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rg_001100
7th Oct 2008, 00:04
Do you think Lara Croft, adventurer of the Tomb Raider series, is more of a Hero or a Villain?


A hero that saves the world by raiding powerful, ancient artefacts from the hands of evil,

or

A villain that thieves, kills and destroys anything in her path to get what she wants?


(I will leave out the 'grey', middle/both option for this one... it makes the question harder)

Rachie
7th Oct 2008, 00:26
Damn it! I wanted the halfway mark.

I chose "Hero" because even if her intentions aren't always in everyone's best interest, she's still someone I look up to.

Tombfan#1
7th Oct 2008, 00:31
I wanted half way too:(
she is both hero and a villain but I chose hero since she is more of a hero than a villain

rg_001100
7th Oct 2008, 01:46
Damn it! I wanted the halfway mark.



I wanted half way too:(


If I'd put 'halfway' in as an option, things'd look more like this:
Hero: 1
Villain: 2
Grey area: 13

Also why I bolded "more of a" in the question.
It's clear that Lara isn't the most innocent/heroic of characters, nor a character with the most ill of intentions. I am curious to see what people think.

josh1122
7th Oct 2008, 01:55
Those are the best type of characters IMO.

Not too much the goody goody hero, but then again not on the side of evil for villains either

pinpal
7th Oct 2008, 01:57
Lara Croft is much of a hero because she doesnt intentially kill. I was reading one of her comics the other day (TR#45) where a man said "how many people have you killed in your time Lara" and she said "only those that have tried to kill me". Lara has a right to protect herself.

RinoTheBouncer
7th Oct 2008, 06:19
She IS a Heroine and she'll always be, although she does anything to get what she wants but she NEVER ignored an innocent person (remember when she told Anaya : 'i'm not losin any one of my friends anymore) or smthin like that which means she does care bout other people's life, even Amanda she didn't hurry up n kill her even at the end she just HIT her, n got point u created this thread cuz many started to think that Lara is now a villain while she's never one

Bampire
7th Oct 2008, 06:32
Anti-Hero.

RinoTheBouncer
7th Oct 2008, 09:34
Anti-Hero.
i don't think so ... i mean she never done somethin that mean
and in TR:U although he goals may destroy the world but if she doesn't re-act Natla will do the same n destroy it so she must re-act n we dunno what will she do

_Love2Raid_
7th Oct 2008, 16:21
She is a heroine, which doesn't mean she's a saint or something. She kills people and animals and she blows up tombs (and manors....:p ) to get what she wants.

She did save the world when she stopped Natla from starting that Seventh Age thing, and she could be doing something similar in Underworld...........who knows?

I think it's somewhere in between hero and villain, but closer to hero ;)

Arctic
7th Oct 2008, 16:28
That's a hard question to answer, really :scratch:

I'd say she's a hero(ine). She'll do almost everything to get what she wants, yes, but it's ot like she's planning to take over the world or something like that :p
And I think she's done more good things for the world than bad things ;)

rg_001100
7th Oct 2008, 17:07
And I think she's done more good things for the world than bad things ;)

This could be seen as more accidental... stopping Natla from taking over the world in TR1/TRA seems more out of her desire to recover the Scion (safely) than it does to stopping Natla.

pinkyXstary
7th Oct 2008, 20:13
I chose villan, only because if she were real... you know she'd be arrested by now lol

Possesion of firearms
Killing endangerd species
Murder
Breaking an entry...

The list is endless lol!

Jurre
7th Oct 2008, 20:23
I can't possibly chose black or white, or apples or pears here. Her actions and intentions are a mix between selfishness & recklessness and heroism & altruism. And then she is also brave and singleminded, which can be attributed to both heroes and villians.

She's a complex character, neither a true hero or a true villian, which it what makes her interesting to me... those stereotypical cardboard comic book characters are just plain boring.

Arctic
7th Oct 2008, 20:51
This could be seen as more accidental... stopping Natla from taking over the world in TR1/TRA seems more out of her desire to recover the Scion (safely) than it does to stopping Natla.

Well yes, but she still saved the world. That makes her a heroine even though she didn't intend to become one :lol:

rg_001100
7th Oct 2008, 21:37
I can't possibly chose black or white,

But d'you reckon it's closer to black or white?


Well yes, but she still saved the world. That makes her a heroine even though she didn't intend to become one :lol:

If a bad guy kills another bad guy, does that make him 'heroic'?

domina
7th Oct 2008, 21:40
Neither. She's more of an anti-hero. Her purposes aren't to save the world or do good, but by doing what she wants, those are often the end results.

Bampire
7th Oct 2008, 21:47
i don't think so ... i mean she never done somethin that mean
and in TR:U although her goals may destroy the world but if she doesn't re-act Natla will do the same n destroy it so she must re-act n we dunno what will she do


I don't see Lara either as a Villain or a Hero, I see her as an Anti-Hero. She kills others because she needs to, in order to survive. Heroes don't kill. Take Batman and Wolverine for an example: Batman doesn't kill, because he's a vigilante-hero. Wolverine has killed, and will keep killing, he's an anti-hero. As for Lara, she's an Anti-hero. She saves, and protects, with blood on her hands. She's not a coldhearted killer, alike of what she was in the Core games.

She goes against the rules of being a hero, she puts the planet in danger to get that item she wants, she raids Tombs, which isn't a hero thing to do, to steal priceless artifacts and history. I hate to say this, but Indiana is more hero then of Lara. Because he brings back the items that have been stolen, to preserve history, even if they posses great powers, and knowledge.

I stick to my thoughts and opinion on Lara, that she is an Anti-Hero.

Jurre
7th Oct 2008, 21:49
But d'you reckon it's closer to black or white?
I can't say,... its grey in its most neutral form...

annebelle86
8th Oct 2008, 11:16
i chose hero, because Lara's what many people would want to be (like) i.e. a strong, powerful, independent woman or her lifestyle is what many people would like to have, like the travelling (enough money to support it etc.)

the way anti-hero was explained to me in school, they are like the 'losers' nobody wants to be (like), everything they do goes wrong, everything they touch falls apart... so in that sense Lara is nowhere near anti-hero...

but i like your view goar:) and i more or less have to agree with you;)

Arctic
8th Oct 2008, 12:49
If a bad guy kills another bad guy, does that make him 'heroic'?

Nah, it depends on why he kills him. But Lara wasn't a 'bad' girl either. She ended up shooting the Scion to stop Natla. Even though Lara wanted the Scion for herself. But she shot it to save the world.. Must count for something ;)

Spong
8th Oct 2008, 13:30
She's a hero because she saves the world. But only as path of the course to her being a villain. She's a cold-hearted killer and a thief.

You really should have put that "grey area" choice in the poll, RG. I haven't voted :(

Veppie
8th Oct 2008, 13:45
She is a villain, but that's why she is my hero.

rg_001100
8th Oct 2008, 19:15
You really should have put that "grey area" choice in the poll, RG. I haven't voted :(

If I did put 'grey area' in there, option would've been picked the most. :) :rasp:

Spong
8th Oct 2008, 19:17
Exactly, and therein lies the actual answer to the question this poll poses ;)

rg_001100
8th Oct 2008, 19:19
Exactly, and therein lies the actual answer to the question this poll poses ;)

She's neither truly villain, nor truely hero... but a shade of grey. I'd doubt that she's exactly on the mark of neutral... she's either way, even if by a fraction...

Spong
8th Oct 2008, 19:28
I'd say she's more villain than hero. She's a thief first and foremost. The whole saving the world thing is just a by-product of that.

EDIT
And on the strength of that, I've cast my vote. And what a surprise to see most people saying she's a hero.

rg_001100
8th Oct 2008, 19:48
And on the strength of that, I've cast my vote. And what a surprise to see most people saying she's a hero.

Yeah, I voted for 'hero'... the TR games are shown from the perspective of Lara, and I think that shows more of the heroic qualities on her rather the villainous ones that'd be shown from the perspectives of others...

Spong
8th Oct 2008, 20:08
You mean they dress up her villainous ways by throwing a thin veil of justification over her actions?

Rai
8th Oct 2008, 20:16
I finally voted. I went for villain. It was a hard choice because even though Lara does go after certain artifacts, sometimes it seems just for 'fun' and sometimes for personal gain even if that means killing the innocent in the process, she does kind of end up saving the world from the likes of Natla or Dr Willard who had their own evil objectives. Even if that means losing out on an artifact, like the Scion. She is kind of accidentally heroic. ;)

natebrooks
8th Oct 2008, 21:00
A villain that thieves, kills and destroys anything in her path to get what she wants?


That is not the US definition of villain.
Since TRU is and game that tells a story.....the definition would be as followed.

a character in a story or play who opposes the hero.

Tell me who the hero is in the story, if Lara is to be the villain.....
But you're definition does describe the traits a villain would possess. :)

rg_001100
8th Oct 2008, 21:07
That is not the US definition of villain.
Since TRU is and game that tells a story.....the definition would be as followed.

a character in a story or play who opposes the hero.

Tell me who the hero is in the story, if Lara is to be the villain.....
But you're definition does describe the traits a villain would possess. :)

Anti-hero then. :) (damn semantics...)
And if Lara is the villain, Amanda could be considered the hero. (or is she an anti-villain?)

natebrooks
8th Oct 2008, 21:14
Anti-hero then. :) (damn semantics...)
And if Lara is the villain, Amanda could be considered the hero. (or is she an anti-villain?)

I personally feel Lara has no choice but to take the role as hero.
Amanda's acts are far from heroic.
She just doesn't fit the definitional profile.

rg_001100
8th Oct 2008, 21:18
Amanda's acts are far from heroic.


What exactly did Amanda do that was so villainous?

Jurre
8th Oct 2008, 21:55
Anti-hero then. :) (damn semantics...)
And if Lara is the villain, Amanda could be considered the hero. (or is she an anti-villain?)
If I am not mistaken, an anti-villain is someone who does bad in the honest assumption that he or she does good...

I suppose that Lara is an anti-villain in Underworld...

crazyraider-147
8th Oct 2008, 22:30
Lara Croft is a powerful strong woman who has her own path which is why she is none to me I think she is a unique character.

Jezyk
8th Oct 2008, 22:35
Lara Croft is much of a hero because she doesnt intentially kill. I was reading one of her comics the other day (TR#45) where a man said "how many people have you killed in your time Lara" and she said "only those that have tried to kill me". Lara has a right to protect herself.

And how many times did Lara enter places where she wasn't supposed to be? Like military bases for instance. People working there had the right to attack her.

rg_001100
8th Oct 2008, 22:37
I suppose that Lara is an anti-villain in Underworld...

So a better question would've been "Is Lara Croft more of an Anti-Hero or Anti-Villain?"

Jurre
8th Oct 2008, 22:40
So a better question would've been "Is Lara Croft more of an Anti-Hero or Anti-Villain?"
Agreed... But we don't have a good image yet about her intentions to answer that question.

natebrooks
10th Oct 2008, 17:45
So a better question would've been "Is Lara Croft more of an Anti-Hero or Anti-Villain?"

No that's not a better question because you're asking the same question again.
Anti means to oppose.[/I, or against.

So if she's an anti-hero, she's a villain, because she [I]opposes the hero.
And that the definition of villain.
And if she's and anti-villain, she a hero, because she opposes the villain.

rg_001100
10th Oct 2008, 18:00
No that's not a better question because you're asking the same question again.
Anti means to oppose.[/I, or against.

So if she's an anti-hero, she's a villain, because she [I]opposes the hero.
And that the definition of villain.
And if she's and anti-villain, she a hero, because she opposes the villain.

anti-hero does NOT equal the villain,
anti-villain does NOT equal the hero.

There are differences, however subtle.

Lo
10th Oct 2008, 18:18
She's a hero because she saves the world. But only as path of the course to her being a villain. She's a cold-hearted killer and a thief.

You really should have put that "grey area" choice in the poll, RG. I haven't voted :(

Agreed on every point that Spong makes.

It isn't as clear cut as the two extremes required. Ergo, I haven't voted for the same reasons as Spong. Sorry! :rasp:

natebrooks
10th Oct 2008, 18:22
anti-hero does NOT equal the villain,
anti-villain does NOT equal the hero.

There are differences, however subtle.

No...there really ISN'T a difference at all......
And for you to make a claim that there IS a difference with no proof to back it up, is like really confusing to me.

Here's my proof......

http://www.answers.com/topic/villain

IvanaKC
10th Oct 2008, 19:36
Both. (hero)

Jezyk
10th Oct 2008, 21:08
No...there really ISN'T a difference at all......
And for you to make a claim that there IS a difference with no proof to back it up, is like really confusing to me.

Here's my proof......

http://www.answers.com/topic/villain

Guys could you please give up on the semantics? Everybody understand what the poll is about, why argue?

Oh, @ Spong... rg said that almost everybody would vote on the "grey area" and he's right, the poll would be really boring.

rg_001100
11th Oct 2008, 05:14
I haven't voted for the same reasons as Spong. Sorry! :rasp:

Spong voted...


No...there really ISN'T a difference at all......
And for you to make a claim that there IS a difference with no proof to back it up, is like really confusing to me.
[/URL]

Definition of Villain:
http://www.answers.com/topic/villain

A wicked or evil person; a scoundrel.
A dramatic or fictional character who is typically at odds with the hero.
(also vĭl'ān', vĭ-lān') Variant of villein.
Something said to be the cause of particular trouble or an evil: poverty, the villain in the increase of crime.
Obsolete. A peasant regarded as vile and brutish.


Definition of an Anti-Villain:
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=anti-villain (Urban dictionary, sadly)

anti-villain 23 up, 2 down
The converse of an anti-hero (i.e., a protagonist who isn't purely good or heroic), an anti-villain is an antagonist who isn't purely evil nor entirely unsympathetic -- a character who doesn't seem to deserve being cast as the villain, perhaps cast arbitrarily as the villain because they are not the focus of the story but merely present a foil to the central figure, who may be an antihero protagonist. Cf. scapegoat.


Definition of Hero:
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/hero

he·ro (hîr)
n. pl. he·roes
1. In mythology and legend, a man, often of divine ancestry, who is endowed with great courage and strength, celebrated for his bold exploits, and favored by the gods.
2. A person noted for feats of courage or nobility of purpose, especially one who has risked or sacrificed his or her life: soldiers and nurses who were heroes in an unpopular war.
3. A person noted for special achievement in a particular field: the heroes of medicine. See Synonyms at celebrity.
4. The principal male character in a novel, poem, or dramatic presentation.
5. Chiefly New York City See submarine. See Regional Note at submarine.


Definition of Anti hero:
http://www.answers.com/topic/anti-hero

also an·ti-he·ro n., pl. -roes also -roes.
A main character in a dramatic or narrative work who is characterized by a lack of traditional heroic qualities, such as idealism or courage.


Hero and Villain are more white and black... The hero is the handsome young prince with high morals and ethics who goes to rescue the princess (or prince) from the dungeon of the evil wicked villain...
The villain is the hunched over bald guy with warts on his nose, who wants to rule the world, with them as slaves...

The anti-hero wants to save the world, but will kill, murder, blackmail, etc. to get there.
The anti-villain is either someone who opposes the (anti-)hero, (or, there is the variant, such as someone wanting evil through good, ethical ways)

Bampire
11th Oct 2008, 06:04
If only you put the Anti-hero/anti-villain in the poll.

THANK YOU! Though, for showing the other peeps what the definitions of each Hero/anti-hero, villain/anti-villain, RG.

rg_001100
11th Oct 2008, 06:12
If only you put the Anti-hero/anti-villain in the poll.

THANK YOU! Though, for showing the other peeps what the definitions of each Hero/anti-hero, villain/anti-villain, RG.

Though this would have to bring in the question of whether Amanda is villain/anti-hero/anti-villain...

blonde croft
11th Oct 2008, 07:05
can i put both!

rg_001100
11th Oct 2008, 07:09
can i put both!

Does no one bother to read the OP? :rolleyes:

blonde croft
11th Oct 2008, 07:15
nope! :D
but she is both! she kills people and and animals
she saves the world number of times!

Bampire
11th Oct 2008, 07:16
Though this would have to bring in the question of whether Amanda is villain/anti-hero/anti-villain...


I personally think Amanda is an anti-villain. :whistle: She's only set on getting Lara out of her way and to get to Avalon, not to destroy the world, or really anything. She just gets what she wants, but in a more villainous way--with hiring henchmen and a possibility of working with Natla.

Natla, is a villain, though.:rasp:

Bampire
11th Oct 2008, 07:18
nope! :D
but she is both! she kills people and and animals
she saves the world number of times!


That would make an Anti-hero. :rasp:

blonde croft
11th Oct 2008, 07:29
now theres a better way to put it! :lol:

Alyss
11th Oct 2008, 07:40
I voted villain, but only because she's more of an anti-hero. She's still my hero. :D

briek
25th Nov 2008, 06:09
I guess if you're going to look at it from a true archaeologist's perspective or the view of somebody of moral character (i.e. a non-dirty cop:o), she's a villain. Sadly, that doesn't say much of me, because she will always be my hero. I love her trigger finger and shoot-now-ask-later personality.

CL489
28th Nov 2008, 05:31
Lara is a hero in my opinion. She does bend the rules in order to get what she wants, and she certainly has her callous moments, but all in all she's still a good person and she has the world's best interest in mind. Which makes her a hero in my book. ;)