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sarafan_lord
30th Aug 2008, 23:01
To start off, how does Janos know who Kain is when he is revived in Defiance? Janos did not meet Kain before his heart, HOD, was torn out, because Kain was not 'born' yet? The thing that I am not sure about is the prophesy that Mortaneus put in motion by creating the Vampire Kain.

On another note. It seems to me that the events of Defiance cause the BO2 timeline to occur after the BO1, meaning that SR1 timeline should be 'erased'. So, how can Kain still be aware of Raziel at the end of Defiance? For that matter, the SR1 timeline should disappear when Raziel is defeated Janos who is possessed by Sarafan Lord, ensuring that the Ghoul Raziel never existed. Should not Raziel cease to exist?

Linikratyo
31st Aug 2008, 07:21
To start off, how does Janos know who Kain is when he is revived in Defiance? Janos did not meet Kain before his heart, HOD, was torn out, because Kain was not 'born' yet?

He probably knew Kain from the profecies of the Scion of Balance. :whistle:


The thing that I am not sure about is the prophesy that Mortaneus put in motion by creating the Vampire Kain.

The prophesies of the 2 champions, which he fought were the Scion of Balance (Kain) & the Champion (Raziel), but Raziel was both champions in the mural. Raziel noticed that at the end of Defiance..... :whistle:


On another note. It seems to me that the events of Defiance cause the BO2 timeline to occur after the BO1, meaning that SR1 timeline should be 'erased'. So, how can Kain still be aware of Raziel at the end of Defiance? For that matter, the SR1 timeline should disappear when Raziel is defeated Janos who is possessed by Sarafan Lord, ensuring that the Ghoul Raziel never existed. Should not Raziel cease to exist?

The only change was the events of BO2. After that the Sarafan are slaughtered. The cabal is destroyed and Kain raises his 6 leutenants....... :whistle:

sarafan_lord
31st Aug 2008, 17:13
Lets see if I understand this correctly. I think I kind of had a breakthrough in the last few minutes, as opposed to 3/4 years ago when I played Defiance. The downfall of Nosgoth happened because Kain was not purified and was not able to fulfill his role as a Scion of Balance. That role is to rule Nosgoth, not sacrifice himself to restore the Pillars. Raziel does the right thing by reviving Janos, as opposed to what Kain thinks at the end of SR2, because with Janos' help (brings him to the Vampire Citadel/Spirit Forge), Raziel is able to purify the Reaver (Wraith Blade) and thus purify Kain. When Kain is purified he can maintain Nosgoth's balance as intended by stopping the 'agents of chaos', the Elder and the Hylden.

Am I mostly correct, or are there major flaws?


The only change was the events of BO2. After that the Sarafan are slaughtered. The cabal is destroyed and Kain raises his 6 leutenants.......

But I am still not convinced that about this part. SR1 will/may continue, but it will be different. Because Kain is purified, his lieutenants will be as well. So Nosgoth should 'prosper'. But I still stand behind my point, that Kain should not be able to reflect about Raziel's effect on him at the end of Defiance, because to me it seems that the events of SR2, Defiance and BO2 will cause the Wraith Raziel's to disappear from existence. (his role is played out) Wraith Raziel causes major changes in Nosgoth's history, but in effect also causes his own inexitence. (redeemer and self-destroyer?) Sounds like a contradiction/paradox.
(this last part sounded so much better the first time I wrote it, but I forgot to save and now it sounds so so)



The prophesies of the 2 champions, which he fought were the Scion of Balance (Kain) & the Champion (Raziel), but Raziel was both champions in the mural. Raziel noticed that at the end of Defiance.....

A bit of a side note. So, Kain completed the second part of the prophesy then, by throwing Raziel into the abyss? Was this free will or predestination? I am a bit confused by the following quote in Defiance.

MOEBIUS:
Yes.... Raziel. You sought to introduce your own pawn into this game, and now he's been swept from the board.

Linikratyo
31st Aug 2008, 18:27
Lets see if I understand this correctly. I think I kind of had a breakthrough in the last few minutes, as opposed to 3/4 years ago when I played Defiance. The downfall of Nosgoth happened because Kain was not purified and was not able to fulfill his role as a Scion of Balance. That role is to rule Nosgoth, not sacrifice himself to restore the Pillars. Raziel does the right thing by reviving Janos, as opposed to what Kain thinks at the end of SR2, because with Janos' help (brings him to the Vampire Citadel/Spirit Forge), Raziel is able to purify the Reaver (Wraith Blade) and thus purify Kain. When Kain is purified he can maintain Nosgoth's balance as intended by stopping the 'agents of chaos', the Elder and the Hylden.

I think you get it... ;)


But I am still not convinced that about this part. SR1 will/may continue, but it will be different. Because Kain is purified, his lieutenants will be as well. So Nosgoth should 'prosper'. But I still stand behind my point, that Kain should not be able to reflect about Raziel's effect on him at the end of Defiance, because to me it seems that the events of SR2, Defiance and BO2 will cause the Wraith Raziel's to disappear from existence. (his role is played out) Wraith Raziel causes major changes in Nosgoth's history, but in effect also causes his own inexitence. (redeemer and self-destroyer?) Sounds like a contradiction/paradox.
(this last part sounded so much better the first time I wrote it, but I forgot to save and now it sounds so so)

There had been an official word that the events of SR1 didn't change. "History abhorbs a paradox" :D I think you have to watch the FMV thing at William's chapel for any time-streaming knowledge (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8_EQbFVj8Q&feature=related). History will only make the most smallest changes, so history shouldn't change more than it must. :whistle:


A bit of a side note. So, Kain completed the second part of the prophesy then, by throwing Raziel into the abyss? Was this free will or predestination? I am a bit confused by the following quote in Defiance.

MOEBIUS:
Yes.... Raziel. You sought to introduce your own pawn into this game, and now he's been swept from the board.

Kain knew that Raziel would go out of the Abyss and try to kill him, because he saw this in the Chronoplast. He thought that if he threw Raziel in himself, then he would have more control over the situation. Now he could manipulate Raziel and in this way he had his own pawn. :thumbsup:

Balance_Reaver
1st Sep 2008, 01:21
SR1 will/may continue, but it will be different. Because Kain is purified, his lieutenants will be as well.
No. Elder Kain was purified. Younger Kain is still corrupted, so SR 1 won't change.

sarafan_lord
2nd Sep 2008, 00:00
There had been an official word that the events of SR1 didn't change. "History abhorbs a paradox" I think you have to watch the FMV thing at William's chapel for any time-streaming knowledge. History will only make the most smallest changes, so history shouldn't change more than it must.


No. Elder Kain was purified. Younger Kain is still corrupted, so SR 1 won't change.

So, the elder Kain returns to the SR1 timeline and starts over by raising new vampires, and with them a new empire. For some reason I thought that either the Young Kain was purified.

Linikratyo
2nd Sep 2008, 06:47
I agree that he goes to the SR1 era, but he will then probably try to find a way to restore balance. This is now his most important quest and probably the main subject in LoK 6...... :rolleyes: