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Big Orange
9th Oct 2008, 13:29
Bob Page is likely going to be behind most of the evil schemes in DX3, although in 2027 he could be quite young and the far more interesting Walton Simons could only even be in his mid teens. But I still think MJ12 will be a major force in DX3 and they're a likely suspect in the attack on the laboratory you're working at, but who could be the charistmatic and coldly efficient enforcer in this story? And maybe we could shed some light on what the MIB/WIB actually are, although it is insinuated they're sophisticated cyborgs manipulated by narcotics that also boost their bodily functions.

~Psychotic~
9th Oct 2008, 13:46
Majestic 12 will have to be involved somewhat IMO otherwise the story won't make much sence. Paul is 8 in 2027, in 2019 (and somewhat before) MJ12 would've banded together and started the whole experiments on clones of Paul.

Dead-Eye
10th Oct 2008, 00:15
Yeah something that was missing form IW was a well known and defined enemy, IE MJ12. I'm sure they will make a comeback.

Page would be young and the Illuminati would still be in power, however page would be double dealing with MJ12 and the Illuminati at this time. Most likely someone else would be in charge of MJ12. Lucius DeBeers would be in charge of the Illuminati. Hell they could make the main antagonist DeBeers and make him really evil and at the end Jensen could be responsible for DeBeers's fate. Witch would add a slight amount of replay value to Deus Ex because the player could have a sudden feeling of longing or pity when they see Deus Ex 3's Evil overlord stuck in a fridge as some sort of talking Popsicle.

3nails4you
10th Oct 2008, 01:01
Majestic 12 will have to be involved somewhat IMO otherwise the story won't make much sence. Paul is 8 in 2027, in 2019 (and somewhat before) MJ12 would've banded together and started the whole experiments on clones of Paul.

Not necessarily. The Paul we know could easily be a clone of the original Paul, and JC from that Paul. There's no way to know who is behind what. I'd rather not assume anything and enjoy the game as it unfolds.

Dead-Eye
10th Oct 2008, 01:15
Not necessarily. The Paul we know could easily be a clone of the original Paul, and JC from that Paul. There's no way to know who is behind what. I'd rather not assume anything and enjoy the game as it unfolds.

Didn't we already take about this?!! Read the bible man: http://archive.gamespy.com/articles/april02/dxbible/

~Psychotic~
10th Oct 2008, 01:29
Not necessarily. The Paul we know could easily be a clone of the original Paul, and JC from that Paul. There's no way to know who is behind what. I'd rather not assume anything and enjoy the game as it unfolds.

Yeah... read the Deus Ex: Continuity Bible...

jordan_a
10th Oct 2008, 01:32
I like to think we will only witness the rise of Page through newspapers, tv or radio but not confront him directly. After, it's pretty early.

I don't see him as a perpetual nemesis you know what I mean?

jc_lemon_lime
10th Oct 2008, 01:35
Yeah something that was missing form IW was a well known and defined enemy, IE MJ12. I'm sure they will make a comeback.

Page would be young and the Illuminati would still be in power, however page would be double dealing with MJ12 and the Illuminati at this time. Most likely someone else would be in charge of MJ12. Lucius DeBeers would be in charge of the Illuminati. Hell they could make the main antagonist DeBeers and make him really evil and at the end Jensen could be responsible for DeBeers's fate. Witch would add a slight amount of replay value to Deus Ex because the player could have a sudden feeling of longing or pity when they see Deus Ex 3's Evil overlord stuck in a fridge as some sort of talking Popsicle.

i'm going to have to disagree with you on you first point: i thought that the lack of a villain was one of the things that made DX:IW interesting. as samon said: 'i am not evil; i simply oppose the views you have been conditioned to accept.'

on your second point: i agree that debeers would be a great candidate of the office of DX3's king-sum-b*tch. and it would be awesome to replay DX1 afterwards and think that it was adam shiving debeers with his arm-sword aug (or whatever that thing in the magazine pics is) is what put him on ice:thumbsup: :cool:

jordan_a
10th Oct 2008, 01:38
Wow, De Beers would be awesome knowing what happens to him.

Romeo
10th Oct 2008, 02:05
I'm surprised no one has mentioned the Illumnati. In Hell's Kitchen, it's mentioned that the Illumnati were "much more powerful and persuasive during the beginning of the millenium". Deus Ex 3 is very close to the beginning, meaning the Illumnati should be major players. I also wouldn't mind a few NEW organizations either, always interesting to hear what's motivating someone.

Big Orange
10th Oct 2008, 02:43
The Illuminati and MJ12 in the Deus Ex-verse are essentially one and the same thing, except that Majestic 12 was once the primary military-industral-intelligence wing of the Illuminati Order (which mostly seemed to be orientated more towards politics, religion, media, and finance). With the economic, social, and political collapse likely perpetrated in the events of DX3, soon after that MJ12 would have it's infrastructure still intact and it could more easily cast off the rest of the Illuminati that was thrown into disarray.

Romeo
10th Oct 2008, 03:16
But they are seperate and distinct from one another. It's true that the Illumnati created the Majestic 12, but they failed to contain them. And the means in which either party accomplishes their goals are fundamentally different (Majestic 12 take the direct approach, which war-time technology, whereas the Illumnati manipulate from the shadows, causing their enemies to destroy eachother, rather than doing it themselves).

K^2
10th Oct 2008, 03:50
If MJ12 are in the game, which is very likely, I don't figure them for enemies. They are the ones who push the augmentation program forward. I'm not sure how friendly protagonist will be with MJ12, and perhaps it is one of the choices we'll have to make as we play along, but at the very least, enemy of my enemy, right?

Big Orange
10th Oct 2008, 11:54
But they are seperate and distinct from one another. It's true that the Illumnati created the Majestic 12, but they failed to contain them. And the means in which either party accomplishes their goals are fundamentally different (Majestic 12 take the direct approach, which war-time technology, whereas the Illumnati manipulate from the shadows, causing their enemies to destroy eachother, rather than doing it themselves).

The Illuminati are much more patient and duplictious, although MJ12 were tactically underhanded too in DX1, even if they were strategically faster with a more defined powerbase behind them (a fictional Doctor Who style United Nations, with teeth, and the commercial juggernaut, Page Industries). And in the Prequel story of DX3 the Illuminati will likely have a more strongly defined identity in the story, it is at the very height of it's power, with Lucius DeBeers arguably the most powerful man in the world, Bob Page is just a student, and MJ12 is just one of the Illuminati Order's departments (but they have most of the guns).

Mindmute
10th Oct 2008, 16:30
Considering we learned from Dowd and Savage that Page's powerbase is the monopoly on technology and that Everett could easilly reverse-engineer all of it and turn the scales, I doubt MJ12 will be powerful enough to directly challenge the Illuminati yet.

I wonder if the end of the game will actually present MJ12 with the chance to overpower Everett and the others.. That would be quite a twist!

Big Orange
11th Oct 2008, 22:25
Considering we learned from Dowd and Savage that Page's powerbase is the monopoly on technology and that Everett could easilly reverse-engineer all of it and turn the scales, I doubt MJ12 will be powerful enough to directly challenge the Illuminati yet.

I wonder if the end of the game will actually present MJ12 with the chance to overpower Everett and the others.. That would be quite a twist!

Bob Page had seemingly unlimited resources in comparison to Morgan Everett and Dr. Savage, who both had the same technology that Bob Page had, but in much smaller quantity that could only launch a token counter attack on Bob Page's empire. Majestic 12 was the private army *** factory and arsenal for the Illuminati Order and would be in a perfect position to launch a coup; they could launch a coup as easily as the Pentagon could launch a coup against the Congress and White House, if the loyalty and trust has been irrevocably eroded, and it could happen much more easily with a top heavy autocracy that the Illuminati Order seems to be. That is what Deus Ex 3's plotline concerning the main antagonists hopefully going to be about.

Mindmute
12th Oct 2008, 09:48
Bob Page had seemingly unlimited resources in comparison to Morgan Everett and Dr. Savage, who both had the same technology that Bob Page had, but in much smaller quantity that could only launch a token counter attack on Bob Page's empire.

True, though I wonder if the resources had been there from the start. For all we know he might not have had all of MJ12 at his fingertips in the start of his defection.
If he did though it would help explain how he made an "entity" as powerful as the Illuminati somewhat irrelevant so fast.

Also sort of makes me wonder about the quote from Dowd I was basing my post on. Just pride on his part while saying that?