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Big Orange
6th Oct 2008, 12:59
From the stunning concept art and promising screenshots I've gleaned this:

The screenshots and concept art are taken from the same biomedical facility that you work at from the begining of the game and it is owned by a big corporation that hired your services (then augmented you with machinery). I think things supposedly looking more high-tech than DX1 with more flamboyant Renaissance fashion is a moot point, since graphical presentation has improved a hell of a lot in eight short years, so things will look much better by default no matter the setting.

The Renaissance clothing and architecture is not completely different and has in fact always been there: look at Walton Simons' strange dress sense, the nightclub fashion in Paris and Hong Kong, while Paris seemed to be a Renaissance hub falling into seed. And VersaLife's infamous MJ12 hallway with the giant hand clutching the globe looked more pretentious than any of the locations from DX3 shown so far: while technology for the general population may have degraded after a economic/social crash, Majestic 12 was the most powerful organization on the planet with almost unlimited resources, so why should they be affected by everything else failing?

I don't think Renaissance is a new concept to the Cyberpunk genre at all, in fact in Gibson's Neuromancer what was described about Tessier-Ashpool's gigantic Freeside habitat sounded very similar to what we've seen from DX3, with 19th century style French architecture and structures dotting the place (and didn't Case work for a Welsh criminal who wore Edwardian clothing?). UNATCO HQ had architecture and furniture that wouldn't look out of place in the 1960s and 1970s, the laboratory areas from DX3 objectively don't look much different to any MJ12 facility or Tracer Tong's hideout, except they're given a vastly superior graphical sheen.

I'd say the biomedical facility you work at caters to the super-rich, hence some of the areas looking like a Edwardian hotel. The big guy with the giant gun and bull beltbuckle is likely an initial ally like Gunther Hermann (who also seemed OTT by looking and sounding almost entirely like the Terminator). That Victorian/Edwardian office overlooking the big laboratory seems like the office for your boss who is likely loosely modelled upon Joseph Manderly, another character from DX1. The city of Shanghai sounds like a very promising location and it is no problem if it is similar to the cities from Invisble War, especially if they're making the locations more complicated and open ended. Neo-Shanghai reminds me a lot of Midgar from FFVII with wealthy people living topside of a giant plate, with high skyscrapers and wide open spaces, and the hoipolloi living below it, with shanty towns growing around the plate's stilts. A very dynamic and interesting location if done right, without the rushed corner cutting complained about in Invisible War.

René
6th Oct 2008, 21:50
From the stunning concept art and promising screenshots I've gleaned this:

Great post. Some things are right, some things are wrong. But well done. :thumbsup:

minus0ne
6th Oct 2008, 23:25
Just so this misunderstanding doesn't propagate any further:

Renaissance (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renaissance)
(actually a reasonable place to start)

The Renaissance is not an art style. Cyber-Renaissance may hint at a cultural movement, but the Renaissance was much more than that; it was the first time since classical history that man started to re-think everything they thought they knew (ie, people started to, for the first time in a millenium, doubt the Bible and Church's "understanding" of the world), on a grand scale. It's not just the birth of great artists' works (that was more like a consequence of the aforementioned change in thinking), it was basically the birth of the modern world, in many senses. Also, in my opinion, it spelled the beginning of the end of the unquestionable rule of all dominant monotheistic religions and religion in general.

I'm hoping Cyber-Renaissance is more than just an 'art style' for the Eidos Montreal devs and writers though, but also a theme concerning a real renaissance of sorts in the DX3 gameworld, ie a change in thinking.

What you see in the screenshots can best be described as a blend of Art Deco, Art Nouveau/Jugendstil and Cyberpunk - "Renaissance" doesn't enter the equation ;)

imported_van_HellSing
6th Oct 2008, 23:36
I already see renaissance themes from the teaser.

The flashing image sequence starts off with Leonardo da Vinci's anatomy sketches - in medieval times, the body was sacred, and you weren't supposed to try and find out how it works.

The renaissance started to change that, to some people's outrage, science was starting to look into the human body.

DX3 depicts a stage where another breakthrough: we're not just analysing the body anymore, we're augmenting it. Changing it. And according to some, desacrating it. Another paradigm shift, another renaissance.

piippo
6th Oct 2008, 23:36
Just so this misunderstanding doesn't propagate any further: Renaissance (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renaissance)
(actually a reasonable place to start)...

The Renaissance is not an art style....

What you see in the screenshots can best be described as a blend of Art Deco, Art Nouveau/Jugendstil and Cyberpunk - "Renaissance" doesn't enter the equation ;)

Well, you are wrong :o You shouldn't blindly rely on one(1) wikipedia article. Reneissance was very much a cultural movement, but it wasn't restricted to that. Art was very much involved in that too, so was architecture. So that we don't get more mixed up, please read more about the related articles, as this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renaissance_architecture

Big Orange
6th Oct 2008, 23:54
Great post. Some things are right, some things are wrong. But well done. :thumbsup:

What did I get right, what did I get wrong, without blowing too much? I know it must be very hard for you. :D

It is amusing that a handful of pretty screenshots and a few slightly uninformed quips from a magazine would get people into such a uproar, with the scant details and hearsay not revealing anything glaring about DX3.

René
7th Oct 2008, 00:33
Let's just say that there are some posts in this thread which are spot-on.

u r s-m-r-t

minus0ne
7th Oct 2008, 01:46
Well, you are wrong :o You shouldn't blindly rely on one(1) wikipedia article. Reneissance was very much a cultural movement, but it wasn't restricted to that. Art was very much involved in that too, so was architecture. So that we don't get more mixed up, please read more about the related articles, as this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renaissance_architecture
I wasn't relying on wikipedia, but rather recommending it as a place to start (as have you just now). What I said comes from what I was taught in arts history, latin (where we read Renaissance latin pieces) and history, which is a bit more comprehensive than what can be read on Wikipedia ;)

I didn't say art wasn't a component of the Renaissance, but that people were mixing up DX3 architecture with Renaissance architecture, where in fact it way more closely resembles Jugendstil and Art Deco (both much later architectural movements than the Renaissance).

piippo
7th Oct 2008, 01:52
Yes, you are correct. To my eyes it has elements from all of those directions.

Big Orange
7th Oct 2008, 02:18
Let's just say that there are some posts in this thread which are spot-on.

u r s-m-r-t

If a Renaissance or/and Industrial Revolution is the subject matter of DX3, European countries like Italy, France, and Britain would be interesting and appropriate places to visit in the game (Italy would be an old seat of power for the Illuminati organization but growing in irreverence as a young Bob Page's followers begin usurping De Beers' group, France would be a sleazy but wealthy technological mecca, and Britain would be a flooded slum with important R&D centres encircled by barbwire. Very Children of Men). China and India would be the real seats of economic power and America would perhaps be briefly on the rebound to catch up with the other two countries after a early 21st century economic crash (but of course it goes horribly wrong again, with India set back slightly by getting nuked).

DXeXodus
7th Oct 2008, 04:37
I think the renaissance theme forms an excellent foundation for a Deus Ex game. Especially a prequel. It is a striking theme both physically and theoretically. Its representation of new beginnings and "re-birth" are spot on in my opinion.

All of a sudden the trailer makes a lot of sense ;)

K^2
7th Oct 2008, 05:27
The Renaissance is not an art style.
Indeed. But if you refer to a style as "Cyber-Renaissance", it is still very descriptive. Granted, there is a very wide range of styles that are linked to the era during which Renaissance took place, but what we have seen so far of DX3 is also a mix of all these things. They did not pick a particular style. It's almost as if somebody wasn't quite sure exactly what style of architecture and clothes to mimic. Now, I know absolutely nothing about clothing, but I see at least 3 different, distinct architecture styles that I recognize. Somebody who actually studied architecture could probably see more.

And I don't think this is an oversight by developers, either. I think it is intended that way. And it makes sense. I mean, if people decided to copy old architecture styles all over the place, it is very unlikely that they'll decide on a particular style. There will probably be a fashion of some sort, like Baroque being in today, and Gothic arches tomorrow. But this will most certainly result in a wide range of things mixed together, with "Renaissance" not being a bad description for the mix.

Big Orange
8th Oct 2008, 17:10
In Blade Runner you have elaborate buildings that were very baroque like the famous Bradbury Building, Dr. Tyrell's inner sanctum and Deckerd's Art Deco shoebox apartment. Dr. Tyrell himself was dressed in an Edwardian business suit and I imagine the occuptant of that wood panelled office from one of DX3's screenshots would be similarily atired.

The rundown industrial areas and tennant blocks for the poor would be no thrills and utilitarian, and much more along the lines from what was seen for most of DX1 (only much better presented). Although it is a controversial opinion, I wouldn't mind it if some sections of DX3 took place in almost broad daylight, but still look very bleak and smoggy like Los Angeles or Bagdad. I get the impression that DX1 dark atmosphere was partially a happy accident, since the then limited graphics would've presented daytime as very flat and lacking in character, unlike the night.