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Cugros
26th Oct 2008, 10:00
In real life there are about 5000 languages. But in DX1 English was spoken all over world, like in Hong Kong and Paris. Even chinese newspapers were in English. Supposedly (hopefully) DX3 will feature many cities in various countries. And in reality English is not spoken by everyone everywhere.
So, should DX3 feature foreign languages, and speakers unable to communicate fluently, or at all, with the main character?

This would of course require skilled voice actors, so we don't end up with for an example a non-English-speaking italian NPC, who has an extemely strong American accent.

(I could find no thread like this, not with the search tool nor from the list)

I personally find this to be a good idea: it would add realism, a bit of culture, and allow players skilled in languages reap the profit of their ability. Of course in every city there should be an great number of english-speaking persons, and the inability to understand strange languages should not make basic progress in game any harder, but rather add something little: some secrets to find, and maybe a few Easter eggs. How do you like the idea?

jordan_a
26th Oct 2008, 11:11
You could keep foreign languages and subtitle them in english.

But then, is our character supposed to know all these tongues? And is english not spoken is every country?

That's why to my mind, the best thing to do is to adapt the english proficiency to the people you meet in the game.

Depending on their education they should speak it well (with a small accent because it's funnier) or really bad.

Cugros
26th Oct 2008, 11:49
Yeah, due to the fact, that AJ propably isn't able to understand all the languages, subtitles may not be a good idea.

And yeah, English is not spoken everywhere. For an example in Russia in it may sometimes be hard to find an english-speaking person, and if they do speak English, they are really bad at it. Only th highly educated have a decent understanding of English. I'll give you an example:

Last spring I was visiting Russia. Actually, we were in the middle of Russia, but in a kinda big city, which was the capital of that region (not russia, Komi). I don't speak any russian. One night, after some shopping and a cup of tee, we decided to head back to the school which was providing us sleeping places. It was about nine o'clock, PM. Of course we got lost. We tried to ask for directions, but no one there talked english. After TWO hours, we found a policeman who knew some English, and sais something like: "Sckul? Ya, go Twu street -pointed a direction-, then -he pointed left-" Okay, we went two steets to that direction, and turned left. No school. After one MORE hour, a russian woman we had been asking for directions called us a taxi. The driver spoke very little English (BTW he was about 19y), and didnt understand us at all. But he called his friend, who taught at the university. He understood us, and we got to sleep, only a bit after midnight. It took us over three hours to travel about half a kilometer.

Yeah, the point was: If you go out of the "tourist part" of a country, less and less people will know English. My dad can't speak English, though he is an entrepeneur (okay, farmer/entrepreneur).

And I meant that in the game most NPCs will speak English, but those who wont, will just say something, and if the player understands, then good and player benefits, if not, it doesn't matter, for the info isn't that important.


EDIT: Wikipedia said about 1.8 billion people speak English. Thats a bit less than a third of worlds population. Here's the wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_language

TrickyVein
26th Oct 2008, 21:31
I always thought it would be cool to have some sort of translator chip a la buried in time/legacy of time or something like the babelfish from HG2G in order to understand and speak a variety of tongues.

Flobulon
26th Oct 2008, 22:49
As long as the voice acting is better than that of Hong Kong in Deus Ex, I don't really mind what language they're speaking :rasp:
A translator chip thingy makes sense - perhaps it could provide subtitles which are projected onto AJ's glasses. Not sure how that'd work the other way though.

Seriously though, that voice acting was hilarious.

Dead-Eye
1st Dec 2008, 02:25
So has anybody talked about the language's that are spoken in Deus Ex 3. Everyone spoke English except the monks in china in Deus Ex. Will DX3 have the people speak the language that they are most likely to speak or will everyone still oddly speak English?

Mindmute
1st Dec 2008, 02:57
Actually, there was a lady in France who didn't speak English either.



I agree that you can't assume everyone everywhere speaks English and therefore you can't keep every character in the game speaking in English without destroying some sense of realism.

However, the only viable alternative would be to include subtitles in English when some of the characters speak in their native language.
Otherwise we're all going to be a bit lost in translation (note the awful pun) when we Adam isn't in an English speaking country.


I'm not sure, honestly. The language issue never bothered me much on DX, nor did it really break the immersion.
To me that's a non-issue.



There's always the silly alternative though: to ship translation guides to several different languages with each copy of the game :rolleyes:

jordan_a
1st Dec 2008, 03:01
I could swear I read something similar somewhere else. :scratch:

rynn taylor
1st Dec 2008, 04:54
I'm not sure, honestly. The language issue never bothered me much on DX, nor did it really break the immersion.
To me that's a non-issue.

I agree - it certainly isn't game breaking for me. At least characters had different accents.

I think that there are three general ways that EM can approach this:
1. All dialogue in English but the characters have an accent (similar to DX1).
2. Certain dialogue in another language other than English but with English subtitles. This could be justified by saying that Adam has an aug that translates language for him.
3. Certain dialogue in another language with no English subtitles. This is the more realistic option. For me, S.T.A.L.K.E.R. is a good example of a game that uses langauge to help create atmosphere. Either that or GSC Gameworld didn't want to/couldn't be bothered translating any more than they needed to.

Yargo
1st Dec 2008, 05:09
I could swear I read something similar somewhere else. :scratch:

Are you thinking of the typo in Maggie Chow's e-mail when it was in a different language? Polish I think?
*Wow, now I feel like a huge nerd. lol*
Maybe I'm a lvl 9 now? :lol:

jordan_a
1st Dec 2008, 05:58
No I meant on another thread. :D

And by the way you guys have not activated your signatures!! ****

Yargo
1st Dec 2008, 06:29
No I meant on another thread. :D

And by the way you guys have not activated your signatures!! ****

Thats what I thought but,
...the typo in Maggie Chow's e-mail when it was in a different language... came to mind as well. :D Thats why I feel like a complete nerd. :cool:

Wildeheart
1st Dec 2008, 10:15
3. Certain dialogue in another language with no English subtitles. This is the more realistic option. For me, S.T.A.L.K.E.R. is a good example of a game that uses langauge to help create atmosphere. Either that or GSC Gameworld didn't want to/couldn't be bothered translating any more than they needed to.

I'm pretty sure it was your second idea. The budget on this game was tiny considering what was achieved and that lack of english translation actually makes certain parts of the game nigh-on unplayable.

As for the actual thread topic, I want characters speaking in english, I'd appreciate an accent if well voice acted but when the alternatives pretty much seem to be "foreign language with subtitles" or "foreign language without subtitles" then it doesn't seem to be much of choice to me at all!

Cugros
1st Dec 2008, 15:57
I could swear I read something similar somewhere else. :scratch:

That's true. By pure coincidence, I happen to remember that thread. I'm not sure, but I strongly believe it was written by a very smart (+good looking) person. You actually replied BTW, which is propably why you remember. Here's the link:

http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=81510

And I really would appreciate foreign languages, especially if done well. I can understand that big cities like Paris and Hong Kong have a lot of english-speakers, but some rural village should not. And people should at least react in their native tongue, even if they spoke fluent english. Like
"Que? ... Parlez-vous francais? ... Uh, Américaine. 'ello"
Or something similar.
That would add some fun to those who have spent their time studying multiple different languages.

3nails4you
1st Dec 2008, 17:10
Sorry if a previous poster already said this...

could Adam's augmentations not include a Universal Translator that allowed him to hear things in his native tongue and translate his words for others to hear him? Just an idea.

Also, EM, if you use that idea I expect to be in the end credits that 1 or 2 people will read. :D

That, or the whole world could have switched to Esperanto or something. :D

Lady_Of_The_Vine
1st Dec 2008, 18:49
So has anybody talked about the language's that are spoken in Deus Ex 3. Everyone spoke English except the monks in china in Deus Ex. Will DX3 have the people speak the language that they are most likely to speak or will everyone still oddly speak English?

I merged your new thread with existing one on language.
I've also added a note in the 'important threads' list. :)

ZylonBane
1st Dec 2008, 20:15
Will DX3 have the people speak the language that they are most likely to speak or will everyone still oddly speak English?
I think we already have more than enough oddly-spoken English right here.

foxberg
2nd Dec 2008, 01:30
For an example in Russia in it may sometimes be hard to find an english-speaking person, and if they do speak English, they are really bad at it. Only th highly educated have a decent understanding of English.[/url]

Go to St Petersburg or Moscow. We'll talk then. I can't think of a single friend of mine that couldn't speak at least some English (that is not to mention that a few of them also speak some German, French, Italian, etc.).

FrankCSIS
2nd Dec 2008, 01:47
I was in St Petersburg last May. We decided renting an apartment would be a better alternative to going into an hotel. Did the same in Moscow without many problems. Turns out the landlord in St-Pete's didn't speak english, which made a few things quite complicated, especially considering the state of the apartment. It was a lot more amusing than anything else, but the barrier was definitely there.

In the end, nothing that can't be solved, but it makes for an interesting experience, which is what I guess the OP is hoping for with such a proposition, and I certainly agree. It would add an additional challenge, make some scenes more memorable and a good excuse for a new kind of humor in games.

Hell, just traveling around with an interpreter would make a huge difference. Especially if you didn't know how much you could trust him.

Cugros
2nd Dec 2008, 12:55
Go to St Petersburg or Moscow. We'll talk then. I can't think of a single friend of mine that couldn't speak at least some English (that is not to mention that a few of them also speak some German, French, Italian, etc.).

Yeah, I should have emphasized more that big cities tend to have more english speaking population. And I had no language problems in Moscow, people there are generally quite fluent in english. But the farther you go from big cities (in any country) the quality of english spoken drops, as well as the number of english speaking persons. Like I said, my father knows no english, nor do my cousins and their family who live even further in the countryside. OK, they know some, but not enough to actually communicate, and I have been told by our american exhange student, that even when they have the necessary vocabulary, their "accent" makes understanding very very hard.

But when I needed an english speaking person in the middle of the night in Russia, I could not find one. The taxi driver called to his university professor. OK, once again the taxi driver knew some english, but did not understand where we wanted to go. That is true. It is easier to find an english speaker at daytime.

If I offended anyone I'm really sorry. I just used Russia as an example since I have personal experiences from there. Russia is a great place. Go visit.

GmanPro
2nd Dec 2008, 13:17
But the farther you go from big cities (in any country) the quality of english spoken drops,

:lol: Lol, that's true even in America...

redfordd
2nd Dec 2008, 13:51
I am British and live in North America. I have been told on occasion during my travels about this continent that my "accent" make me hard to understand, even though it is North Americans who speak English with an accent. :)

I don't find that everyone speaking the language of the country that a game is released in lessens the immersion in the experience. It is a convention in entertainment that has been done since we started amusing ourselves through story telling. Unless it is something we are meant not to understand, or rather a majourity of us, I prefer everyone speak the same language.

FrankCSIS
3rd Dec 2008, 00:06
Well it's not so much for immersion purposes rather than actually adding to the gameplay and the experience. Like everything else, it strictly depends on how well it is integrated. If treated as a mere commodity it will only end up as annoying, like a vast majority of features that never make it past one or two titles, or an engine update. If part of the plot and with a definite purpose, especially to create a mood or add a challenge, it could work very well.

It's not a must, but it's a definite improvement possibility, and something to consider in the future.

GmanPro
3rd Dec 2008, 00:32
I personally loved the various accents in DX1. Some of them were a little bit over done sure, but overall I thought they added to the immersion aspect of the game. Its kinda intimidating when you're in a foreign country and you don't speak the native language, especially when you were dealing with organized crime lords...

Necros
7th Dec 2008, 08:26
That's why to my mind, the best thing to do is to adapt the english proficiency to the people you meet in the game.

Depending on their education they should speak it well (with a small accent because it's funnier) or really bad.
:thumbsup: What he said.

Yargo
7th Dec 2008, 16:55
I'm American and I know some German and French :cool: (though the German is getting worse and worse because I haven't used it since the 7th grade)

I think learning Languages is great!

jordan_a
7th Dec 2008, 18:14
I think learning Languages is great!Best trick after guitar to get girls interested in you...

Mindmute
7th Dec 2008, 18:30
Its kinda intimidating when you're in a foreign country and you don't speak the native language, especially when you were dealing with organized crime lords...

Heh I do a lot of backpack-travelling and trust me, when you don't know language too well even a hostel/innkeeper can be intimidating.

Of course, I'm not a mechanically augmented chief of security at a biotech firm or anything like that ;)

Igoe
7th Dec 2008, 18:41
I'm all for the subtitle idea. Though it probably won't happen, If the skill system from DX1 had returned they could have added to the skill list a "Language" skill which allows you to translate basic phrases heard and have them displayed on your HUD as subtitles. All the major NPCs would speak English in the other countries, but with a fully upgraded language skill you could translate all conversations in all locales, and have access to MANY new side quests, traders, and funny convos.

Just something to add to replay value since dumping points into language would mean you are less versatile in combat, and to make sure you probably won't get ALL the side missions on the first play around.

I suppose in DX3 they could work it into a mod, since you put skill points into your augs rather than a global skill system. If I had to choose between spy drone and the language mod, it would actually be a tough choice since one is stealth and one is NPC interaction. Two sides of the same coin in a lot of situations........

Won't happen, but for a game centered around NPC interaction, a guy can always hope, right?

Augmented Cactuar
7th Dec 2008, 19:07
Quick note: remember that the game is being made in Montreal. In Quebec we speak French but also English, and many more languages are spoken in the city of Montreal. They are not mainstream languages but the multicultural aspect of Montreal is very strong. I doubt EM would be foolish enough to use DX1's spoken language 'standards' (which were absolutely atrocious). I think the language variety (if present) will be very good.

Yargo
7th Dec 2008, 21:06
For the game side of speech, it could be explained that you have a neural augmentation that is equipped with translating capabilities.

TrickyVein
10th Dec 2008, 03:52
^^ just for the sake of being awesome, you mean.

I always liked flicking on my "translator chip" in Buried in Time.

3nails4you
10th Dec 2008, 04:14
For the game side of speech, it could be explained that you have a neural augmentation that is equipped with translating capabilities.

Like I said, universal translator. That's the Star Trek excuse ;)

Yargo
10th Dec 2008, 04:51
Like I said, universal translator. That's the Star Trek excuse ;)

Sorry bout that didn't read the whole thread :D. It would be cool if you could turn it on and off like TrickyVein said. :thumb:

Spyhopping
10th Dec 2008, 11:17
The guy who is doing Adams voice (http://www.eliastoufexis.com/resume.html) can speak French, so perhaps we'll have a bilingual protagonist

Necros
10th Dec 2008, 12:48
I hope not. :rolleyes: The only foreign language I know is English and I don't want to miss out on anything in Deus Ex 3. If they really want to go that way, I hope that at least there will be English subtitles when we hear other languages.

Kaigypsy
15th Dec 2008, 02:20
That, or the whole world could have switched to Esperanto or something. :D

THIS! :thumbsup: Saluton! Mi estas nova esperantista. Hope I remembered that right. I don't get to use it as often as I'd like.

rockyrr
16th Dec 2008, 15:50
I really appreciate foreign languages if they are done great... :D

foxberg
16th Dec 2008, 19:29
If Eidos pays for my airplane tickets from NY to Montreal and my stay at the InterContinental Hotel during some weekend I would do a voice over in Russian virtually for nothing. :D
And I would translate all subtitles as well, plus street signs, etc.

SteelRomano
16th Dec 2008, 19:41
I write and speak in Spanish, please do the translation into Spanish Deus Ex 3 as it is the third most spoken language in the world!
español

FrankCSIS
17th Dec 2008, 00:12
If Eidos pays for my bus ride downtown and perhaps a sandwich for lunch I'll gladly do French voices.

Oh wait, they're pretty much all Frenchies in there anyway!