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Big Orange
11th Oct 2008, 22:58
I expect this game will have a Mature or 18 age rating and not just because of the potentially graphic violence (you had people exploding into burger meat in DX1 after you threw a LAM at them). While I wouldn't like too much swearing, some of the shady, anti-social characters you meet in the slums would certainly turn the air blue if it follows real life and you wouldn't shout 'Oh bother!' if somebody shot your kneecaps away.

Lo Bruto
11th Oct 2008, 23:06
There's already a topic concerning maturity.
You should search before posting.

rynn taylor
11th Oct 2008, 23:13
DX1 did a pretty good job of being realistic in its dialogue without having to have resort to employing obscenities in every second sentence.

I just hope whatever Eidos choose to do in DX3 is able to get approval from the censorship board in Australia. I can’t believe that we don’t have an R18+ classification when the average age of gamers is in their late twenties.

Big Orange
11th Oct 2008, 23:44
It seems strange and hypocritical that you can blow away fifty people, yet can't say the 'F' word.

pewbeng
12th Oct 2008, 00:12
I hope it'll be dependant on the situation.

The JoJo-types (*nod to Lo Bruto*) probably don't need much to drop the f-bomb, for the Manderleys and Simmons there has to be more reason.

If they don't make it a Deux Nukem that's a no-brainer.

Big Orange
12th Oct 2008, 00:23
Yeah, pimps, hustlers, and dealers would be pretty uncouth with their language, while MJ12 troopers will swear, well, like troopers. But it would be funny to imagine the vicious Walton Simons as a very stuffy prude who doesn't tolerate swearing from his staff.

~Psychotic~
12th Oct 2008, 04:49
DX1 did a pretty good job of being realistic in its dialogue without having to have resort to employing obscenities in every second sentence.

I just hope whatever Eidos choose to do in DX3 is able to get approval from the censorship board in Australia. I can’t believe that we don’t have an R18+ classification when the average age of gamers is in their late twenties.

You know who to blame for that, Australia. You know who to blame (I find it really shameful too, that NZ can get R18 games but AU can't).

And you can always buy it from the US (will cost roughly the same anyway because the price you pay includes shipping costs).

rynn taylor
12th Oct 2008, 22:23
Yes Psychotic, it is known which individual currently stands between Australia getting an R18+ classification: Michael Atkinson, the South Australian Attorney-General

http://www.news.com.au/technology/story/0,25642,23282288-5014239,00.html

http://www.kotaku.com.au/games/2008/03/why_michael_atkinsons_opposal_of_r18_does_bugger_all_to_protect_kids_promotes_crime.html

v.dog
13th Oct 2008, 04:43
I don't mind the odd F-bomb when it adds to the scene, but when every third word is F-, it really gets tiresome. (I'm looking at you, Prey.)

DXeXodus
13th Oct 2008, 10:10
I don't mind searing in the game if it fits appropriately wherever it is used. People swear in reality and if this game is shooting for realism then it should be included, but should most certainly not be gratuitous.

Big Orange
13th Oct 2008, 13:36
If there is too much swearing, it gets unintentionally hilarious like Deadwood (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=EsPYJIat0lo) (WARNING: foul language so bad it's funny). Although to be fair I wouldnt mind the 'S', 'F' and 'C' words in moderation.

Overtime
13th Oct 2008, 15:57
I dont know...usually im all for swearing (and lots of it!) but DX1 did such a great job of telling the story without it.

I dont feel it's necessary. I dont mind the use of soft swear words but the more aggressive words should be kept to a minimum.

It's difficult to judge how to use swear words to convey your message/the atmosphere. It usually turns the situation into a joke which shatters immersion.

Its a tough one, because i swear a lot in my daily life!

3nails4you
13th Oct 2008, 17:19
Here's a question:

if you watch a movie (say, like Equilibrium) or play a game (like maybe Assassin's Creed) where there is little foul language, do you enjoy it that much less? I think swearing is a human problem that is unnecessary. The game can seem realistic AND your character can have civil, intelligent vocabulary. The game will still be fun based on gameplay, etc.

pewbeng
13th Oct 2008, 18:31
Why would swearing be a "human problem"?

Plus, I don't think the use of swearing-free language is a sign of intelligence. I even would go as far as saying that swearing is a pretty natural tool to react to things that justify it. If you get shot in the groin and you're done with the moaning, I'd say a well placed F-bomb is in order.


It doesn't lessen the fun if there's no swearing, not necessarily. It has to fit the scene.

But it's natural, known as a reaction to certain situations, which makes it a cliché, which makes it a good and universally accepted tool to paint a stronger picture of someone upset/choleric or a shady character in a game/book/movie.



I'm not a native speaker, so if anyone can't follow me just give me a nudge and I grab a dictionary.

3nails4you
13th Oct 2008, 19:11
Swearing is not natural, swearing is something that we are taught or teach ourselves. I myself have never sworn or cursed, and it is not out of restraint, it is indeed natural. I never taught myself to swear, so I don't. I think that if I don't hear an f-bomb or any other swear word when I shoot someone in a video game, I don't see the death (or severe pain) as any less realistic. That's just my opinion of how I would like to see a game: with as little swearing as possible.

Kaze103
13th Oct 2008, 19:40
Swearing is not natural, swearing is something that we are taught or teach ourselves.

I think if we were to say swearing is as natural as any part of language then that would be true, as language itself is taught to us, or we teach ourselves.

On topic, I wouldn't mind swearing either way, it wouldn't change the game at all for me, it wouldn't add, nor take anything away. As long as it isn't obvious (swearing because you can..).

As for pewbeng's statement - I'd do more than swear after being shot in the groin.

Frraksurred
13th Oct 2008, 20:24
I'm all for realistic, but who is to say what realistic is? Personally I don't care to hear swearing in my games. I don't care for a lot of (im)mature content. If it is going to be included I think gore and language should be scalable if not de-selectable. In more extreme content, alternate content should be included for those of us who choose not to be subject to it. Beside making the game marketable to wider range of people, it leaves the choice in our hands without excluding anyone.

3nails4you
13th Oct 2008, 20:43
I'm all for realistic, but who is to say what realistic is? Personally I don't care to hear swearing in my games. I don't care for a lot of (im)mature content. If it is going to be included I think gore and language should be scalable if not de-selectable. In more extreme content, alternate content should be included for those of us who choose not to be subject to it. Beside making the game marketable to wider range of people, it leaves the choice in our hands without excluding anyone.

100% agree. Well said.

Red
14th Oct 2008, 11:52
Well, DX1 had mild swearing...

"Goddamn terrorist!"
"No sht..."
"...the damned thing..."

No F-grade stuff. But since the world was in such downfall, poverty, oppression, I'd atleast expect the bums on street to rip off the motherf*** government, but that's just me. DX1 seemed a bit too pure in that aspect. At that time the only game that ever tried out obscenity is Kingpin, but it was a bit exscessive (although within the game, the language fitted pretty well with the setting) and game developers weren't so confident to include mature language. Things started to change with new GTAs, FEARs, Manhunt's, etc...

But then again, DX3 will occur in a brighter world, with blossoming economy, the new renaissance, so... I actually don't know. I wouldn't mind having mature language.

3nails4you
14th Oct 2008, 13:09
Well, DX1 had mild swearing...

"God**** terrorist!"
"No sht..."
"...the damned thing..."

No F-grade stuff. But since the world was in such downfall, poverty, oppression, I'd atleast expect the bums on street to rip off the motherf*** government, but that's just me. DX1 seemed a bit too pure in that aspect. At that time the only game that ever tried out obscenity is Kingpin, but it was a bit exscessive (although within the game, the language fitted pretty well with the setting) and game developers weren't so confident to include mature language. Things started to change with new GTAs, FEARs, Manhunt's, etc...

But then again, DX3 will occur in a brighter world, with blossoming economy, the new renaissance, so... I actually don't know. I wouldn't mind having mature language.

I never heard those, I always took people out quicker than they could say one word ;) especially those bums.

Kaze103
14th Oct 2008, 13:20
But then again, DX3 will occur in a brighter world, with blossoming economy, the new renaissance, so...

However, we've already seen a picture of a riot, signs against augmented people, segregation of aug's/non aug's, the fact that the rich live on top with the poor underneath.

Swearing like in DX1 is great, the swearing that is easy not to notice, that you just pass over without thinking, that's what swearing often is. If you try making swearing noticeable you've gone too far.

Overtime
14th Oct 2008, 16:43
Swearing like in DX1 is great, the swearing that is easy not to notice, that you just pass over without thinking, that's what swearing often is. If you try making swearing noticeable you've gone too far.

yep, i agree.

Mecranth
14th Oct 2008, 16:51
I would like it to stay subtle, as it was in the first game. However, I would not care much if there was none or a lot of it. Swear words are used to emphasize meaning, so there may be cases in the third game where it would enhance the moment.

3nails4you
14th Oct 2008, 17:06
I would like it to stay subtle, as it was in the first game. However, I would not care much if there was none or a lot of it. Swear words are used to emphasize meaning, so there may be cases in the third game where it would enhance the moment.

This could EASILY be done with just as much due emphasis with sophisticated, socially accepted language.

Mecranth
14th Oct 2008, 17:11
True. Still, some swearing is healthy for any story. It only really detracts from the experience when abused to no end, a good example being the Grand Theft Auto games.

Red
14th Oct 2008, 19:14
Well, the most important thing is that the world in Dx3 presents istelf in human fashion, people have to have their flaws, whether in speech, behavior or their actions. Swearing can bring a more authentic feeling. Just so that the game isn't too pure in that aspect.

Freddo
14th Oct 2008, 23:00
DX1 did a pretty good job of being realistic in its dialogue without having to have resort to employing obscenities in every second sentence.
Yep, in never went overboard, and neither should Deus Ex 3.

rokstrombo
15th Oct 2008, 12:37
The game Kingpin - Life of Crime had a lot of "adult" content for its time (especially swearing). Nearly every line contained some swearing, and though it was refreshing at first eventually it became a bit of a novelty.

A problem with including swearing in a game is that it doesn't age very well. Back in the early 90s, Australian television networks used to censor out the word "damn" from The Simpsons! Even today when these older episodes are replayed, scenes where the word "damn" occurs are still cut short. In the time since though, what was acceptable for a "G" or "PG" rating has changed significantly.

Also, I don't understand why people would be offended by swearing (or sexual content) in a game where the player is forced to kill others. I think the bigger moral concern is with the fact that such violence is dressed up so as to be pleasurable for the player / viewer. You can kill repeatedly to a rock music soundtrack, but impolite language is somehow distasteful? I would really like to see a first person shooter try to explore the morality issues surrounding simulated killing. Seriously!

It reminds me of this game server that I used to play on. The "c word" is forbidden because children play there (World War 2 shooter of course). If said word is uttered, a permanent ban is immediately issued. This doesn't bother me in the slightest. What does bother me however is that the admins are total racists. So frank racial abuse (including the "n word") is totally cool for the kids to hear, but if someone drops a slang word for a body part, the line has been crossed! The sad thing is that young kids do actually play there, and eventually do join in on the racist jokes and rants that they really don't understand. Very sad!

DXeXodus
15th Oct 2008, 12:42
What you say is very true. Well said.

rynn taylor
15th Oct 2008, 13:06
well said rokstrombo :thumbsup: