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mook333
21st Sep 2008, 17:22
in the first deus-ex there were those versilife mutants the greasles the grays and karikans, does anyone think they will return?

Blade_hunter
21st Sep 2008, 17:53
It's a part of the game, but I'm not certain of this some guys disliked to see mutants in the game.
I don't feel something wrong with mutants, I think it's a part of the variety of the game ...

jordan_a
21st Sep 2008, 17:55
Not too many though. ^^

Absentia
21st Sep 2008, 18:23
I like the idea of mutants, but I don't like the idea of fighting them. Grays should be tamed and contained, as with the other creatures. Greasels were so V*E*R*Y ANNOYING to fight =|

imported_van_HellSing
21st Sep 2008, 18:49
Green Greazy Greazels

Jerion
21st Sep 2008, 19:39
Agreed. The greasels were the Most annoying things I have ever had to fight in any game, ever. Even morso than the Flood in Halo 1. They were awesome to stick on enemies and a karkian vs. greasel battle (yes, it is doable in Area 51 sector 4, altough I'm not really sure how I did it) is a lot of fun to watch, but they were ridiculously annoying.

I think it had someting to do with getting the greasels to swarm the security bot, and then throwing a scramble grenade. :nut:

imported_van_HellSing
21st Sep 2008, 19:47
On the topic of creature fights, my all-time favourite is zombie vs ogre in Quake 1. You simply get the zombie to frow it's flesh at the ogre. For some reason, the ogre will never use his grenade launcher against the zombie, but rather then runs at it with his chainsaw. The zombie always wins in the end, since it can only be killed by gibbing, which the ogre's chainsaw can't do.

AaronJ
21st Sep 2008, 22:15
My absolute favorite part of Deus Ex were the VersaLife levels, and how intricate it was that you could read PILES of data on the place, and its experiments. I hope that returns.

Romeo
22nd Sep 2008, 01:53
I personally enjoyed enemy variety. I hate games where all I do is kill human after human after human. So very dull.

DXeXodus
22nd Sep 2008, 04:05
In Deus Ex all the creatures were there for a reason. I.e. The game made reference to them and explained them adequately. I do not wish to see Far Cry style mutant hoards trying to kill you.

Lo Bruto
22nd Sep 2008, 04:33
My absolute favorite part of Deus Ex were the VersaLife levels, and how intricate it was that you could read PILES of data on the place, and its experiments

And the huge number of Augmentations Canisters that made me wet my pants in joy.

:whistle:

Larington
22nd Sep 2008, 07:28
Greasy Green Greasels
Greasy Green Greasels
Greasy Green Greasels
Greasy Green Greasels
Greasy Green Greasels

Umm, yeah, like with many of the other things, its fine in moderation.

My kities! Now they can go out and play...!

Absentia
22nd Sep 2008, 14:04
Lol mods, don't worry about improving the swear filters, just edit my post!

Nvm, I'm not trying to go all Scadvid on you guys.

Blade_hunter
22nd Sep 2008, 15:40
For me the creatures are anyway a full part of the game, removing them is removing a DX part like many elements, for me they are an integrated part and they form sometimes a miscellaneous clan ...

Nathan2000
22nd Sep 2008, 16:18
My kities! Now they can go out and play...!

What?! I was risking my life for a bunch of cats? :eek: *equips a shotgun*

Jerion
22nd Sep 2008, 16:29
What?! I was risking my life for a bunch of cats? :eek: *equips a shotgun*

*equips cat-shaped security bot* Eat lead, you heartless fool! :rasp:

Nathan2000
22nd Sep 2008, 17:35
*equips cat-shaped security bot* Eat lead, you heartless fool! :rasp:

*stops scratching his back with a shotgun's barrel and throws an EMP grenade at the bot* Thank you, I'm on diet.

Romeo
23rd Sep 2008, 17:28
Terrible. I don't know, if it's a prequel, mutants could be the result of failed nano-technological upgrades (didn't mix into the body well in the initial stages) or a post-quel it could do with pollution, and a high level of mutagens in the air.

Blade_hunter
25th Sep 2008, 00:40
The thing is if we have a prequel the mutants are totally new or we have other ones, perhaps the ancestors pf the karkians and the greasels, for the carkians it can be a Monitor lizard and the greasel it can be a chicken (yeah the gresel lookd a bit like a green chicken :D)

but i don't know what are they state in a prequel ... in a sequel it can be more mysterious second the different endings ...

Romeo
25th Sep 2008, 03:24
FINALLY SOMEONE BROUGHT THAT UP! Yes, greasels did looks like funny colored chickens, which I think was intentional (Greasel pit = Coq Fights).

SemiAnonymous
25th Sep 2008, 03:39
First off, I was royally irked that all the Greasels could do was spit poison. They have claws and teeth, I expect them to use them.

Anyways, one thing I'd like to see that someone brought up is augmented people that were damaged in the process, perhaps appearing in a lab sort of area. In there, these brain damaged people are for all purposes augmented, non-brain eating zombies, who would attempt to attack you with hands, feet, and electrical punches.
Think about it, they could make excellent enemies. Faster, stronger and deadlier, but dumber and less able to adapt. Plus, they could be creepy brutes, damaged by the augmentation process, perfect for exploring that closed off part of the laboratory after you kill off the power.

Anyways, one thing I'm really hoping we see are enemies attacking from hard angles, hiding on pipes and such, and I'm just now realizing that mutants (such as greasels and aug-zombies) would be absolutely perfect for it. Imagine exploring a sewer system, when a pack of greasels ambush you, some jumping down from the pipes above to attack with their deadly claws and teeth, other choosing to remain above to spit their vile poison onto you, and you have moments to react appropriately.
Personally, I'm fine with just the 3 we have, plus aug-zombies. I'm expecting to see some more interesting robots, honestly. I want a water-bot.

gamer0004
25th Sep 2008, 14:18
Anyways, one thing I'd like to see that someone brought up is augmented people that were damaged in the process, perhaps appearing in a lab sort of area. In there, these brain damaged people are for all purposes augmented, non-brain eating zombies, who would attempt to attack you with hands, feet, and electrical punches.
Think about it, they could make excellent enemies. Faster, stronger and deadlier, but dumber and less able to adapt. Plus, they could be creepy brutes, damaged by the augmentation process, perfect for exploring that closed off part of the laboratory after you kill off the power.


OMG. That's about the worst DX idea I've ever heard (and I've heard people saying a sequel to IW would be a good thing :rasp: )

SemiAnonymous
26th Sep 2008, 02:37
OMG. That's about the worst DX idea I've ever heard (and I've heard people saying a sequel to IW would be a good thing :rasp: )

Bah, I like it. Of course, it would need to be seriously restrained to one or two areas, I wouldn't want this game to turn into some silly horror game.

Romeo
26th Sep 2008, 03:38
First off, I was royally irked that all the Greasels could do was spit poison. They have claws and teeth, I expect them to use them.

Anyways, one thing I'd like to see that someone brought up is augmented people that were damaged in the process, perhaps appearing in a lab sort of area. In there, these brain damaged people are for all purposes augmented, non-brain eating zombies, who would attempt to attack you with hands, feet, and electrical punches.
Think about it, they could make excellent enemies. Faster, stronger and deadlier, but dumber and less able to adapt. Plus, they could be creepy brutes, damaged by the augmentation process, perfect for exploring that closed off part of the laboratory after you kill off the power.

Anyways, one thing I'm really hoping we see are enemies attacking from hard angles, hiding on pipes and such, and I'm just now realizing that mutants (such as greasels and aug-zombies) would be absolutely perfect for it. Imagine exploring a sewer system, when a pack of greasels ambush you, some jumping down from the pipes above to attack with their deadly claws and teeth, other choosing to remain above to spit their vile poison onto you, and you have moments to react appropriately.
Personally, I'm fine with just the 3 we have, plus aug-zombies. I'm expecting to see some more interesting robots, honestly. I want a water-bot.
Yes, it's no so much that I want a zombie game, just some form of a simple minded humanoid, for giggles (think of the Husks from Mass Effect. It wasn't a zombie game, but there were essentially zombies in it).

OMG. That's about the worst DX idea I've ever heard (and I've heard people saying a sequel to IW would be a good thing :rasp: )
BANHAMMERED! No, but seriously, play nice. Personally, I think it's actually a plausible idea. And I do want a sequel, so tread carefully, non-mod. ;)

Bah, I like it. Of course, it would need to be seriously restrained to one or two areas, I wouldn't want this game to turn into some silly horror game.
That's just it, once or twice is alright. Examples like Mass Effect, Gears of War and Halo are all examples of games that had zombie-style enemies (Husks from ME, Sentinals from GOW and the Flood from Halo), and yet weren't zombie survival games. It's always a good sign if you can elicit a response from the player, and there's no more direct way than to catch them off gaurd in a dark, cramped area. Besides, the more variety of things to kill, the better.

SemiAnonymous
26th Sep 2008, 03:46
That's just it, once or twice is alright. Examples like Mass Effect, Gears of War and Halo are all examples of games that had zombie-style enemies (Husks from ME, Sentinals from GOW and the Flood from Halo), and yet weren't zombie survival games. It's always a good sign if you can elicit a response from the player, and there's no more direct way than to catch them off gaurd in a dark, cramped area. Besides, the more variety of things to kill, the better.

Thats exactly along the lines of what I was thinking. The exact inspiration, actually, was from the HK versalife building. Tucked off in a corner, theres a locked room, if you grab the key (which wasn't that hard), you can open it up, when much to your surprise, Alien-esque creatures burst out of nowhere and blast you with radiation, doing a surprising amount of damage. Scared the **** out of me, but at the same time, did an excellent job of killing any chance of repetitive gameplay, and added quite a bit of intruigue.

Same basic concept here, but leaning slightly more to the horror bit, while forcing the player to adapt. Since these would naturally be a bit creepy looking, mix in the augmentations, and you would have a very unique enemy, one that can challenge the player in every area except for intelligence and ranged fire. There is no reason for these enemies to be anywhere except for a lab of sorts, having them wandering the sewers would absolutely ruin them, especially since that's Greasel territory.
Personally, I think it would work seamlessly in a larger lab that at some point, all the power goes out, making a nice, creepy section, which could be great for a change in gameplay. If it happens multiple times, that would again ruin it, however, the very nature of the Aug-zombies make them rarer and unique enemies. It could also be a nice chance for some creativity, because in theory, each one would be at least somewhat different.

Romeo
26th Sep 2008, 04:51
Hell, you know, I could even just settle for this scenario:

You're in the Versalife test lab. There a few beds, some covered in bloodstains, and one even still with a mangled body. Looking at the computer equipment, a dull, flat line marking the complete lack of life in the corpse. You start reading through the report logs on the computer:

Profile ID: Dr. Ivan Meitzger.

March 4th 6:00am>> All six subjects given serum 23b (Strength enhancing and tissue rebuilding nanites).
Subject 1: Male, caucasian, 20 years old, good health.
Subject 2: Female, asian, 34 years old, good health.
Subject 3: Female, caucasian, 68 years old, poor health.
Subject 4: Male, african, 31 years old, good health.
Subject 5: Male, caucasion, 42 years old, poor health.
Subject 6: Male, aboriginal, 26 years old, poor health.

March 7th 6:00am>> Subjects are suffering from hair loss, lack of appetite and fever. Perhaps the serum is too hard on certain humans? Dosage will continue as planned.

March 10th 6:03am>> Subject 5 has died. He showed symptoms of aggression and hallcination. Other subjects appear unhealthy, but alive. Experiment 23b is a failure, but tests will continue for scientific purposes.

March 10th 7:30pm>> A full autopsy showed Subject 5's mind had massive fissures, and most of the brain was altogether dead. Subject should not have been able to keep the circulatory system running, let alone move. Perhaps a side effect of the tissue nanites? Body will be burned and discarded at nine this evening.

March 11th 6:01am>> Subjects 1,3 and 4 have also died. Reports from the disposal team said they heard screaming as the body was incinerated, possibly as the nanites exploded. Subjects 2 and 6 are alive, but appear to be braindead. It is expected they will be dead by tomorrow.

March 12th 6:11am>> Subject 2 is dead, but astonishly, subject 6 still clings to his last shred of life. Dosage will be tripled to see effects. Autopsies on 1,3 and 4 showed the same symptoms as 5. Disposal team once again reported hearing things, although I'm starting to think these are moreso due to their over-inebriation than the destruction of the nanites in the body. Moaning and screaming, indeed.

March 13th 6:07am>> Having tripled the dosage of nanites, Subject 6 has regained some cognitive ability, but is definately considered mentally retarded. Aggressive, clumsy and unable to perform basic human tasks such as communication, he appears much like a vegetable. All body, no mind. It should be noted, however, that his strength has truly come to fruition, and he has regained some degree of appetite (meat products, often raw).

March 19th 6:04am>> 6's body is finally succuming to physical ailments involved with malnourishment. Certain regions of the body have began to deteriorate, even deform.

March 21st 6:01am>> Pulse is gone on subject 6. I will continue this report in autopsy.

March 21st 6:59am>> Subject 6 has nearly no brain tissue left, and all that is left is blackened and decayed. COMPUTER; RUN TASK; VOICE RECORDING; ENTER.

March 21st 7:01am>>
"Doc are you seeing this?"
"Yes, the remaining nanites will try and rehabilitate what tissue they can. Note the organs, they're mutilated irrepairibly... Interesting. Following this we will have to forward a message to research and design, the nanites don't seem to repair properly on major organs, such as the heart and brain."
"Uh, doc?"
"What is it now, Jacob?"
"The nanites are all congregrating in the head..."
"It's expected, there's alot of damage there, now please -"
"WHAT THE HELL DOC, THIS THINGS MOVING!"
"It's probably just a nervous response response triggered by the nanites! Oh no, oh dear god, SAVE M"

[ERROR: MESSAGE END, UNKNOWN EXCEPTION 66.6]

Logging out...

The player turns around only to find the corpse from the table standing up a few feet away. On the stomach and head are the unmistakable signs of scalpel incisions, and on the left pectoral, the number 6. Behind it are two lab coats, and a nametag belong to a Dr Meitzger.

DOM DOM DOM...

DXeXodus
26th Sep 2008, 04:57
My goodness! That would be awesome!

Romeo
26th Sep 2008, 05:02
It would! So would be a prescription for the arthritis I contracted writing it! lol

Jerion
26th Sep 2008, 06:46
Dang. That was just as creepy as the scene in Halo 1 when you encounter the Flood for the first time! :)

Romeo
26th Sep 2008, 07:23
Oh, I loved that scene. No one saw that one coming. So good...

gamer0004
26th Sep 2008, 14:00
Look, I like FEAR, but this is a bit too much... Why do people always assume that once someone has brain damage he immediatly turns into a zombie like creature? Most people with brain damage are quite normal, some can't do anything but sit down and some might turn very dumb (perhaps...) but even if someone gets very aggresive it is not likely that YOU encounter it, that it in fact is able to move or see and he would in any case not move slowly or first move a bit and then suddenly stand up or something like that. Absolutely no zombie like characteristics. It's just not plausable.

Romeo
26th Sep 2008, 21:15
My cousin is schezophrenic, and yes, there is times when he actually jsut seems to fade out of reality, and can get really aggressive. Besides, not everything in Deus Ex has a completely plausible explanation anyways, so I wouldn't fret too much over what would amount to one scene, with a minimal impact on plot, and one enemy. It would be such a small part of the game, you'd hardly remember it if you weren't impressed.

SemiAnonymous
27th Sep 2008, 04:04
Everything that Romeo wrote here. Brilliant stuff, by the way

That's not what I was thinking, but that would work a lot better than my own idea. Way, way better than mine, actually, it was a fair bit confusing. It would make for an excellent change of pace, especially if it was put in a super clean versalife lab, where simply nothing is out of place until you reach the autopsy room.

Gamer004: I really see no reason why they wouldn't be aggressive, for all purposes, they would be confused and scared animals with super powers. Take dogs, for example. If a dog is scared, it is far more likely to be aggressive, the only way it would be more aggressive is if it is provoked. Aug-zombies are the same way, scared and confused with extremely limited brain function, all they know is to defend themselves.
Besides, there's no reason that they couldn't have been designed to be aggressive, as a sort of sub-conspiracy. Evil science Organization wanted to create subservient and powerful troops, and the Aug-Zombies are version 1.0, and obviously failed.

Romeo
27th Sep 2008, 05:58
Dude, I literally went looking for my own quote where I said "Everything Romeo wrote down." Then the light bulb flickered on. lol

Yes, supposedly the most basic instinct is to fight, so by losing brain function, one could imply that someone would lean towards violence rather than civilty. And they would be a zombie because the nanites would repair the tissue post-mordem. =P

SemiAnonymous
27th Sep 2008, 06:14
plus, something else I think we both forgot about, animals can get very aggressive when in pain, and I somehow doubt that getting disected, while having nanites run all around your morphing and dying body is anything like getting an expensive massage

Romeo
27th Sep 2008, 06:23
...Unless you got some really hardcore kinky fetishes.

SemiAnonymous
27th Sep 2008, 06:52
...Unless you got some really hardcore kinky fetishes.

and since these are (ex) humans we're dealing with, anythings possible...

Larington
27th Sep 2008, 08:20
Ouch.

That is all.

gamer0004
27th Sep 2008, 08:55
plus, something else I think we both forgot about, animals can get very aggressive when in pain, and I somehow doubt that getting disected, while having nanites run all around your morphing and dying body is anything like getting an expensive massage

The point is that aggresive is something completely diffferent from zombie. A aggresive brain damaged nano-augmented failure... Hmm, well it could possibly happen. But a zombie nano-augmented failure... No. People nor animals would ever behave like that.
Besides that there is the problem of likelines... You already are a nano-augmentated agent, you already find out about the global conspiracy, and then you are the one who encounters, as the first and probably the last man on earth, nano-augmentated brain damaged people?
Besides that, I think that if something would go wrong they would just kill them or tranquilize them... It's not like "oh, these nano-augmentated guys have now severe brain damage, while they are so strong that they could easily kill everything in sight!" "Hmm. Let's go drink some coffee".

SemiAnonymous
27th Sep 2008, 18:34
The point is that aggresive is something completely diffferent from zombie. A aggresive brain damaged nano-augmented failure... Hmm, well it could possibly happen. But a zombie nano-augmented failure... No. People nor animals would ever behave like that.
Besides that there is the problem of likelines... You already are a nano-augmentated agent, you already find out about the global conspiracy, and then you are the one who encounters, as the first and probably the last man on earth, nano-augmentated brain damaged people?
Besides that, I think that if something would go wrong they would just kill them or tranquilize them... It's not like "oh, these nano-augmentated guys have now severe brain damage, while they are so strong that they could easily kill everything in sight!" "Hmm. Let's go drink some coffee".

1: Would you stop complaining if I just changed the name? Because I just pulled Aug-Zombie out of my rear, a new name would work just fine.

2: Experimentation answers everything. Imagine if you were the head scientist in Evil Badguys Super Evil Evil laboratories, inc, and you accidentally created a super powerful but uncontrollable being. I dunno about you, but I'd want to experiment with it and try to find ways to control it, or at least see what it can or cannot do so you can have a baseline for round 2.

gamer0004
27th Sep 2008, 20:10
1: Would you stop complaining if I just changed the name? Because I just pulled Aug-Zombie out of my rear, a new name would work just fine.

2: Experimentation answers everything. Imagine if you were the head scientist in Evil Badguys Super Evil Evil laboratories, inc, and you accidentally created a super powerful but uncontrollable being. I dunno about you, but I'd want to experiment with it and try to find ways to control it, or at least see what it can or cannot do so you can have a baseline for round 2.

1. Well, er, yes :D
2. Yes, but you wouldn't exactly leave it somewhere unprotected, would you?

Romeo
27th Sep 2008, 21:49
Yes, I'm sorry, but if you had so much brain damage that you lost the ability to speak (resorting instead to moans and other such noises), lost your sense of individuality and identity, and your civilty, for lack of a better word, you'd behave like a zombie. Now, couple this with a few strength enhancements, and some repairing nanites (providing the chance to restore organs after death), and you definately start fitting the character of a zombie.

And something you're forgetting, is that there would be security measures while they were alive, but once they're dead, why would you waste security personnel gaurding a dead body? Naturally, you'd assume that a corpse isn't going to attack.

El_Bel
27th Sep 2008, 21:52
I could see AUG-zombies happening. But i prefer them as a sad sight, some brain dead people walking aimlessly through the facility where they store them temporarily...

Romeo
27th Sep 2008, 21:54
Theoretically speaking, the one you'd be fighting would be a sad sight. You'd be able to see the humanity it once had, but it would be unable to speak, unable to understand you. It'd be fighting the things it registered as enemies, having tried to hurt him already. At least, that's my opinion.

El_Bel
27th Sep 2008, 22:02
One other think i was thinking is if you try to help them(right click to ask them whats wrong.. ok thats lame, but something like that) or if you just get to close to them they will attack you. But i cant see them as hunters.

Romeo
27th Sep 2008, 22:03
No, I don't think they should be actively hunting you. In fact, I would actually much prefer them to try and stay away from you, so if you corner it to try and talk to it whatever you want to do, then it will attack. Or, if you attack it first.

El_Bel
27th Sep 2008, 22:24
Exactly!!! This is what i was trying to say!! I am now aching to see it in the game :D

Romeo
27th Sep 2008, 22:30
Don't get your hopes up, I'm sure Eidos is crying they're laughing so hard (or they simply arn't looking at this thread). If I find out what the protagonist looks like I wonder if my friends will help me make a short about it though... That'd be kinda cool.

Blade_hunter
27th Sep 2008, 22:36
Hell, you know, I could even just settle for this scenario:

You're in the Versalife test lab. There a few beds, some covered in bloodstains, and one even still with a mangled body. Looking at the computer equipment, a dull, flat line marking the complete lack of life in the corpse. You start reading through the report logs on the computer:

Profile ID: Dr. Ivan Meitzger.

March 4th 6:00am>> All six subjects given serum 23b (Strength enhancing and tissue rebuilding nanites).
Subject 1: Male, caucasian, 20 years old, good health.
Subject 2: Female, asian, 34 years old, good health.
Subject 3: Female, caucasian, 68 years old, poor health.
Subject 4: Male, african, 31 years old, good health.
Subject 5: Male, caucasion, 42 years old, poor health.
Subject 6: Male, aboriginal, 26 years old, poor health.

March 7th 6:00am>> Subjects are suffering from hair loss, lack of appetite and fever. Perhaps the serum is too hard on certain humans? Dosage will continue as planned.

March 10th 6:03am>> Subject 5 has died. He showed symptoms of aggression and hallcination. Other subjects appear unhealthy, but alive. Experiment 23b is a failure, but tests will continue for scientific purposes.

March 10th 7:30pm>> A full autopsy showed Subject 5's mind had massive fissures, and most of the brain was altogether dead. Subject should not have been able to keep the circulatory system running, let alone move. Perhaps a side effect of the tissue nanites? Body will be burned and discarded at nine this evening.

March 11th 6:01am>> Subjects 1,3 and 4 have also died. Reports from the disposal team said they heard screaming as the body was incinerated, possibly as the nanites exploded. Subjects 2 and 6 are alive, but appear to be braindead. It is expected they will be dead by tomorrow.

March 12th 6:11am>> Subject 2 is dead, but astonishly, subject 6 still clings to his last shred of life. Dosage will be tripled to see effects. Autopsies on 1,3 and 4 showed the same symptoms as 5. Disposal team once again reported hearing things, although I'm starting to think these are moreso due to their over-inebriation than the destruction of the nanites in the body. Moaning and screaming, indeed.

March 13th 6:07am>> Having tripled the dosage of nanites, Subject 6 has regained some cognitive ability, but is definately considered mentally retarded. Aggressive, clumsy and unable to perform basic human tasks such as communication, he appears much like a vegetable. All body, no mind. It should be noted, however, that his strength has truly come to fruition, and he has regained some degree of appetite (meat products, often raw).

March 19th 6:04am>> 6's body is finally succuming to physical ailments involved with malnourishment. Certain regions of the body have began to deteriorate, even deform.

March 21st 6:01am>> Pulse is gone on subject 6. I will continue this report in autopsy.

March 21st 6:59am>> Subject 6 has nearly no brain tissue left, and all that is left is blackened and decayed. COMPUTER; RUN TASK; VOICE RECORDING; ENTER.

March 21st 7:01am>>
"Doc are you seeing this?"
"Yes, the remaining nanites will try and rehabilitate what tissue they can. Note the organs, they're mutilated irrepairibly... Interesting. Following this we will have to forward a message to research and design, the nanites don't seem to repair properly on major organs, such as the heart and brain."
"Uh, doc?"
"What is it now, Jacob?"
"The nanites are all congregrating in the head..."
"It's expected, there's alot of damage there, now please -"
"WHAT THE HELL DOC, THIS THINGS MOVING!"
"It's probably just a nervous response response triggered by the nanites! Oh no, oh dear god, SAVE M"

[ERROR: MESSAGE END, UNKNOWN EXCEPTION 66.6]

Logging out...

The player turns around only to find the corpse from the table standing up a few feet away. On the stomach and head are the unmistakable signs of scalpel incisions, and on the left pectoral, the number 6. Behind it are two lab coats, and a nametag belong to a Dr Meitzger.

DOM DOM DOM...

Hum one thing to say :thumbsup: for me nothing is too much and I prefer to see a game that offers too much things than insufficient :)

Azrepheal
28th Sep 2008, 00:00
No, I don't think they should be actively hunting you.

Well, by and large I prefere a smart enemy, but why not have people who have been augmented specifically to hunt you down and kill you? If we're talking global conspiracy, lots of funds and augmentation, it isn't hard to imagine that if you become a thorn in the side of a group with few morals they might try designing a brainless soldier to hunt you down (or create them for economic purposes - "You want mercs and you want them now! We have hundreds of troops tough enough to take a bullet and stupid enough not to ask why! Low, low prices!")

But yeah, mostly I prefere cold, calculating and mysterious (I <3 Icarus!)

Larington
28th Sep 2008, 00:42
As far as the chances of a zombie aug or whatever you want to describe it as is concerned. Its not impossible that you literally have an independent black project similar to the one in the sewers only without the forced at gunpoint bit which gets out of control because its one man and his assistant situation.
Events could then follow at a demonstrates basic intelligence level such as replicating the observed behaviour of picking up a keycard to open a door - That is, on every door of the facility including the other cells that contain similarly infected failed nanite experiments (Plus the follow on mission where you as the player/agent has to clean up the mess, including the risk that some of the malfunctioning nanites may have transferred themselves to you, and you have clean them out of your body because the entrance to the facility has built in security smart enough to prevent infected organics from leaving the facility, including you if you've been infected).

So you end up with a situation similar to that of the Cradle in Theif 3, things walking around that may or may not attack you which aren't even able to be sure of their own existence (And there are few things more freaky than not being sure if you really exist or not).

For bonus points, you could do an equivalent of the infected humans from System Shock 2 saying "I'm sorry" or "kill me" as their bodies are forced to do things the still functioning parts of the brain don't want. Behaviour such as confused mumbling, statements like "am I real", "what am I?" & "why can't I die"... I really shouldn't be contemplating this stuff before I go to sleep really.

This could all be a mute point though if DX3 is set in a pre-nanite world.

SemiAnonymous
28th Sep 2008, 02:01
No, I don't think they should be actively hunting you. In fact, I would actually much prefer them to try and stay away from you, so if you corner it to try and talk to it whatever you want to do, then it will attack. Or, if you attack it first.

It would be pushing it, but maybe there could be multiple types of Aug-zombies. After all, there are different sorts of people, and since these are still people in the end, just majorly damaged, I see no reason why some couldn't hide in a corner, while others actively hunt you. No reason other than developers being lazy or technological restrictions.
Or, of course, if they aren't even in the game, that could be a major stumbling block.

Romeo
28th Sep 2008, 04:53
Well, by and large I prefere a smart enemy, but why not have people who have been augmented specifically to hunt you down and kill you? If we're talking global conspiracy, lots of funds and augmentation, it isn't hard to imagine that if you become a thorn in the side of a group with few morals they might try designing a brainless soldier to hunt you down (or create them for economic purposes - "You want mercs and you want them now! We have hundreds of troops tough enough to take a bullet and stupid enough not to ask why! Low, low prices!")

But yeah, mostly I prefere cold, calculating and mysterious (I <3 Icarus!)
Because, if you read my mammoth post at the top of page two, the "zombie" wasn't an attempt at a supersoldiar. It was merely testing what the effects of large doses of nanites into an unprepared victim would do. The end result would be nearly mindless, and scared. It wouldn't want to actively seek out confrontations.

As far as the chances of a zombie aug or whatever you want to describe it as is concerned. Its not impossible that you literally have an independent black project similar to the one in the sewers only without the forced at gunpoint bit which gets out of control because its one man and his assistant situation.
Events could then follow at a demonstrates basic intelligence level such as replicating the observed behaviour of picking up a keycard to open a door - That is, on every door of the facility including the other cells that contain similarly infected failed nanite experiments (Plus the follow on mission where you as the player/agent has to clean up the mess, including the risk that some of the malfunctioning nanites may have transferred themselves to you, and you have clean them out of your body because the entrance to the facility has built in security smart enough to prevent infected organics from leaving the facility, including you if you've been infected).

So you end up with a situation similar to that of the Cradle in Theif 3, things walking around that may or may not attack you which aren't even able to be sure of their own existence (And there are few things more freaky than not being sure if you really exist or not).

For bonus points, you could do an equivalent of the infected humans from System Shock 2 saying "I'm sorry" or "kill me" as their bodies are forced to do things the still functioning parts of the brain don't want. Behaviour such as confused mumbling, statements like "am I real", "what am I?" & "why can't I die"... I really shouldn't be contemplating this stuff before I go to sleep really.

This could all be a mute point though if DX3 is set in a pre-nanite world.
I had been considering having the story end with subject 6 asking to be killed, but decided against it, as he's supposed to be borderline feral. He shouldn't have the mental capacity to speak.

It would be pushing it, but maybe there could be multiple types of Aug-zombies. After all, there are different sorts of people, and since these are still people in the end, just majorly damaged, I see no reason why some couldn't hide in a corner, while others actively hunt you. No reason other than developers being lazy or technological restrictions.
Or, of course, if they aren't even in the game, that could be a major stumbling block.
lol! Of course. The only reason I didn't want to have some zombaugs (my new term) attack and others hide, is because I didn't want too many. With only one, there's a very serious moral question presented, all of which could have good intentions:

Do you kill it, putting it out of it's misery and hopefully keeping others from danger?

Do you attempt to talk to it, and risk agitating it, necessitating a confrontation?

Do you ignore it? If it doesn't see you as a threat, there is no reason for anyone to fight. Besides, something might be learned from it later on.

Do you look for a possible cure, and try to stun it to apply it? (The dark side to this one is that he may still come back as a bad person)


All of these ones arn't as simple as black and white, good and evil; There are definate shades of grey involved, which I like when deciding things.

Larington
28th Sep 2008, 08:41
Ahh I see, so the idea is its one of those moral decision, consequences of choice things. Attempts at that sort of thing tend to be pretty well recieved if Biowares efforts are anything to go by so I don't see any reason why it wouldn't work as long as the implementation is right.

gamer0004
28th Sep 2008, 08:44
Yes, I'm sorry, but if you had so much brain damage that you lost the ability to speak (resorting instead to moans and other such noises), lost your sense of individuality and identity, and your civilty, for lack of a better word, you'd behave like a zombie. Now, couple this with a few strength enhancements, and some repairing nanites (providing the chance to restore organs after death), and you definately start fitting the character of a zombie.

And something you're forgetting, is that there would be security measures while they were alive, but once they're dead, why would you waste security personnel gaurding a dead body? Naturally, you'd assume that a corpse isn't going to attack.

Well it depends on what you call a zombie. Someone who has lost most of his consciousness and is merely scared and only tries to attack you when it's cornered (which is indeed what would probably happen) then I wouldn't call it a zombie.

On the other hand, something that is dead remains dead. It's impossible to resurrect the dead (CPR only works on patients who aren't technically dead, in case you're wondering).

As for: "It would be pushing it, but maybe there could be multiple types of Aug-zombies."

How often do you think something like this would go wrong, AND being encountered by the player?


One "zombie" could perhaps not be unrealistic, but several?

imported_van_HellSing
28th Sep 2008, 08:58
On the other hand, something that is dead remains dead. It's impossible to resurrect the dead

You tell that to JC! (And I don't mean the Deus Ex JC)

:rasp:

SemiAnonymous
28th Sep 2008, 16:23
Gamer0004, again, what if (assuming they are actually implemented) these things aren't a mistake, but intentionally created to be a supersoldier, and these are just the first generation, kept alive for studying and experimentation. If Romeos awesome and large post were true, then we would most likely only see one of these, possibly more if evil organization decides to keep these around for studying.

Romeo
28th Sep 2008, 19:53
Well it depends on what you call a zombie. Someone who has lost most of his consciousness and is merely scared and only tries to attack you when it's cornered (which is indeed what would probably happen) then I wouldn't call it a zombie.

On the other hand, something that is dead remains dead. It's impossible to resurrect the dead (CPR only works on patients who aren't technically dead, in case you're wondering).

As for: "It would be pushing it, but maybe there could be multiple types of Aug-zombies."

How often do you think something like this would go wrong, AND being encountered by the player?


One "zombie" could perhaps not be unrealistic, but several?
Well, I suppose that was the point in the ressurection nanites, hm? lol
How often? Well, according to my post, just once. =)

Gamer0004, again, what if (assuming they are actually implemented) these things aren't a mistake, but intentionally created to be a supersoldier, and these are just the first generation, kept alive for studying and experimentation. If Romeos awesome and large post were true, then we would most likely only see one of these, possibly more if evil organization decides to keep these around for studying.
Ok, I'm not sure which way you're leaning, but I do hope you came to realize that experiment 23 was a colossal failure with regards to making effecient super soldiars (almost all died, and the one that did ''survive'' would have been utterly useless as a soldiar, but yes, after it was dismissed as a failure, the experiment did continue to hopefully find a way to make a supersoldiar). =)

Spiffmeister
29th Sep 2008, 14:18
Perhaps new mutants? such as ones that, over the course of the game, evolve into Greys? or something cool :p.

Basically the same as the original, not overdone, not underdone.

Romeo
29th Sep 2008, 20:20
Suppose it could work. I still like my zombaug though. lol

Abram730
7th Oct 2008, 08:14
Theoretically speaking, the one you'd be fighting would be a sad sight. You'd be able to see the humanity it once had, but it would be unable to speak, unable to understand you. It'd be fighting the things it registered as enemies, having tried to hurt him already. At least, that's my opinion.

maybe somebody rapped in a body cast from an allergic reaction to the nanites. With a lower whisper to pull the plug.
(a friends relative with cancer and had bad reaction to a drug and his skin melted off so I thought to add it)

or one walking around mumbles low "I'm human, not an animal" and starts saying "I'm human" over and over getting louder and more angry in tone until attacking. They would look quite messed up. You find a lab report on an empty bed
mentioning counterfeit nanites.

Romeo
8th Oct 2008, 19:51
That would definately be another hard choice to make...

piippo
9th Oct 2008, 01:26
Here is something that I immideately remembered when reading this...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_New_Breed_(The_Outer_Limits)

I highly suggest for people to watch this episode.

"Over millions of years man has become the very paragon of animals but we must take care not to alter what nature has taken so long to forge — or risk being burned by the very fires of creation."

imported_van_HellSing
14th Oct 2008, 17:40
http://img235.imageshack.us/img235/3788/transgenicspi2.jpg

WHAT THE HELL?!

JCD
14th Oct 2008, 18:02
Dang. That was just as creepy as the scene in Halo 1 when you encounter the Flood for the first time! :)
I was expecting this scene to reach a climax where I would encounter sth REALLY creepy...

And what did I see?

Flying/walking ONIONS that attacked me!

[/dissappointed]

Anyway, on topic.

I would LOVE to see some mutants. It's variety we like (we loved it in Half-Life 1) and it's something that many people want to see in a game.

So, YES to mutants. Some pre-Deus Ex 1 ones, like the first experiments on the Greys or the greazels, I would love to see that. It reminds me somehow of Terminator 3, where we see the huge "planes" in John's dreams and then we see the little ones on the Skynet labs (or the TX-1 robots).

It would be really nice to see things like that, the first "versions" of the Deus Ex 1/IW mutants.

As for the "creepy" aspect, well...

I LOVE The Cradle. And Ravenholm and the-place-I-don't-remember in Bioshock. I would really like to see a creepy, scary level in DX3. Maybe you can add some mindless augmented humans (false experiments) wondering around it, like System Shock 2 (what a game). Just one level, to add some suspence in the whole gaming experience ;)

[edit]

Wow, I just saw that thing in the pic! That's...wow. No room for words.

Mecranth
14th Oct 2008, 18:10
Yes, but not too many. I will be damned if I must blast my way through legions of monsters in a game with so much emphasis on realism and politics.

StalinsGhost
14th Oct 2008, 20:55
From a strictly story point of view, research into mutants should really only be in its primordial stages at this point in the DE timeline.

ewanlaing
14th Oct 2008, 23:20
http://img235.imageshack.us/img235/3788/transgenicspi2.jpg

WHAT THE HELL?!

I expect that's supposed to be a poster. Otherwise, wow!

DXeXodus
15th Oct 2008, 04:11
^^ Swimming aug :)

Jerion
15th Oct 2008, 04:37
If that's a swimming aug then those tentacles are insanely long. :eek:

DXeXodus
15th Oct 2008, 05:08
All the better to swim with!

Jerion
15th Oct 2008, 06:05
Yeah....but you'd need a lot of space to swim in for those things.

DXeXodus
15th Oct 2008, 07:39
So there will definitely be massive, open areas and levels. Yay for speculation :D

René
15th Oct 2008, 16:33
That's actually pretty cool. I hadn't noticed that before. Dang!

ewanlaing
15th Oct 2008, 18:48
That's actually pretty cool. I hadn't noticed that before. Dang!

Good indication of strong communication between Eidos Montreal employees there!

Seriously though, that would be an awesome swimming mod. It doesn't really make much sense, but it would be awesome all the same.

Yargo
7th Nov 2008, 02:48
That's actually pretty cool. I hadn't noticed that before. Dang!

Say What?:scratch: Don't you work on DX3?

MrPibbs
7th Nov 2008, 03:34
I hate Greasels. Karkians were ok, but **** Greasels.

spm1138
7th Nov 2008, 03:44
I never find brainless mutants that entertaining in a game where the fun is messing with smart aggressive "human" AI.

I honestly think that stuff is best left to survival horror where the dynamic is different.

As a change of place (like HOLY **** THAT'S A CROC IN THE SEWERS / WHAT JUST SNEEZED ARGH IT'S DARK AND SOMETHING SNEEZED) it's cool but only in small doses.

GmanPro
7th Nov 2008, 06:23
^^
Yes, small doses is the key here.

I always thought that the scariest games were ones that weren't about being scary. For example I always thought that the scary moments in Thief were a whole lot scarier than the entirety of Doom 3. It just gets boring when the same stuff happens over and over again. You open the door and a demon jumps out at you real quick like... sigh, ok I shoot it and it dies. next?

This can be applied to the cover system and third person as well. So long as the entire game isn't like that, then its actually quite cool imo.

Yargo
7th Nov 2008, 19:23
I was thinking less mutants and more Mechanical animals

http://i.neoseeker.com/ca/deusex2_conceptart_4mHAK.jpg

They could be called Mechanimals :lol:
(only joking)

Lady_Of_The_Vine
7th Nov 2008, 21:02
I'd find an intelligent guard dog much more scarier.... hope we see these in DX3. :cool:

GmanPro
7th Nov 2008, 21:07
Intelligent guard dogs?

Why not just have more giant robots! :D

You can never have enough money or giant robots... :whistle:

Yargo
7th Nov 2008, 21:12
Intelligent guard dogs?

Why not just have more giant robots! :D

You can never have enough money or giant robots... :whistle:

Yes in the future there will be robots :)

Abram730
9th Nov 2008, 05:03
Intelligent guard dogs?

Why not just have more giant robots! :D

You can never have enough money or giant robots... :whistle:

speaking about intelligent animals lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8nDJaH-fVE
makes a campfire at 5:30. making cutting tools at 9:30

Jerion
9th Nov 2008, 05:37
Intelligent guard dogs?

Why not just have more giant robots! :D

You can never have enough money or giant robots... :whistle:

What about big robots piloted by intelligent augmented guard dogs? :D

2030
9th Nov 2008, 15:33
IF mutants are added into the game I don't think they'd look anything like greasels, ect..that were around in Deus Ex 1--since those were developed in JC's time--at least not in the developed stage we see them in the original game.

Torley
15th Nov 2008, 18:19
I think "transgenic" is a beautiful word.

Romeo
16th Nov 2008, 07:14
Hybrid animals are a possibility however. Combining the prime point of two creatures, or even creatures and man. Could also create a certain level of conflict (muddying human DNA and all that). =)

Jerion
16th Nov 2008, 18:23
Oh. My. God. I just realized the potential for an augmented/transgenic cactus. Think about it. A cactus that is sensitive to bioelectric electric energy? It's the perfect alarm system for when Mechs come charging into your base! :D

DXeXodus
17th Nov 2008, 04:05
Lol. We even have a member on these boards called AugmentedCactuar. :D

Yargo
17th Nov 2008, 15:08
Lol. We even have a member on these boards called AugmentedCactuar. :D

I was thinking the same thing :D

DXeXodus
18th Nov 2008, 05:05
So, Kieranator, your idea is unfortunately FAIL :rasp:

K^2
18th Nov 2008, 05:15
Cactus obviously doesn't think so. He would have been honored to be portrayed in the game, I'm sure.

Jerion
18th Nov 2008, 05:25
Ugh. Fine. What about Augmented Cats?

imported_van_HellSing
18th Nov 2008, 05:52
Adam seems to be one cool cat, and he's augmented to boot. So there. :cool:

Jerion
18th Nov 2008, 06:01
fair enough. Although I was more referring to seeing an augmented Cougar in the game. ;)

spm1138
18th Nov 2008, 07:55
Augmented (http://content.revolutionhealth.com/contentimages/images-image_popup-w7_implantplacement.jpg) cougar (http://images.askmen.com/galleries/actress/mary-louise-parker/pictures/mary-louise-parker-picture-1.jpg)?

GmanPro
18th Nov 2008, 07:58
Oh wow...

:lol:

Yargo
18th Nov 2008, 14:46
Ugh. Fine. What about Augmented Cats?

Maybe if we built a large wooden badger :rasp:

Romeo
19th Nov 2008, 01:23
Augmented (http://content.revolutionhealth.com/contentimages/images-image_popup-w7_implantplacement.jpg) cougar (http://images.askmen.com/galleries/actress/mary-louise-parker/pictures/mary-louise-parker-picture-1.jpg)?
Oh god, that's beautiful. That's not a real cougar though. A real cougar wears a white Baby-T and blue denim, hangs around in bars and has blatently dyed hair. That's a cougar. She's just hot. lol

AaronJ
19th Nov 2008, 02:55
http://img235.imageshack.us/img235/3788/transgenicspi2.jpg

WHAT THE HELL?!

Just look away. E-mail me and I'll help you establish a mental block.