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sarafan_lord
30th Aug 2008, 22:40
As far as I understand LOK timeline, the events of Defiance reinsert the BO2 timeline in the middle of BO1 and Soul Reaver timelines. So, why do not the Hylden rebel after the events of BO1 of the original timeline when the Pillars are destroyed? It seems that Sarafan Lord needs Janos's body, because he is a more durable vessel then humans or other vampires. But I thought that the Pillars were the 'lock' that kept the Hylden trapped, and when the Pillars are destroyed, the Hylden should be able to return. Is there something I'm missing?

Linikratyo
31st Aug 2008, 07:23
Well, I think they could possess bodies easier.... They still needed the Hylden Gate to get their bodies.... :D

sarafan_lord
31st Aug 2008, 16:33
OK. So, the Hylden did not necessarily need Janos to start the invasion. They used Janos to power the Mass/Device to make the invasion more successful. But the gate was open when the Pillars were destroyed, so why did not the Hylden come out? Maybe they did not think they could win against the only vampire left, Kain. Seems a bit ridiculous.

Linikratyo
31st Aug 2008, 18:08
you need to have a huge amount of power to get hylden out. They needed an "incoruptable vessel", otherwise the creature would have probably died before they could even get it to the right spot, you saw how fast the bodies died in Defiance....

sarafan_lord
1st Sep 2008, 23:39
Then the significance of destroying the pillars is a bit overplayed. If Raziel does not revive Janos, the Hylden have no chance to escape. Also, if Mortaneus did not hide the HOD inside Kain, would the Hylden try to revive Janos with it? On another note, it does not seem like the Hylden could possess Vampires, because then they would have possessed Kain or other vampires from BO1 to SR1 timeline. But, somehow they were able to possess Janos. Does not really fit well.

Linikratyo
2nd Sep 2008, 06:45
that's because the pillars fall, the strongest hylden could then take over Janos Audron. The vampires banished the hylden with the pillars, but the effect didn't go away after the pillars were destroyed. The vampires couldn't know what would happen if the pillars fell. It seems the land took more damage than the binding, which kept the hylden out. Another power seems to keep out the hylden too....... :eek:

Mortanius had the HOD, so Hash'ak'gik had the HOD..... but they probably didn't know where Janos was.... so they stopped trying...... :D

sarafan_lord
3rd Sep 2008, 22:55
You are probably right. I read some of the Nosgoth history in the manual booklets to make so sense of it.

dumah's wraith
5th Sep 2008, 19:47
that's because the pillars fall, the strongest hylden could then take over Janos Audron. The vampires banished the hylden with the pillars, but the effect didn't go away after the pillars were destroyed. The vampires couldn't know what would happen if the pillars fell. It seems the land took more damage than the binding, which kept the hylden out. Another power seems to keep out the hylden too....... :eek:

Mortanius had the HOD, so Hash'ak'gik had the HOD..... but they probably didn't know where Janos was.... so they stopped trying...... :D

I think Mortanius must have fought off the Hylden Lord's control long enough to hide the heart in Kain, to make sure that his possessor couldn't get it.

The_Hylden
6th Sep 2008, 02:47
Besides what has been stated, some Hylden could cross over as spirits like the Hylden Lord (who did it first) and possess either corpses, or living beings, but both methods were fleeting. In order to re-inhabit Nosgoth with the full Hylden armies/populous, they needed the Hylden Gate opened so that they could enter forth in their own bodies. The weakening of the barrier between dimensions was not enough.

Edit: Let's think of it like this. Say, right now, we found the technology to cross over into other dimensions. We'd need a device and power to it in order to do such, as we cannot simply will it to happen ourselves. Say we achieve this, but then we are stopped in further crossing over when some force places a barrier that our machines cannot penetrate, effectively stopping dimensional cross-over. Now, removing that barrier is the first priority, but if our machines that allowed us dimensional passage are also non-functional, well, the removal of the barrier alone isn't getting us into other dimensions, now is it? That is why simply the fall of the Pillars and their binding of the dimensions is not enough.

This is also why I find it odd that people have a problem with the Hylden not being able to access Nosgoth prior to the new timeline. It's not like passing through dimensions should be easy just because there isn't a barrier to do so...

mort
12th Dec 2008, 20:56
also the fact that janous mentions in BO2 that only a few hylden managed to escape. what if the colapsing of the pillers only opened the lock between the two worlds for a short time? this would then explain the sarafan lords attempt to open up a gate way between the two worlds.

p.s. @ the hylden. ive always thought that they were like vampires in respects to the underworld, having to wait ages in order to adapt to their surroundings. they there if the fact they would have to adapt yet again to be able to transfer into the material realm.

tho the crossing over to the material realm i still think is something they could only do when the pillars were corrupted.

and on top of that, their limits to how they apeared i think are linked to the deaths of the guardians. if you think about it BO1 must be quite close to the time line of raziels defience time line, probably a little bit ahead so when raziel first manages to enter the material realm then nuprapter is already dead.

probably just something completly unrelated but ive never understood why killing the guardians would make everything better. ok on the one hand they are all mad... but wouldnt the new guardians be mad also? if they are all simbiotically bound that the madness would just spread and spread constantly unless some how every single guardian was kill in the exact same second. unless killing the guardians was never about the pillers restoration but about the soulreaver all along.

must stop before i go too far.

Kaizainiel
14th Dec 2008, 07:03
New guardians can't be born untill the pillars are restored and therefore the corruption is gone Raziel healed Kains corruption at the end of Defiance but because the pillars are corrupted to the core I think he will need to rebuild them somehow, If he does find a way to rebuild them he would have to convert the new guardians into vampire because being that there human means they are easy corrupted by there power and other influences.

Mortanius and the Dimension guardian (can't remember her name) broke a small rift that allowed the Hylden lord to posses Mortanius from the power they unearthed under Avenus cathedral.

Why Avernus though? could it be the seat of the Demon dimension like the abyss is the seat of the underworld. or maybe because no one else could see them it was a good place to play around with there powers.

Aranor
14th Dec 2008, 22:42
It is doubtful that Kain by himself will be able to rebuild the pillars. We are also told by Jano that the Soul Reaver is the key to the binding.
Janos:
The Binding must be secured, Raziel. The Pillars are the lock -

Following him, Raziel completes the thought -

Raziel:
- and the Reaver is the key.

Janos:
Yes.

Of course we don't know what that pertains to yet but a hint of something about the pillars workings

RainaAudron
15th Dec 2008, 08:20
It is doubtful that Kain by himself will be able to rebuild the pillars. We are also told by Jano that the Soul Reaver is the key to the binding.
Janos:
The Binding must be secured, Raziel. The Pillars are the lock -

Following him, Raziel completes the thought -

Raziel:
- and the Reaver is the key.

Janos:
Yes.

Of course we don't know what that pertains to yet but a hint of something about the pillars workings

Perhaps Janos ment the Reaver as the only weapon which could destroy the Hylden champion.

Escaton
15th Dec 2008, 14:17
Or perhaps the fact that the Reaver appears to be the only object in Nosgoth capable of "editing" Time (to create a fatal paradox). If not for such a paradox, Kain wouldn't have been alive in Defiance, Blood Omen 2 wouldn't have happened, and the Hylden would have been able to continue their "waiting game".

Aranor
17th Dec 2008, 15:26
Throughout defiance the reaver is also being embued with the same energies as the pillars.

Balance,
Fire and lightning (elements),
Dimension,
Time,
Soul reaver (spirit)

5 of the 9.

Perhaps the reaver itself has the ability to reconstruct the pillars and keep the Hylden away. But in doing so sould need those other 4 embuements.

Graz'zt
13th Mar 2009, 21:33
The Hylden can possess vampires, there are three possessing Turel. Hash 'ak' gik is the name of the Hylden possessing Turel not the Hylden possessing Mortaneous that Hylden is the Hylden Lord aka Saraphan Lord.

And I think Aranor is right originally there were suposed to be emblem fragments for the Death and States Pillars and they were found somewhere in SR1's time. I think the Balance Emblem and the Reaver is needed to restore the Pillars. But in the next one He'll have to learn how possibly from the Hylden Seer or Janos if he escapes the demon realm.

Linikratyo
14th Mar 2009, 09:26
The Hylden can possess vampires, there are three possessing Turel. Hash 'ak' gik is the name of the Hylden possessing Turel not the Hylden possessing Mortaneous that Hylden is the Hylden Lord aka Saraphan Lord.

And I think Aranor is right originally there were suposed to be emblem fragments for the Death and States Pillars and they were found somewhere in SR1's time. I think the Balance Emblem and the Reaver is needed to restore the Pillars. But in the next one He'll have to learn how possibly from the Hylden Seer or Janos if he escapes the demon realm.

Turel was possessed by several hylden and the one they worshipped was the one who possessed Mortanius who was aka Hylden Lord aka Sarafan Lord aka Hash'ak'gik. (Amy Hennig confirmed this)