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jordan_a
10th Oct 2008, 10:21
What do you think of suit/costume switching like Hitman?

I think it would be necessary and great and I can show you how I picture it.

Maybe once you select the costume this should happen (remember it's 1st person camera):

-character kneels
-at the same time, fade out to black
-dark screen for two seconds
-during the dark screen, adequate noise
-you're good to go.

1:32 but with a fade out to black because it's a fps: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsNAz5nLh_E

DXeXodus
10th Oct 2008, 10:24
I really enjoy it when a game offers suit switching. It was awesome in Hitman and even Commandos. Really enhances the infiltration aspect of the game IMO.

~Psychotic~
10th Oct 2008, 12:15
I like it also, I also like seeing the character in other outfits lol.

WhatsHisFace
14th Oct 2008, 13:16
If I want to change suits, I'll play a Hitman game.

Since this is Deus Ex, infiltration should be based around... PLAYER SKILL (imagine that!) rather than playing dress-up.

rynn taylor
14th Oct 2008, 13:35
If I want to change suits, I'll play a Hitman game.

Since this is Deus Ex, infiltration should be based around... PLAYER SKILL (imagine that!) rather than playing dress-up.

I agree with what WHF is saying. To me, DX is not about disguises. If you want to be sneaky and infiltrate then you have a number of options: lockpick, multitool and hacks skills and or simply moving from cover to cover (maybe even hiding in the dark along the way :D ).

It also might be harder to employ disguises in DX3 depending upon how visible Adam's augs are.

El_Bel
14th Oct 2008, 13:56
If I want to change suits, I'll play a Hitman game.

Since this is Deus Ex, infiltration should be based around... PLAYER SKILL (imagine that!) rather than playing dress-up.

Deus Ex is about choices!! If you dont like it, dont dress up!! But i find it pretty interesting for Deus Ex!! I cant understand why it would ruin your experience if they add another choice for approach.

ZylonBane
14th Oct 2008, 14:02
Still, it would be a nice touch for the player to dress appropriately if the situation requires it, as opposed to wearing the exact same set of clothes for several days straight.

VtM:Bloodlines handled this in an interesting way-- Over the course of the game, the player could aquire successively more effective "armors" (sets of clothing). But each armor also had a very distinct visual appearance, so when not in combat you could switch to whatever armor you felt like to suit your mood.

3nails4you
14th Oct 2008, 14:21
We could do the whole thing Mickey Mouse does in that game where you save Pluto...a red curtain appears, you switch into your firefighter costume or whatever, then he pulls back the curtain! That would definitely work...

WhatsHisFace
14th Oct 2008, 14:35
Deus Ex is about choices!! If you dont like it, dont dress up!! But i find it pretty interesting for Deus Ex!! I cant understand why it would ruin your experience if they add another choice for approach.

Deus Ex is about choices to a degree. This is not a game series where "anything goes". If this game operates anything like the first two, playing dress-up is going to be horribly out of place.

Using disguises is best left to third person games and even in those confines, Hitman's the only game that should do it. The disguise segment of Red Faction (FPS) was easily the worst part of that game. They just threw in unnecessary mechanics that didn't apply to the game's foundation and ended up creating a lull period.

Which is exactly what it would be in Deus Ex 3.

3nails4you
14th Oct 2008, 14:37
Plus, if I have to dress up in those poofy Renaissance pants I will disown the whole franchise.

jordan_a
15th Oct 2008, 08:29
If you want to be sneaky and infiltrate then you have a number of options: lockpick, multitool and hacks skills and or simply moving from cover to coverThis doesn't make any sense. If DX is about options and choices, why couldn't you choose to switch your suit after taking down a guy? :scratch:

You should say that you don't like the idea rather than "DX has different mediums of infiltration" except clothes.


Still, it would be a nice touch for the player to dress appropriately if the situation requires it, as opposed to wearing the exact same set of clothes for several days straight. :thumbsup:

rynn taylor
15th Oct 2008, 11:30
This doesn't make any sense. If DX is about options and choices, why couldn't you choose to switch your suit after taking down a guy? :scratch:

You should say that you don't like the idea rather than "DX has different mediums of infiltration" except clothes.

:thumbsup:


It does make sense Jordan a – look at the whole post:

“I agree with what WHF is saying. To me, DX is not about disguises. If you want to be sneaky and infiltrate then you have a number of options: lockpick, multitool and hacks skills and or simply moving from cover to cover. It also might be harder to employ disguises in DX3 depending upon how visible Adam's augs are.”

Let me attempt to explain myself to you.

First, I am saying that I am not in favour of the idea. You can infer from the second sentence that I am not in favour of disguises being employed in DX3. You can also tell from the first sentence and my agreement with WHF that I am not for disguises.

Second, I prefer DX1’s options for infiltration. The third sentence informs the preceding sentence and explains why I am not in favour of disguises: namely, I prefer the range of options presented in DX1. You can also infer from my agreement with WHF that if I wanted to play a game with a disguise game mechanic I would ( Hitman being the example cited by WHF).

Third, I hint that there may be problems in implementing the disguises in DX3. In the fourth sentence I simply give an example of what might be a difficulty in employing disguises as a game mechanic in DX3.

In summary, I have said that I am not in favour of the idea because I prefer DX1’s options for infiltration and I also provide an example of what might be a problem in employing disguises as a game mechanic in DX3.

rokstrombo
15th Oct 2008, 11:53
One thing I did not like about the earlier Deus Ex games was that the enemies completely forgot about you and their dead comrades if you stayed out of sight for about 30 seconds. The music changed abruptly to inform you of this status. I couldn't help but exploit this in order to finish the game. The general procedure for clearing an area was to release a tranquilizer dart at one or two enemies, then run to an area where you were inaccessible and wait for them to pass out (effectively killing them). The music would eventually change back to the exploration track and anyone who was disturbed would casually step over their dead coworkers and resume their patrol. The player hits quick save, and repeats this process for most of the game. In higher difficulty settings of course, you needed to combine this with other tactics, so the game was still challenging. All the same, I felt the game was less immersive than it could have been.

Changing suits worked so well in the Hitman series (as well as the suspicion meter, enemy body language and limited save games) because it encouraged the player to spend extended periods in the game world observing the levels "rules" and planning their moves. The downside to this system though was that a single mistake could force the player to repeat the whole map again. Changing suits allowed the player to occasionally break the rules, provided that the witnesses were eliminated. The player is punished for making a mess, but granted the opportunity to clean it up in a timely manner. This prevents the player from replaying very small areas over and over due to a poor shot, and also gets rid of the "alert time out" exploit / feature from the earlier Deus Ex games.

I'm very excited about the possible social features of Deus Ex 3. I don't think disguises will be part of the game due to mechanical augmentations. But perhaps NPCs will respond to you differently based on the augmentations that you carry. Certain NPCs could be threatened, or repulsed or jealous and act accordingly. Perhaps your ability to blend in with unmodified humans could be reduced by your choice in mods. Mechanical augmentation were described as a big sacrifice for people to make in Deus Ex 1, and I hope that this will be expanded on in Deus Ex 3.

Lo Bruto
15th Oct 2008, 15:57
Why I would change my clothes if I'll blast everyone on sight with my assault rifle?

DX is not a stealth game. It can be one.
Every feature of the game must fit in the "Rambo" style and the "Stealth" one.

It's not nice to put features in the game that will please only certain gamers.
The same thing would happen if EM decided to put an intricate and complex combo system to please Melee players.

Would you use that to sneak into a building? No.

ZylonBane
15th Oct 2008, 17:46
It's not nice to put features in the game that will please only certain gamers.
You've never actually played Deus Ex, have you?

Abram730
15th Oct 2008, 20:05
I agree with what WHF is saying. To me, DX is not about disguises. If you want to be sneaky and infiltrate then you have a number of options: lockpick, multitool and hacks skills and or simply moving from cover to cover (maybe even hiding in the dark along the way :D ).

It also might be harder to employ disguises in DX3 depending upon how visible Adam's augs are.

I also don't like the idea of taking clothes all that much.

If anything have it as an Aug. A choice between OLED matrix to blend you to background or one change to look of the protagonist for infiltration.

Having a suit or implanted organic light emitting diodes would consume power. the choice of looking like a person you darted or killed vs just being harder to see would need to be made. Also it's stealthy, without total invisibility. You can even apply stats to it as both blending and infiltration take skill. projecting the correct direction to guards. as in if your off with your angles the images don't quite match.
Acting in rapport with guard movements. If you don't then they may come closer and realize your uniform's pockets and patches are just textures. An infiltration matrix would use different tech that I can't find a good technical explination for http://neurophilosophy.wordpress.com/2006/12/09/super-reflective-protein-found-in-octopus-skin/
that reflective layer covered in a liquid to solid pixels. So like a LCD TV except in the liquid state they change color and then solidify or gel into an exact color. again I can't guess on what it will be called.

this is done with a projector(not an oled matrix)
http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/10/14/business/gazprom.php

With a multi layer plot and multi path maps I don't want them to get bogged down in clothing changes. If this were added I'd think that simply mixing the texture with alpha or changing the texture would be the way to go vs all the animation in changing uniforms. simply turn it on for oled and it drains or when the body is highlighted activate and that's the power drain.

But again I don't want the programmers to get bogged down in things like this and dx isn't hitman and it would seem like infiltration would tak a lot of AI work not to seem uber of cheesy.

El_Bel
16th Oct 2008, 00:35
Deus Ex is about choices to a degree. This is not a game series where "anything goes". If this game operates anything like the first two, playing dress-up is going to be horribly out of place.

Using disguises is best left to third person games and even in those confines, Hitman's the only game that should do it. The disguise segment of Red Faction (FPS) was easily the worst part of that game. They just threw in unnecessary mechanics that didn't apply to the game's foundation and ended up creating a lull period.

Which is exactly what it would be in Deus Ex 3.

IW even had a summoner class!! But that didnt break the game for me!! If you dont like it dont use it!! I think it makes total sense to allow the players to infiltrate using a fake ID and suit. It would make dialogs a true choice for playing the game.

Lo Bruto
16th Oct 2008, 01:24
You've never actually played Deus Ex, have you?

What you talking about?

Back to the topic, Why in the hell I would change my outfit if I'm willing to play the Rambo style?
That's what I was saying. The game's features must be used by any player, regardless of his/her playing style.
Otherwise it's dull.

Imagine if Eidos Montrel put a Bullet Time in DX3. How stealth players would use it? I guess crawling through air shafts in slow motion is not fun at all.

CarloGervasi
16th Oct 2008, 01:46
The fact that someone out there believes you shouldn't put a feature in a game unless it can be used by every single player on every single play style sheds some light on why developers feel the need to include things like universal ammo and automatic health regeneration now a days.

WhatsHisFace
16th Oct 2008, 01:59
The fact that someone out there believes you shouldn't put a feature in a game unless it can be used by every single player on every single play style sheds some light on why developers feel the need to include things like universal ammo and automatic health regeneration now a days.

I think in the context of what was being said, he was talking about adding things that weren't in Deus Ex, such as the "melee combos" and "Hitman-style disguises."

Because seriously, what kind of target audience is "everyone"? It's so stupid to make a game with that intention.

CarloGervasi
16th Oct 2008, 02:02
It doesn't matter, it's the idea behind it. Stealth players probably won't have too much use for guns, so go ahead and toss them. And Rambo players won't have too much use for stealth, so go ahead and toss it too. It's a fundamentally bad idea. So bad you have to ask yourself how anyone managed to express it without first realizing what a bad idea it was and stopping themselves. Disguises are a similarly bad idea, but not because not everyone would use them.

FrankCSIS
16th Oct 2008, 02:26
Thing with Hitman is, the entire game somewhat revolved around the costume changing structure, and that from the very first game. I don't know how many times I've heard the Chinese bodyguard say "You're not the freakin' driver!". So much in fact that I've made it an annoying catchphrase.

Tossing it like an accessory instead of incorporating it in the core structure would most likely feel out of place, and opens the door for very annoying glitches. This said, I'm very much in favor of adapting the clothes to the circumstances. Without taking on goofy disguises, it's sometimes appropriate to be a little less conspicuous than the bad mother****er with the sunglasses inside and the schoolyard killer trench coat.

Mafia did it pretty well in the sense that the clothing evolved with the social status but was also usually adapted to the environment or the nature of the mission. When posing as a truck driver, even though you were pretty powerful and influential by that time, you weren't wearing the expensive suit and fedora. It only makes sense. Hell, Police Quest in 1984 had you change from uniform to civilian clothes when off duty.

As for playing dress-up like GTA or Saints Row, while a fun commodity at first it's getting pretty useless. Next time I see it in a game I'll just leave my character in boxers and start running around shooting people in the streets.

rynn taylor
16th Oct 2008, 04:39
Hell, Police Quest in 1984 had you change from uniform to civilian clothes when off duty.


Ah, Police Quest, Space Quest, Kings Quest......so many fond memories.

El_Bel
16th Oct 2008, 08:42
What you talking about?

Back to the topic, Why in the hell I would change my outfit if I'm willing to play the Rambo style?
That's what I was saying. The game's features must be used by any player, regardless of his/her playing style.
Otherwise it's dull.

Imagine if Eidos Montrel put a Bullet Time in DX3. How stealth players would use it? I guess crawling through air shafts in slow motion is not fun at all.

I have finished the game without using any ranged weapon!! Lets not include ranged weapons in DX3 :0 Hell, i havent used LAM's in most of my runs. Why have them? They dont help stealth players..

gamer0004
16th Oct 2008, 16:45
I love the idea. I always thought it was strange that nobody recognised JC even though he was always wearing the same clothes. Should've been easy to describe him "man in baggy trenchcoat that makes him look bigger than he is, always wears sunglasses, even at night, dark hair".

Lo Bruto
16th Oct 2008, 17:47
The fact that someone out there believes you shouldn't put a feature in a game unless it can be used by every single player on every single play style sheds some light on why developers feel the need to include things like universal ammo and automatic health regeneration now a days.

When I said everyone, I was talking about everyone playing DX. Like everyone here in the foruns. Not that the game should be targeted to everyone. I may have used the wrong expression, sorry for that, I'm not a native english speaker.


I have finished the game without using any ranged weapon!! Lets not include ranged weapons in DX3 :0 Hell, i havent used LAM's in most of my runs. Why have them? They dont help stealth players..


It doesn't matter, it's the idea behind it. Stealth players probably won't have too much use for guns, so go ahead and toss them.

Can't you understand the difference between a weapon and an entire concept in the game? It's a whole different thing, guys.
I'm not complaining about the cattle prod nor the baton because I never used them.


And Rambo players won't have too much use for stealth, so go ahead and toss it too. It's a fundamentally bad idea.

That's my point, CarloGervasi. Stealth is not a button, that you press and voilĂ*, 'you are stealth'. You can play stealth if you're willing to. That's about you and the game. If I choose not to play stealth, my problem.

Changing clothes is not like that. It's a feature. You stand by a dead guy and press a key, now you have the guy's clothes. How I'd use that if I'm not playing stealth? And that key? It will just be there without an use?

Bullet-time is an interesting feature in action games. Oh snap! I just realized that DX can be played like an action game, so let's put it into the game code.

Combo system is an interesting feature in melee-oriented games. Oh snap! I just realized that DX can be played entirely with a sword, so let's put it into the game code.

That's what you guys want? If so, fine to me. I'd love a bullet-time. I'd love to press a key and jump in slow motion just like in Max Payne. But I'm not selfish to want a bullet-time since you guys, stealth players, would not use it.

CarloGervasi
17th Oct 2008, 01:56
Can't you understand the difference between a weapon and an entire concept in the game?
Yes, can you? Because I wasn't talking about a particular item or weapon, but rather an entire style of play, as a satire of the ridiculous "if it won't be used by everyone, toss it" line of thinking. Disguises are a horrible idea, but you've totally missed the point of why, and presented your own horrible idea in the process.

JakePeriphery
29th Oct 2008, 23:30
Since they're making a fictional new fashion trend I thought it might be cool to be able to change what clothes Adam wears during the game. Before I get flamed please understand that this is just an idea I had not expecting this to be implemented in anyway nor is it a deal breaker with me buying the game.

For example the one thing I always thought weird in DX1 was JC running around wearing combat boots/ballistic vest/ and trench coat in the middle of the city or ocean lab - it makes him stick out like a sore thumb. It would make for a nice extension of the stealth system enabling Adam to change his attire based on the situation by being able to wear the attire of his enemy and slipping in unoticed.

GmanPro
29th Oct 2008, 23:36
Yeah maybe changing your clothes would be cool if they did it properly. But I don't really want to deal with managing my appearance all that much.

JakePeriphery
29th Oct 2008, 23:39
Yeah maybe changing your clothes would be cool if they did it properly. But I don't really want to deal with managing my appearance all that much.

The way MGS2 handled it was pretty cool.

GmanPro
29th Oct 2008, 23:46
I'm worried that if the devs pour too much energy and resources into a system like that then they are going to want you (the players) to experience it. So then they make changing your clothes mandatory like some sort of CRPG that involves constantly changing out your armor for better stuff. Then there's the chance that I'll be forced to put on some ugly piece of crap just because it has better stats than my cool leather trench coat. But I digress...

JakePeriphery
29th Oct 2008, 23:54
I'm worried that if the devs pour too much energy and resources into a system like that then they are going to want you (the players) to experience it. So then they make changing your clothes mandatory like some sort of CRPG that involves constantly changing out your armor for better stuff. Then there's the chance that I'll be forced to put on some ugly piece of crap just because it has better stats than my cool leather trench coat. But I digress...

Well it would clearly be for subterfuge wouldn't have any effect on how much damage you would take.

GmanPro
30th Oct 2008, 00:03
That reminds me about the thermoptic camouflage from DX. Theres also the environment suits. I can see having Adam put on one of those suits or like a ballistic vest.

As far as actually changing for purely aesthetic purposes such as switching to some sort of uniform to blend in with the rest of whatever faction your infiltrating :scratch: ... maybe.

I don't really see it as that big of a deal whether they include something like that or not.

DXeXodus
30th Oct 2008, 05:43
Merged thread with our current thread about suit/clothing switching.

JakePeriphery
30th Oct 2008, 05:52
That reminds me about the thermoptic camouflage from DX. Theres also the environment suits. I can see having Adam put on one of those suits or like a ballistic vest.

As far as actually changing for purely aesthetic purposes such as switching to some sort of uniform to blend in with the rest of whatever faction your infiltrating :scratch: ... maybe.

I don't really see it as that big of a deal whether they include something like that or not.

Because it would add to the depth of the stealth based gamer and the RPG aspect as a whole. You seem like a console gamer to me?

Laokin
30th Oct 2008, 07:30
Why I would change my clothes if I'll blast everyone on sight with my assault rifle?

DX is not a stealth game. It can be one.
Every feature of the game must fit in the "Rambo" style and the "Stealth" one.

It's not nice to put features in the game that will please only certain gamers.
The same thing would happen if EM decided to put an intricate and complex combo system to please Melee players.

Would you use that to sneak into a building? No.

Um, yeah it is.... it's totally nice to put an array of features in your game... even if you don't use them all. And yes, they are having a hand to hand combat system... one can only hope it will feature combos. If they allow me to go hand to hand and not combo... then I vote they should take away automatic fire for rifles while they are at it. A.) You don't have to use the hand to hand.... B.) Hand to hand makes sense in any game... ESPECIALLY one with biomods to give you super strength and punch through walls. I swear, if I have the option to go stealth/hand to hand in DX 3 I'mma gonna be so excited. They already had swords and stuff... there just wasn't enough depth for me to actually justify running a melee build, but... after all the option was always there, so why not build on it?

"It's not nice to put features in the game that will please only certain gamers." So you imply that ever gamer in the world wants STEALTH and RAMBO action in their games... Thats not nice. Ya know, to imply that I EVER want a Rambo experience.... that's for the movie's and should stay there... if I was gonna run and gun -- I prefer a more realistic less action oriented shooting mechanic. Explosions everywhere, taking 400 bullets killing 30 dudes at once, yeah it's cool... yeah it belongs in DX -- it makes sense.... but it's simply not for me and wouldn't really affect my game play experience if it wasn't there at all.

So why shouldn't the Rambo style be innovated.... at the same time upgrade the stealth system... and add in a competent hand to hand melee system. The more choices the better.... = more replay value if you want to try to experience the game from a different perspective. I for one don't know anybody who played any DX game multiple times with the EXACT same build. It's just... well kinda boring when you know there are other ways to do things.

Please try to be more open minded here... that's what Deus Ex is really all about. Freedom.... play the game how you want... the way you want it.

But I have an Idea... what about a bio mod that scans and enemy and then projects that image to everyone around you. Sort of like an alternative to the cloaking bio mod(not saying take cloaking out.. but simply add this one in.) You guys seen the new Japanese Nano Tech Invisible sweaters? They exist... they are real, and this is what they do essentially it always scans what's around you and projects the back so you essentially see right through the object, they also used it to make a dude look like a walking skeleton... and it worked. It's a more sensible solution than running around stripping dudes naked. The biggest problem with hitman, was when you took an outfit the old one just layed there... and nobody else was able to see it. Always looked kinda stupid to me... wish they would of made a way to throw out the uniforms on the ground. But yeah.... DX is a world of Tech, so how about a chameleon projector aug.... it's not even a thing from the movies...

Kaze103
30th Oct 2008, 10:55
You guys seen the new Japanese Nano Tech Invisible sweaters? They exist... they are real, and this is what they do essentially it always scans what's around you and projects the back so you essentially see right through the object, they also used it to make a dude look like a walking skeleton... and it worked.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2004/jun/13/japan.research

I couldn't find any pictures. Are there any? This is quite off topic but you got me interested now!

I'm really unsure about changing clothes. I don't wanna see him wearing the exact same thing all the way through the game, but I'm not sure about making clothes changing an integral part of gameplay. I think it may be taking it that little step too far in one direction.

EDIT: is this it? http://www.theuniversesolved.com/theuniversesolved/blog/image.axd?picture=invisibility_cloak.jpg
EDIT 2: yes, it is i think. http://www.i4u.com/article1563.html

Laokin
30th Oct 2008, 18:10
http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2004/jun/13/japan.research

I couldn't find any pictures. Are there any? This is quite off topic but you got me interested now!

I'm really unsure about changing clothes. I don't wanna see him wearing the exact same thing all the way through the game, but I'm not sure about making clothes changing an integral part of gameplay. I think it may be taking it that little step too far in one direction.

EDIT: is this it? http://www.theuniversesolved.com/theuniversesolved/blog/image.axd?picture=invisibility_cloak.jpg
EDIT 2: yes, it is i think. http://www.i4u.com/article1563.html

Sorry... I was sleeping, but yeah that's it.... it's far from perfection.... but it does exist. Just think about 17 years where that will be... I think that the perfect example of DX style tech in RL.

Lady_Of_The_Vine
30th Oct 2008, 18:20
The invisible can wait.... I want nano "self-clean" material in clothing. :p
Washing-machines should be obsolete... they wasted water, were not energy-efficient... oh, and they made too much noise! :D

mouse
30th Oct 2008, 19:51
The invisible can wait.... I want nano "self-clean" material in clothing. :p
Washing-machines should be obsolete... they wasted water, were not energy-efficient... oh, and they made too much noise! :D

oh... I'm sure they'll invent a water-saving, energy-efficient and noiseless washing machine soon. Actually the latest generation is already much more efficient compared to the infrastructure you need to mass-produce nano-clothings.... I guess :scratch:

*visualizes MrsP racing with a washing machine * http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=7qR8YE9jstU

Lady_Of_The_Vine
30th Oct 2008, 20:02
oh... I'm sure they'll invent a water-saving, energy-efficient and noiseless washing machine soon. Actually the latest generation is already much more efficient compared to the infrastructure you need to mass-produce nano-clothings.... I guess :scratch:
Yeah, but what would be the point of the washing machine?
You have to wear clothes anyway (normally), so the washing machine doesn't need to be around. :p
Mass-produced nano-clothes will become as cheap as chips, eventually. :)



*visualizes MrsP racing with a washing machine * http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=7qR8YE9jstU

LOL, that looks fun. Maybe there's a use for them yet. :D

mouse
30th Oct 2008, 20:09
Yeah, but what would be the point of the washing machine?
You have to wear clothes anyway (normally), so the washing machine doesn't need to be around. :p
Mass-produced nano-clothes will become as cheap as chips, eventually. :)


maybe... I hope so
Anyway, it's not ressource-efficient just like the production of computers or cars is not efficient. Of course we dont want to calculate with wooden sticks or go by donkey...




LOL, that looks fun. Maybe there's a use for them yet. :D

yes, keep your machine at least for this (I do hope you didn't abondon it already...*whats that smell?*)

Lady_Of_The_Vine
30th Oct 2008, 23:12
@ smelling! :eek: How dare you! http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc159/eternaltreasure/verymad-1.gif

LOL :D


Hehe, do not worry, the future looks bright-white! :p
Nano-cleaning will include the iradication of bacteria... in fact, nano will remove more bacteria from your clothing than even the most intensive wash cyle in a machine. ;)
So, not only do you get 'whiter-than-white' (impossible?! okay, bluey-white then? lol) clean but odour-free too. ;)

Do I boast domestic prowess? No, not at all! I hate housework! :mad2:
That's why I want "nano".... so bad! :rasp:

mouse
31st Oct 2008, 07:20
@ smelling! :eek: How dare you! http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc159/eternaltreasure/verymad-1.gif

LOL :D


I'm sure you have the scent of a blossoming spring flower ;)



err... back to topic

I think it doesn't add much to the game if you change clothes all the time. Of course, if you are jailed, they should take away that stylish trench coat from you and replace it with nice prisoners dress... in pink or orange. It was kind of strange in DX1, wasn't it :nut:

Romeo
31st Oct 2008, 07:34
Why I would change my clothes if I'll blast everyone on sight with my assault rifle?

DX is not a stealth game. It can be one.
Every feature of the game must fit in the "Rambo" style and the "Stealth" one.

It's not nice to put features in the game that will please only certain gamers.
The same thing would happen if EM decided to put an intricate and complex combo system to please Melee players.

Would you use that to sneak into a building? No.
Hm, I have to disagree with your reasoning here, but not your point. I don't mind a develloper giving certain advantages one way or the other, provided balance is maintained. Besides, I'll probably go nuts a few times too, but I love nothing more than to customize my character.

Lady_Of_The_Vine
1st Nov 2008, 10:37
The idea of changing clothes really only appeals to me if there is a purpose to it. You know, like being able to gain access into certain areas, just like you can do in Hitman.

Jerion
1st Nov 2008, 12:08
Pretty much. If there isn't a need to do it for any reason story or gameplay-wise, it could easily become a useless, albeit fun gimmick.

And for frak's sake, don't bring the auto-regen thing into this...it's already spawned/hijacked at least 10 threads, if not more. Let it stay there.

GmanPro
3rd Nov 2008, 07:05
You seem like a console gamer to me?

:eek: Blasphemy!

Lady_Of_The_Vine
3rd Nov 2008, 09:15
Hahaha... :D

Voltaire
3rd Nov 2008, 16:25
Has it been discussed that clothes changes might be practical and necessary? There is PCZone talk of an Aug whereby the protagonist releases an explosive burst of debris from his person, which would probably tear up all his clothing. Surely a bit of patching up would be necessary after such an occurence, rather than treating us to a full body view of Adam's *ahem* augmentations.

Bloodwolf806
3rd Nov 2008, 21:19
Deus Ex is about choices!! If you dont like it, dont dress up!! But i find it pretty interesting for Deus Ex!! I cant understand why it would ruin your experience if they add another choice for approach.

I agree.

zauxz
16th Nov 2008, 10:11
Sorry if a similar topic was allready discussed, since im too lazy to search the forum. :whistle:

So, my idea, is that adam could switch clothing ( not hitman style), but buy them or something. Buying a pair of sneakers, could increase your run speed, jump distance or ability to stay hidden, while buying something like a coat could increase inventory size, or even decrease damage taken. What do you think? :o

ewanlaing
16th Nov 2008, 10:39
It's fundamentally a good idea, but I wouldn't want anything as obvious as sneakers increasing running speed. A dark coat could provide more inventory space, and perhaps increase stealth (though it's a cover based system, so not really).

Lady_Of_The_Vine
16th Nov 2008, 12:54
I don't mind having a choice, provided it doesn't take up the devs time when they could be just concentrating on making an amazing game. :)

GmanPro
16th Nov 2008, 18:46
Maybe a little bit off-topic, but since we are talking about choices. What about changing how AJ looks?

I take it you will have to play as AJ this time, not like IW where you could play as a chick.

Also, DX1 let you change how JC looked... might we be able to do that in DX3 also?

PS, even if we can change how AJ looks, I probably won't bother. :thumbsup:

Jerion
16th Nov 2008, 19:43
I don't see why they wouldn't allow you to change the colors of his skin/hair/outfit if his design allows for them while still looking good. :thumbsup:

Whee, post 500!

Jerion
16th Nov 2008, 21:26
Given the quality of the screenshots, I think they'll do all the cinematics in-engine (or whatever the term is) instead of pre-rendered. :)

GmanPro
16th Nov 2008, 21:44
Good to know. :thumbsup:

I think in-game cutscenes actually look better anyway.

K^2
16th Nov 2008, 22:55
If it'll have pre-rendered cinematics a la IW (and DX1 on Playstation), and if we'll see Adam in them, customizing clothes and appearance may have to be discarded.
What do you mean, pre-rendered? In IW only the intro-outro were pre-rendered. And these can remain with whatever clothes they chose as default with no harm. As long as cut-scenes are rendered in-engine, it will be fine.

2030
17th Nov 2008, 01:24
Clothes are ok with me. But lets not encourage our friends up at the controls to pour everything onto the eye-candy and nothing into the game quality.

CommanderHomer
18th Nov 2008, 20:37
I think this is a good idea so far as customization is concerned and i do enjoy having these kinda options, but i would rather have thing like more gmeplay or online- a necessary part of DX3 in my opinion, coz it worked REALLY well in 1, part none it 2, so maybe some sort of unlockable costumes for this??? because there weren't many in dx1. But, maybe, if it didn't take up too much of the game, that could be used for more weapons etc a few suits would be good, or, if there is online, maybe just have various costumes/more/unlockable costumes for online. But, to be honest i am kinda talking more for console gaming, coz, despite the fact i had dx and dxiw for pc, my pc has broken down and so i am now on mac, so i have been deprived of dx for 1/2 a year :'( coz its sooo hard to find for mac osx, so maybe this isnt wat pc gamers want, i dunno, still gr8 thread, ty. :D

hem dazon 90
7th Jan 2009, 21:34
:eek: Blasphemy!

this forum has so many pc snobs its crazy

hem dazon 90
7th Jan 2009, 21:37
Maybe a little bit off-topic, but since we are talking about choices. What about changing how AJ looks?

I take it you will have to play as AJ this time, not like IW where you could play as a chick.

Also, DX1 let you change how JC looked... might we be able to do that in DX3 also?

PS, even if we can change how AJ looks, I probably won't bother. :thumbsup:


as long as the albino image is in i will be happy so far jc is the only fictional hero who is an albino like myself

Jerion
7th Jan 2009, 21:38
And at the same time, most of the people on this forum seem a notch above the rest on the internet intelligence scale.

Blade_hunter
8th Jan 2009, 00:22
Suits / clothes can be only a graphical option up to a true gameplay element

Suits / clothes as a disguise, the most interesting thing for a stealth player, not a full camouflage, but we can go closer to a potential enemy since we don't do anything suspect like have a weapon in hand or a tool that sounds to be suspect for example.
Hitman is a good example but if we have body awareness and an indicator in our HUD we don't need to switch in a 3rd person view

The other thing can be the utility suit like in the first DX, because if we have to pass a radioactive zone and we haven't the appropriate biomod I don't think the game must punish the player to don't choose this mod, and propose an Hazmat as an alternate solution to pass through the hazardous zone for example ....

The clothing can be used in an other manner, the interaction with an NPC and the extension of this element go up by our choices in a conversation and our equipped mods our mechanical augmentations can be beautiful for some persons and awful for some others.
In our world the appearance is important, but it doesn't do all but it can be a gameplay element

I just think our basic character building can be simple, but if we can change suits in the game world, the sunglasses or what available accessory we want can add some changes in a conversation and can eventually change the NPC opinion, about us.
I think if some things like this can give any little changes it can increase the replayability of the game even if some details aren't important it can increase the immersion, because our appearance have an incidence in the world ...

The principal things I want are suits as a disguise and utility, but the other option can be fun even if it can a be a simple immersion gadget or eventually a true world interaction.

NK007
8th Jan 2009, 01:28
Please don't give me the option the way Adam looks. In my heart I know I'll have to change him to a pink-haired, purple trenchcoat, sunglasses wearing, tattooed secret agent with a penchant for large amount of piercing.

iWait
8th Jan 2009, 06:48
I don't care for the idea of clothing too much, there's a fine line between a well balanced system and either looks-only aesthetic clothing, and clothes with outright stats.

I would prefer a system that worked like this: You can find clothes, armor or gear in various places (would have to make sense, you wouldn't find experimental Dragonskin body armor in the nice old ladies apartment), or purchase clothing a gear from small stores, military depots, corrupt police cheifs, w/e. You could then look at the clothing/gear, along with a brief description that gives you an estimation of its effects on you. For instance, those biohazard containment boots might protect you from that puddle of Gray blood over there, but its gonna be damned hard to swim in them, while flippers are gonna be equally hard to walk in (not to mention the fact that your gonna make a lot of noise)

GmanPro
8th Jan 2009, 08:39
And at the same time, most of the people on this forum seem a notch above the rest on the internet intelligence scale.

... Coincidence? :scratch:

Blade_hunter
8th Jan 2009, 09:51
What players wants about clothes ?
Gameplay element or only a think to enhance our visual appearance ...

I want a gameplay element, but I don't think this is the opinion of everyone but it can be cool or not ...

GmanPro
8th Jan 2009, 10:33
If your gear (weapon mods, ballistic vests, thermoptic camo (or whatever if that's too high tech), Night vision goggles, and anything new that EM has come up with) changes how you look, then I think that would be more than adequate. I don't think that having customizable trenchcoats is really necessary.

spm1138
8th Jan 2009, 12:05
You'll be seeing yourself more this time. I think it'd be good. I don't even want to wear a trenchcoat. I'm not a goth and even they mostly look stupid in them.

NK007
8th Jan 2009, 19:07
I think I would break the DX disc in half in JC wasn't wearing a trenchcoat. That being said, I would sooner incinerate myself than walk in one IRL (I want to headbutt trenchcoat mobsters every time I see em).

Blade_hunter
8th Jan 2009, 19:54
If you can wear enemy clothes or any clothe you want in the game
customize details at the beginning isn't necessary, but it depends what customization we want
A customization like the first UT for example like DX 1/2 or like oblivion ...
I think like UT would be sufficient but with a restricted amount of models 10 main models and 10 faces and 3 skin colors would be great and give some choices.
but it depends ...
I just think the main clothe should be close to JC / alex style, if we can change suits in game. I don't think having a lot of details at the beginning is very important and more if we can wear a sunglasses or a hat by pick it up during the game ...

GmanPro
9th Jan 2009, 05:51
You'll be seeing yourself more this time. I think it'd be good. I don't even want to wear a trenchcoat. I'm not a goth and even they mostly look stupid in them.

Does JC look like a goth? Does a trenchcoat look stupid on him?

I rest my case...

Spiffmeister
10th Jan 2009, 17:43
It would be a cool feature I suppose, but necessary would suck IMO.

Besides, as if you can hide all those mechmod wires under a t-shirt :D .

GmanPro
10th Jan 2009, 19:15
If I can alter my appearance via clothing, then I'm gonna totally try to look like Gunther. I wonder if you can get bigger with steroid augs or something... :whistle:

spm1138
10th Jan 2009, 23:32
Does JC look like a goth? Does a trenchcoat look stupid on him?

I rest my case...

Yes and yes :rasp:

He wears sun glasses indoors for pities sake.

Lilith
11th Jan 2009, 20:49
ARGH!

You're all missing a few key points.

The first game its pretty clear why he is in the same get up.
He bugger all downtime, its in like what 48 hours?


The game's features must be used by any player, regardless of his/her playing style.
Otherwise it's dull.

How the hell is that dull?
A function the game that you don't use,.. dull?

I don't use the Pepper Spray? Is it dull NO it adds to the game.

That said, we're old fans. We expect in some ways a level of mature feeling from this game when it comes out.

Playing dress up, is not that. Its a gimmick, the hell I want a gimmick. There is no way to implement proper outfit changing without a large scale change to the core mechanics of the game. Something I know I sure as hell don't want unless you're talking about IW in which cause go play with your universal ammo.

Ok, more to the core. Its Deus Ex, unless its deep its going to take away from the game. Everything has to be covered we want to be taken so into the world that we being to think along its lines, attitudes, develop feelings for the characters.

I gotta clear up the possible contradiction that could get pointed out here.

There is no such thing as a game play mechanic existing making the game dull, WITHIN reason.

Ok, so for example you're rambo. Lockpicks might be useless to you. They only really cater to the stealthy type. That doesn't make the game dull for you.

HOWEVER.

A clothing swap would be for two reasons, visuals or prac (and in that, cameo or disguise).

These are very distinct game styles, Cameo would make this game feel too much MGS and with the LoS system they're putting in. Redundant too.

If you disguise yourself, I feel so damn cheapened. Deus Ex is not Spy game like this, the spying aspect if it exists is closer to Cyber-Punk, not Splinter-Cell.

Your desire to not have a stagnate image of Jensen I do get. But, look at that aug changes. THAT I like, that is hot. That doesn't insult us with a mechanic designed for other games.

This is Deus Ex, it is open ended.

BUT IT IS NOT A SANDBOX

Blade_hunter
11th Jan 2009, 22:29
Deus ex ? not sandbox ? it's a bit sandbox even if it's not fully it is a bit, all sandbox games can allow you to try to defeat an enemy with different ways not with only a different weapon.

And deus ex is an opened gameplay game this game have the unique ability to allow brute force players and stealthy players to play at the same game
it's the same for the guy's that play violently or peacefully.
That's the DX strength !

Lilith
11th Jan 2009, 22:52
Deus ex ? not sandbox ? it's a bit sandbox even if it's not fully it is a bit, all sandbox games can allow you to try to defeat an enemy with different ways not with only a different weapon.

And deus ex is an opened gameplay game this game have the unique ability to allow brute force players and stealthy players to play at the same game
it's the same for the guy's that play violently or peacefully.
That's the DX strength !

Its strength is 100% that.
But disguises and clothe swapping would be so out of place in it.
and
No, its not a sandbox. Its open ended, but you have a set mission and side missions. Its liner enough that it can tell a story with a lot of emotional connection and a time line.

When I say its not a sandbox game, I say its not a game you get haircuts, you change clothes, do missions to unlock guns and that kind of stuff. Its guiding you towards something and its open in approach to that, and picking up stuff along the way.

A little sandbox? I ..guess? but how?

jamhaw
11th Jan 2009, 22:59
Its strength is 100% that.
But disguises and clothe swapping would be so out of place in it.
and
No, its not a sandbox. Its open ended, but you have a set mission and side missions. Its liner enough that it can tell a story with a lot of emotional connection and a time line.

When I say its not a sandbox game, I say its not a game you get haircuts, you change clothes, do missions to unlock guns and that kind of stuff. Its guiding you towards something and its open in approach to that, and picking up stuff along the way.

A little sandbox? I ..guess? but how?

Personally I'd like it if they worked in disguises, after all Deus Ex does need some new things and that would, not ruin the spirit of the game like Universal Ammunition or Regenerating Health...

GmanPro
12th Jan 2009, 17:47
Yes and yes :rasp:

He wears sun glasses indoors for pities sake.

His vision is augmented! :p

If not a trenchcoat, then something similar because you have to try to cover up your epic mechanical augs, your combat shotgun, your assault rifle, your rocekt-propelled grenade launcher etc.

spm1138
13th Jan 2009, 00:05
A bloke in a bumpy trenchcoat looks plenty suspicious :rasp:

That's one of the things they could do with clothing system.

Have different clothing fit in better or worse and allow you conceal differing amounts of gear.

If you do have a GEP gun under your coat you'll pass cursory inspection only and the local po po / security officers will come over for a closer look.

If you don't and you go somewhere nice dressed like that they'll follow you around.

If you dress less suspiciously OTOH you'll be able to carry less (look at Jack Bauer's gear - only what he can fit in his handbag).