sounded good. Fortunately Deus Ex was actually also an amazing title.

Firepith
10th Apr 2009, 16:51
I'm not sure if your supposed to discuss this on this forum. I think it violates the Terms of Use. (although I may be mixing it up with TTLG)


Right. Don't start discussing torrents of Eidos games or your posts (and maybe you! :eek: ) will be on the fast track outta here.

http://forums.eidosgames.com/announcement.php?f=252&a=29

Rule #2.

What? I didn't say anything about torrents!

Jerion
10th Apr 2009, 17:00
Then you don't have anything to worry about. :)

K^2
10th Apr 2009, 17:21
Yes. Only mods are allowed to talk about pirating software around here, and only if it's not Eidos' software. These are the rules. I'm not sure where they are written, but these are them.

On a side note, pretty much anyone here can be banned under rule #2, because the most important tool in pirating any software is your web browser.

Since I don't think anyone will go this far, discussion of torrenting should be allowed on the same footing. Ditto on not posting links to certain bays and certain novas, though.

Jerion
10th Apr 2009, 17:27
Dude. Are you still going on about that Win XP comment? I was kidding around.

K^2
10th Apr 2009, 17:30
You know, if I start violating other rules on the list, and then say, "I was kidding around," I don't think it would save me from a ban. But as I said, things work different for you, mods.

Jerion
10th Apr 2009, 17:34
Drop it. There was never any serious intention to suggest he pirate anything. Hell, I got XP installed on my machine because I knew somebody who had uninstalled it from their machine (in favor of Ubuntu) and had the spare SP2 CD.

It could have, and by you was interpreted as suggesting he seriously pirate software. If somebody higher than me had interpreted it that way, then I'm 100% Positive I would have gotten a PM kindly asking me what the hell I thought I was doing.

K^2
10th Apr 2009, 17:57
Hey, look, don't take it personally. I'm not saying you're in the fault here. I'm saying that things here work differently for the mods. I have gotten PM's on much thinner stretches. They weren't from you, so I'm not accusing you of hypocrisy. I'm merely saying that you did not get any warnings from anyone over something that any of common users would have.

Edit: On interpretation, though. Any meaning you get from text is a result of interpretation. And it's always based on some assumptions. As trivial example, I assume that what you write is written in English. If it's some crazy code that just looks like English, my assumption is wrong, and I'll misinterpret. But that particular assumption is generally a pretty good one, unless something really does not look like it's written in English. I had to make a few assumptions to interpret your post, but they are reasonable ones. Yes, you might be able to find someone with a copy of XP that's just sitting there. I have a copy of W98 I'm not using a whole lot. But when you simply say "borrow CD from someone", that's not what most people are going to assume. So yeah, I was interpreting, but it was a reasonable interpretation. Again, people have gotten warnings on much thinner interpretations.

GmanPro
10th Apr 2009, 18:00
That's just because the admins/devs don't bother reading these forums anymore :p

jk

Lady_Of_The_Vine
10th Apr 2009, 18:03
K^2, you disappoint me with your bait-throwing... then you tell MrK not to take it personally when all along you refer to his post.
I'm a mod and I don't fit into what you describe either. So don't make such sweeping statements, its neither fair or necessary. Thank you. :)

K^2
10th Apr 2009, 18:15
MyImmortal, you are getting needlessly defensive.

I think I've made my stance on copyright pretty clear before. I'm not going to seriously criticize someone for getting software illegally. But if I said what Mr. K said, I'd have at least two PM's in my inbox telling me to stay clear of such topics.

I do have particular mods in mind when I'm saying this, but I do not wish to point fingers. If you're absolutely sure that you're not guilty of such discrimination, then it's probably not addressed at you.

Lady_Of_The_Vine
10th Apr 2009, 18:22
I'm absolutely sure its not addressed to me... so therefore I can't possibly be accused of being defensive.
But we can drop it now because it is a silly discussion from an original statement that has been taken way out of context.

Adam Weishaupt 1748
18th Apr 2009, 23:07
If the devs have doubts about the game they should release a demo in November. That way they would have time to correct something if needed until release in May-July 2010.[/QUOTE]


Getting back onto the Topic about Demo's.

Stardock released a version of Sins of a Solar Empire a full 3 months before its 'real' release. This gave them time to have bugs and revisions reported to them on a dedicated forum. It made the game run extremley smooth.

I would have the training Level and a 'intensive' level for the demo. The Intensive level should ensure that if this part works on the computer then everything will work. You want some non begining tech and augs so you can have a full taste of what awaits you. A possibility for this is as a 1 on 1 shooter style like Halo or by importing some random characters into the training level i.e holodeck running a selection of programs.

As has been stated many times before a demo is to help you decide on puirchaseing the game. It also confirms that the game will work on your own unique PC and this is the main reason I want a Demo! My computer is a year old Notebook PC running on vista and I'd like reasurance that it will work.

I will agree with another comment posted here about the lack of demos being a consequence of 'reduced' games. If you've got a bigger game than some of it can be leaked as a demo.

Another alternitve that might not be so applicable here is to release a demo or part of the game (Beta) to those who have preordered it. Then after a suitable time period i.e 3 mounths release the full game as this vastly reduces the number of post-release patches required.

I'm glad to hear that a 2009 release date is being considered.

Daedalus CiarĂ¡n
5th Jun 2009, 14:43
I only bought Deus Ex 'cause I played a demo version. I would never have discovered it otherwise I'd say. As for DX3? Even if it runs on my PC, or I upgrade the PC to the point where it will run, I'm not going to buy it without testing it.

Maybe I'll get a loan of DX3 from a friend or something. But I'll be on here after it's released to see people's reactions. Reviews are dodgy at the best of times so I'll put my trust in the DX lovers on here and their reactions. Either way, unless they release a demo, I'm not buying it on release. Eidos Montreal need to convince me to buy their product, if they're not going to, then I'm holding on to my money.

Lady_Of_The_Vine
5th Jun 2009, 18:16
Maybe I'll get a loan of DX3 from a friend or something...
But I'll be on here after it's released to see people's reactions. Reviews are dodgy at the best of times so I'll put my trust in the DX lovers on here and their reactions.

Yeah, waiting to hear our views first is the best way if you are not sure.
All I have to hear is something like 'so far... so good!!!!', and I'll be buying it immediately.
If I had a friend who has a copy, I doubt they would hand it over to me because they will probably be wanting to play it 24/7, so I'll be forced to get one myself.

Hey, what am I talking about?! :nut:
I'm going to buy it regardless. I'm trusting my instinct and faith in EM. :thumb: :cool:

Jerion
5th Jun 2009, 18:26
Yeah, I'll buy it.

Lady_Of_The_Vine
5th Jun 2009, 19:25
Yeah, I'll buy it.

You can loan it to me first then. :p

Just kidding.
In fact, I want to get my copy before you get yours. Do you think this might be possible?
*starts to scheme* :naughty:

Necros
6th Jun 2009, 07:07
If I had a friend who has a copy, I doubt they would hand it over to me because they will probably be wanting to play it 24/7, so I'll be forced to get one myself.
Or you could sneak in, distract him/her by throwing something, grab the disc quickly and get out without being seen. Then set up some LAMs at every entry to your house, so he or she can't get it back before you are done. :cool: :D

To be on topic, I'd like an alpha stage version of the game as a demo too, just give me something to play with already! :D I remember the Doom 3 alpha that was *edited out*.

K^2
6th Jun 2009, 17:58
@ something someone said earlier.

Demos aren't made for the developers' benefit. Yes, games are sometimes tweaked after the demo, but primarily these are small tweaks that need to be done because someone messed something up. Goal of the demo is to sell the game, which means that it needs to represent the final product as near as possible. If devs want to know how something in the game runs from perspective of a player they do a closed beta test. Feedback from that is far more organized.

Lady_Of_The_Vine
6th Jun 2009, 20:15
I really don't care whose benefit it serves, I really hope there is a demo. I just want one. :p

K^2
7th Jun 2009, 02:31
And that pretty much sums up the gamers' perspective on the matter.

Lady_Of_The_Vine
7th Jun 2009, 08:54
Yup. :D