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dark_angel_7
5th Oct 2008, 10:09
Although we'll only seen 1 trailer and the PC ZONE scans and that concept art, how are you feeling about the stuff you've seen?

Vote above.

Me, well I have to say need more media as although the scans reveal some interesting stuff more media (especially game play footage in HD) is needed. With game play footage in HD you can really see how the game is shaping up, etc. Also screen shots wouldn't hurt.

J.CDenton
5th Oct 2008, 10:17
Actually I'm a bit mixed beetween the first and second answer. I pretty like what I see and also the Gameplay sounds like interresting.

But I prefer stay carefull before shouting "Yay, masterpiece is coming!". I wish to see screenshots and other medias to have a good idea of what is coming. I hope to see more very soon.

For now I stay optimistic.

dark_angel_7
5th Oct 2008, 10:28
I know by saying this I'm probably be called a graphics whore or something by someone but what the heck. I am very impressed with what they've managed to do with the Tomb Raider Underworld engine. Its looking better then Underworld! And thats just by looking at scans. And it has this really good touch to it, I can't put my finger on what it is though. :o

Bring on the media Eidos Montreal! :D

jordan_a
5th Oct 2008, 10:47
I'm not really sure about the point of this thread.

-We already have a thread dedicated to the release of the article
-There's not enough material to think on
-I prefer discussions than poll numbers but that's just me.

AaronJ
5th Oct 2008, 14:10
You can say it all you want guys. They have a plan. Trust them with it.

mouse
5th Oct 2008, 17:50
I'm rather optimistic about the game from what I've seen (which isn't much). I think I dont have to stress the importance of the non-visual parts of the game like the story plot and the balance, etc...

Bloodwolf806
5th Oct 2008, 17:52
So far everything looks very promising.

imported_van_HellSing
5th Oct 2008, 17:53
This poll is flawed.

There's one 100% positive option, one neutral and two negative. Where's the "liking most of it" option?

StingingVelvet
5th Oct 2008, 17:54
I like what I see... the whole retro-cyberpunk look is very cool, the clothing looks unique for a game and very interesting, and the game seems to be vibrant and colorful, as opposed to so many dark and grungy games this generation.

imported_van_HellSing
5th Oct 2008, 17:56
Lol, I just noticed René voted on "need to see more media" :lol:

Romeo
5th Oct 2008, 18:12
Figures Eidos would wait for more information before they comment on their own work. lol

Overtime
5th Oct 2008, 18:18
You can say it all you want guys. They have a plan. Trust them with it.

Thats what many ppl said in the forums before IW was released!

As for me, im liking most of what ive seen so far.

Initially, i was disappointed with the idea of a prequel but on second thought i think it was the right decision. It gives the devs the freedom to make a really great game without having to deal with IW.
Some of the other things I have concerns about such as the health system, im reserving judgement on. Why? Because i just dont know enough about it.

CarloGervasi
5th Oct 2008, 19:01
You can say it all you want guys. They have a plan. Trust them with it.

:lol:

That's how we get games like Invisible War and Oblivion. "Their plan" is pretty terrible, from what we've seen. It shows the exact same problem thats given us a lot of disappointing entries into franchises lately - developers not understanding why people liked the first game in the first place.

free2game
5th Oct 2008, 19:08
I like the art design, but the health system, and cover system I don't like. As far as visually, hard to tell from those scans how detailed everything was.

Joseph Manderley's Corpse
5th Oct 2008, 19:23
Auto healing?

Are these people out of their MINDS?

I hope one of the devs or someone could enlighten us on how this is going to work, because on the surface, it sounds HYPER-STOOPIT.

WhatsHisFace
5th Oct 2008, 19:25
Auto healing?

Are these people out of their MINDS?

I hope one of the devs or someone could enlighten us on how this is going to work, because on the surface, it sounds HYPER-STOOPIT.

Basically, the developers expect you to play through the whole game like a dope. That's how it'll work.

SubTonic20
5th Oct 2008, 19:38
Basically, the developers expect you to play through the whole game like a dope. That's how it'll work.

You're really starting to resemble a troll. Just thought I'd let you know.

CarloGervasi
5th Oct 2008, 19:39
You're starting to resemble a fanboy. Thought I'd let you know.

The idea that anyone that doesn't like a singular feature is a "troll" is inane.

SubTonic20
5th Oct 2008, 19:47
You're starting to resemble a fanboy. Thought I'd let you know.

The idea that anyone that doesn't like a singular feature is a "troll" is inane.

Fanboy? Heh, and I thought I was all for the changes being made. Nice try, though. Wait, actually, it wasn't.

I also never defined a troll as such. Stop assuming about every single little thing and maybe I'll care about what you say.

CarloGervasi
5th Oct 2008, 19:49
I guess I shouldn't try that again. It's hard to do this when half the things I say fly over your head.


Let's try an explanation. "Fanboy for Deus Ex 3". Is that clearer? I mean, I've seen your deductive reasoning skills, and your ability to absorb information first hand, so I realize it's probably not clear to you, but I can always hold out hope.

SubTonic20
5th Oct 2008, 19:51
I guess I shouldn't try that again. It's hard to do this when half the things I say fly over your head.


Let's try an explanation. "Fanboy for Deus Ex 3". Is that clearer? I mean, I've seen your deductive reasoning skills, and your ability to absorb information first hand, so I realize it's probably not clear to you, but I can always hold out hope.

Oh, I get it. So I'm a fanboy of something that's not out yet, nor has much information regarding it.

You're making yourself more and more predictable with every post. I highly suggest you cease (but I know you won't).

CarloGervasi
5th Oct 2008, 19:53
Oh, I get it. So I'm a fanboy of something that's not out yet, nor has much information regarding it.
The irony in you saying this, and the reason you said it, is delicious.





Back on topic, I haven't seen very many positive reactions to the new info. Something for someone at Eidos to take notice of, hopefully.

SubTonic20
5th Oct 2008, 19:55
Back on topic

I'll take this as a retreat. Thank you for your time, kiddo.

CarloGervasi
5th Oct 2008, 19:56
It must be fun.

René
5th Oct 2008, 20:17
Lol, I just noticed René voted on "need to see more media" :lol:

I'm a gamer too! I want to release more stuff!

AaronJ
5th Oct 2008, 20:31
He will be a powerful asset to the "more media" movement.

All this "create your own hype" talk is bull****.

MaxxQ1
5th Oct 2008, 22:46
I went with the second option, since, after the major disappointment of DX:IW and minor disappointment of Homeworld 2, I've gotten a bit leery of pre-release hype.

minus0ne
5th Oct 2008, 23:00
Smoking protagonist, Cyber Renaissance, DX1 freedom (possibly expanded) etc. ftw. :D

Absence of proper stealth gameplay system = *EPIC* fail.

"Cover" system = feels like I've got a nasty hairball comprised of Ozzie Osbourne's pubes stuck in my throat everytime I read that term :nut:

AaronJ
5th Oct 2008, 23:22
Self-healing: Uni Ammo all over again.

Romeo
5th Oct 2008, 23:57
Hm... No. Not really. lol

Joseph Manderley's Corpse
6th Oct 2008, 00:58
Pfft

I bought IW on the release date....never again.

Guess I'll wait for DX3 to hit the $10.00 bargain bin 2 months after it comes out.:cool:

jamhaw
6th Oct 2008, 01:22
I just realized why we have the auto-health feature! It's because the protaganist is smoking all the time!:D

Igoe
6th Oct 2008, 03:28
Oh man, I love how Adam looks so far.

Bout' time we got a decent smoking hero in a game, it's been too long.

I'm not a smoker, but its at least refreshing to see. I like the idea of an unlikely hero. I ALWAYS loved the fact JC was the secondary unit, not the first. That had a big impact on me. You'd have thought the FIRST would have been the catalyst, but its the unsuspecting second, the one in the more controlled environment that ended up being MJ-12s downfall.

The idea that the savior of the world ends up being this gruff chainsmoker working as a guard is very appealing to me. Adds to the whole immersion thing.

We've seen the trained killing machine before in DX, its about time we got some regular guy who actually CAN use guns as opposed to scardy cat normal guy who has trouble with iron sights a la Silent Hill.

minus0ne
6th Oct 2008, 03:36
Smoking protagonist, Cyber Renaissance, DX1 freedom (possibly expanded) etc. ftw. :D

Absence of proper stealth gameplay system = *EPIC* fail.

"Cover" system = feels like I've got a nasty hairball comprised of Ozzie Osbourne's pubes stuck in my throat everytime I read that term :nut:
Let me add to that: the consulting of Pacotti/Smith/Spector is awesome.

The whole Blade Runner vibe is sweet as hell (I can feel my mouth watering just thinking of Blade Runner cityscapes :D ).

Also, I've concluded that game 'journalists' are shameless philistines who apparently can't grasp that the Renaissance was something BIGGER/other than an architectural movement :D I mean, seriously, they "see" Renaissance meets Cyberpunk in the architecture and clothing? wtf lol? Art Deco meets Cyberpunk, maybe, but Renaissance..

/Jon Stewart tone of voice: ..really? :scratch:

I guess my cappuccino tastes a bit like Renaissance... :D

I just realized why we have the auto-health feature! It's because the protaganist is smoking all the time!
In 2027, smoking cleans your teeth and lungs (pollution) while making you look cool and giving you at least a couple dozen ways to start a conversation. Oh,.. and it's mandatory! :rasp:

Laokin
6th Oct 2008, 03:53
I don't quite understand the obsession with the cover system. From what I got from the magazine scan.... it seemed as cover would be almost useless unless you were to get the aug that would allow you to see the vission cones. Seems to me the cover system is truely intended for sneaking. Kinda like the cubicle scene from the matrix..... they just can't see neo.

It made zero mention of actually using it for cover, or blind firing from it. (The section I was able to read from the scan anyway.)

So to me it seems since the game is brighter they probably didn't wanna add shadows everywhere and jeopardize their art style just so people could hide. Third person gives you the advantage to see if you body is completely hidden, as to not be annoyed by false detections (or player error resulting from limited view.)

I think it's gonna be about the same as shadows -- it just looks a little flashier, and gives you the ability to see your aug's manifest on Adam. Although, if that's their excuse -- they could have broke tradition of modern games and put working mirrors in the game! Is it me, or has every new shooter completely omitted the mirror altogether, and the ones that are exception of the rule have purposely broken mirrors in place? Any who, I'll be slightly disappointed if I see no mirrors in this game. Immersion, as everyone seems to be so fond of around here :-)

Necros
6th Oct 2008, 05:04
I like most of what I've seen so far but I need to have more info before I can say anything for certain. But the game does look very promising. :cool:

DXeXodus
6th Oct 2008, 06:12
I am really happy with what i have seen. The idea is great. It is bold and different to what I expected, but I consider that a good thing. Will have to wait and see though what happens with the auto health regen system though.

gh0s7
6th Oct 2008, 13:07
Need more info (read: a downloadable demo :D ). What I've seen looks good, but one never knows...

SubTonic20
6th Oct 2008, 13:22
Oh man, I love how Adam looks so far. The idea that the savior of the world ends up being this gruff chainsmoker working as a guard is very appealing to me. Adds to the whole immersion thing.

Ditto. I've been wanting a more real, laid-back person in a game for a while now. It'll be pretty awesome to see how EM manages to make something out of this security guard. If anything, it's more interesting than the nano-augmented agent approach from the first two games. Plus, it'll give us a very close look at what it's like to be mechanically augmented like Hermann.

Jerion
6th Oct 2008, 16:43
Auto healing?

Are these people out of their MINDS?

I hope one of the devs or someone could enlighten us on how this is going to work, because on the surface, it sounds HYPER-STOOPIT.

It's all about how it's implemented. Perhaps it only heals you up to 50% health in all areas of the body. Perhaps it only heals very, very slowly. Perhaps it doesn't heal you at all when you are jumping, running, getting shot or otherwise exerting your virtual self. Perhaps it becomes lessened or disabled on higher difficulty levels. Perhaps any combination of these.

Point is- auto healing doesn't mean that you become an invincible stealth commando. It just means that you die slightly less quickly if you are found by the dudes protecting the places they don't want you to get into.

Kaze103
6th Oct 2008, 17:50
I know by saying this I'm probably be called a graphics whore or something by someone but what the heck. I am very impressed with what they've managed to do with the Tomb Raider Underworld engine. Its looking better then Underworld! And thats just by looking at scans. And it has this really good touch to it, I can't put my finger on what it is though. :o

Bring on the media Eidos Montreal! :D

I showed my lady friend a screenshot of Dx3, she only realised it was a game and not a real photo after I commented :D

I voted need more media. I looks pretty good so far, and from what we've been told I'm liking it. Then again, it's been the same with other games, and spore looked damn good till I played it.

Looking forward to it though

general kane
6th Oct 2008, 18:21
lol we need some HD pics or videos so we can judge them good . :whistle:

CarloGervasi
7th Oct 2008, 05:00
I'm happy with just about everything now. I hate the idea of auto-healing, but I can envision some (unlikely) scenarios where it could work, like "it only heals the bottom 20%, and only very, very slowly". I'm on the fence about some the augmentations, but thats one of those things I'm really going to need to play the game to form a real solid opinion on. Technical explanations for them and stuff like that will make me a lot more accepting of my wall-punching antics.

Ihsan
7th Oct 2008, 06:56
Everything is looking pritty good, but there is one thing that i dont like....

REGENERATING HEALTH - this junk is just an industry fad, please at the very least give us the option to turn it off!! I loved the original in that it had hit boxes and made you, for example, walk slower if you were shot in the leg. It really added something extra to the game, that many games are without these days.

K^2
7th Oct 2008, 07:20
They could still have localized damage if the rate of healing is slow enough. Hopefully, that's what they have done. I also really enjoyed that aspect of the original.

CarloGervasi
7th Oct 2008, 07:22
I hope Rene is taking notes about the kind of reaction regenerating health has gotten. So far, it's almost universally been "how can we get rid of this?". People are already talking about how they're going to mod it out, more than year out from the games release date, at least.

mouse
7th Oct 2008, 07:24
I make my decision on the female NPCs and covergirls... so where are the boobie shots?!

K^2
7th Oct 2008, 07:30
I hope Rene is taking notes about the kind of reaction regenerating health has gotten. So far, it's almost universally been "how can we get rid of this?". People are already talking about how they're going to mod it out, more than year out from the games release date, at least.
I really think he is. Or somebody is, at any rate. It looks like they actually changed the cover system, over these past few days, because of the community input.

Initially, Rene said that 3rd person turns on strictly automatically when protagonist does something cool. Now, in response to cover system he said that they tweaked it to go into 3rd person if player chooses to enable it.

Maybe they'll do something about health regeneration as well.

And to be honest, I really don't mind slow health regeneration as an option. In fact, if it doesn't interfere with anything else, I might not even disable it the first time I play through. But if health regeneration is slow, and there are healing items, no reason not to disable it on higher difficulty settings.

DXeXodus
7th Oct 2008, 07:31
Mouse: I see you are a man of class and distinguished taste. :)

CarloGervasi
7th Oct 2008, 07:34
Now, in response to cover system he said that they tweaked it to go into 3rd person if player chooses to enable it.

Where was this, if you remember?

Anyways, I really hope you're right and they're seeing how people have reacted. I think a lot of times the hubris of developers leads to them refusing to change certain things under the idea of "well, they'll like it when they play it", never seeming to realize that we're perfectly capable of grasping a concept without first hand experience with it, and if we think we're not going to like it, we're probably not going to like it. That's how we got a counter-strike clone Shadowrun game.

K^2
7th Oct 2008, 07:50
Where was this, if you remember?
http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?p=851234&post851234

Note "The design has been updated..." bit.

DXeXodus
7th Oct 2008, 07:54
The developers of this game have many eyes and ears in this forum. You can bet on the fact that they are paying attention to what the fans think. This does not, however mean that they will change anything as a result. But they will never be blind to reason.

Red
7th Oct 2008, 10:24
Bah, I already voted... The poll is missing an "I hate the GODDAMN auto-heal" option. I vote for that one.

Other than that, seems fine. More media still wouldn't hurt of course.

CarloGervasi
7th Oct 2008, 12:14
http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?p=851234&post851234

Note "The design has been updated..." bit.

Ok. I'm assuming you're referring to post number 369, since thats the only one from Rene that actually deals with it. All he's saying is "if you don't want to use 3rd person, don't use cover", which is pretty damn lame.


I swear, sometimes it's like the entire games industry makes it's decisions based on a whimsical dart toss. How in the heck do people sit down to figure out how to "fix" the Deus Ex franchise, and walk away with things like this 3rd person nonsense, no real weapon skills, and regenerative health? How can anyone be that out of touch, worse yet, how can an entire group of people be that out of touch? It's mind boggling.

Mecranth
7th Oct 2008, 12:24
As painful as it must be, CarloGervasi, they cannot and will not develop their game based on what you or anybody else deems appropriate. It is their game, after all. Should they read your post and change everything they have already officially decided upon, then perhaps I will change my reasoning here.

CarloGervasi
7th Oct 2008, 12:33
Yeah, they could, they just won't. And no, I'm not asking them to tailor anything to me - I'm asking them to tailor it to what the fanbase wanted in the first place. You'd think Invisible War would have been a good enough lesson about what happens when you take a successful franchise and start tinkering with the things that made it successful in the first place, but apparently not. I'm sure they have it their heads that they're being real "controversial", and that "we'll all end up liking it a lot, once we get to play it!". The uni-ammo guys at Ion Storm probably thought the same thing. It's going to take a release and subsequent **** storm of disappointment and bad word of mouth for anyone there to realize that in reality, they were just being "ignorant of history", and that "yeah, we knew we weren't going to like it when we first heard about it, playing it and not liking it first hand didn't really help much".


I just don't get it. If you don't want to make a game like Deus Ex, why in the heck are you calling it "Deus Ex 3"? Call it something else. Do another Snowblind. A Deus Ex game needs to play like Deus Ex. This "change it all around, just because" **** has got to go.

Mecranth
7th Oct 2008, 12:36
While I agree with you to an extent, a game developer's primary goal is to make money. If they appealed only to the fans of the first Deus Ex game, they would not make nearly the sum of cash they would have gained had they appealed to as many people as possible, particularly console gamers.

It is a sad fact of the gaming industry, yes, but one that must be accepted.

Ihsan
7th Oct 2008, 12:47
While I agree with you to an extent, a game developer's primary goal is to make money. If they appealed only to the fans of the first Deus Ex game, they would not make nearly the sum of cash they would have gained had they appealed to as many people as possible, particularly console gamers.

It is a sad fact of the gaming industry, yes, but one that must be accepted.

Sadly this is true, the big wigs will be breathing down the necks of the production team to have the game lean more towards the masses then the truly hardcore fans. BUT in saying that, the original dx broke some moldes that had been created, lets just hope this new one strives to be something pioneering and original!

Who knows, maybe after dx3 comes out everyone will be making clones of it like halo now days =P

CarloGervasi
7th Oct 2008, 12:48
While I agree with you to an extent, a game developer's primary goal is to make money. If they appealed only to the fans of the first Deus Ex game, they would not make nearly the sum of cash they would have gained had they appealed to as many people as possible, particularly console gamers.

It is a sad fact of the gaming industry, yes, but one that must be accepted.

Bull. They sold more copies of the first game than the second game. Games like Mass Effect, KotOR, WoW, etc being massive, huge success stories on PCs and on consoles show that the game playing population is perfectly capable of understanding and enjoying a complex title in large numbers. It isn't "trying to make money". If that's what they were after, they'd probably be a little smarter to avoid pissing off their current customers in favor of chasing some nebulous group of "new customers" that, in all likelihood, are not going to be interested in the first place.

It's just bad game design. Things that should clearly be opt-in are not. Things that are a no brainer to include are gone. Augmentations, once subtle and useful in general, now have you kool-aid man'ing your way through walls and bungee jumping. Stuff that'll need to have obvious "use your augmentation now!" areas built into each map just for the sake of being used. Weapon skills are gone (despite their utilization in the very, very successful Mass Effect title), because...why? I don't know. I guess games with expanding crosshairs are never successful or fun...like virtually any Tom Clancy game, Mass Effect, the original game that was so successful that it spawned a Hollywood movie deal and two more games, etc.

It's bad game design, it's ignorance of history, and it's just inexcusable. How can this happen? How can a group of people get together, watch Invisible War crash and burn, read the tons and tons of info on why it crashed and burned...and come out with this?

Ihsan
7th Oct 2008, 13:03
I have to admit carlo, I think the bungiee cord will be good if you can use it off ANY building, also being able to lower yourself up and down (not just use it to get to the floor). Thereby exploring and finding special routes into buildings, through windows etc.

CarloGervasi
7th Oct 2008, 13:09
Go through one and two and see how many chances to use a bungee cord you're going to find. You'll find two, both in the original. Jumping off Maggie Chow's apartment, and jumping off Vandenburg Air base.

It's something that's going to have to be built into each level, with really obvious "use the augmentation NOW" cues, it's going to look cheesy. If you ever played Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory, those little Japanese paper walls that you could pull people through, that showed up in places where it made absolutely no sense for them to be (you could actually find one in the weapon testing range of a PMC), just so you could pull people through walls - thats what it's going to be like.

And besides, all it really amounts to is "less fall damage". Is that really worth an aug? I mean, unless they're ALL this useless (lets hope not), it's going to be the aqualung of DE3. One of it's fewer connections to the first game.

Mecranth
7th Oct 2008, 13:47
You cannot claim to know so much about the game we will inevitably get, CarloGervasi, until new information is released. Speculation is one thing, but what you appear to be doing is thinking up every possible worst case scenario, possibly in an attempt to avoid the likelihood of being disappointed had you expected something decent, or perhaps even great.

I understand this, as I have quite often fallen into the trap set by video game hype, something I am not proud of, but to do nothing on a forum but doom the game in question repeatedly is rather ridiculous.

There will definitely be issues with the game. Expecting the team to create a title based solely on what a minority group of people want, however, is a rather selfish viewpoint, is it not?

Instead of expressing your distaste about each and every feature that is announced for the game, try to appreciate the fact that Eidos Montreal is doing their absolute best to balance the game between the Deus Ex of old and something new and refreshing. By all means, if you are unsatisfied with the final result, you may simply return to the game that you keep hinting you want made again.

RedTao
7th Oct 2008, 14:40
What up, crew. I wrote this elsewhere on the web but thought it would provide some fodder for discussion over here too. Sorry it's kind of negative - but it's constructive criticism, right? ...right?

In any case, I think it sums up a lot of the issues people are taking with what's been released so far.

-------------------------------

Ugh. Skepticism mode engaged.

Hardly anything has been released about this game, but the stuff that's surfaced so far has me worried.

Augmentations along the lines of bungee tentacles that shoot out of your back and attach to buildings? Punching through walls and grabbing enemies by the neck?

It's not that crazy bungee tentacles always make a game bad, it's just that the Eidos people sound so damn enthusiastic when they talk about it, and that's not what I'm looking for in Deus Ex.

The franchise has so far taken itself pretty seriously, which worked well for the first game, which had something to say and an artful way to say it. Not so for the second game, which still took itself seriously but was sorta mostly laughable the majority of the time with its goofy physics engine and nonsensical plot twists.

The DE3 design team is putting "Not Deus Ex 2" high on their new game's list of features, but it looks to me a hell of a lot closer to the second than the first. They've added both a Gears of War-style cover mechanic and health recharge mechanic - necessary improvements to the FPS formula, I think, but not what Deus Ex needs. The Halo/GoW/Call of Duty damage system contributes to a feeling of invulnerability, which might be straying a bit too far into the Rambo path.

One of the reasons JC was such an attractive main character, I think, is that despite his fancy shmancy nanoaugmentation he maintained a humanity about him even greater than that of most of his unaugmented supporting cast. He was hot stuff, but most of his powers were physically subtle, along the lines of running fast and lifting heavy things and regeneration. Invulnerability definitely doesn't help this feeling, nor does shooting tentacles from your back. JC's real superpower was his ability to see things from a pretty objective point of view and act as the plot's mediator - a deus ex machina, if you will!

And that trailer. Not exactly subtle. It couldn't make it ten seconds without telling me to "question man's true nature" or some dreck. Thanks, Dramatic Voiceover Guy. Your cyberfetus could've gotten that across on its own.

Oh, and did you guys read the article? Did you see that Midgar is in the game? Apparently it's an innovative new setting.


To be fair, the best parts of Deus Ex would be difficult to convey in a set of design points or a developer interview, so I'm still definitely willing to give DE3 a chance. I'm hoping that the overeager soundbytes that have been generated so far are just the spasms of a new development team worried about living up to its title's reputation.

And, to be honest, if you pretend that they took out Dramatic Voiceover Guy, I think the teaser trailer is actually very cool. The Da Vinci hook is good, the Renaissance hook is good. Here's hoping something fun comes out of this!

piippo
7th Oct 2008, 14:47
I like what I see, but there are things that I am cautious about. Need to see more of course, but I had to answer "amazing" since they've nailed the artstyle in my opinion. This I discussed in greater length in the PC Zone magazine thread.

moonshine
7th Oct 2008, 16:00
I am very cautious about this game, and agree with a lot of what CarloGervasi has said and RedTao's post. Personally the two things that worry me most is the stealth and the auto heal additions.

For me, these didn't really need to be made. In the original game, if i got my health ran down by a ton of enemies in one scenario, then I played the remaining part of the game a lot more stealthly and cautiously until I cam accross some health. I really liked it that way. But these days with games like GoW and Halo around, I can understand why the developers will want to cater to that health regeneration style. It's less hassle for the developers and it makes it easier for the players.

I agree though that this health-regeneration could work if it has limits, i.e. reduced speed for a long duration or will only regenerate health to 50% health maybe. Or even better, have a choice of having it on or off (I doubt that though).

Another great aspect of Deus Ex was the sheer volume of detail into the game, i loved just walking into a empty room and seeing a book on the table, inside it had a lot of detail on events within the story of the game. The second game didn't really have this, so i'm hoping this will.

Hopefully when more details on the game surface the fans of the original will get more enthusiastic ;)

CarloGervasi
7th Oct 2008, 18:17
You cannot claim to know so much about the game we will inevitably get, CarloGervasi, until new information is released. Speculation is one thing, but what you appear to be doing is thinking up every possible worst case scenario, possibly in an attempt to avoid the likelihood of being disappointed had you expected something decent, or perhaps even great.

I understand this, as I have quite often fallen into the trap set by video game hype, something I am not proud of, but to do nothing on a forum but doom the game in question repeatedly is rather ridiculous.

There will definitely be issues with the game. Expecting the team to create a title based solely on what a minority group of people want, however, is a rather selfish viewpoint, is it not?

Instead of expressing your distaste about each and every feature that is announced for the game, try to appreciate the fact that Eidos Montreal is doing their absolute best to balance the game between the Deus Ex of old and something new and refreshing. By all means, if you are unsatisfied with the final result, you may simply return to the game that you keep hinting you want made again.

Yes, I can. I have all the information I need, so does anyone else. I don't need to bury my head in the sand like certain others and pretend like everything will suddenly be alright with the game.

The retail landscape is littered with the corpses of FPSes with watered down mechanics and simple gameplay. If developers or publishers think people want dumbed-down crap, they're condescending idiots.

Hey, guess what? Deus Ex 2 tried going for newcomers by using the dumbing-down approach, and it was a well-deserved failure. Bioshock was a mass-market FPS that had a decent amount of complexity, and it was a well-deserved success.

All Deus Ex 3 had to do was copy the original's mechanics exactly, tweak them and polish them, then add new abilities and content within that framework. That, by itself, would've been revolutionary considering the console gaming landscape today. Instead, we're getting this half-assed compromise between meaty, interesting gameplay mechanics and Deus Ex 2 idiocy, with the bonus of some mindless trendwhoring (particularly, a unique artstyle that makes no sense in the context of the game's setting, and regenerating health).


But hey, let me know how that blind optimism and "wait and see attitude" works out when we get another Invisible War.

rynn taylor
8th Oct 2008, 09:13
I am looking forward to more information being released.

I must admit that when I first heard about the regenerating health system I was a little concerned. Hopefully, Eidos will release information about exactly how it will be implemented.

Big Orange
10th Oct 2008, 18:53
Somebody call the wahmbulance! Really, some Deus Ex fans seem to be the most bratty, whiney and reactionary group this side of Star Trek and Doctor Who. I still think it is too early to write off Deus Ex 3 as a stinker and cash in, especially after so long and learning from most of the mistakes from Invisible War (which doesn't sound so bad, despite looking much more rushed).

Punching through walls or rappling down them with mechanical augs wouldn't be so cheesy if it is executed in a inventive and open ending manner, and remain a choice for the player that can be avoided. The lack of stats I don't really care about, so long as the augment upgrades and interaction with people/objects is at a similar (or greater) level to the original Deus Ex. The new stealth system sounds similar to the MGS series (but not exclusively 3rd person and less cutscenes) so it is not a real tragedy and seems more realistic (darkness is not really cover in the age of IR and electric torches, although it could work against thugs).

The art direction makes sense if you really think about it and the locations don't really look that much different to the locations from DX1 (and we've only seen a very small part of DX3, so we're going to get the beloved rundown, utilitarian locations more in keeping with the Deus Ex verse).

I really don't mind Shanghai posing as Midgar at all, so long as it is executed right and got loads of space to explore, with no load screens every twenty seconds. This is cyberpunk, so urban areas and secret bases are expected.

The auto-heal is the only problematic issue I'm worried about, although it could be a cool feature if it was unrealiable and slow to begin with, and needs augments to the get most out of it in later stages of the game.

Mindmute
10th Oct 2008, 19:10
But hey, let me know how that blind optimism and "wait and see attitude" works out when we get another Invisible War.

Quite honestly, I'm going to stop reading threads when I see "some" people's names on them.

The blind optmism you're talking about is actually this: VERY little information has been made public with all of the details. Until we have all of the details we barely have enough to form an opinion. It's not blind optimism, it's simply not rushing into conclusions.

The "wait and see attitude"? What would you prefer? Your "whine and annoy everyone else on this forum, argueing about TWO features that they will not change attitude"? What point does THAT serve?

Mecranth
10th Oct 2008, 19:33
But hey, let me know how that blind optimism and "wait and see attitude" works out when we get another Invisible War.

"When"? "Blind Optimism"?

You are coming across as nothing less than the board troll if you are really taking your own nonsense serious.

I am not sure how many times "There is not enough information to form an accurate analysis" must be said before you finally come out of that deaf little existence of yours. Judging by the level of stubbornness in the majority of your posts, I could safely assume never.

You seem to be driven only to one outcome here: The game will suck. You make this assumption based on a minute amount of details released about the game, claiming that Eidos Montreal has already ruined it and there exists no more hope.

I must say, that is one of, if not the, most ignorant loads of nonsense I have encountered yet on this board. If you do not have the maturity to handle game design changes and refuse to even glimpse at the positive things, then I'm afraid you have lost all credibility within the discussions here, both now and in the future.

I will also say, for the record, that I quite enjoy the second game, so I guess it will be you who will be disappointed if Deus Ex 3 turns up a similar fate.

You may call the more level-headed people "Blindly Optimistic" all you desire, but I think most would agree that you are the only truly blind person here.

pauldenton
10th Oct 2008, 20:02
Yeah, they could, they just won't. And no, I'm not asking them to tailor anything to me - I'm asking them to tailor it to what the fanbase wanted in the first place. You'd think Invisible War would have been a good enough lesson about what happens when you take a successful franchise and start tinkering with the things that made it successful in the first place, but apparently not. I'm sure they have it their heads that they're being real "controversial", and that "we'll all end up liking it a lot, once we get to play it!". The uni-ammo guys at Ion Storm probably thought the same thing. It's going to take a release and subsequent **** storm of disappointment and bad word of mouth for anyone there to realize that in reality, they were just being "ignorant of history", and that "yeah, we knew we weren't going to like it when we first heard about it, playing it and not liking it first hand didn't really help much".


I just don't get it. If you don't want to make a game like Deus Ex, why in the heck are you calling it "Deus Ex 3"? Call it something else. Do another Snowblind. A Deus Ex game needs to play like Deus Ex. This "change it all around, just because" **** has got to go.


Well said sir.

StalinsGhost
10th Oct 2008, 20:44
I so wanted to say "Yes" to everything, but as an eternal cynic, I'm going to stand and wait. But I'm generally positive so far, and in fact, I've already extensively blogged in defense of the current media release here: http://gregwild.livejournal.com/3747.html

Bluey71
10th Oct 2008, 21:39
Quite honestly, I'm going to stop reading threads when I see "some" people's names on them.

The blind optmism you're talking about is actually this: VERY little information has been made public with all of the details. Until we have all of the details we barely have enough to form an opinion. It's not blind optimism, it's simply not rushing into conclusions.

The "wait and see attitude"? What would you prefer? Your "whine and annoy everyone else on this forum, argueing about TWO features that they will not change attitude"? What point does THAT serve?

Im not going to get involved with this argument as such.

I just wanted to say that I think its very important people come here and post their thoughts on what information is available.
If you dont like what has been released so far, say so, and say why. Same goes the other around too - if you like certain items then say so.

Mindmute
10th Oct 2008, 22:19
Im not going to get involved with this argument as such.

I just wanted to say that I think its very important people come here and post their thoughts on what information is available.
If you dont like what has been released so far, say so, and say why. Same goes the other around too - if you like certain items then say so.

I don't mind opinions, I've been here a while and there have been quite a few other people who spoke theirs and even when I didn't agree with it, I respected it.
If you check the part of his post that I quoted, however, my answer is very adequate. I wasn't criticizing his opinion, just the way he tries to pseudo-enforce it.
However if I failed to express myself so that what I just said is obvious, I apologise. Didn't mean to troll in any way. ;)

Bluey71
10th Oct 2008, 22:27
Ye I know. Its getting late so Im too tired to pay attention to what Im doing.

CarloGervasi
11th Oct 2008, 01:22
Quite honestly, I'm going to stop reading threads when I see "some" people's names on them.

The blind optmism you're talking about is actually this: VERY little information has been made public with all of the details. Until we have all of the details we barely have enough to form an opinion. It's not blind optimism, it's simply not rushing into conclusions.

The "wait and see attitude"? What would you prefer? Your "whine and annoy everyone else on this forum, argueing about TWO features that they will not change attitude"? What point does THAT serve?

We have all the information we need about the features in question. I don't need to know much about regenerating health to know that I won't like it, when my gripe is the fact that regenerating health exists in the first place. I also don't need to know much else about forced third person switches, when my gripe is that they exist in the first place. I swear, you people act like you wouldn't know how you feel about drowning until you experienced it. I don't need first hand experience with something to form an opinion based on available information. I feel sorry for anyone who does.



"When"? "Blind Optimism"?

You are coming across as nothing less than the board troll if you are really taking your own nonsense serious.

I am not sure how many times "There is not enough information to form an accurate analysis" must be said before you finally come out of that deaf little existence of yours. Judging by the level of stubbornness in the majority of your posts, I could safely assume never.

You seem to be driven only to one outcome here: The game will suck. You make this assumption based on a minute amount of details released about the game, claiming that Eidos Montreal has already ruined it and there exists no more hope.

I must say, that is one of, if not the, most ignorant loads of nonsense I have encountered yet on this board. If you do not have the maturity to handle game design changes and refuse to even glimpse at the positive things, then I'm afraid you have lost all credibility within the discussions here, both now and in the future.

I will also say, for the record, that I quite enjoy the second game, so I guess it will be you who will be disappointed if Deus Ex 3 turns up a similar fate.

You may call the more level-headed people "Blindly Optimistic" all you desire, but I think most would agree that you are the only truly blind person here.
:lol:

Please, kid, don't try this again. You're incapable of forming a valid point and subsequently expressing it if your entire post is going to center around the idea of me having "lost credibility" with some faceless tool on a message board.

1 - You can say "we don't know enough" all you want. Go ahead. Say it. It's not going to change anything. We do know enough for what we're discussing. As I said before, I don't need to know the exact inner workings of something like automatic health regeneration to know that I'm not in favor of it. I don't need to know the exact inner workings of anything when I know I oppose it as a concept. It's too bad that some people are too thick to wrap their heads around that, and so they resort to mindless repetition of the same flawed "we don't know, we don't know, we don't know" crap. Give it a rest.

2 - If you enjoyed the 2nd, welcome to the minority. There's a reason why even Eidos has tried to distance this game from that one. It was a crushing disappointment to just about everyone. So no, saying "well I enjoyed it" doesn't quite have the neutralizing effect that I'm sure you were hoping for.



I don't mind opinions, I've been here a while and there have been quite a few other people who spoke theirs and even when I didn't agree with it, I respected it.
If you check the part of his post that I quoted, however, my answer is very adequate. I wasn't criticizing his opinion, just the way he tries to pseudo-enforce it.
However if I failed to express myself so that what I just said is obvious, I apologise. Didn't mean to troll in any way. ;)

Haha, are you serious? If you get any softer, you're going to start lactating. Expressing my opinion and not agreeing with yours isn't me "enforcing" my opinion. Jesus. When I start deleting your posts and banning you for disagreeing, thats when you can start whining that I'm forcing my opinion onto you. Not before.

Mecranth
11th Oct 2008, 11:46
I cannot say I expected anything more than a long post of denial from you, CarloGervasi. As I stated earlier, you have zero credibility on these boards, so rant nonsensically about my apparent lack of a point all you wish. I find it quite amusing that you did nothing except generalize everything I said, something that you have been doing with this upcoming game.

If you are going to bring repetition into your counter argument, I suggest not coming off as repetitive yourself. I cannot count how many times you have stated that we have the right amount of information, clearly a false claim in the first place, along with your repetitive use of name-calling. These are the marks of quite a childish mindset, particularly if the person in question does not realize their own errors, which is the case with you.

Also, to the minority remark, I would like to point out that you are in the minority regarding this game. I am sure you will post something to the effect of "I am in the logical minority", however, and feel very free to. Just note that it will not be taken seriously.

I await your inevitable post again calling me a kid, typing some form of laughter, which, by the way, does not intimidate or mock very effectively at all, and doing nothing to back up your absurd argument.

I hope this thread gets back on track with a more constructive discussion in the near future. Otherwise, I would rather it be closed due to incessant flaming.

~Psychotic~
11th Oct 2008, 13:12
How much credibility could you have on an ONLINE forum? You don't know the person in real life so you can't really expect for people to take you word for word or respect you, or think of you as credible anyway.

And back on topic. To answer the topic title. I've been generally pleased with what I've read so far, some ideas I don't like but there always is in all video games. So yeah, I'm pretty happy for the time being.

Mindmute
11th Oct 2008, 14:38
We have all the information we need about the features in question. I don't need to know much about regenerating health to know that I won't like it, when my gripe is the fact that regenerating health exists in the first place. I also don't need to know much else about forced third person switches, when my gripe is that they exist in the first place.

Really you know all that?
Then you must have some sort of insider sources that even Rene lacks considering he has already said that the 3rd person switches are NOT FORCED. They are fully optional. You use it if you want to.
Tried reading what he has said so far? Or even the fact thread?

Regarding the auto-healing, do you know how it's going to be implemented too? Have you been geranted access to all the details on that feature? There's a discussion thread on this forum for alternate ways for it and even the people who dislike auto-healing have agreed with some of them (including me). So it's rather safe to assume that there is more than one way that feature could be implemented in a game and once again, they haven't told us HOW it is going to be in there or even in what context.




Haha, are you serious? If you get any softer, you're going to start lactating. Expressing my opinion and not agreeing with yours isn't me "enforcing" my opinion. Jesus. When I start deleting your posts and banning you for disagreeing, thats when you can start whining that I'm forcing my opinion onto you. Not before.
Really? Am I really being a softy? Take a look at the very quote where you call me that: it's nothing short of trolling and flamebaiting.
In a discussion you try to point out why you think another person is wrong, and you try to understand what they think they're right and generally if the two people are sensible and mature enough, they reach a consensus.
What you do isn't discussing, you get very close to insulting anyone who doesn't agree with you and on that matter yes. It is trying to enforce your opinion in your own very limited and inept way.



Feel free to quote this post or any other and respond by trolling some more, but don't expect a repply, by all means even take advantage of my not repplying to insult me if that's where you get your jollies; but I come here for info on a game I'm waiting for and for actual discussions with other people who are waiting for that game.

Have fun and enjoy yourself here, though since feel that strongly about the direction where DX3 is going I don't even understand why you hang around.

imported_van_HellSing
11th Oct 2008, 14:56
I request this poll be remade from scratch, properly this time, with two positive options.

As I said, currently the poll has one positive option, one pretty much neutral, and two negative.

There's no option I can choose - I don't think everything is amazing, but I also don't need more media/info to know that I'm liking most of it.

Therefore I can't vote.

I suppose a lot of people who chose the second option would choose a "like most of it" option if it were available.

Mecranth
11th Oct 2008, 15:13
Have fun and enjoy yourself here, though since feel that strongly about the direction where DX3 is going I don't even understand why you hang around.

I do not understand that, either, and that applies to everyone like him, not just him. Voicing one's opinion on something is one thing, but actively starting arguments in every single thread that one enters is nothing except blatant trolling. I fail to see the point.

I can only say one thing to people like that: If you come here to pout, then get the hell out.