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Voltaire
26th Aug 2008, 13:29
I don't think that this has been talked about on its own topic yet. I want to bring up two issues:

1) Frisking bodies - The system was kinda annoying on DX1 (I don't know about IW, I haven't played it... yet). When you wanted to pick up an assault rifle from a guard, you first pick up a knife, or his soy food, leaving no room in your inventory for the gun. I propose a system whereby a window comes up and you can pick and choose what to take from a body. Ideas?

2) Pickpocketing. Don't know how it could be implemented but it's the knida option I can see them adding. Anyone?

foxberg
26th Aug 2008, 13:34
The first idea is very helpful. Yes, it was a bit annoying no to be able up front what to pick. The second, I don't think so. I think it's an over complication of the game with a very little return.

jcp28
26th Aug 2008, 15:38
foxberg's right. I don't expect pickpocketing to net you very many items of value.

Well, maybe you could get some lockpicks, credit chits, and some food but that could cheapen the discovery factor of the game slightly if implemented. It shoudl be run through playtestig first.

Absentia
26th Aug 2008, 18:01
Posted on Inventory System (http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=76742) thread:


A simple toggle system would be better still. You can toggle what to automatically pick up and what to automatically leave on the body.

I really liked this idea. You could equp an item, and then tell it not to automatically pick this item up in future. I'm slightly put off by the idea of a window appearing that displays the person's inventory, because I think it kinda takes away slightly from the action. I like the idea that the player should be able to open up a menu (like pressing F1 on DX) but this should be of his own accord. It would be a bit annoying if you right clicked an enemy and suddenly you have mouse control (as in, a cursor) or something. I liked the way it would automatically pick stuff up, but I think this system can be customized.

Perhaps it comes up with a list of icons showing what they have, and then depending on your settings, the items that were taken automatically are greyed out. That way, you can see what you picked up, and you can also see what you didnt pick up, without having to switch into cursor control and close the window down or whatever. Keep the immersion. Don't go overboard on the GUI and menus (aside from the GUI that the player initiates themselves by pressing a button).

gamer0004
26th Aug 2008, 18:05
Pickpocketing should be possible. It's realistic (as long as you can't steal the weapon or any other item the NPC/enemy has equipped) and it's very important for a pure pacifist run. It would be an addition to the skill system as well. And it doesn't have to be complicated... You can have a little minigame and since the player isn't going to pickpcket nearly as much as hacking in Bioshock it shouldn't be annoying.

Voltaire
26th Aug 2008, 18:13
Nice to hear your thoughts on this.

@ Absentia: I see what you mean about the pop-up menu being intrusive, but I also think that, realistically, it would take a few seconds to frisk an unconcious guard for his keycard or whatever.

@ gamer004: I imagined a pickpocketing system similar to the "hack" loading bar on DX1. I also decided that different people would be harder to pickpocket, so this could be implemented into skills system.

E.g.
Level 1 pickpocketing: can take one item slowly from a civilian.
Level 2 pickpocketing: can take several items from a civilian. Speed increase.
Level 3 pickpocketing: can take several items from a civilian or one from trained military personnel. Speed increase.
Etc. etc.

Xcom
26th Aug 2008, 20:35
I don't know about pickpocketing. IMO, it only makes sense if your character is a thief, otherwise it's nowhere near being realistic (skill). Agents don't go around picking pockets and snatching purses.

SemiAnonymous
26th Aug 2008, 21:56
the only form of Pickpocketing I'd want to see is something along the lines of holdups or just plain mugging. I'll be honestly, Pickpocketing just seems like a nice way to get small things that you could just get if you killed the person or could do with out.
Mugging, though, especially with the invisibility aug, could be used to get rarer/small items or take care of guards with out getting that kill count raised, or if your low on ammo. Imagine being able to do an invisible stick up, with just the gun visible, stealing the guards weapons, and be able to move along with out worrying about what will happen when you come back.

TrickyVein
26th Aug 2008, 23:17
What I found to be the most annoying about searching bodies in DX 1 was that the player could not pick up a body if it still had inventory - the agent needed to always drop something in order to clean everything off a downed foe, and then pick up the body. This became a real hindrance when one wanted to hide a body quickly but couldn't due to a full inventory, and then needed to drop something whose sound would then blow your cover, etc.

DX Invisi war solved this problem by having all carried items drop around the character instead. This was good, at least, it solved the problem. I'd like to see something along the lines of what DX 2 did instead of DX1.

Tsumaru
27th Aug 2008, 01:05
The problem with IW was that sometimes it was a pain in the arse to be able to pick up what you wanted. Particularly if you've just slaughtered a whole bunch of guys. You're scrambling around trying to isolate the ammo underneath the corpse and the gun and all the other crap you don't want. I personally am more partial to the window system. Let's face it - games are not so immersive that a few seconds of a window popup and a cursor to loot a body are not going to suddenly jolt you back into your own world so fast you'll get whiplash.

DXeXodus
27th Aug 2008, 04:03
I agree that the whole "picking up hundreds of combat knives" thing is annoying and needs to be addressed somehow.

I mentioned before in another inventory thread a while back theat a pop-up window system should be used. It does not break immersion at all. Just look at games like S.T.A.L.K.E.R. where I believe it is done really well. Or even morrowind (I know its more of an RPG).

Spiffmeister
27th Aug 2008, 06:35
1) Frisking bodies - The system was kinda annoying on DX1 (I don't know about IW, I haven't played it... yet). When you wanted to pick up an assault rifle from a guard, you first pick up a knife, or his soy food, leaving no room in your inventory for the gun. I propose a system whereby a window comes up and you can pick and choose what to take from a body.

Agreed, DX1 system was slightly annoyin, especially when you have a dragons tooth and it wanted to pick up a combat knife. Also, if the corpses inventory comes up as well as yours, you could reorganise your inventory while your at it, to better store your gear.

Perhaps combat knifes could be used as throwing knifes though? Throwing knifes were in short supply in DX1, having a system were you pretty much get one for killing someone would be cool.

Pickpocketing sounds interesting, but kind of dodgy to be honest, lets just stick to stealing off our dead enemys.

drummindog
27th Aug 2008, 11:25
Maybe something that would be cool is to be able to interrogate people rather than pickpocket them. If the player sees a man enter a code and go into a secured area, why not give the player the ability to find out the code via interrogation sort of (but maybe not exactly) like Splinter Cell? Maybe this would make for shorter gameplay in some respects because you wouldn't have to hunt down datacubes. If it did contribute to a shorter game, then I'd take my idea off the table.

DXeXodus
27th Aug 2008, 11:42
Maybe this would make for shorter gameplay in some respects because you wouldn't have to hunt down datacubes

I think some people could still refuse to give you the information that you wanted. Or they could give you the wrong information. Interrogation shouldn't always be a sure fire way of getting information IMO. That way you would still need to find datacubes for information.

drummindog
27th Aug 2008, 12:11
I think some people could still refuse to give you the information that you wanted. Or they could give you the wrong information. Interrogation shouldn't always be a sure fire way of getting information IMO. That way you would still need to find datacubes for information.

Good point. Another thing I thought about is the ability to sneak in behind someone as well. That would be kind of sweet.

foxberg
27th Aug 2008, 12:34
...because you wouldn't have to hunt down datacubes.

I love data cubes

drummindog
27th Aug 2008, 16:30
I love data cubes

Not saying they shouldn't exist. Think of it as another possible way in.

Voltaire
27th Aug 2008, 17:26
I still reckon they could merchandise a line of blue post-it holders in the shape of a metallic datacube frame. Writing your mum's phone messages down was never cooler than this :cool:

DXeXodus
28th Aug 2008, 04:20
I still reckon they could merchandise a line of blue post-it holders in the shape of a metallic datacube frame. Writing your mum's phone messages down was never cooler than this :cool:

I would pay good money for one of those. Or two.

rhalibus
28th Aug 2008, 05:28
On searching bodies: Couldn't you just have a system in which you would sweep the crosshair or center of the screen across a body, revealing things to pick up (keycards, credits, ammo, weapons) in the logical place? Weapons and larger items would be visible outside the person, while credits and keycards would show up transparently under pockets when the crosshair was over them; just right-click to take the item. You could still pick up the body by just clicking on the body when the crosshair wasn't over anything specific.

DX2's design was that everything would fall off the body when it was dispatched, but that might not be logical for hidden smaller items...

DXeXodus
28th Aug 2008, 05:56
On searching bodies: Couldn't you just have a system in which you would sweep the crosshair or center of the screen across a body, revealing things to pick up (keycards, credits, ammo, weapons) in the logical place? Weapons and larger items would be visible outside the person, while credits and keycards would show up transparently under pockets when the crosshair was over them; just right-click to take the item. You could still pick up the body by just clicking on the body when the crosshair wasn't over anything specific.

That is a much more realistic way of doing things, but it may not be feasible in the sense that bodies may lay awkwardly on the ground and it will be difficult to reach some of the objects beneath them. Overall, it's a cool idea though.


DX2's design was that everything would fall off the body when it was dispatched, but that might not be logical for hidden smaller items...

I hated the pinnate (Spelling?) Effect in DX2. It was so clumsy chasing after things once they fall out of the person you just took out.

Tsumaru
28th Aug 2008, 06:07
Rhalibus' idea sounds like it would be very awesome - but I can still see problems in terms of the way enemies fall, particularly if there are a number of them on top of each other. Although since you can pick them up, I guess you could rearrange them as necessary to search through everything. Could become a pain in the arse eventually though; "okay, I've been through his shirt pockets, now I need to flip him over to get to the pockets on the back of his pants and see if there is anything there". You don't want everything TOO realistic.

rhalibus
29th Aug 2008, 09:06
A possible compromise could be that hidden objects would always be found on the side of the body that was facing "up"--maybe not under a specific pocket, but in any part of an imaginary "ring" running around the waist area. At least you would still have to quickly "search" the body...

Voltaire
29th Aug 2008, 15:56
A possible compromise could be that hidden objects would always be found on the side of the body that was facing "up"--maybe not under a specific pocket, but in any part of an imaginary "ring" running around the waist area. At least you would still have to quickly "search" the body...

If you're familiar with the game Republic Commando, you'll be familiar with it's system of "nudging" an enemy over by walking over their stricken corpse whilst looking down. It was quite nifty, and, I thought, the best way bodies react to player interaction in a VG.

Mindmute
29th Aug 2008, 16:37
I think this would be great if it were implemented in a way that ignores where the things are on the body when you pick them up.

Example: you move your crosshair on top of an area and the outline of the item to be picked up is there. Afterwards the game would just ignore if the item were on side facing up or down and simply allow you to pick up by right clicking.

In the original game, where things were wasn't relevant either, and I feel that this way you can keep a good degree of realism without affecting gameplay, as you would still have the feel of searching the body, without the annoyances of the position in which it fell or the hassle of pcicking up unwanted items.


Imagine the thrill when you see a new outline that you just don't recognise and you want to pick up and find a quiet spot to check what it was ;)

iWait
29th Aug 2008, 16:42
Rhalibus I love your idea. IMO it would go great with the Penumbra system referred to in another thread.