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-Konf-
2nd Aug 2014, 11:10
Hi Ian,

Yes, match making is unbalanced at the moment and the way it adjusts the teams doesn't quite work out the way you would expect it to. The community has expressed many concerns about it and the developers have stated that it is one of their biggest priorities to push out before the game goes into open beta. So please be patient with it, we all know it can be frustrating at times, but it's a big piece of work and it will get done at some point.

I don't think the game is designed to encourage or protect the leavers, but I completely agree with you that some sort of a penalty system needs to be implemented. To be honest, I believe the developers have some ideas in mind, and it's just a matter of time before we see it in the game. My guess would be that it'll happen at some point closer to open beta, once again.

I completely support the last suggestion you've made. Something like that will improve the game play and encourage team work. The game has in-built voice function, but since not everyone chooses to use it - the additional alternative might be very helpful.

There are some frustrating moments that we all come across with the issues that you mentioned - but that's what we're here for - to comment and provide feedback. After all, the game is still in development and a lot of features and content are yet to come. The developers, in my opinion, have done an amazing job on this game and I compliment them every chance I get.

Enjoy Nosgoth,
Konf

tiimtimm
3rd Aug 2014, 19:45
Square Enix I really do love this game and stream it daily, but please... please for the love of god we need a patch..

Balancing is fine, making a new map even though its still in beta sure whatever but PLEASE we need the match-making system and party system to be fixed first! My complaint EVERY day playing this game is that it's annoying enough to get into a lobby with a friend (let alone 2 friends) but IF we get into a lobby, whether we're on the same side or not, theres a good chance we won't even be on the same team...

Aside from the other bugs I've listed in an earlier thread post this one thing annoys me the most because its obvious and NEEDS to be fixed first... or at the very least let the community know when to expect a new patch or what exactly its going to be about because waiting 8+ days and not hearing anything is infuriating and makes me lose faith which in turn makes me upset because i thoroughly enjoy this game...

DarkShaolin
3rd Aug 2014, 20:19
To NOSGOTH: CREATE A **** TEAM BALANCE. WHAT ARE YOU GUYS THINKING. Bunch of level 10-15 with level 40's. WHAT. Sort this **** out. It's not difficult and I'm sure you make enough money to do it. SORT IT OUT.

Varulven
3rd Aug 2014, 21:19
To NOSGOTH: CREATE A **** TEAM BALANCE. WHAT ARE YOU GUYS THINKING. Bunch of level 10-15 with level 40's. WHAT. Sort this **** out. It's not difficult and I'm sure you make enough money to do it. SORT IT OUT.

Calm down, baby boy.
They won't work faster because you're yelling at them ;)
I know, it kinda sucks and it's frustrating me aswell. But they're working on it.
So keep calm and love the Varulven :D

Sanguise23
4th Aug 2014, 13:47
i dont have any issue playing with a full party, how are you trying to do this? i always invite before i go into a lobby (sometimes one player will be put on other team but if that player leaves and rejoins party host via friends list fixes it everytime) DarkShaolin: as for lv 15 against lv 40s they are prob. a premade team no way around it. (not that not premade team balance is great) regardless this is a major priority for them stated multiple times

Prime_Abstergo
4th Aug 2014, 14:04
Can somebody tell me WHY level numbers aren't hidden? it would solve so many 4*2 situations :(

Miziful
9th Aug 2014, 06:34
I know the developers are working in a new matchmaking system, but instead of just ''balance'' the teams, what about if you include some level priorizations? (or add an option of search ''people with same skill''

for example if a lvl 10 tries to search a lobby, then he will get paired with 8 people around lvl 10-15 instead of just join a random one

why? because its pretty obvious that when you get a low level in a lvl 30-40 match, is not fun for him and for the rest of the team, because he's just dying without learn anything, then he will just leave after die several times or one of your team will leave because the match got ruined for a low lvl guy

or the inverse, when a high level (lets say lvl40) enters in a lvl 10-15 team against a lvl 4-15 team
that guy will just destroy the enemy team alone, is not fun for anybody, the enemy team will get annoyed and his team won't have fun because he will do everything.

so I think that the game should prorize some level ranges (for example making groups of each 5 lvls) or at least give you an option to do it.


I hope my suggestion makes sense and at least can be considered to be added or not.
regards

JadaStevens
10th Aug 2014, 03:19
You guys make Bioware and Dice look like geniuses

Castner
10th Aug 2014, 04:58
That is really constructive. Very ensightful. I'm blown away at the amount of detail and thought put into a single post.

OnlyLogic
10th Aug 2014, 07:24
Jada, this has been mentioned before. Many times. THE GAME IS IN BETA. IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT, **** OFF AND COME BACK IN A WEEK.

dusk2k3
10th Aug 2014, 07:33
Match Making would improve a great deal if you could stop a game from launching once teams become unbalanced. My biggest frustration with the game is the number of times I have to go 3 v 4 in a game because someone drops out once the countdown starts.

OnlyLogic
10th Aug 2014, 10:55
Dusk, that is not a good solution. If a game stops in the countdown, more people are prone to leave in which case you may be hours in matchmaking, just waiting for a lobby to start.

Jtaneli
13th Aug 2014, 04:58
I noticed that this is a huge problem in the game.

You can pretty much choose a winning team every time based on the player levels and it's really hard to find a balanced match. It's not uncommon to find a game where the level difference between teams is over double the amount when combined.

A game like this which in some way requires levels to get upgrades/gear CANNOT pair up people who have over 10 level difference, it just doesn't work.

Made 2 matchmaking tries to get screenshots

Results:

http://i.imgur.com/LOoTzK4.png

http://i.imgur.com/Wb1csxF.png

mosca86
16th Aug 2014, 20:18
So I love the game Nosgoth, I started playing on the free to play weekend. During that time (the free weekend) I found that the games were great! Full games, found them quickly and enjoyed the over all experience.

About a week after the free weekend went on, it was a whole other story. I started noticing that balanced games were extremely hard to find. Not only in team numbers (3v4), but also in skill levels.

I found myself overly frustrated and assuming that all games were unbalanced. So I decided instead of some angry rant in frustration I would start taking tallies of my games.

I divided the tally into 4 sections.

1. Games won, with a difference of 10 points or more.
2. Games won, with a difference of less than 10 points.
3. Games lost, with a difference of more than 10 points.
4. Games lost, with a difference of less than 10 points.

The results were really just intended to disprove my own "this is broken" mentality... but kind of surprised me when they confirmed my frustrations.

The results were the following:
Total games played: 60
Total games tallied: 35
1: Games won +10 point lead: 12
2: Games won 1-10 point lead: 2
3: Games lost +10 point deficit: 15
4: Games lost 1-10 point deficit: 6

These results, please note were of the "even" games. Games that were either 4v4, or had an even AFK and were 3v3.
I took a separate toll on AFK/DC/unfair games. A little more simple this time.

Out of the total of 60 games played, 25 of them were 3v4 or worse.
This seems like a bit of a problem to me. I understand its difficult to program a match making system, but it seems like its desperately needed.

I understand closed beta is still active for a reason, so this isn't meant to be a "crying" post. Simply providing information from my (and some friends) experiences. But good lord, playing a total of 60 games and getting 8 close games ("close" being within a 33% difference in points, which is generous when saying "close"). Personally I feel that a 13% rate to play close games, is far too low.

Personally I enjoy playing games where the game doesn't result in just a farm fest 9/10 games. With results like this, its discouraging to even join up. Games being 20 minutes in total (little longer with round switch), and 13% "good game" rating.... on average it will take you 3 hours to get a single good game (1/10 rounds, 3 rounds an hour).
I see this being a problem on multiple fronts;
-Convincing people to continue playing this game
-Having those people recommend this game to others
-Having the skill level of played diminish due to lack of fair competition.

Hopefully this can help direct some developers to the issue or matchmaking.

Second, but much smaller point was the ability to que with parties. (games in the premade were not tallied)
After a friend bought this game (after the free to play weekend) we decided to try our hands at a 4 man premade. Seemed like a good idea at the time. After about an hour or rotating threw games against my friends, we simply gave up.

The ability to invite people to a party would fail at least 1/3 times.
A/many party members would be dropped after finding a match 1/3 times.
Once in match, at least 1/5 times a member would be kicked from the game/have the game crash.
If you manage to dodge between these many obstacles, then you would more than likely be playing against 1 or more of your party members every other game.

In a total of about 20 attempted matches, we managed to play about 3 as a full 4 man premade. 1 of those 3, also was 4v3.

So to sum all this small essay up, this game is fun! A lot of fun!
But the struggle to play fair games seems to ruin the overall experience for me. I hope beyond all hope that they fix some of these issue, or I fear greatly for the games future.
Some work on balancing teams, filling in games in uneven games, and the party system seem to be the biggest problems I can see in the game.

P.S. just a side note of an in game glitch. Standing near the edge of a building with the tyrant, can loop you into an unstoppable chain of falling/landing on the building.
Only experienced this once, but still it happened for about 4 minutes, until finally being discovered and killed by some humans.

Thanks for the time guys!
Hopefully we see some improvement to these issue.
Keep up the good work though, I have very high hopes for this game!

GLHF to everyone and thanks for reading my post =)

Katazera
17th Aug 2014, 07:32
The match making is really a big issue atm. Feels like 90% unbalanced teams not only by amount of players, also by level/experience. After reching level 10 it is terrible, because there is no limited playerpool anymore. So often there is a team full of level 20-40 players against a team with level 10-20. That should not happen. It should be fairly mixed/balanced by level/experience or even better: strength of builds.

Another big problem are the people that idle for a long time or quit the game very early. So there should be a deserter time/penalty that people join a game only when they actually can and want to play. Especially in this game - where teamplay is very important - 1 player less in team decides a game very early.

Other issues:

a) Mostly the human team just camps at their spawnpoint in Team Deathmatch or at 1 place and don't move away from there for 10 minutes. Somehow this should be prevented because it makes the game very boring.

b) The syncing/downloading armory (why so often anyway?) takes much too long at game start.

c) Some sound effects are extremely loud in game.

zumbledum
17th Aug 2014, 14:02
exactly the same experience as the op except im lazy and stopped collecting data after 4 games ;)

its the last patch and the change to the matchmaking that made the difference , basically those of who joined during the free weekend got to play in the golden age where matchmaking didn't let people que as teams. this new (well old actually) implemented system is also a lot worse even if there are't teams it seems to like putting 3/4 of the best players on one team a lot.

this is tempory at least when the system we started playing under works they will put it back i believe , so the question comes whose getting thrown under the buss? will it keep wasting 8 peoples time putting pre mades vs pugs. or will it cut that out?

SgtSmoke
17th Aug 2014, 18:12
Yeah having the same issue. Either I'm on a team with 4v3, or I'm on the opposite end of the ass whooping when it's 3v4. It has gotten very frustrating when almost every match is uneven. I really hope they fix this soon.

mosca86
17th Aug 2014, 20:34
I agree completely with the in game sound effects. It seems for me I get audio lag (or that's what I'm guessing it is). Especially when using alchemists, I get an echo of explosions that get exponentially louder as they happen. This could be on my end, but i haven't experienced in in any other game.

JelloBoy
17th Aug 2014, 21:03
Your "statistics" show a 100% winrate with any level bonus and a 0% winrate with any level negative.

As the win + loss = 35 and you say the other 25 were excluded from the games counted for not being 4v4. This is bologne or else what are you trying to say; that levels need to be perfectly even or else it is guaranteed win or loss?

Levels do not equal skill, you are baddy noob that can't win without more experienced players carrying you. A matchmaking system based on a "skill" rating is scheduled to come out and that is more important than level balance.

Also pretty sure those numbers are made up as they don't prove ****.

SgtSmoke
17th Aug 2014, 22:09
Going to stop playing until it gets fixed or I'll start to dislike the game.

Da_Wolv
17th Aug 2014, 22:21
Going to stop playing until it gets fixed or I'll start to dislike the game.

I can't be certain about this, but this being a 'closed beta', meaning that there are significantly less players than during the Free Weekend. The matchmaking might not be perfectly calibrated yet, but I rather play against slightly higher level players than me, rather than having to deal with 100+ ping because the only people playing in my braket right now are from eastern Sibiria and southern Peru.

Rayenicole
18th Aug 2014, 01:12
One need only look to Space Marine as an example of how matchmaking can destroy the multiplayer life expectancy of a game, and Space Marine had the benefit of a single player campaign.

Matchmaking ensures that if there is low volume (small playerbase or non-peak hours) that the players are filtered away from one another. Matchmaking is derived of console limitations and is not suitable for PC for many reasons. There's not as high of a volume of players and PC users have the freedom to host and utilize server lists in a non-cumbersome way.

Using Space Marine as an example; aspiring players have been limited to playing deathmatch for the vast majority of its lifespan. This is because of matchmaking. In order to play the game you have to select a filter with which to search through.
Players who want to attempt to play CTF or other map modes (or expansion content) have to further filter their matchmaking attempt.

The result is matchmaking for game types other than deathmatch takes a long and indeterminate amount of time. This often results in players losing confidence in the fact that others want to play their desired match type. They would stop attempting/waiting in futility and quit the game. This makes it seem as if nobody is playing at all.
The average persons attention span is less than 20 seconds, this means that people drop gametypes that aren't high volume and play ones they're less happy with whenever matchmaking is their only venue for play. This obviously kills replay value for those people and they don't stick around for long.

Lets say there are 200 players interested in CTF; they sparingly attempt matchmaking at random individual time intervals just to check and see if they can start a game, it will never happen. There simply wont be enough players attempting a particular type of matchmaking at any given time. Matchmaking requires excessively high volume to put games together. If you have a server list so one of those players could simply host a public CTF then the players aren't hidden from each other, they will be far more likely to actually get a game going and to stick around and play the game more often.

There could be hundreds of players attempting to play Nosgoth at any given time in the future with many different game modes and yet the game could feel as if nobody is playing at all due to matchmaking filtering. This would obviously result in the game seeming dead. Many people would simply not attemp to play because all they seem to do is wait on nobody. There's a lot more to be said about this but I should keep it short..

Hixlysss
18th Aug 2014, 13:44
Yes please. I've had a few friends just say "Nope, going to go do something else, I have better things to do than sit and wait around for five minutes to get a match."

Honestly any game with a matchmaking system is kinda...limiting. Because either it's going to just keep pairing you up with people you just do not want to play with because they are "the best match for you" or, as the OP says, it can just take waaaay to long to get a match going while it tries to find "The best match possible."

OnlyLogic
18th Aug 2014, 14:45
Yes, yes. Been addressed, will happen when it happens.

WarNoob14
25th Aug 2014, 09:01
Hi All,

I appreciate that Nosgoth is in BETA and that now is the time to get things discussed for the future launch. As many have already noted, the matchmaking system leaves a lot to be desired and I'm not sure if it's getting better or worse to be honest.

Since the last update, I find that many games either have trouble recognising the 8th player slot leaving teams unbalanced or that upon loading into a game, one player seems to have dropped through the loading phase. This needs to be sorted promptly as I find many players leave after seeing they are a man down and thus makes the match frankly pointless. In addition to this, the teams are then unbalanced and yes I know that 3 could beat 4; however, this requires clear coordination and team-play that frankly is few and far between via random match making.

It may be an idea to implement a penalty system for such occasions; for example, if one team is up a player then they receive a 5% penalty to HP or DMG or the team with a player down is boosted HP or DMG 5% (even with Vigour Perk).

Without such changes I fear people are going to get tired of the miss match games quickly and this could be damning to the game long term. This would be a shame as I'm sure many players enjoy it as much as I do and clearly there is a strong emphasis on team support and collaboration which at this time, suffers greatly.

...................................

Punishments:

Matchmaking issues aside; it is clear there are those that willingly leave their fellow team mates in the **** by leaving randomly mid game and so thre needs to be serious consideration for a penalty system. In a game that works around XP and Gold gain, there needs to be a way of punishing those that intentionally leave games. This could be managed in a variety of ways and I'm sure as the developers you will have the best view on this but if some suggestions could be made;

1. A quitter will receive a 50% XP reduction from their overall calculation at the end of a game for the next 5 games. Each COMPLETED game will reduce this penalty by 10% so that after the 5 games, their 6th will be without penalty.

2. A quitter will not receive any gold and have a 10% XP reduction for the next 2 completed matches.

3. Implement a like and dislike system for players. This would allow those to vote on a quitter via an in-game mini menu accessed from the leader board in which they can select a thumbs up or a thumbs down. This would only appear if a player were to quit mid game and so would not be abused. As a player accumulates more thumbs down, they earn less player credibility. This too could feed into a profile wide bar, much like an experience bar that can sway back and forth from Good Sportsmanship to Bad Sportsmanship. The way this would show the greatest impact is to have an element to the match making system that gives priority to those with a Good Sportsmanship level over those that don't.

.......................................

Well, that's my input for the moment and I hope it is useful in this development period.

.......................................

As for my fellow players - happy HUNTING!

Hersaint
25th Aug 2014, 18:45
HI developers,

Got alchemist, hunter, tyrant, reaver and deciever to lvl 10. Enjoyed all of them so far, well except for the Tyrant jump attack. Sadly though since the new matchmaking went in I don't find good matches very often. Its too frustrating to play now with 4v1 or 4v2 or 3v1 even. I dont have any good ideas on how to keep even matches or fix them quickly. Right now 10 minutes of waiting to even a match out or just end a match is too long. I think thats why you have so many people just quit. I think?

Thanks again,

I love making the undead dead and living off the living!

SawyerSOF
20th Sep 2014, 02:02
http://i.imgur.com/XuAOHq7s.jpg (http://imgur.com/XuAOHq7)

So as long as the matchmaking is gonna be like this, the game will suck. Notice- Ive searched for a Nove game for players below level 10.

2nd, the game certainly gives an impression of a pay 2 win game, or a game where the person with the most time spent in the game will dominate others.

See the problem with this is that not the REAL skill makes the difference, but the knowledge about the game. If a someone who spends 24/7 with this game knows the best places to group up as humans on every single map to have the best possible defence- it has nothing to do with the skill of a player, its all about "been there, done that". So you've played like 50x on a certain map and know the best positions to defend- you have a big automatic advantage. You can have 20 APM and multitasking level of a turtle, but you still have a high chance to win because you know that place where to group up best on a map and know what weapons are most op, because youve tested every single weapon for at least 50 games.

The multitaksing skill and micro of an indivudial player hardly makes a difference, when you simply face an opponent who has played 10x more games than you and just picks the strongest combinations.

This is without a doubt the biggest reason why this game will never blow up. Games like DOta where players like Dendi have impressive individual Micro- and Macroskills and can win a game for like 60-80% alone are the ones who will still be massively popular.

This game is nothing but "hey, lets stick in that place, as the enemy has hardly any chances to defeat us" or "lets take this combination of weapons and classes". There is hardly any individual skill involed unless you have like 10x more games played than the rest and simply know what combinations are the most OP.

Well whatever, you just had 4 ppl delete this game after a couple of boring, repetitive rounds. This game plays from the get go so freaking repetitive and boring bc everyone simply uses the strongest weapons and classes and perks, that theres hardly any variety. You either go for the strongest **** or you dont have many chances.

And the more classes they add to the game, the more a **** this game will become and harder to balance.

Well, whatever. It seemed like a nice change to the dominating MOBA type of games at first, but at the end the game simply benefits the who spend the most time in the game, and the individual skill hardly makes any difference.

Well at least I give you credit for trying something new, but I'd be surprised if you get even 20% of Dota/LoL active community.

Mayhzon
20th Sep 2014, 06:28
Well, a new matchmaking is on it's way actually. One that matches people based on a rank they get, rather than level. I have to remind myself too about that, because right now the game sometimes is a chore to play. Check back in a month or two or when Open Beta starts. I have a feeling this game won't stay stagnant with the current issues - Or so I hope.

NiamaraWeee
20th Sep 2014, 07:13
From looking at the screenshot... it seems like this was a "New Recruits" match - anyone above level 10 is normally not allowed in those matches, so this should be a bug.

The normal mode still has some matchmaking issues, but you should be able to get into even matches.

RainaAudron
20th Sep 2014, 10:14
2nd, the game certainly gives an impression of a pay 2 win game, or a game where the person with the most time spent in the game will dominate others.

See the problem with this is that not the REAL skill makes the difference, but the knowledge about the game. If a someone who spends 24/7 with this game knows the best places to group up as humans on every single map to have the best possible defence- it has nothing to do with the skill of a player, its all about "been there, done that". So you've played like 50x on a certain map and know the best positions to defend- you have a big automatic advantage. You can have 20 APM and multitasking level of a turtle, but you still have a high chance to win because you know that place where to group up best on a map and know what weapons are most op, because youve tested every single weapon for at least 50 games.

How is this an issue? Naturally, those players who play the game for longer time know more than players who just started. That´s the case for every single game which is not pay to win - those with more skill&knowledge about the game will be doing better. How does time spent in any game equal pay to win at all? That just does not make any sense.

SawyerSOF
20th Sep 2014, 12:24
How is this an issue? Naturally, those players who play the game for longer time know more than players who just started. That´s the case for every single game which is not pay to win - those with more skill&knowledge about the game will be doing better. How does time spent in any game equal pay to win at all? That just does not make any sense.

As you can see I wrote or and I further explained the 2nd part. The pay2win impression comes with the perks and weapons you can buy that are way stronger than the stuff that a player who just uses the free xp points to buy stuff can afford.

Nonetheless, the repetitiveness and monotony in this game is pretty obvious and makes the game boring really quickly. You allways camp in an area as humans. Theres hardly any possibility for sick individual plays, due to how limited and restricted the whole philosophy of the game is.

Its monotonous how you attack the humans too as vampires. Throw this crap at them, charge in and leap or just fly in and grab someone, or just tard-rush as the fat guy... Its all too repetitive and boring and the team that usually has more discipline to camp in one place and wait for the right time to attack or defend, without getting bored and starting a solo maneuver, gets the edge over the opponents. So its basically just wait wait wait and then fight, hoping to outnumber your enemy.

It seems like theres a trend of f2p games and many companies jump on the bandwagon because they think its the next big thing and its the future. Unfortunately only few companies can offer a real fair system of f2p thats not pay2win **** similar to Warface and a ton of other games, one of which is Nosgoth also.

Warface is basically a dead game and can be considered as a fail, Im not quite sure why other companies cant learn from such fails but rather continue with their f2p (aka p2w) nonsense.

I could see this game be more balanced at least if it was a fullprice title game and everyone had access to exactly the same stuff, or at least level dependant like in COD, where you get more weapons as you level up, but having a p2w kind of stuff in the game - this game will fail just like Warface and a ton of other no-name fps shooters that were p2w.

Scolopendre
20th Sep 2014, 17:36
2nd, the game certainly gives an impression of a pay 2 win game, or a game where the person with the most time spent in the game will dominate others.
I laughed.

What pay to win are we talking about? Any item costs between 1350 and 1500 golds. Let's assume this represents 10-15 games, let's say 15. 15=20=300. 300/60=5. Well, farming any item of the game to permanently unlock it takes 5 hours of your time. When beginning the game, you should focus on playing one vampire class and one human class. Let's say you need Light Bomb and Fulbore/Multi for an Alchemist, Infect for a Deceiver, you have to unlock 3 items. This takes 15 hours of your life.

This is nothing. 15 hours on a game to play with same weapons than high level players, this is insanely nothing. And honestly, to learn the game at the very beginning, you really do not need to permanently unlock items, you can easily farm with 7-days perks/skills, which takes nearly no time to get. What fool would ever pay with real money for anything else than skins or other visual effects? Who would really spend money on that game to get items you can unlock in a couple games?

Nosgoth is far far far away from being a P2W. Even LoL takes very very long to farm runes/characters, and it is still not a P2W, because you cannot buy any IG advantage with your real wallet. Everything is farmable. Nosgoth is not P2W, stop raging and let's practice, or just go back on CoD, please.

RainaAudron
20th Sep 2014, 18:28
As you can see I wrote or and I further explained the 2nd part. The pay2win impression comes with the perks and weapons you can buy that are way stronger than the stuff that a player who just uses the free xp points to buy stuff can afford.

That is not true, all remaining weapons/abilitites are alternatives and are not better than the default setups and have their own downsides.


Nonetheless, the repetitiveness and monotony in this game is pretty obvious and makes the game boring really quickly. You allways camp in an area as humans. Theres hardly any possibility for sick individual plays, due to how limited and restricted the whole philosophy of the game is.

Well, whatever. It seemed like a nice change to the dominating MOBA type of games at first, but at the end the game simply benefits the who spend the most time in the game, and the individual skill hardly makes any difference.

Nosgoth is firstly not a MOBA, secondly it is a team based game where all four players need to contribute in order to win over their opponents. Complaining that it requires certain skill to play effectively just does not make any sense, you need skill in many other games, sp or mp alike.

Khalith
27th Sep 2014, 02:55
http://www.nosgoth.com/blog/matchmaking-party-system-progress-update

Just making sure folks are aware of this, it's unfortunate to say the least! But I do appreciate the candor about it.

-Konf-
27th Sep 2014, 07:28
I appreciate the post and support the decision of investing development time into a final build rather than a quick fix (which essentially only delays the production of the things we want), but it also raises some concerns.

I personally would love to see the developers keep us up-to-date with what's being worked on, because I feel like we get more involved that way, but at the same time I feel like notifications on their own won't be able to keep a lot of people interested while some content that they want the most is far from being implemented. Not trying to rush anyone or complain, just expressing my concerns over a portion of the player base going into "hibernation".

I will keep playing because I really enjoy the game, but hope that the announcement won't drive the public away as that will make queues far too long. Other than that I'm excited for what's yet to come, as there will be a lot of heavy-hitting patches with a lot of content coming out between now and winter.

Obisher
27th Sep 2014, 08:42
I didn't expect it will take that long, but if they need more time to do it right, I'm okay with it. It's nice they are starting to interact more with the community again and giving us some insight into what they're doing.

Sequax
27th Sep 2014, 12:42
It's better that it gets done efficiently and properly, rather than constant hotfixes that may or may not just end up breaking again in the long run. I can wait until the winter, I mean, the beta is so that they can detect and fix these problems right? Technically we (as beta testers) are supposed to be the ones who deal with things like this so that Nosgoth will be the best that it can be.


Not trying to rush anyone or complain, just expressing my concerns over a portion of the player base going into "hibernation".

I'm not sure people will go into "hibernation," because the game is still very playable. Just because one can't match up with friends doesn't prohibit him/her from leveling and doing all the things that make Nosgoth fun.

Redthrist
27th Sep 2014, 13:34
Considering how open betas are treated right now(for a lot of people, open beta means that the game is released), it can kill the game. Even now we have people who already cry that this game is **** because of a bad matchmaking and party system. Once the game is in open beta, the amount of these players will drastically increase. And no, it won't be a vocal minority and it will influence the overall image of the game(a competetive, e-sport oriented game with broken MM and party system doesn't sound so good). So perhaps it's better to move open beta farther away before these issues can be sorted out.

Kitski
28th Sep 2014, 07:51
After thirty minutes of trying, been talking with several other people in skype and other means. We are all in different lobbies, which are all sitting at 7 of 8 players and no force in heaven or hell seems to be allowing us to get the 8th player...Leaving and having someone else join the other, leads to the leaving person being in a lobby alone.

Yes, we know the party system is broken, but now even the match making isn't working and no one is able to play. Are you guys doing a fix at the moment that may be causing this or what? Seriously, multiple lobbies, all sitting at 7 of 8 and no one can get the 8th member no matter how long one waits or what any of us try.

Ghewlish
28th Sep 2014, 18:20
They're too busy at EGX trying to hype a broken game. Have to wait until they get back for a fix.

Unhomemade
28th Sep 2014, 19:50
After thirty minutes of trying, been talking with several other people in skype and other means. We are all in different lobbies, which are all sitting at 7 of 8 players and no force in heaven or hell seems to be allowing us to get the 8th player...Leaving and having someone else join the other, leads to the leaving person being in a lobby alone.

Yes, we know the party system is broken, but now even the match making isn't working and no one is able to play. Are you guys doing a fix at the moment that may be causing this or what? Seriously, multiple lobbies, all sitting at 7 of 8 and no one can get the 8th member no matter how long one waits or what any of us try.

as Gwelish said they are at EGX and fixies prob wont come untill the comming week.

lucinvampire
29th Sep 2014, 11:01
Did you happen to note the server name/number? I think this might be a ghosting issue but without the server details it's hard to say where this issue is happening - e.g. if a server needs to be rebooted they wont know what one to reboot etc etc.

FYI it was the SE staff and not those from Psyonix that were at EGX - Psyonix employees were still chained to their desks working hard.

CandyKain
30th Sep 2014, 04:25
There's actually two very specific names stuck in east and west coast servers so the only way to get a regular game is to get in a game after that game has started and is full. Crazy eyes aja and azurile (or something close to that)... now a guy named bread for a few hours as well.

TheDreamcrusher
30th Sep 2014, 20:31
That sucks. I only really play Nosgoth with friends when/if we can party. Matchmaking will be better when there are more players in open beta.

On another note, if we can't expect devs to respond to topics or desires for changes in the Feedback and Suggestions forum, I'm going to stop participating. I got a survey in my email the other day, which I was happy to do, but if there's no discussion here with the devs, my "beta testing" will pretty much be over.

Ghewlish
30th Sep 2014, 22:51
I'm all for them taking as much time as needed to make the MM/Party system as good as they can be. HOWEVER, I really hope this does not deter them from fixing the current game breaking issues that have recently popped up aka: can't invite friends to party, can't spawn in 2nd round, & 4v3 bugged lobbies/ghost members.

I also agree with Dreamcrusher that they should at least contribute a bit more info to their community here on the forums. I'm not much of a solo player on here and would like some sort of info on this inv friend problem so I can know when i'll be able to play again. So tired of playing with Leroy Jenkins ripoffs.

RizeMythos
2nd Oct 2014, 11:30
The one thing I would love to ask of the devs at this point (mainly Cat) is to use Twitter a lot more to keep us up to date. Let us know of every little progression, what future plans are and also some events in the community. I'm sure with the open beta coming in the next three months people are already getting ideas in their heads for things they'd like to organise. It will also create more hype and excitement around updates and give people more faith. I know I'd love to hear more about the e-sports tools and the competitive ranking and new matchmaking :), don't abandon the twitter. I usually only see two tweets a day, sometimes more around con season.

RizeMythos
2nd Oct 2014, 12:24
This is probably the least though out post ever posted on these forums - excuse my rudeness.
Firstly; this game represents no monetary pay-to-win as most of the community complain about the cash price of things and the rest of us are good enough to be able to afford what we want after two or three hours of play. Second; with the whole "The person who plays the most wins", you've pretty much described every online game ever made. It is natural that the person who plays the most has better equipment and more knowledge of the game and more skill than someone who's just started out. This game is not an FPS or not a MOBA, it is an asymmetrical arena brawler, where the objective is for one class to be harder to play than the other. For me, each engagement is different, what the other player does is different and how I combat it is different. If you don't like the game, uninstall it. Simple. Don't come onto the forums with essentially a rant post bashing a game you know nothing about. You seem to be in the mindset that you should be able to take out a team of four by yourself, not the case, this game is all about team work and that's why it WILL be a big game. It requires four people who work well together, callouts and general map knowledge. It's not a game that just anyone can play. You need so many different skills to play it and if you can't manage to balance yourself, this game isn't for you.

--Ram--
2nd Oct 2014, 13:28
10/10 for OP

I do find that I really need to work on my macro, I'm having a hard time keeping up in the latter parts of the game.
Also can anyone give me an idea/benchmark of what kind of apm would be considered competitive while playing Nosgoth?

Jallford
2nd Oct 2014, 15:38
I agree with Raina, of course people who've played longer will know more and, generally, win more. It's the same in DOTA. It's not remotely pay to win as far as I'm concerned.

There are certain positions in maps that are easier to defend but they're by no means unassailable. Teamwork is a critical factor in all matches, you can be in a raised area with lots of vision as humans but if you bunch up a Tyrant/Reaver will kill you in seconds.

Most of the default weapons/abilities are fine, you purchase sidegrades at best. Some perks seem much better than others but, again, none of them alone will win you an encounter.

RoflBalast
2nd Oct 2014, 18:39
http://i.imgur.com/XuAOHq7s.jpg (http://imgur.com/XuAOHq7)
See the problem with this is that not the REAL skill makes the difference, but the knowledge about the game. If a someone who spends 24/7 with this game knows the best places to group up as humans on every single map to have the best possible defence- it has nothing to do with the skill of a player, its all about "been there, done that". So you've played like 50x on a certain map and know the best positions to defend- you have a big automatic advantage. You can have 20 APM and multitasking level of a turtle, but you still have a high chance to win because you know that place where to group up best on a map and know what weapons are most op, because youve tested every single weapon for at least 50 games.

The multitaksing skill and micro of an indivudial player hardly makes a difference,

and so on...


Completely wrong. I easily reckd high lvl players and when I reached lvl 40 I started wrecking them faster.
Nosgoth is not something that requires 24/7 nolife to play good.
You are just bad at games...

Edit: matchmaking, in current state, just puts you into a game against random players.

Max_Dohey
2nd Oct 2014, 18:56
Micro? APM? multitasking? are you sure you are posting on the correct forum Sawyer?

P.S. pretty much any game ever made would see a player with more game/map knowledge and time spent be more likely to triumph, all other things being equal. And to be honest compared with many games Nosgoth is pretty easy to pick up and do well at given a player has solid aim and basic common sense, even with minimal map knowledge

Quaryl_
7th Oct 2014, 17:11
So the problem with 7 players stuck in lobby and 3 vs 4 matches is that the server thinks the missing slot is still filled? Because I have to admit that I thought it could be something simple like that "float" variables are used to keep track of the current and/or max player count. But that is hopefully not the case, as every good developer should know the problems with that data type, especially when used in calculations.

Sophax
27th Oct 2014, 16:49
Hey Devs it would be realy nice if I could play this game :)

Not only would it benefit me but it would help immensly with player retention if you could deliver a stable and functioning matchmaking system. I do like this game and recommended it tons of friends but they drop it like its hot after the nth time of trying to play together and get kicked out of lobbies and what not.

It kills the "want to play this game" after you have to deal with all of this bullcrap. People just want to click a few buttons and start playing. The longer these problems exsist the more players you lose every single day.


I am not exagerating when I'm saying that I've tried to play and join a match like 6 times and I've been kicked out or unable to for a party.

This is pretty lame tbh and you should make work of it if you want this game to survive. Priorities priorities, stable game and fun game and then you can have people giving you money.

Unit107
27th Oct 2014, 17:04
You did notice that this is still a beta and the Devs are working on a fix for this, right?

I don't know if you have ever tried to program or design anything and your product wasn't perfect right away, but this is the case most of the time.
I'm sure the Devs are doing their best to fix any issues this game has.
I'm also sure they are aware that a non stable game can be frustrating.

If the occasional matchmaking problems are such a gamebreaker for you however, why don't you wait for a released game?

Sophax
27th Oct 2014, 19:06
A game that should be in closed beta shouldn't have fundamental problems that inhibit you from playing the game such as the matchmaking. The state of the matchmaking is pre alpha. I hope the devs are doing their best since its pointless to promote your game as competitive and have events while your game doesn't even work. It's sad to see how many people drop this game after another frustrating session of lobby simulator 2014. They don't want to return even if the game is working how it should be.